Prestige Marques - What Constitues Prestige?

-Chris-

A quick question regarding the perception of a "Prestige" car...

I've put 20 makes above. Some are considered by all to be prestige, some consider themselves prestige but not everyone would agree.

Which do you consider to be prestige? What's your idea of prestige?

VW would consider themselves as more of a premium product than Ford or Nissan, Citroen are angling for some of the German-dominated luxury market, Cadillac are fairly premium in the USA but do they hold the same sway here?

Discuss!


Edit based on some comments below:
I've taken these 20 makes from the SIMI monthly figures. I didn't include the proper prestige marques like Aston, Bently, Bugatti etc. because I don't think anyone could debate those. I'm more interested in how the public perceives a brand versus how the brand perceives itself.

If you ask a Skoda historian, they'll go on about the original Skodas that were really, true luxury cars - competitors to Rolls - but obviously they're not trying to compete on that level now.
VW, on the other hand are trying to punch at a higher weight with the Passat CC (and the Phaeton).
Mazda would consider themselves the luxury Japanese brand.
Can you mention Volvo and Land Rover in the same breath as Merc?
If you go for Alfa Romeo brand training, I'd expect they'll tell you a tale of a marque that competes with BMW on sportiness and prestige.

The variance between a brand's opinion of itself versus the opinion of the public - that's what I'm wondering about...

PaulieC

I'd consider none of these to be 'Prestige'. When I think of prestige, I would think Bentley, Rolls-Royce, maybe Maserati. Most of what is in the list above is ten-a-penny really (not that I have the bob to buy any of them )

siralfalot

VW, BMW, Merc, all common as muck, every chav on the street can have one if he/she wants, how can what is so common be regarded as prestigious??
not one of the cars on that list would be what I would regard as prestigious

Rolls Royce
Bentley
Maybach
Porsche
Ferrari
Maserati
Lamborghini
etc etc.........

now those are prestigious cars :cool:

Aye Kero

Same as. Twenty car manufacturers and no Bentley, Rolls or Bugatti?

peasant

Intersting, really ...As I write (after 10 votes), Mercedes Benz, despite their A-Class, B-Class and involvement in the Smart (never mind their Transporters and trucks) gets 100% planted in the "prestige" group.

Yet VW, despite their Phaeton and their involvement in Bently and the VEYRON (!!) get zilch

superjosh9

In Ireland, I'd put:

BMW, Merc, Audi, Volvo and Saab all in the same category - i.e, prestige (as you put it) - but also offer more depending on the firm, be it sporting pretensions or safety or whatever.

I'd then put:

Lexus and Jag in another category where out and out luxury seems to be the m.o.

I may be tainted having lived in USA for a while though. Another game over there altogether...

Hard to argue VW as a prestige brand with things like the Fox for sale. So I would place VW, Ford, Toyota, Nissan in the same bracket - with Alfa, Honda and Subaru a little above - if only because they are a lot less common over here.

unkel

peasant wrote: »

Yet VW, despite their Phaeton and their involvement in Bently and the VEYRON (!!) get zilch

Not even Audi?

Anyway the poll is about brands, not manufacturers / conglomerates or whatever we should call these behemoths these days

Biro

OK... it's complicated, but I'll try.
Prestige in your context I guess is the marques that are aiming at people who think they're getting a cut above the rest in a luxurious type of way, what ever the level.
Some people above reckon Bently etc are the only Prestige ones, but you might consider them Elitist rather than Prestige. So given that you have "every-day", "sports", "prestigue" and "Elite" then you can pidgeon hole a lot easier. OK, so "sports" might be a bit hard to quantify, and that might be a category that tags along with each of the other three.
In the real world, you can break "every-day" into budget and normal really. And maybe add premium into that bracket too. For example you might have Skoda as the budget "every-day", Seat as the normal "every-day" and VW as the Premium "every-day" brands. Audi definately are aiming at the Prestige end, they directly compete with Mercedes and BMW. In historical automotive terms, you might consider Mercedes as the long-term bench mark for Prestige. BMW are long competing with them, but Merc really started that whole image. Audi are more recent competitors as are Lexus. That puts those 4 brands firmly into the Prestige category in my book. Alfa are a bit more complicated. They have some heritage and tend to give a bit more in terms of styling, both inside and out, for a little more money, similar to Audi. In that respect they are prestige, but on the other hand they don't continue up the rankings to rival the 5 and 7 series (and equivalent) (although the 169 is coming to rival the 5-series type class).
Saab have moved downwards really, they're competing more directly with the Every-day than with the prestigue, and Volvo definately moved down a grade.
"Every-day" brands can have their premium model in order to give more for less over the prestige models, like the Maxima or Camry, but these are kind of bench mark cars, more just to have one for a few sales and to demonstrate upmarket capabilities rather than to seriously challenge the prestige marques.
VW and Honda might be the Premium "every-day" makes, and often can surpass the base models in the Prestige marques, but they remain "Every-day" marques.
Porsche fall just below Elite into Prestige. The Boxter and Cayman help bring them to more people, (not saying that's bad), but Elite brands tend not to do this. Elite brands tend to like people to come looking for them. Also there's a distinct difference in bank account levels between a guy with a 911 in his drive way and a guy with an F430.

omb0wyn5ehpij9

cambo_gueno wrote: »

I'd consider none of these to be 'Prestige'. When I think of prestige, I would think Bentley, Rolls-Royce, maybe Maserati. Most of what is in the list above is ten-a-penny really (not that I have the bob to buy any of them )

Agreed!

biko

I predict BMW getting a high rating simplky because a lot of posters here have beamers. As cambo_gueno above I don't think any of them are very prestigious.
Prestigious cars are cars driven by royalty in my mind - Rolls being the foremost.

-Chris-

OP updated for clarity

MarkN

Very hard to put a blanket on brands, there's just too many models available under one name.

A BMW 335 coupe is not prestige. A 6 series is...possibly.

An Audi A5 is not prestige, an S8 with a Lambo engine is.

Quazzie

Are we forgetting that VW by their very name means its a commons person's car therefore can never be perceived as Prestigious

T-Maxx

Porsche not a prestige car? WTF?:eek:

Quazzie

Whoever voted Honda should be done for trolling. They're only only trying to start an argument

daveharnett

I'd define a pestige car as one which could tempt despite obviously giving less value for money than it's competitors.

Max_Damage

'Mazda' as a prestige marque? No chance! Maybe the failed 'Xedos' brand, but that's it really.

Anyway, the ZIL-41047 for the win:

TomMc

A car hasn't got real prestige unless it is handbuilt by craftsmen with truely bespoke parts. And key mechanical / engineering ones at that, not cosmetic items.

Anything mass produced with generic platforms and parts which is just a posher & tweaked version of a lesser sibling, can at best be a premium product but not prestigious.

When footballers and the like can afford certain cars they lose their kudos. If it is just about money then any well-heeled so and so can buy what they want. Nothing classy about that.

On the other hand a limited production Ferrari for example is something you cannot buy no matter how much money you have if you are not a true fan with the right contacts and buying history to prove it. That makes it prestigious. Or say something like a Bristol for whom you have to kind of prove you are worthy of owning, appreciate the companies engineering philosophy and heritage, before they will go ahead and definitely sell you one. Not merely having the funds to afford one. That is prestigious.

MarkN

Some would argue you're talking about supercars there. Not prestige.

T-Maxx

TomMc wrote: »

A car hasn't got real prestige unless it is handbuilt by craftsmen with truely bespoke parts. And key mechanical / engineering ones at that, not cosmetic items.

Anything mass produced with generic platforms and parts which is just a posher & tweaked version of a lesser sibling, can at best be a premium product but not prestigious.

When footballers and the like can afford certain cars they lose their kudos. If it is just about money then any well-heeled so and so can buy what they want. Nothing classy about that.

On the other hand a limited production Ferrari for example is something you cannot buy no matter how much money you have if you are not a true fan with the right contacts and buying history to prove it. That makes it prestigious. Or say something like a Bristol for whom you have to kind of prove you are worthy of owning, appreciate the companies engineering philosophy and heritage, before they will go ahead and definitely sell you one. Not merely having the funds to afford one. That is prestigious.

You're right - money can't buy everything. But there is no car (in existance) in the world that money can't buy though.

TomMc

But some cars are priceless and their owners cannot be bought.:D

Biro

Quazzie2002 wrote: »

Whoever voted Honda should be done for trolling. They're only only trying to start an argument

Same could be said for voters of Chrysler jeep, land rover, volvo, subaru, saab...

Balfa

superjosh9 wrote: »

Alfa, Honda and Subaru a little above - if only because they are a lot less common over here.

Have you ever been inside a Subaru?
Dacia are less common in Ireland, too. I think you're confusing prestige with rarity.

One of Dictionary.com's definitions is "having or showing success, rank, wealth, etc."
I'm a typical 28 year old, and I was lucky to find a great deal on a second hand 3-series. If I stretched myself, I could probably afford to own a brand new 3-series, but I'd be fairly miserable living on ramen noodles three times a day. Therefore to me, a new 3-series is prestigious, showing wealth above my own.

Just because they're common as muck on the streets of Dublin, it doesn't mean the people who own them aren't wealthy or successful. It's no secret that the average wealth in Ireland has improved seen we were young. Are ye never happy?

Like many things of course, prestige is relative. If you want to set the bar at rolls royce, so be it. But when I was growing up, you'd never even think of Rolls Royce, and when my uncle bought a turbocharged Saab 9000, the whole family was very impressed. That, to me, is prestige. I didn't begrudge my uncle his car, and I wouldn't begrudge anyone in a Lexus or Merc today their status.

BlackWizard

Biro wrote: »

Same could be said for voters of Chrysler jeep, land rover, volvo, subaru, saab...

I'd probably rank Honda more prestigous than the above.

I voted Lexus. Although I'd like to vote for a few.

I would just conisder a car brand prestigous if it offers reliability, comfort, great engines and a decent history of the aforementioned traits. But I bet other people see a prestigous car differently. I'm thinking of BMW and their famous driving experience , which could be an important trait for many people.

Biro

BlackWizard wrote: »

I'd probably rank Honda more prestigous than the above.

I voted Lexus. Although I'd like to vote for a few.

I would just conisder a car brand prestigous if it offers reliability, comfort, great engines and a decent history of the aforementioned traits. But I bet other people see a prestigous car differently. I'm thinking of BMW and their famous driving experience , which could be an important trait for many people.

The option was there to vote more than one.

BlackWizard

Biro wrote: »

The option was there to vote more than one.

Doh!

MarkN

Balfa wrote: »

Have you ever been inside a Subaru?
Dacia are less common in Ireland, too. I think you're confusing prestige with rarity.

One of Dictionary.com's definitions is "having or showing success, rank, wealth, etc."
I'm a typical 28 year old, and I was lucky to find a great deal on a second hand 3-series. If I stretched myself, I could probably afford to own a brand new 3-series, but I'd be fairly miserable living on ramen noodles three times a day. Therefore to me, a new 3-series is prestigious, showing wealth above my own.

Just because they're common as muck on the streets of Dublin, it doesn't mean the people who own them aren't wealthy or successful. It's no secret that the average wealth in Ireland has improved seen we were young. Are ye never happy?

Like many things of course, prestige is relative. If you want to set the bar at rolls royce, so be it. But when I was growing up, you'd never even think of Rolls Royce, and when my uncle bought a turbocharged Saab 9000, the whole family was very impressed. That, to me, is prestige. I didn't begrudge my uncle his car, and I wouldn't begrudge anyone in a Lexus or Merc today their status.

Prestige shouldn't be defined by what you feel is out of your reach at the moment, the words prestige car should mean the same to anyone no matter what money they have.

A Porsche is a prestige car to me all day along, a BMW with every single extra is not.

You could very simply say a car needs to be over €100,000 new in Ireland to be prestige I suppose. Two examples that stick out though are Boxsters which are less than 100k new and an M3 which is more but is more of halfway between prestige and supercar IMO.

superjosh9

Wow, times and perceptions post-boom have obviously changed. Can't believe Saab isn't considered a prestige brand? They have two cars on the market - and both are 'executive' types. Surely that's 10 times better than something like Honda - esp since they have so many budget-mobiles like the Jazz for sale?

I remember back in the 80s/90s a Merc E-Class, BMW 5-Series, Saab 9000 and Volvo 740/60 were just about the top in prestige, in reality. (i.e, when S-Class/Rolls were all still super-rare and out of range).

Poor old Saab.

TomMc

Alfa & Jaguar have heritage but today are a pale shadow of their former selves.

Mercedes & BMW use to be about engineering & technical excellence but in recent times have dumbed down many of their mainstream & new niche vehicles, that their focus is more on market share and profits, than the highest level of engineering prowess throughout the range. They have become the later day Cortina Ghia's & GXL's and the like for people who judge a persons dignity on a balance sheet or see themselves as no more than what they own. Junior status symbols and all that. The goalposts just move due to the increased level of affluence in modern Ireland. But oneupmanship and the herd mentality remains the same. Something which is as common as muck, doesn't have prestige. Although prestige is relative to a persons thinking and values, perceptions and socio-economic background.

Audi are just an alternative to the above for the more aesthetically bemused wallflower who think they are more sophisticated.

Lexus just a BMW/Mercedes clone for those who want something exactly like the above, just less common.

Honda & Subaru have some engineering excellence but know their station - A quality product for thinking people. They are content with that and good luck to them, they would not dilute things or sell out on their core principles either, just to climb the greasy pole. Their marques philosophies actually mean a lot to them, that is the Japanese way.

Saab use to stand for something honourable like Honda & Subaru but they have lost their way. Ditto Volvo.

So that leaves Porsche - slowly heading towards a volume market of sorts but the only marque here with any credibility as a prestige brand. And the only manufacturer whos vehicles will not deteriorate significantly in performance terms once properly looked after. That is how it should be and the sign of a premium product. Probably the only manufacture who makes prestige performance cars for the real world.

RobAMerc

to my mind Audi,Porsche, BMW,Mercedes,Lexus,Jaguar,Saab and Volvo are most definitely still very much seen as prestige brands.

They are still seen as a cut above the like of Ford or VW and Honda - that doesn't mean they are any better though!

All the brands you say have devalued themselves by making cheaper cars ???
Would they still be here if they hadn't gone mass market ?

dingding

Depends on the individual models in the marque.

i.e Audi Q7 prestige, Audi A2 not etc.....

While all rolls would be prestige