5000 fail Maths......

TransititionMan

Poor diluded young sole...
Well he should learn for next year,
If hes here next year... >=]

shoegirl

Folks, you get NOTHING extra for doing well in higher level Maths, even in courses where its supposed to be SOOOO important, no company goes out looking for people with good Maths skills (Irish Permanent used to in the 1980s, I doubt they do now), and there is no perceivable benefit to anybody beyond the few extra bonus points that might possibly exist in a few courses. Until somebody does actually start offering real benefits that last for more than the CAO points process, and significantly later into life, then there will be no incentive for people to push harder. Students, quite realistically, do the lowest level course they can and concentrate on other courses.

Mind you if anybody does want to start offering more for a good Maths result, I did get an A in the higher level course in 1990, that is of course, if you can see past the fact that I have a Music degree which is tantamount in Ireland to having the bubonic plague :eek:

Students are far more foresighted than we give them credit for, and I suspect a large percentage of those who failed Maths will have failed other subjects also - so best to treat as part of a bigger problem of overall poor achievement than simply isolating one subject.

raah!

hee hee, right as i was getting a lift to my results there was a radio show on which the guy said "already 5000 have failed maths". Also saw a wet dog and wondered why kind of ill omen this bared for my leaving cert. But it was also white, with a kind of happy expression on his/her face...didn't know what to make of that.

Yup.

rgt320q

Got an A2 in ordinary level. Quite happy with that.

blue-army

B1 in ordinary level for me.....Happy with that!

andrew

raah! wrote: »

hee hee, right as i was getting a lift to my results there was a radio show on which the guy said "already 5000 have failed maths". Also saw a wet dog and wondered why kind of ill omen this beard for my leaving cert. But it was also white, with a kind of happy expression on his/her face...didn't know what to make of that.

Yup.

Are wet dogs bad omens?

TransititionMan

Apparently, but their effect is negated if it is white and smiling... Possibly.
I think the person who made up these omens was very sad, possibly racist and more than likely had no life whatsoever... Possibly.
:rolleyes:

eoin2nc

yup A in HL. Nice one!!!

4Xcut

shoegirl wrote: »

Folks, you get NOTHING extra for doing well in higher level Maths, even in courses where its supposed to be SOOOO important, no company goes out looking for people with good Maths skills (Irish Permanent used to in the 1980s, I doubt they do now), and there is no perceivable benefit to anybody beyond the few extra bonus points that might possibly exist in a few courses. Until somebody does actually start offering real benefits that last for more than the CAO points process, and significantly later into life, then there will be no incentive for people to push harder. Students, quite realistically, do the lowest level course they can and concentrate on other courses.

Mind you if anybody does want to start offering more for a good Maths result, I did get an A in the higher level course in 1990, that is of course, if you can see past the fact that I have a Music degree which is tantamount in Ireland to having the bubonic plague :eek:

Students are far more foresighted than we give them credit for, and I suspect a large percentage of those who failed Maths will have failed other subjects also - so best to treat as part of a bigger problem of overall poor achievement than simply isolating one subject.

Maths may be irrelavent to someone doing a music degree but it is very relevant in a lot of courses/careers. You can forget about anything in science without a decent level of maths, economics and business courses also require the student to have a reasonable understanding of maths, not to mention that with a maths degree you are extemely employable.

However, if you want to continue your logic, Languages are usless if you don't want to live in a non-english speaking country, histiry is useless if you don't care about it, english is useless if you want to do engineering, etc.

Maths is only useless if you do not need it. Granted that school level maths is very basic and abstract compared to some of the stuff out there but it gives a foundation or 3rd level maths which cna bear heavily on someone's future depending on career choice.

Oh, and I would hire someone with a maths degree before someone with a music degree for pretty much most jobs all other things being equal. There are more applicable skills with maths.

EmmetF

shoegirl wrote: »

Folks, you get NOTHING extra for doing well in higher level Maths, even in courses where its supposed to be SOOOO important, no company goes out looking for people with good Maths skills (Irish Permanent used to in the 1980s, I doubt they do now), and there is no perceivable benefit to anybody beyond the few extra bonus points that might possibly exist in a few courses. Until somebody does actually start offering real benefits that last for more than the CAO points process, and significantly later into life, then there will be no incentive for people to push harder. Students, quite realistically, do the lowest level course they can and concentrate on other courses.

Mind you if anybody does want to start offering more for a good Maths result, I did get an A in the higher level course in 1990, that is of course, if you can see past the fact that I have a Music degree which is tantamount in Ireland to having the bubonic plague :eek:

Students are far more foresighted than we give them credit for, and I suspect a large percentage of those who failed Maths will have failed other subjects also - so best to treat as part of a bigger problem of overall poor achievement than simply isolating one subject.

University of Limerick offer bonus points for HL Maths, my B2 is worth 105 points :P
Suck on those apples.

PrivateEye

I got a C, in OL :rolleyes:

I was never counting Maths. I didbn't study for it, knowing it was subject no.7. Delighted with the results, not failing maths was merely the cherry on the cake!

raah!

andrew wrote: »

Are wet dogs bad omens?

Not for me they're not :pac:.

eyresquare

i got an E in OL maths

i don't know what to do really

i did well enough in everything else

shoegirl

EmmetF wrote: »

University of Limerick offer bonus points for HL Maths, my B2 is worth 105 points :P
Suck on those apples.

Which, if you don't otherwise get the points, will count for what exactly in 6 months time?

What if UL isn't your chosen educational institution?
What, indeed, if you feel college is not for you?

What use then is your HC Maths?
I am just pointing out that having an A in higher level Maths never did an iota for me, not a single thing. 18 years later, no benefit ever accured from it. In an environment such as this, why should it matter? Lots of people fail other subjects, yet not so much fuss.

What I am arguing about is the rarified position of one subject, much of which most people will never use again.

Interestingly enough it was worsened in my day by the fact that the only potentially useful bit (Statistics) was optional (which as most of you will know "teacher chooses").

shoegirl

4Xcut wrote: »

Maths may be irrelavent to someone doing a music degree but it is very relevant in a lot of courses/careers. You can forget about anything in science without a decent level of maths, economics and business courses also require the student to have a reasonable understanding of maths, not to mention that with a maths degree you are extemely employable.

However, if you want to continue your logic, Languages are usless if you don't want to live in a non-english speaking country, histiry is useless if you don't care about it, english is useless if you want to do engineering, etc.

Maths is only useless if you do not need it. Granted that school level maths is very basic and abstract compared to some of the stuff out there but it gives a foundation or 3rd level maths which cna bear heavily on someone's future depending on career choice.

Oh, and I would hire someone with a maths degree before someone with a music degree for pretty much most jobs all other things being equal. There are more applicable skills with maths.

Well actually, the vast majority of degrees don't actually qualify you to do anything. Many of the skills taught in the maths curriculum don't go on to ever be used again.

Nice to see the prejudice against the Music degree is alive and well. Actually there are some very good non-vocational degrees out there, and I have had occasion to have working for me very talented employees with irrelevant or no qualifications, who way outshone people who had supposedly relevant ones.

I wouldn't like to name and shame institutions but some of what is taught in some 3rd level degrees, despite having the right course title, is not worth any more than Ethnomusicology or Shenkerian analysis. I've come across folks with Biology degrees with programming skills and an approach to project work that would put people who actually studied such subjects to shame.

All I am saying is........we don't reward those who do very well in Maths.....and we don't really punish those who do fail, many of whom have otherwise done quite well, as much as the media might lead you to believe.

blue-army

eyresquare wrote: »

i got an E in OL maths

i don't know what to do really

i did well enough in everything else

Appeal your result....whats there to lose?

SRFC90

blue-army wrote: »

Appeal your result....whats there to lose?

Exactly, appeal!

eyresquare

ya i am going to do that,thanks


one more question...could anyone tell me the marks you get for OL subjects
because it does not say on the examinations website and i would like to know to be sure.thanks again

Cateym

Hons maths is a complete waste of time unless you are naturally talented in that way. Every year I see friends and relations slogging away at HL maths to get what a C3/D1 when they DON'T need it for points or entry requirements.

Case in point. My sis in law might miss her course by a handful of points because she insisted on doing HL maths when her time would have been far far better employed putting in the extra time HL maths swallowed up to her other subjects. She would have definitely gotten higher grades in her other subjects and be home and dry right now instead of quite a high probability that she may not get in.

SRFC90

eyresquare wrote: »

ya i am going to do that,thanks


one more question...could anyone tell me the marks you get for OL subjects
because it does not say on the examinations website and i would like to know to be sure.thanks again

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055354514

eyresquare

SRFC90 wrote: »

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055354514

cheers

my friend gave me the wrong info and i undercounted (does that make sense)
50 points lol

lostexpectation

i dont' undestand why they can't see that they have to make honours maths less time consuming

spurious

I would have thought Maths was Music's natural bedfellow - good music is mathematically 'perfect'.

Regarding poor performance at Maths - this is a long-standing issue which really goes back to pre-school play. It is then that structures to understand Maths are set up in the brain.

Realistically, if someone struggles with Ordinary Maths at JC, they will be unlikely to pass OL LC as they will not have the basics of Mathematics.

From what I read, the issue is with people at the 'lower' levels of Maths. The double whammy of a dislike of the subject, due to past failures and schools entering people at inappropriate levels produces high failure rates.

PurpleFistMixer

shoegirl:

We do punish those who fail maths, we punish them very harshly, maths being a requirement for entry to most (all?) university courses.

You say the skills maths gives are never used again. Maths is, aside from its instantly applicable areas (such as statistics as you mentioned), a reasonably abstract exercise for the mind. Studying maths encourages critical and analytical thinking ("how do I approach solving this problem?") which is undeniably an important skill... okay, I'll admit, the LC course doesn't feature an awful lot of problem solving, it being mostly exercises, but the rudiments are there. Another example, and a favourite of mine, being artistically minded, is that geoemetry challenges spatial reasoning. Indeed, graph analysis in general (okay LC maths has few graphs with 3 variables, but once again, the beginnings are there) encourages such thought.

Many maths graduates (or so college open days would have me believe) are taken up by companies not for their specific knowledge of Euler's Identity, etc., but for the analytic, logical and problem-solving skills they have obtained through their study of maths.

bug

andrew wrote: »

Are wet dogs bad omens?

Only if you're Muslim.

Has anyone found stats on the failure rates from last year?

Is 5K.... normal for a core subject or was there complaints about the papers etc? Any changes to the Syllabus or anything?

NY152

Honours maths is a killer, I did the leaving 2 years ago and ther were 4 ppl in my class, 4......out of a year of 120. The fact that 5000 failed is no news to those of us who endured the pain of honours, but to be fair to pass maths, its not as easy as it looks. Dept of Science need to take a look at their curriculum, or at least the standard of teaching.:rolleyes:

TransititionMan

blue-army wrote: »

Appeal your result....whats there to lose?

35 euro to be precise :P

Also i believe maths is a necessity as whatever work you do it will come back to maths at some time or other.
Not saying your manager to be is going to jump out and tell you to solve a particularly tricky maths problem while your in the middle of open heart surgery just saying its nice to have and it will help you dramaticly in the future.

cocoa

did anyone see the heraldam article? Apparently, and ironically, they botched their own calculations, adding the percentage of failures for higher, ordinary and foundation level to give an overall failure percentage of 20%. Kind of appropriate really...

Oh and I forget who mentioned it but there is no bell curve. shush.

4Xcut

lostexpectation wrote: »

i dont' undestand why they can't see that they have to make honours maths less time consuming

Why does the idea of improving the standard of teaching not improve. I've seen people struggle with leaving cert maths and physics because things that should have been sorted in 1st year are still not being done right. I'm talking about re-arranging formulae and what not.

Anyone who does physics at higher level for LC knows that there is not a lot of complicated maths, it should be very do-able. However, there is terrible maths teaching. A lot of this I think has to do with poor wording and mathematical grammer when it is being thought, eg. you add/subtract the variable from both sides of the equation, not move it over and it magically changes sign. This may seem trivial but it is only an example where what's actually being done is not explained so the student doesn't grasp it properly.

Maths is thought terrible in this country and something really must be done, making it easier is not an option. If you people started failing driving tests more, an effort would be made to improve teaching, not de-value the test(I hope).

Shoegirl - the reason maths draws so much attention for bad results is because of two things. Firstly, the sheer numbers failing and such low numbers attempting the higher level paper. And secondly the fact that it permeates into so many other subjects, especially as you get to college. I know people in so many different courses who have to do maths. Bad leaving cert maths made this harder for them.

Mark200

I got a B3 in higher level

I got a D3 in my mocks, and I need a HC3 for my course so literally like half of my study time was on just maths, because I really wanted to makesure I got that C3. I'm so happy it paid off