Buying car - on a Learner Permit

albertonman

I passed my provisional license february 2008, I already had 10 hours of driving lessons and was thinking of buying a car.

Would it be worth getting a car on a provisional with the new law.

I am just afraid I would be stopped and get the fine, are there anyone who got fined for driving on their provisional license alone, I havent really heard of stories about people who got done for it.

Just need some advice as I am eager to buy a car.

Thanks in advance for any replies

wil

albertonman wrote: »

I passed my provisional license february 2008, I already had 10 hours of driving lessons and was thinking of buying a car.

Would it be worth getting a car on a provisional with the new law.

I am just afraid I would be stopped and get the fine, are there anyone who got fined for driving on their provisional license alone, I havent really heard of stories about people who got done for it.

Just need some advice as I am eager to buy a car.

Thanks in advance for any replies

I presume you mean you passed your theory test which allows you to get a driving permit.

Personally I would suggest putting as much effort in to passing your test first before buying a car.
You will save money in the long run and wont have to worry about being accompanied when you do get a car. Your insurance will be lower.

While learning in a instructors car, he is paying for insurance, tax, petrol, wear and tear, tyres, car depreciation, NCT, parts, cleaning, parking, security, bumps and scrapes.

Get your car before you can really drive it and you are paying for all that as well as lessons, but without really being able to appreciate it, as well as running the risk of fines.
Get your car after passing and you know exactly how much you have to spend on it without thinking do I need to allocate money for more lessons in order to pass.

omb0wyn5ehpij9

wil wrote: »

I presume you mean you passed your theory test which allows you to get a driving permit.

Personally I would suggest putting as much effort in to passing your test first before buying a car.
You will save money in the long run and wont have to worry about being accompanied when you do get a car. Your insurance will be lower.

While learning in a instructors car, he is paying for insurance, tax, petrol, wear and tear, tyres, car depreciation, NCT, parts, cleaning, parking, security, bumps and scrapes.

Get your car before you can really drive it and you are paying for all that as well as lessons, but without really being able to appreciate it, as well as running the risk of fines.
Get your car after passing and you know exactly how much you have to spend on it without thinking do I need to allocate money for more lessons in order to pass.

Good post. Fully agree with you!

sunnyside

In theory I agree but in practice most instructors tell students that you need to practice in between lessons. Lots of people don't have access to or insurance on other peoples cars.

In practice most learners continue to drive unaccompanied.


If I was the OP I would buy the car anyway (as I did myself recently). Yes it's expensive paying for the car and still paying for lessons but it has to be done for now.

Cabaal

sunnyside wrote: »

In practice most learners continue to drive unaccompanied.

If I was the OP I would buy the car anyway (as I did myself recently). Yes it's expensive paying for the car and still paying for lessons but it has to be done for now.

Its also illegal however and if the OP thinks he could cover a 1000e fine if he's doing this and any problems he might have with his insurance company should he have as crash then grand but I wouldn't recommend it.

Instead find a friend, family member etc who is willing to insure you on their car...of course pay them etc and then from time to time go and practice.

Buying a car and driving around on your own is not recommended

DaveyGem

Cabaal wrote: »

(...) any problems he might have with his insurance company should he have as crash then grand but I wouldn't recommend it.

Insurance companies will still insure provisional licenced/learner permitted drivers, with or without a fully licenced driver being in the car with them. If they paid the premium they're insured. Even if they have a crash on the motorway....while drunk they ll still be covered.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Wishbone Ash

DaveyGem wrote: »

Insurance companies will still insure provisional licenced/learner permitted drivers, with or without a fully licenced driver being in the car with them. If they paid the premium they're insured. Even if they have a crash on the motorway....while drunk they ll still be covered.

Insurance companies are legally obliged to provide cover on a 3rd party basis (i.e. to cover any damages you cause to someone else) even if the customer is breaking the law. However, AFAIK they could possibly pursue those drivers to recoup their costs if they wished.

Supposing an unaccompanied learner caused €1,000,000 of damage (i.e. personal injury settlement). I somehow doubt that the insurance company would take it lying down!

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

DaveyGem

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

Insurance companies are legally obliged to provide cover on a 3rd party basis (i.e. to cover any damages you cause to someone else) even if the customer is breaking the law. However, AFAIK they could possibly pursue those drivers to recoup their costs if they wished.

Supposing an unaccompanied learner caused €1,000,000 of damage (i.e. personal injury settlement). I somehow doubt that the insurance company would take it lying down!

Very true, the highlighted is written into most motor policies if not all of them.

Im not entirely sure of the procedure in terms of retrieval/recouping. It usually happens if the customer was doing something very very reckless, now im not entirely sure if driving unaccompanied falls under that, but then one isnt going to claim on the basis that they were unaccompanied, they would ve had to have an accident (etc.) first.

ssmith6287

Im in the same situation as the guy that posted this. Ive had 30 hours of lessons and Im honestlyu getting bored of them. Ye cant get much done in an hour slot. I have had 8 mock runs around drogheda and 1 on a dundalk route. the most i got was 3 blues. this 6 month wait is annoying. Most people wont drive until theyre ready but I feel im ready, My driving Instructor feels I'm ready and worst of all my friends dad who is a tester says im ready, but I have to wait till october before i can do a test. Thinking of buying a car, and taking the risk. with this weather and the annoyance of seeing mainly foreign lunatics driving round using their bs tax nd insurance forms from poland, it just seems worth it. My mam has offered to get me insured on her car, but I dont know. If I was to be caught driving her car unacompanied, would she be penalised aswell? Gards and insurance companies are bloody useless, they wont give me a straight answer

DaveyGem

ssmith6287 wrote: »

Im in the same situation as the guy that posted this. Ive had 30 hours of lessons and Im honestlyu getting bored of them. Ye cant get much done in an hour slot. I have had 8 mock runs around drogheda and 1 on a dundalk route. the most i got was 3 blues. this 6 month wait is annoying. Most people wont drive until theyre ready but I feel im ready, My driving Instructor feels I'm ready and worst of all my friends dad who is a tester says im ready, but I have to wait till october before i can do a test. Thinking of buying a car, and taking the risk. with this weather and the annoyance of seeing mainly foreign lunatics driving round using their bs tax nd insurance forms from poland, it just seems worth it. My mam has offered to get me insured on her car, but I dont know. If I was to be caught driving her car unacompanied, would she be penalised aswell? Gards and insurance companies are bloody useless, they wont give me a straight answer

I think that was addresses above by donegalfella. I understand though it is quite ambigious, on one hand it is illegal but on the other the IIF have confirmed that if unaccompanied your are still insured.

ssmith6287

thats the problem, Iff they dont want Learner drivers on the road, then dont insure them. Its stupid saying you can insure, tax and nct a car. but if yer caught driving it yer in trouble. It should be all or nothing. Dump this 6 month rule. Theres 1 or 2 people on this that annoy me by always trying to be PC, like the sun shines outta their holes, theyll say yer a learner bla bla bla. Im saying when they were a learner they could apply for their test, if a cancelation came up within a week they could do it. There are alot of ISM registered testers out there, surely they should have it that if they feel you are compitent enough, then they could give you like a kind of licence that is treated the way the old 2nd prov was treated. I feel Im not learning anything now in my lessons because all the lessons are really doing is getting u ready for yer test, I know i can pass the bloody thing so why not let us try. It is unbelievably frustrating. nearly thinking of going over to my uncle for a few weeks (england) doing the test and coming home

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

ssmith6287

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Look at the RSA website, Drogheda (largest population for a town in Ireland) isnt listed as a test centre yet theres 1 there. they are making a balls of things. they say theres huge waiting lists. the drogheda test on average takes 40 mins, theres 4 testers. they do 3 tests each a day :mad::mad:

Alanstrainor

ssmith6287 wrote: »

Look at the RSA website, Drogheda (largest population for a town in Ireland) isnt listed as a test centre yet theres 1 there. they are making a balls of things. they say theres huge waiting lists. the drogheda test on average takes 40 mins, theres 4 testers. they do 3 tests each a day :mad::mad:

This is because the test centre in drogheda is an SGS test centre. RSA statistcs only cover RSA test centres. I believe the pass rate in drogheda is 58%.

Wishbone Ash

ssmith6287 wrote: »

this 6 month wait is annoying

You would have known about the 6 month rule when applying for your Learner Permit. If you are such a quick learner and are now bored why didn't you wait until nearer October before commencing?

ssmith6287 wrote:

foreign lunatics driving round using their bs tax nd insurance forms from poland,

What have Polish drivers got to do with your situation? (A vehicle registered outside the state has no obligation to pay motor tax here).

ssmith6287 wrote:

If I was to be caught driving her car unacompanied, would she be penalised aswell?

No.

ssmith6287 wrote:

Gards and insurance companies are bloody useless, they wont give me a straight answer

...to what questions?

ssmith6287 wrote: »

Its stupid saying you can insure, tax and nct a car. but if yer caught driving it yer in trouble

Not if you comply with the regulations.

ssmith6287 wrote:

Theres 1 or 2 people on this that annoy me by always trying to be PC, like the sun shines outta their holes, theyll say yer a learner bla bla bla.

Please feel free to go elsewhere and mind your language here please. This isn't After hours! You have been warned.

ssmith wrote:

Im saying when they were a learner they could apply for their test, if a cancelation came up within a week they could do it.

It's a pointless argument. One could also whinge about the pre '64 motorists or the 1979 amnesty people or indeed those who got the BE and C1 automatically etc. but where would that get us?

You also seem to be unaware that the waiting times were much longer years ago - sometimes up to 2 years. That's four times your wait.

ssmith wrote:

I know i can pass the bloody thing

So did many of those posting in the 'Unsuccessful' thread.

ssmith6287 wrote: »

Look at the RSA website, Drogheda (largest population for a town in Ireland) isnt listed as a test centre yet theres 1 there. they are making a balls of things. they say theres huge waiting lists. the drogheda test on average takes 40 mins, theres 4 testers. they do 3 tests each a day :mad::mad:

Drogheda is a SGS centre, not an RSA centre. The reason examiners test so little is because so many learners cancel their tests - hardly the examiners fault!

jhegarty

ssmith6287 wrote: »

thats the problem, Iff they dont want Learner drivers on the road, then dont insure them. Its stupid saying you can insure, tax and nct a car.

Would it be better if their insurance was invalid , they hit you and the insurance company washes their hands of it....


having drivers insured can only ever be a good thing...especially the ones doing other illegal things....

spinandscribble

I think the 6 month wait is awful. I've been practicing a lot and feel quite comfortable driving and my instructor is confident in my ability to drive, plus I'm also learning on an automatic (long story) so thats why i've been quick learning. I've a contract to move over to the states to work thats on hold until I get my license. They're being very patient but i'll have to wait until the first few days of december. I respect the idea behind it but its very annoying.

wil

Am I the only person thinking ye are being a little harsh on Mr Smith.
He has already taken 30 hours of professional lessons, way above the norm for any Irish learner and in my books that is to be commended and encouraged.
It shows more than just a willingness to learn properly but also a good attitude and quite unlike most I see posting here.
The fact that he is expressing some frustration at the system as it now stands is not totally unjustified.

Notwithstanding the various points WA made, I am inclined to agree with SS regarding the 6 month rule, not that it will any difference to the law.

I dont think it is good law, and I think in many cases it is counterproductive. I can understand the logic behind it but I think it is slightly flawed and misinformed.

It effectively discriminates against people who put considerable effort in to learning quickly and actively try to get their licence in a short space of time perhaps on the basis of a particular job offer etc.
I would have preferred they did like in the UK with a learner record where you show evidence of your lessons and your ability in each activity before doing your test.

As it is now it does encourage people to break the law rather than encourage them to get to test standard quicker if they need their licence sooner.

My own feeling is that the real reason for the 6 month rule has less to do with road safety and more to do providing a buffer for already stretched testing facilities.

ssmith6287

Cheers man, Im after signing up for another 10 hours of lessons. thats 1200€ Im after spending on lessons in 3 months. €200 less then what Im been quoted for insurance for a year. Its a joke. No other country in the world has to put up with this crap. Oh sorry did I swear again I wouldn't mind, I applied for the test a month ago and still got no reply either.

As for ash..
Ya have to apply through the RSA to do a test whether it be in a private one or a government one, and your wrong with saying they only do 4 tests a day because of cancellations. Like I said my friends Dad is a tester, Policy is they take on 4 tests and and 1 from the day after who they tell if someone cancels last min to be ready to do the test. He even tells me that he could prob get 6 tests done a day, thats 50% more then what theyre doing at the moment, In logic that should mean 50% less of a waiting line. Oh yeah If you are here to keep an eye over comments posted and give warnings, please don't be so patronising in yer comments.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ssmith
I know i can pass the bloody thing

So did many of those posting in the 'Unsuccessful' thread.

sunnyside

ssmith6287 wrote: »

Cheers man, Im after signing up for another 10 hours of lessons. thats 1200€ Im after spending on lessons in 3 months. €200 less then what Im been quoted for insurance for a year.

I bought the car without a full licence because there is no way I could afford that many lessons. I'm going to continue with lessons until I do and hopefully pass a test just not as regular, maybe one lesson every 2 weeks.

My concern about Smiths situation is that some driving instructors must see people like him as easy money. 40 hours of lessons to drive an automatic car:eek: I personally would prefer to invest some of that money in the cost of the car.

I am well aware that cars are expensive to run but I'd prefer to be paying for the car than endless lessons. My instructor told me it's much easier to pass a test if you're used to driving around yourself and not just depending on lessons.

My situation's a bit different to most of the posters here though because I'm a 30 year old female, not an 18 year old male and my insurance was €650 so not too expensive.

ssmith6287

Im learning in a manual car, my boss asked me to move his jeep one day, its an automatic. just had to move it 100m up the road. just felt awkward, but thats a different post. Erm I agree I'd love to be out on my own driving, but I dunno if its worth the risk. I know my driving instructor since i was 12. Hes sound, he's encouraginf me to get my own car. I want to get my own car. Most gards are actually quite leniant with L drivers, providing ye drive well and arent dangerous then they seem to turn a blind eye. only problem is Drogheda seems to be were all the young lads from templemoor go for their experience, so they do evrything to the book.

sunnyside

You'll probably be an excellent driver by the end of the lessons and that's an investment for the future.

I shouldn't be saying this here but I'm not worried at all that I'm breaking the law.:o I have no intention of doing it forever but this is where I've had to start. That said I'm only driving in fairly quiet areas for now, not at rush hour and not at night. But again I don't fit the very young male profile so I don't expect anyone to take much notice of me.

I think it would have made more sense to keep the learner drivers off the road at night because that's when a lot of the speeding and accidents occur.

Although I think the correct thing for the government to be doing would be to increase the cost of a driving licence and have the mandatory lessons included in the cost.

ssmith6287

the 6 month waiting time should be abolished too. If someone passes their theory takes no lessons and fails a test before they go round the 1st corner then theyll be found out. If this 6 month thing wasnt there, I was still gonna get 20 lessons. Its just very frustrationg knowing u can do something very well, to a test standard. but u cant do the test, not because of a waiting line but because of a pointless law. Its like if yer in college. ye cover a course in 2 weeks, and ye find yer just repeating it over and over and over. I love driving but because ive only got an hour time frame to do it in , its just getting boring now. When yer bored doing something ye get careless because yer looking for something new to keep ye amused

sunnyside

Maybe it's a method of reducing the number of applications for tests and hence reduce the waiting time for a test. Often a lot of these rules are caused by red tape/administration rather than practical things like how long it takes to learn to drive. I do see your problem Smith and I can see how annoying it is for you. Of course there's no guarantee of passing but it would be good if you could attempt it.

ssmith6287

The one thing ive said is, Do 5 mock tests with an ISM registered driver, take the average, If the average is basically a pass on yer driving test then ye get a licence like the old 2nd provisional where ye can drive unacompanied. Its a very simple idea, and I honestly think it could work. yer doing 5 tests istead of 1, if ye can pass 5 tests then surely yer competent enough to drive by yerself

Stark

ssmith6287 wrote:

When yer bored doing something ye get careless because yer looking for something new to keep ye amused

Well aren't you great. "I would drive properly but it's boring". Go post "5 stars" in that "how good a driver are you" thread in Motors.

You are the reason why the 6 month wait is there. If it wasn't, you would have people being on good behaviour for a few weeks then not bothering. At least if people are forced to drive properly for 6 months, then good habits will be more ingrained.

ssmith6287 wrote:

Its a joke. No other country in the world has to put up with this crap.

People in other countries have to put up with much much more than what we have to put up with.

ssmith6287

im the reason yeah, good man. I have 2 hours of driving a week, I wanna do something different. Ive coffered evrything bar driving on a bloody motorway. Ye are great people slating me because I wanna drive, not just spin round a test route.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

DancingDaisy

On the idea of getting a car, if you have an accompanied driver that can go with you then I personally think it's a good idea. I have my fifth lesson this evening, but I had bought a car just before I received my permit in the post.

According to my instructor I'm doing quite well in the lessons and it is thanks to the fact that I'm getting three or four hours practice on top of my weekly lessons in my own car with an accompanied driver.

Anyhow, the point I'm trying to make is that it is, in my experience, very beneficial for you to have the ability to practice what you have learnt during your lesson, before your next lesson.

However, if it is possible then try and get insured on somebody else's car, and anyhow driving without the accompanied driver just isn't worth the risk imo.:)