Trade in assessment, may be of some help for some people:

Dancing_Priest

@ AudiChris, in my eyes thats a very good explanation.
@ Mickdw, Does that explanation wash with you as someone who has personal experience in purchasing a 5 figure product?

The problem we face in the motor industry is that we sell a very expensive product, more expensive than any savile row suit, or big screen TV. However although our prices are in luxury territory our profit margins are not. I know it's hard to believe this from a consumers eye view.
But to give some perspective I attended a sales managers course about two months ago with a gentleman by the name of Brian Milsted and he showed us some anonomised accounts of a garage (in Ireland) that was making an overall profit margin of 3.5%..... He spent the next hour trying to convince us that such a margin was possible. I'm still not totally convinced.

Where is Clare_Guy?, Can you access the internet from a business jet?

mikemac

Darragh29 wrote: »

That exact same thing happened my mate! He took a car in with an engine fault light on and he didn't cop it at the time but it turned out the turbo was gone so he is paying out of his own pocket for cleaning up the situation, I don't think the boss knows about that though, he is taking the hit on the job to basically return the situation to one where the car came in without a turbo problem! The alternative is that he could lose his job or keep his job and have the money taken out of his wages and also lose major credibilty and have the boss looking over his shoulder for the next two years so he reckons it's better for everyone if he deals with it this way...

Payment of Wages Act 1991

If the salesperson wants to pay to get this fix then fair enough. But a boss can't threaten to deduct your wages for a mistake. If they did, then that that can be appealed to a tribunal.
Do you think barmen personally pay for every dropped bottle or spilt pint out of their wages?
Anyone, back on topic..........

nogoodnamesleft

knife_fighter wrote: »

For a lad who can write 8 posts in an hour this last one is taking a while.

With regards to you arguement about costs, where to start

Firstly any dealership worth is salt will have three departments, 1 sales 2 service 3 stores
At the end of each month each of these department will have to turn a profit, you have to think of it as 3 different business under the one roof, Its a case of the service dept. trying to get as much out of the sales dept. the parts trying the same with the service

So your idea of getting everything for nothing is carzy

Its costs the sales Dept. the very same to get a service (Prob. more) that the members of the public, the same for a valet and so on

Each department must prove it salt and show itself profitable, that aint possible if they give away their service's is it now??

As for the cost of the house charge getting you all confussed, Well here we go

Light & Heat 30k
Rates 5k
Water Charges 2k
Warrenty Comebacks 15K
Phones 7k
Misc 5k
Advertising 50k

Total 114k

These are all costs have to be covered with the house charge( Which are probally under estimated)

Finally if you can show me any other business with a turnpover of 20Million plus that only turns 1% profit, I will post up Pics of me eating my hat

Firstly, very informative post lads both from limerick_man and Audi_Chris from a dealers poing of view.

From Knife fighters post above about the 3 depts each acting as 3 independant businesses to one another. Im slightly pessimistic from personal experience buying a used car from a Main Vw dealer. Test drove a Diesel 2001(B5)passat 100bhp a few years also for sale by one of the salesmen working there. Noticed it was underpowered (turbo not kicking in) was told it would be sorted as well as a full service thrown in as part of the deal. When I returned to take the car for another test the following day was happy with the car and bought it. Got a invoice for the work carried out also here is the intresting bit:

New intercooler hose pipe fitted between the engine manifold and turbo (common passat problem especially on the 130bhp passats).

Standard Oil Change and filter. Incorrect type of oil put into the car they put in Helix 10w40 oil this is at a VW MAIN DEALER. PD engines take 5w40 (vw spec 505.01 for fixed interval).

There was no labour charge included for any of the work carried out on the car.


On a different note. Differing prices from main dealers for the same item. Needed a second key for my current car (wanted the full remote key as well as coding for ECU and alarm. Priced local main dealer who was charging in the region of 270euro at the time, priced a second main dealer in Cork charged 205euro. How can this be justified?


Audi Chris and Limerick main are explaining the by the book method of how reputable dealers conduct business, but there are may who do not conduct business this way. One dealer in Kerry tried sell me a car which was absolutely filthy. He also went to point out features of the car electric windows etc. Put down the drivers electric window on the test drive and the fcuking thing wouldnt come back up. Salesmans reply "It will all be fixed when its serviced!!" :rolleyes: Needless to say I didnt buy the car or any car from that garage for that matter.

nogoodnamesleft

knife_fighter wrote: »

For a lad who can write 8 posts in an hour this last one is taking a while.

With regards to you arguement about costs, where to start

Firstly any dealership worth is salt will have three departments, 1 sales 2 service 3 stores
At the end of each month each of these department will have to turn a profit, you have to think of it as 3 different business under the one roof, Its a case of the service dept. trying to get as much out of the sales dept. the parts trying the same with the service

So your idea of getting everything for nothing is carzy

Its costs the sales Dept. the very same to get a service (Prob. more) that the members of the public, the same for a valet and so on

Each department must prove it salt and show itself profitable, that aint possible if they give away their service's is it now??

As for the cost of the house charge getting you all confussed, Well here we go

Light & Heat 30k
Rates 5k
Water Charges 2k
Warrenty Comebacks 15K
Phones 7k
Misc 5k
Advertising 50k

Total 114k

These are all costs have to be covered with the house charge( Which are probally under estimated)

Finally if you can show me any other business with a turnpover of 20Million plus that only turns 1% profit, I will post up Pics of me eating my hat

Firstly, very informative post lads both from limerick_man and Audi_Chris from a dealers poing of view.

From Knife fighters post above about the 3 depts each acting as 3 independant businesses to one another. Im slightly pessimistic from personal experience buying a used car from a Main Vw dealer. Test drove a Diesel 2001(B5)passat 100bhp a few years also for sale by one of the salesmen working there. Noticed it was underpowered (turbo not kicking in) was told it would be sorted as well as a full service thrown in as part of the deal. When I returned to take the car for another test the following day was happy with the car and bought it. Got a invoice for the work carried out also here is the intresting bit:

New intercooler hose pipe fitted between the engine manifold and turbo (common passat problem especially on the 130bhp passats).

Standard Oil Change and filter. Incorrect type of oil put into the car they put in Helix 10w40 oil this is at a VW MAIN DEALER. PD engines take 5w40 (vw spec 505.01 for fixed interval).

There was no labour charge included for any of the work carried out on the car.


On a different note. Differing prices from main dealers for the same item. Needed a second key for my current car (wanted the full remote key as well as coding for ECU and alarm. Priced local main dealer who was charging in the region of 270euro at the time, priced a second main dealer in Cork charged 205euro. How can this be justified?


Audi Chris and Limerick main are explaining the by the book method of how reputable dealers conduct business, but there are may who do not conduct business this way. One dealer in Kerry tried sell me a car which was absolutely filthy. He also went to point out features of the car electric windows etc. Put down the drivers electric window on the test drive and the fcuking thing wouldnt come back up. Salesmans reply "It will all be fixed when its serviced!!" :rolleyes: Needless to say I didnt buy the car or any car from that garage for that matter.

-Chris-

nogoodnamesleft wrote: »

From Knife fighters post above about the 3 depts each acting as 3 independant businesses to one another. Im slightly pessimistic from personal experience buying a used car from a Main Vw dealer.

This is true because (as I think Alun covered earlier) there's an opportunity cost for any department by helping any other department.
If the service department service a car I'm selling, it takes away a mechanic and ramp that they could otherwise use for retail sales.

I came into sales with the mistaken understanding that internal work was charged at a cheaper rate as it's just "the garage moving money from one pocket to the other". My boss soon put me straight on that!!

nogoodnamesleft wrote: »

...Got a invoice for the work carried out also here is the intresting bit:...

...Incorrect type of oil put into the car...

...There was no labour charge included for any of the work carried out on the car.

Putting the wrong oil in is poor workmanship.
Putting the wrong oil on the invoice (that won't be charged to you) is poor bureaucracy.
You need to check with the garage which oil they actually used.

Not sure about the lack of labour charge - you'd have to talk to their accounts dept. about that one. The parts are the only physical bits that need to be invoiced, the labour charge is notional for the garage.

Rest assured though, the salespeople pay just as much for servicing as you do!

nogoodnamesleft wrote: »

On a different note. Differing prices from main dealers for the same item. Needed a second key for my current car (wanted the full remote key as well as coding for ECU and alarm. Priced local main dealer who was charging in the region of 270euro at the time, priced a second main dealer in Cork charged 205euro. How can this be justified?

I remember a newsagent across the road from my guitar teacher's house when I was young who charged £1 for a can of Coke when everyone else charged 60p. I'd only pay it if I were particularly early for a lesson and incredibly thirsty.

nogoodnamesleft wrote: »

Audi Chris and Limerick main are explaining the by the book method of how reputable dealers conduct business, but there are may who do not conduct business this way. One dealer in Kerry tried sell me a car which was absolutely filthy. He also went to point out features of the car electric windows etc. Put down the drivers electric window on the test drive and the fcuking thing wouldnt come back up. Salesmans reply "It will all be fixed when its serviced!!" :rolleyes: Needless to say I didnt buy the car or any car from that garage for that matter.

Some people are less professional than others, those who aren't deserve to lose all custom and go out of business, those who are deserve and earn their success.
By withdrawing your business you exercised the ultimate sanction available to us as punters. More of us should do it, and more often!

L-M

nogoodnamesleft wrote: »

On a different note. Differing prices from main dealers for the same item. Needed a second key for my current car (wanted the full remote key as well as coding for ECU and alarm. Priced local main dealer who was charging in the region of 270euro at the time, priced a second main dealer in Cork charged 205euro. How can this be justified?

I was buying a quarter panel lately for a car off Renault. I rang a few places and all came in at about 550 incl vat. I rang one fella who had one in stock for a long time and in total i think i paid 220 of one Renault dealer(he had it in stock).These things can happen if the parts area have a certain part for such a time and they want to get rid of it.

nogoodnamesleft

Limerick-man wrote: »

I was buying a quarter panel lately for a car off Renault. I rang a few places and all came in at about 550 incl vat. I rang one fella who had one in stock for a long time and in total i think i paid 220 of one Renault dealer(he had it in stock).These things can happen if the parts area have a certain part for such a time and they want to get rid of it.

Might be true with some part items, however for the key the dealer had to order the key from dublin as its cut according to the VIN of the Vehicle.
The main body of the key is a standard item and its coded at the dealers when the car is present to match up to ECU and immobiliser. As far as I can remember the fee for coding the key was different at both dealers.

I havent tried pricing service items but I recon there could be a range of prices. Would be intresting to compare for instance at a Main Skoda Dealer as opposed to an Audi Main Dealer as they share some common parts.

jonnygee

I have followed this thread with intrest, the truth is that come january when i am ready to change my car then if my dealer wants to offer me a silly price for my trade in which he wanted to do in july then i simply wont be changing my car for a shiny new one. It would be stupid on my part to spend the money they are asking. I think the dealers are in panic mode at the minute, some buyers might be silly enough to part with ridiculos sums but not me or I expect most sensible buyers.

Darragh29

gabgab wrote: »

Fair and valid points, however;

It is quiete unlikely if you are offered €13,000 as a trade in figure that you will sell it for €15,000 privately yourself, not impossible but also not likely.

And again it is the argument that comes up time and time again, but customers choose to ignore. Business's that do something day in day out have costs that need to be covered, and from what I have seen very few people have a decent understanding of what costs are actually involved and what in totality the amount to.

When you have done this, sold your car privatley, will you go and look at new cars? Yes.

Will you expect the following:
The cars to be clean (valetors and twice weekly washing excluding initial extensive valet)
The cars to be fueled, allowing a decent test drive (fuel, garage insurance policy)
Time to be taken with you (decent numbers of staff to allow adequate and prompt dealings with you the valuable customer)
Opening hours that suit you (staff available, as a result longer hours, increased wages)
Contactable member of the sales team with a personal touch (company paid for mobile phone)
Clean, well maintained, spacious, facilities, with customer parking, toilets, tea, coffee, (premises, light heat etc,
Then if you are going to deal, particularly with a straight deal, a percentage discount,

This thread is not a them and us argument, it is merely to try and answer questions, and to highlight to customers that all the things that they expect when going to buy a car, come at a large cost to a garage. The garage is a business and needs to make a profit,

People as a rule get emotionally attached to their cars, and nearly always have a over inflated perception of what the car is worth without the knowledge or expertise to understand what it is realistically worth to a business that has to make a profit.


So, the car that someone offered you €13,000 but you reckon you can get €15,000 for, what research has brought you to this conclusion? Have you successfully done this in the past, ahcieved in a private sale 15,000 when offered 13,000

And can you see based on the original post, how if this is the case for you selling your car on the side of the street, we as a business with overheads cannot offer you the same?

Have to say, this is probably the best post I've read on this forum since I've been here.

gabgab

jonnygee wrote: »

I have followed this thread with intrest, the truth is that come january when i am ready to change my car then if my dealer wants to offer me a silly price for my trade in which he wanted to do in july then i simply wont be changing my car for a shiny new one. It would be stupid on my part to spend the money they are asking. I think the dealers are in panic mode at the minute, some buyers might be silly enough to part with ridiculos sums but not me or I expect most sensible buyers.

Can I ask you though how you know it is a silly price?

Do you know the market?
Do you know what you're car is going to actually fetch in terms of a straight sale on a forecourt, including the charges, costs, and profit margin included in that deal?
Please post up your car details and what you believe is a realistic price for it?

Without sounding patronising, this attitude of I am not getting what I want does not wash. The factors you have considered, the variables that need to be taken into account and the costs involved are rarely if ever considered by the customer that point blank believes their car is worth more,

If the price previously was not in line with your expectations, how much have you reduced your figure by for the next price?

I would be very interested to hear the answers to these questions,

Gab

Cyrus

Sorry but i think you are completely wrong, the last three cars i have sold privately (all within the last 18-20 months) i have briefly looked into trading them in.

one was a e46 bmw 323ci was offered €13k trade in and i sold it for €17k, one was an e39 530i sport, offered €135.k trade, sold for €17k and one was a mkiv golf gti, offered €12k and sold for €14,750.

now i never got too far with the garages in qn as i was just exploring what i might get but they were offering now discount on the car i was looking at and a derisory (in my opinion and subsequently proved right when i sold privately) offer for my own. so instead i got a good price and cash to knock 10-12% off my next car

all cars were meticulously maintained and in excellent order with very high specs and low mileage, didnt make one bit of difference to the garages in question, i had no problem selling the cars to private buyers looking for good examples, all sold to the first viewer and all within 3 weeks of being put up for sale.

Zube

gabgab wrote: »

Without sounding patronising, this attitude of I am not getting what I want does not wash.

I think jonnygee's point is perfectly reasonable:

when i am ready to change my car then if my dealer wants to offer me a silly price for my trade in which he wanted to do in july then i simply wont be changing my car for a shiny new one.

If the second hand market is a bloodbath and trade in values are way down, I think many people will stick with what they are driving for an extra year, and wait for things to settle.

gabgab

Cyrus wrote: »

Sorry but i think you are completely wrong, the last three cars i have sold privately (all within the last 18-20 months) i have briefly looked into trading them in.

one was a e46 bmw 323ci was offered €13k trade in and i sold it for €17k, one was an e39 530i sport, offered €135.k trade, sold for €17k and one was a mkiv golf gti, offered €12k and sold for €14,750.

now i never got too far with the garages in qn as i was just exploring what i might get but they were offering now discount on the car i was looking at and a derisory (in my opinion and subsequently proved right when i sold privately) offer for my own. so instead i got a good price and cash to knock 10-12% off my next car

all cars were meticulously maintained and in excellent order with very high specs and low mileage, didnt make one bit of difference to the garages in question, i had no problem selling the cars to private buyers looking for good examples, all sold to the first viewer and all within 3 weeks of being put up for sale.

Fair play to you, I am delighted that you are getting rewarded for the work and for maintaining your cars in such a good way. The figures you are quoting as trade in figures and what you got back sound impressive. I do have to ask though, how many trade in figures did you get?

Also, it needs to be pointed out that a garage has different costs to you selling from outside your house, and also bear in mind that when people are buying privately, they feel less inclined to push as hard on discount as they do when dealing with a big garage.

L-M

Cyrus wrote: »

one was a e46 bmw 323ci was offered €13k trade in and i sold it for €17k, one was an e39 530i sport, offered €135.k trade, sold for €17k and one was a mkiv golf gti, offered €12k and sold for €14,750.

I wouldn't be too happy trading in any of those cars except the Gti. Those petrol Bmw's could be sitting on the forecourt for a long time as you can buy the more economical diesel versions (or smaller engined petrol version ie. the 520 or the 318 etc.). I would want to have some margin on them in case they were sitting there. As for the money you made on the Golf, factor in all the points and costs mentioned above and your not left with much of a margin.

gabgab

Zube wrote: »

I think jonnygee's point is perfectly reasonable:If the second hand market is a bloodbath and trade in values are way down, I think many people will stick with what they are driving for an extra year, and wait for things to settle.

It is a reasonable point, what I am asking is how they came about with the price that they believe is reasonable thats all,

If there is a sound basis for it, and a quantifiable way of coming about the price with consideration for the costs invloved from a businesses point of view, then both JohnnyGee and you are both right

Cyrus

gabgab wrote: »

Fair play to you, I am delighted that you are getting rewarded for the work and for maintaining your cars in such a good way. The figures you are quoting as trade in figures and what you got back sound impressive. I do have to ask though, how many trade in figures did you get?

Also, it needs to be pointed out that a garage has different costs to you selling from outside your house, and also bear in mind that when people are buying privately, they feel less inclined to push as hard on discount as they do when dealing with a big garage.

Thank you, i make a big effort to take care of my cars, in each case it was only one trade in offer but i was so annoyed i didnt bother especially as my cars sold so quickly privately.

i understand the costs that a garage incurs, but my feeling was that the above average condition and spec of my cars counted for nought, that said i was better of selling privately so it was win all round

Cyrus

Limerick-man wrote: »

I wouldn't be too happy trading in any of those cars except the Gti. Those petrol Bmw's could be sitting on the forecourt for a long time as you can buy the more economical diesel versions (or smaller engined petrol version ie. the 520 or the 318 etc.). I would want to have some margin on them in case they were sitting there. As for the money you made on the Golf, factor in all the points and costs mentioned above and your not left with much of a margin.

typical dealer attitude tho isnt it, yet i was able to sell the cars in question in 2 and 3 weeks respectively

again i take your point on the dealers costs, so i have come to the conclusion that trading in isnt for me, i dont have those costs so its extra money in my pocket when i come to sell and plus i get a straight deal discount when i buy

L-M

Cyrus wrote: »

typical dealer attitude tho isnt it, yet i was able to sell the cars in question in 2 and 3 weeks respectively

again i take your point on the dealers costs, so i have come to the conclusion that trading in isnt for me, i dont have those costs so its extra money in my pocket when i come to sell and plus i get a straight deal discount when i buy

That is probably the only sensible post i have heard on this thread fro someone who didn't get the trade in price they wanted. And in the end, on all cars incl. straight deal discount, you were rewarded for taking the risk yourself and saved maybe €10K +

Zube

gabgab wrote: »

If thier is s sound basis for it, with consideration for the costs invloved from a businesses point of view, then both JohnnyGee and you are both right

Well, no, my car is worth a certain amount to me. It doesn't have to be based on a business case, I can pull that figure out of my @rse, because it's my car. You can't tell me that value is wrong, and you can't force me to sell it at a lower price.

Mind you, I'm not going to get shirty if a dealer refuses to offer me that, or refuses to take the old POS off my hands at any price. Some people seem to feel personally insulted if a dealer's value for their car is less than they feel it's worth, which is a bit silly.

gabgab

If it is only one trade in figure then its not a fair rxample, not taking away from your cars or what you got back for them privately, but it does need to be shown that it is not that fair a example.

Like any business certain places have a preference for certain cars and products, a premium used car garage specialising in clean high end BMW etc,

Michelin star restaurants do not like childrens parties, will they do one, yes maybe, will they do it aswell as someone that pecialises in it? Yes, will the kids have as much fun? Probably not,

Cyrus

gabgab wrote: »

If it is only one trade in figure then its not a fair rxample, not taking away from your cars or what you got back for them privately, but it does need to be shown that it is not that fair a example.

Like any business certain places have a preference for certain cars and products, a premium used car garage specialising in clean high end BMW etc,

Michelin star restaurants do not like childrens parties, will they do one, yes maybe, will they do it aswell as someone that pecialises in it? Yes, will the kids have as much fun? Probably not,

maybe not fair becuase in the end the cars sold quickly privately and i didnt need to do the rounds, that said it was three different cars, three different (large franchised) garages and the same result every time

-Chris-

Zube wrote: »

Well, no, my car is worth a certain amount to me. It doesn't have to be based on a business case, I can pull that figure out of my @rse, because it's my car. You can't tell me that value is wrong, and you can't force me to sell it at a lower price.

I think this is what it really comes down to, and it agrees with Cyrus's experience too - there's a difference between what a car's worth and what it's worth to the person who's using it.

I've had plenty of people coming in who've been disappointed in their trade-in values over the last few months. Maybe some thought I was ripping them off, hopefully most understood that it was just due to a change in the market.
I'd never argue with someone over the value of their car, but would try and justify our position in relation to it.

Simple factors like:
The fact that their car is worth less than they thought or hoped may push the new car they're looking at out of their budget.
The fact that they owe more money on the car than it's worth (as a trade-in) may put them off changing.
The fact that they'd be happier holding onto the car rather than trading in, that the car is worth more to them than I can allow.
The fact that they believe they can sell the car privately themselves on better terms and are willing to take on the work.


All these factors mean that, although I can prove to someone that the trade-in value we're offering is fair and their price expectation is too high, winning that argument often does little more than alienate the customer.

If the customer does their research and comes to the conclusion that my pricing is fair (in the current market) and they're happy to proceed based on that, then we've got a deal.
Otherwise there's no point in me being petty and proving them wrong, and equally little point in them getting shirty and defensive and feeling like I'm trying to offend them with a below-par offer.

Cyrus, I appreciate your attitude and I wish more customers had it!

omerin

... and the moral of this thread is - buy privately!

i'm looking for a car at the moment and i have called to a number of dealers looking for a 07 car. many of the cars on the forecourt had scratches and dents and you can bet your bottom dollar that if theses flaws weren't pointed out to the salesman they would be left there after the sale.
the op posted a list of costs and potential profit on a trade in, but anybody trading in a car knows they will not get anywhere near the discount if it was a straight sale, point is any lost profit on the op list on selling the traded in car is made up by the salesman keeping the discount he would have given on a straight sale.
i am a cash purchaser and having looked at a car at a dealer recently was told that it costs an average of 850 euro to turn around traded cars for re-sale. i was looking at a 07 car, i nearly wet myself, needless to say i wouldn't be going back

Keith C

Cyrus wrote: »

dont have those costs so its extra money in my pocket when i come to sell and plus i get a straight deal discount when i buy

Just to go slightly off topic, to the dealers out there, given the current market, what percentage of discount would you give off, for cash buyer, a new car circa €30k?
I set up a thread but didnt get many replies.
Judging by this thread its fair to say dealers pfrefer to see cash buyers rather then another trade in taking up space on forecourts.

gabgab

omerin wrote: »

... and the moral of this thread is - buy privately!

i'm looking for a car at the moment and i have called to a number of dealers looking for a 07 car. many of the cars on the forecourt had scratches and dents and you can bet your bottom dollar that if theses flaws weren't pointed out to the salesman they would be left there after the sale.
the op posted a list of costs and potential profit on a trade in, but anybody trading in a car knows they will not get anywhere near the discount if it was a straight sale, point is any lost profit on the op list on selling the traded in car is made up by the salesman keeping the discount he would have given on a straight sale.
i am a cash purchaser and having looked at a car at a dealer recently was told that it costs an average of 850 euro to turn around traded cars for re-sale. i was looking at a 07 car, i nearly wet myself, needless to say i wouldn't be going back

No Warranty.

Which part of the €850 trade in figure almost made you wet yourself?

mickdw

mickdw wrote: »

Example:

I buy a new car. 55000 retail.
I get offered 13000 trade in.
Thats 42000 less bargaining to change.

I sell my car for 15000 private
and then im offered a straight sale price of less than 52,000 plus bargaining
Thats 37000 to change. Thats five grand instantly for the garage if i trade in.
Servicing, reconditioning & warranty costs on my trade in will be covered by the even higher resale cost the garage will get for my car compared to a private sale.
Not to forget the profits they would have on the straight sale price also.

AudiChris wrote: »

If you're offered 13,000 for a trade-in, it's probably worth 11,000 to the trade. The other 2k is made up of overallowance (or discount).
That won't hit a forecourt for €15k, I'd be surprised if you could sell it for that.

But if you do, the dealer will give you the €2k discount off the new car, so you're up by the difference between the trade value and what you sell the car for privately.

Profit is your reward for taking risk.

Here's where the dealer's taking costs that you aren't:
You've sold your car from your driveway (you haven't had to pay for a forecourt or portacabin or public insurance)
You've cleaned the car and NCT'd it yourself and put in the half-tank of fuel (you haven't had to pay valeters or mechanics)
You haven't offered test-drives - covered by your insurance
You haven't offered a warranty.
etc. etc.

Here's where you're taking the risk:
Stocking time

If you can't sell your car in time at the price you want, you'll have to pay two car loans or you'll have to "price it to sell". Possibly you'll have to defer/cancel your new car order because you haven't sold your car.
Part of a dealer's business is stocking and selling cars, not the same for private sellers.
If you're selling a car that's become less desirable since you ordered your new car (for example, the arse has fallen out of the Touareg market very recently), you may have to drop your price considerably to move it.


And no one will argue that the more time you spend prep'ing your car for sale the more likely you'll get a good price on your car, so by selling the car privately and doing all the work and taking all the risk, of course you're entitled to the profit instead of the dealer.

If you're looking to buy a car from me and you decide to sell your car privately and do a straight deal, I wouldn't begrudge you the reduced cost-to-change because you're putting in the effort and taking the risk and therefore deserve the reward.
If you're trading in to us and we're taking the risks and investing in your trade-in to make it forecourt-worthy, I hope you'd be equally magnanimous...

My figures above are not guesses. I actually did the above transactions exactly as detailed.
I sold a 2000 audi TT 1.8T Quattro with 107000 miles for 15000 euro after veing offered 13000 at audi dealer. (He didnt want the car I think)
Then on a straight deal I bought new A5 for 3000 less than retail so serious profit there.

-Chris-

mickdw wrote: »

My figures above are not guesses. I actually did the above transactions exactly as detailed.
I sold a 2000 audi TT 1.8T Quattro with 107000 miles for 15000 euro after veing offered 13000 at audi dealer. (He didnt want the car I think)
Then on a straight deal I bought new A5 for 3000 less than retail so serious profit there.

Dealer wasn't comfortable taking your trade in for some reason, you were comfortable selling it, you got good money for it. Fair play.

In my experience €3,000 is above average discount for an A5, you did well there and must be a shrewd negotiator.

You got an extra €1,000 off your car by negotiating well. You got more money for your trade in by taking the risk of selling the car privately. You got reward for taking risk and for being good at negotiating. I'm not criticising it Mick, I admire it.

I don't think your experience can be repeated by everyone but I do believe it happens.
I don't know the dealer's circumstances that led them to offer you €13,000 for your trade-in, but I'd presume there was a logic (or mistake) behind it - dealers aren't in the business of throwing away deals.



Edit/disclaimer (yes, another one...): Any discount or pricing figures I'm quoting here are based solely on my experience and not a result of discussions with other dealers or salespeople.

gabgab

I would echo Audi Chris points,

Fair play to you. However it must be said a Audi TT with that mileage is not a retail car for a main dealer, therefore the salesman is at the mercy of whatever price he can get from a trader. Traders can buy anything from 5 to 100 cars per week, as a result they are very aware of market prices, and tend to know, or have a colleague that knows the sort of things that go wrong with a particular car. They work on very small margins as they are selling trade to trade;

A trader knows the potential pitfalls of:
A performance car,
With costly parts, and based on averages for Audi TT's of its age
For its age, based on averages, high mileage

Then it is all the other things that someone in the trade will look for and at,
Crashed or damaged and repaired? If so how good was the repair
Service History, has it been maintained to intervals, by a reputable garage
Is there work that needs to be done?

The reason I point this out is that what a person with knowledge and experience (a trader doing this day in day out) will pay for a car versus somebody possibly without as much experience (I dont know who bought the car or what kind of experience or inspection they gave it) will pay may be vastly different,

mickdw

AudiChris wrote: »

Dealer wasn't comfortable taking your trade in for some reason, you were comfortable selling it, you got good money for it. Fair play.

In my experience €3,000 is above average discount for an A5, you did well there and must be a shrewd negotiator.

You got an extra €1,000 off your car by negotiating well. You got more money for your trade in by taking the risk of selling the car privately. You got reward for taking risk and for being good at negotiating. I'm not criticising it Mick, I admire it.

I don't think your experience can be repeated by everyone but I do believe it happens.
I don't know the dealer's circumstances that led them to offer you €13,000 for your trade-in, but I'd presume there was a logic (or mistake) behind it - dealers aren't in the business of throwing away deals.



Edit/disclaimer (yes, another one...): Any discount or pricing figures I'm quoting here are based solely on my experience and not a result of discussions with other dealers or salespeople.

A5 was bought before july and as we know they dropped 5k after july. Maybe that explains the discount. Audi took a 4.5k hit on the price themselves as vrt only dropped 500 euro so I guess it suited them to sell them even at much bigger discount at that stage. So I was still robbed. but just imagine if I had traded in and paid something close to retail and then had to suffer the 5k devaluation of the car, I would be rather annoyed!

-Chris-

mickdw wrote: »

A5 was bought before july and as we know they dropped 5k after july. Maybe that explains the discount. Audi took a 4.5k hit on the price themselves as vrt only dropped 500 euro so I guess it suited them to sell them even at much bigger discount at that stage. So I was still robbed. but just imagine if I had traded in and paid something close to retail and then had to suffer the 5k devaluation of the car, I would be rather annoyed!

Nobody outside MDL knew about the new pricing structure until it was released officially (I posted it here same day). I don't believe they allowed you extra discount because of knowledge of the price drop. You would have got that on your own merits.