unclear speed camera photo

mondeo · 13-08-2008 7:18pm #1

Hey,

Relation had a speeding fine sent to their house this morning. The problem is
that one of the digits on the reg plate is unreadable. For example say your car has the reg "03 ww 691" (from top of my head)... The 9 is unreadable in the image due to dirt on the plate, the 9 could easily be a 3 or even an 8 but she still recieved the fine..
I'm pretty sure this can be struck out due to unclear photo evidence even if it was her car and to be honest it probably was as it is same make and model etc.

Does the plate have to be 100% clear prior to a conviction? even if the missing digit is obvious if you done a search on the revenue database...
Seeking a solicitor for advice on this one. Any views? I think it would be
an interesting case to follow up...She does not deny it is her car but under a technicality she may escape this one. Could easily be a car with a false plate etc etc.

Clare_Guy · 13-08-2008 7:25pm

if she does not deny it's her car, what's the point? she'd have to deny it was her car for there to be any case!...

"ah... yes judge that's me in my car speeding but it's a bad photo... look at it... that 9 could be a 3 or anything!"????

"4 points and €150 euro fine. Next Case..."

Yakult · 13-08-2008 7:25pm

Is it her car? as in same model and same reg?(bar the "9" been hard to pick out)

Imo she broke the law, she should pay the consequences instead of trying to find a loophole out of it.

mondeo · 13-08-2008 7:32pm

It is the same make and model of car. She says it probably was her but she is not signing her name to anything...At least not yet anyways. 67 in a 60 zone. Hardly hardcore speeding there now...:rolleyes:

Clare_Guy · 13-08-2008 7:39pm

mondeo wrote: »

It is the same make and model of car. She says it probably was her but she is not signing her name to anything...At least not yet anyways. 67 in a 60 zone. Hardly hardcore speeding there now...:rolleyes:

simply return it to the sender by registered post saying it's not her car. let them sort out the mess.

mondeo · 13-08-2008 7:42pm

Clare_Guy wrote: »

simply return it to the sender by registered post saying it's not her car.

I think thats her leed right now. She's a hard women to pin anything on.
She is one of those who can talk her way out of a room with no doors.:pac:

Clare_Guy · 13-08-2008 7:50pm

mondeo wrote: »

I think thats her leed right now. She's a hard women to pin anything on.
She is one of those who can talk her way out of a room with no doors.:pac:

she doesn't have to "talk her way" out of anything. if the picture is as unclear as you say all she has to say is, "that's not my car"

mondeo · 13-08-2008 8:00pm

Clare_Guy wrote: »

she doesn't have to "talk her way" out of anything. if the picture is as unclear as you say all she has to say is, "that's not my car"

Okie I'll tell her that. Thanks

Bobo78 · 13-08-2008 8:08pm

I d recommend her to send that back to them and to deny about that being her car.

eringobragh · 13-08-2008 8:22pm

make a copy before its sent back incase it goes to court and there no physical evidence available

Clare_Guy · 13-08-2008 8:28pm

eringobragh wrote: »

make a copy before its sent back incase it goes to court and there no physical evidence available

if there's no "physical evidence" how can they take her to court?

Clare_Guy · 13-08-2008 8:28pm

mondeo wrote: »

Okie I'll tell her that. Thanks

let us know how she gets on...?

biko · 13-08-2008 8:32pm

So it worked then?

atlantean · 13-08-2008 8:53pm

mondeo wrote: »

that one of the digits on the reg plate is unreadable. For example say your car has the reg "03 ww 691" (from top of my head)... The 9 is unreadable in the image due to dirt on the plate, the 9 could easily be a 3 or even an 8 but she still recieved the fine..
I'm pretty sure this can be

I see where you are coming from but there is a possibility that even with a missing digit they can identify the car. Using your example 03 WW 691 is a red Ford Fusion. How many other cars with the reg number 03 WW 6-1 are red Ford Fusions? None I would imagine so through a process of elimination the powers that be came up with this car.

Dampsquid · 13-08-2008 8:56pm

Well if its unreadable, then how did they work out it was her car?
They may have a much better quality photo of the car speeding. Why not just pay the fine and forget about it.

Why go to a solictor, would it not be cheaper to just pay up.

She may also get done for not having her reg plate 100% visible.

Clare_Guy · 13-08-2008 9:00pm

atlantean wrote: »

I see where you are coming from but there is a possibility that even with a missing digit they can identify the car. Using your example 03 WW 691 is a red Ford Fusion. How many other cars with the reg number 03 WW 6-1 are red Ford Fusions? None I would imagine so through a process of elimination the powers that be came up with this car.

for one thing, the pictures are black & white, secondly, this is ireland, nothing works as efficiently as it should, according to posters on other threads it takes months to process when they have all the evidence they need. they've only got 6 months to convict you. delay, delay, delay. take your chances. if all else fails get relative or friend to take the points for you...

atlantean · 13-08-2008 9:02pm

mondeo wrote: »

The problem is
that one of the digits on the reg plate is unreadable.

Dampsquid wrote: »

Well if its unreadable, then how did they work out it was her car?

It is only one digit that is not readable so all they need to do is check 10 reg plates to pick the matching car !

alias no.9 · 13-08-2008 9:03pm

Unless she has an extremely common make and model, she should just send back the fine and her license number and save herself the hassle and expense of court. A partial reg combined with make, model and colour will give a positive identification in most cases. It's unlikely that another car that is the same make, model and colour to share all but one digit of a registration. All that is required to discount that possibility is a list of the nine other cars that share all but the obscured digit. How do you think she got the summons in the first place. She may as well be arguing that somebody else must have been driving a different car on false plates.
The other thing to consider is the fact that fixed speed cameras take two photos and gatso vans have a video camera in the front of the van to catch the rear registration plates of motorbikes. Would she still be confident of getting away with it knowing that there is either a second photograph or video clip in the posession of the gardai?

atlantean · 13-08-2008 9:04pm

Clare_Guy wrote: »

if all else fails get relative or friend to take the points for you...

You have nice relatives and friends - none of mine would do that for me!

Clare_Guy · 13-08-2008 9:06pm

Dampsquid wrote: »

Well if its unreadable, then how did they work out it was her car?

someone in the dept. processed it, if it's questionable it'll get thrown out.

Dampsquid wrote: »

They may have a much better quality photo of the car speeding.

they send you an exact copy of the only photo

Dampsquid wrote: »

Why not just pay the fine and forget about it.
Why go to a solictor, would it not be cheaper to just pay up.

eh... points.

Dampsquid wrote: »

She may also get done for not having her reg plate 100% visible.

remind us... what is the law against a dirty number-plate?

JohnDigital · 13-08-2008 9:06pm

Clare_Guy wrote: »

for one thing, the pictures are black & white.

The pictures they send may be B&W, but i'd imagine original image that they have is colour.

miju · 13-08-2008 9:08pm

I'd suggest going to court trying to lie to the judge and then looking a complete tool (not to mention other possible charges) when the Garda whip out the FULL PICTURE showing the driver. It's easy to compare regs in the NVDB against models as well.

The fine just zooms in on the reg FFS :rolleyes: So just pay up and stop trying to weasel out of it. Their not special , they broke the law and have to pay the penalty like everyone else.

Clare_Guy · 13-08-2008 9:10pm

atlantean wrote: »

You have nice relatives and friends - none of mine would do that for me!

someone outside of the jurisdiction perhaps?!!... :rolleyes:

Clare_Guy · 13-08-2008 9:10pm

JohnDigital wrote: »

The pictures they send may be B&W, but i'd imagine original image that they have is colour.

you'd imagine wrong...

Our man in Havana · 13-08-2008 9:11pm

They are wise to that old trick.

Clare_Guy · 13-08-2008 9:14pm

miju wrote: »

I'd suggest going to court trying to lie to the judge and then looking a complete tool (not to mention other possible charges) when the Garda whip out the FULL PICTURE showing the driver. It's easy to compare regs in the NVDB against models as well.

it's not Matlock or LA Law, the gardai will not have some "secret" evidence they'll spring in court to catch you out... :rolleyes:

you'd imagine it'd be easy compare stuff against other stuff but the reality is, the system is not that efficient...

Clare_Guy · 13-08-2008 9:16pm

Bond-007 wrote: »

They are wise to that old trick.

sure, they know about it, truth is, at the moment, as the law stands, they can't do anything to you if someone else is "driving" your car!

Our man in Havana · 13-08-2008 9:21pm

Clare_Guy wrote: »

sure, they know about it, truth is, at the moment, as the law stands, they can't do anything to you if someone else is "driving" your car!

They may ask for proof that Mr. A Frenchman of 1 Rue de Chancers, Paris was driving.

Balfa · 13-08-2008 9:23pm

It's an interesting topic all the same. Aside from trying to weasel out of something you know is probably your fault, and assuming there's no secret evidence, I'd still like to know the legality of charging someone with a partial plate, and if the process of elimination is actually valid in court?

miju · 13-08-2008 9:24pm

Clare_Guy wrote: »

it's not Matlock or LA Law, the gardai will not have some "secret" evidence they'll spring in court to catch you out... :rolleyes:

well the reality is also that your wrong. they do have a full sized photo of the whole car and the driver.

Clare_Guy wrote: »

you'd imagine it'd be easy compare stuff against other stuff but the reality is, the system is not that efficient...

again the reality is your very wrong. it's actually very easy to pull of all different types of info from the NVDB especially when the reg is only going to be a varying 10 numbers at max :rolleyes:

Clare_Guy · 13-08-2008 9:25pm

Bond-007 wrote: »

They may ask for proof that Mr. A Frenchman of 1 Rue de Chancers, Paris was driving.

they'll ask Mr. A Frenchman...

What happens if someone else was driving my vehicle?

In cases where the driving offence was detected by camera, the fixed charge notice is sent to the registered owner of the vehicle. If the registered owner was not driving at the time of the offence they should complete the form attached to the notice, giving details of the person who was driving. This should then be returned to the relevant Garda Station with the original fixed charge notice. (Do not enclose payment). The Gardaí will then issue a fixed charge notice to the driver.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/travel-and-recreation/motoring-1/driving-offences/penalty-points-for-driving-offences

unclear speed camera photo

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