Why pick McCain?

Hobbes

First up this thread isn't for "Because Obama sucks" or "Why wouldn't you pick McCain" (I think loads of reasons why but willing to bite my tongue.

I would like to honestly know from those who are McCain supporters why McCain would be a good president. I mean proper reasons in relation to his policies.

So if possible avoiding..
- Obama comments.
- McCain Bashing
- War Hero / POW*
- airtime/etc or anything not directly related with running the country.

* While McCain has this, I don't see it as a skill that makes you presidential. It might be something that influences his policies, but it is the policies that are more important.

So is that possible? I promise to bite my tongue.

banquo

Hmm. I haven't made up my mind yet - not that i can vote - but what warms me to McCain is the following (below). Then again, he's a politician and needs congressional support to get near anything done, but hypothectically I support him on these:

1. He's pro free trade. 95% of america's customers live outside america, and I'd like like to pay less for my next iPod.

2. As things stand, a public school's income in America is related to the property tax, so schools in a rich area get way more money than a school in a slum. McCain has offered to scrap this in favour of a more fair policy (one that I can't find in detail anywhere online)

3. He's said that he'll suspend the tax on gas (car fuel) during June, July and August. The tax is 24.4%.

4. He's an anti-abortionist, which I like, but has said that it's not up to the president to decide these things, it's a local thing, which I like more.

5. A one-year 'freeze' on all non-military spending. it's not a freeze as in spend no money at all, but won't spend any more than is necessary. Wages, etc. Note: I haven't looked into this in any depth and it may be total bull****, but it sure *sounds* nice

6. Gay marraige. Obama has said that he'd support civil marraige, but not gay marraige. McCain has said 'I'm against it, but why the hell are you asking me? It's not the president's decision, go vote on it state by state on the off chances that the wants of the people in California are different from those in SC' (not an actual quote, but the gist)

That's all I can think of right now. I'm sure some of those are failrly lightweight but I'm very, very tired.

EDIT: RON PAUL!

Hobbes

Thanks for the response banquo.. So only 1 person actually has valid reasons as to why McCain should be elected? o_O

efb

Or maybe only one person's bothered to answer your poll.

Hobbes

efb wrote: »

Or maybe only one person's bothered to answer your poll.

I'd go with the previous statement. I mean the point of the thread is to sell McCain. The only other threads I've seen tend to bash Obama as a baseline as to why you should pick McCain. I mean I don't agree with some of banquo reasons but I respect that he does for those reasons. It also gave me some reading to do on areas I wouldn't of initially of bothered with McCain.

banquo

I think Hobbes has the right sentiment.

I looked into Pres. Oven Chip and found more substabnce than the '3rd GWB' facade, and the more I look into Obama the more substance I see behind him.

I think the problem lies in that, in their own ways, the candidates are far more compelling than in previous years - Comapre Obama to Gore, McCain to W. And also maybe character matters more than position - W was anti. Roe Vs Wade, and after 8 years it hasn't changed. Truth is, we don't know what the next president will face. And if we choose someone with vision, someone with guts, someone with gravitas, who's connected to other people's lives, and cares about making them better, then we'll be able to face what comes our way and achieve things we can't imagine yet.

turgon

banquo wrote: »

3. He's said that he'll suspend the tax on gas (car fuel) during June, July and August. The tax is 24.4%.

Yeah it makes me cry too when I see the gas guzzling Americans cant fill up their Hummers to the brim. Never mind the Georgians - its these guys that are suffering.

Oh and by the way, I dont know if you realize that they are only playing $3.80 a gallon. Thats €2.59 a gallon. Roughly €0.68 a litre.

Topaz in Cork Ireland selling at €1.25 (180% more). Do you still think Americans need a tax break?

banquo

1. Our wages our higher. Our minimum wage is like $11. Their federal MW is e4.46

2. Not every american drives a hummer.

3. If you can afford a hummer then the gas price probably doesn't bother you that much. I'm talking about a guy in a Skoda who's payign more to take his kids to school in the morning.

4. Even if nobody drove hummers or was greedy in any way, 24% tax is a lot on fuel.

Otacon

banquo wrote: »

Truth is, we don't know what the next president will face. And if we choose someone with vision, someone with guts, someone with gravitas, who's connected to other people's lives, and cares about making them better, then we'll be able to face what comes our way and achieve things we can't imagine yet.

Nice 'West Wing' paraphrasing!

I agree with many of McCain's positions, only thing is I agree with more of Obama's.

turgon

banquo wrote: »

I'm talking about a guy in a Skoda who's payign more to take his kids to school in the morning.

Maybe the guy who owns the Skoda should consider getting a smaller car, with that brand boasting about an average of a 1.6 engine.

Link 1 | Link 2 | Link 3 | Link 4

banquo wrote: »

24% tax is a lot on fuel.

Not half as bad as the 62.1% we pay here. In fact only 40% as bad.

And we have the ninth lowest price in the EU so I can only imagine what its like, for example, north of the border.

Hobbes

turgon, how about remaining on topic. This isn't to argue who is wrong or right to get an understand of why people are supporting McCain based on what policies.

Sand

Oh heres some points that mean that its not an affront to the truth and the way that the US election should be a contest, not a victory lap...

Commitment to Free Trade - This is the main consideration for me actually - his campaign is on record as viewing free trade as an opportunity for access to much larger markets, not a threat. As the US is a major player in trade talks, its to everyones benefit that the US is trading with the world as opposed to walling itself off behind trade barriers.

What other points mean McCain wouldnt make a bad US President?

Bi-Partisan - Hes got a long track record of working with Democrats to get things done, hes a moderate, not a fanatic - despite the smear jobs attempted. Interestingly, I saw a McCain ad on youtube which basically went along the lines of "What do Democrats really think of McCain?" And it was a list of Democrat worthies falling over themselves to praise McCain. Though, this was before he was the opposing Presidential candidate and needed to be portrayed as George Bush 2.0...well, 3.0.

Leadership - The US is at war, believe it or not. And to be honest, McCain seems the best man to win that war. For starters, he wants to win it which is always a good base to work from.

And hes called it right on the surge [ IIRC, his support was based on support for Petreus and US commanders judgement of the situation] , stuck to it even when it was political death and was proven correct in that view. He could have been proven wrong too if events had gone the other way, but hes demonstrated hell do what he thinks is right even if its wildly unpopular. Thats a mark of leader, as opposed to a poll chaser.

Hes also probably the best man to maintain the image of US willingness to use force that has ensured weaker regional powers keep basically peaceful. People might gripe and chafe about a US hegemony, but a US hegemony [ a liberal, democratic state as opposed to a totalarian police state] beats delicate balances of power between rival power blocks any day of the week when it comes to maintaining world peace. Ask the former colonial European Empire round about 1914 how that went.

Lobbying and Ethics Reform - I believe McCain has a good track record on that. His reputation as a Senator was built on it. I dont think John McCain will walk into the White House and suddenly lawmakers and lobbyists will become honest. But he will probably curb the worst of it.

Immigration - Seems the best man to handle that particular issue. He will have trust of immigrant groups from his attempts to square the circle previously. He simply has to get opponents of immigration reform onside by securing the border with Mexico so that 10 years down the line its not the same issue. And that has to be done without pissing off Mexico too much. Fun.

turgon

Hobbes wrote: »

turgon, how about remaining on topic.

Ok

Sand wrote: »

Leadership - The US is at war, believe it or not. And to be honest, McCain seems the best man to win that war. For starters, he wants to win it which is always a good base to work from.

Yes, and also I believe McCain might be more stern with countries like Russia. Although maybe the republicans are for more freedom on gas so they would not like to be to upfront with such a fuel-producing country.

Pocono Joe

Sometimes I fel like I’m the lone conservative here :rolleyes:. (off topic sort of, but I would like to see the same question of Obama without using the terms "Change," "Bush" or "Republicans"). Here are a couple of reasons for McCain:

He doesn’t support radical Judges who interpret what they "think" the Constitution means, instead of what it actually says.

He doesn’t think "tolerance" is reserved for only those who share his opinions, views, and ideals.

He doesn’t claim a higher moral ground in opposing the death penalty, while celebrating the killing of innocent unborn babies.

He doesn’t think our troops are "war criminals," and thugs who killed somebody in cold blood are just "victims of society."

He doesn’t scream and shout when innocent civilians are accidentally caught in the cross-fire, yet remain silent when terrorists kill them on purpose.

He doesn’t believe in giving a dollar to somebody without first having to take it away from somebody else.

He doesn’t think Ted Kennedy knows how to manage my money better than I do.

He doesn’t think Saddam, Kim Jong Il, and Castro were fairly elected, but our current President was not.

He doesn’t think the name of God/Jesus should be banned and censored, except when spoken in profanity.

He doesn’t think Michael Moore's films are "historically accurate."

He doesn’t think race riots are acceptable.

He doesn’t think lawsuits that deny any personal responsibility on the part of the plaintiff are justified.

He doesn’t think NPR is the only really fair and balanced news source.

He doesn’t think the best way to deal with terrorist regimes is to please and appease them.

He doesn’t think the UN should be the final authority, even in the U.S.

He doesn’t think if somebody disagrees with what is being said, that they are challenging or denying rights to Free Speech.

He doesn’t think that poverty is caused by the wealthy.

He doesn’t think the ACLU really gives a damn about individual rights.

He doesn’t scream and shout about Christians ramming their beliefs upon you, but says nothing when Atheists do the same.

He doesn’t think a lawyer taking 33% from a settlement for his services is fair, but the Government taking 33% of your paycheck for taxes is "too low."

He doesn’t think having an open-mind means being "pro-Gay", "pro-Abortion", "anti-Christian", "anti-Business", and "anti-Conservative."

He doesn’t think only white people can be racist.

He doesn’t think America deserved 9/11.

banquo

Otacon wrote: »

Nice 'West Wing' paraphrasing!

Aha! It worked; planted to seek out any other west wing fans

Best. Show. Ever.

Back on topic, free trade is a dealbreaker for me.

Pocono Joe wrote:

He doesn’t think our troops are "war criminals," and thugs who killed somebody in cold blood are just "victims of society."

Zell Miller's 2004 RNC Address ftw! Some incredible rhetoric.

Hobbes

Pocono Joe, most of your comments are just veiled Obama bashing, although most of those can be applied to Obama as well. I mean Micheal Moore? wtf has that got to do with his policies?

banquo

+1

Furthermore: Hobbes, posting at that time of the morning? Seems we have one dedicated mod!

Manic Moran

I'm almost certainly going to vote McCain (Even though my vote hasn't a hope in hell of counting for anything in the larger scheme of things: I'm in California), mainly as it's my view of the lesser evil.

1) He's bi-partisan. Obama is a Democrat loyalist, with something like a 97% voting track. McCain is far more willing to cross the line and work with the Opposition. Gang of 12 anyone? As a declared Independent, I prefer people who are more centrist.

2) (And this is petty, I know). I've had it to here with Obamamania. For the last two years I seem to have run into Democrats who believe that the White House in 2009 is their God-Given Right because they're not G.W. I despise that sort of arrogance. McCain isn't G.W. either. (On a related note, whilst acknowledging Obama's excellent oratorial skills, I also note he has a preference for stage-managed speechmaking, more than the town-hall formats where you have to be a little quicker on your feet). And the man's written two autobiographical books already? Talk about ego.

3) McCain is fiscally conservative (small "C"). His track record is that he does not vote for things which exceeds the government's budget, even if it's a subject which he supports. (Eg Veterans' Benefits). The US is running at enough of a deficit right now, I don't think we need more, regardless of how noble the causes the funding would be directed to are.

4) I like my firearms. Damned if I'm going to vote for someone who would prefer I didn't have them. The National Democratic party's draft Platform on the matter doesn't make me any happier about it either.

5) Chances are that the Democrats will retain control of Congress. I think I'd rather a bit more time where nobody can do too much damage. I'm not alone, historically in turbulent times the US electorate has picked a President from one party and given Congress to the other. I think this is not the time for any radical course changes in either direction. (Centrist, remember!)

6) Navy O-6 and 20-year Senator vs 7-year State Senator, 4-year Senator and laywer. I don't care how good you are, there's no comparing the experience levels.

7) Compare the responses by McCain and Obama to the Georgia situation. As one pundit noted, sometimes things completely out of the hands of the campaign managers comes up, and you get to see the 'real candidates.' McCain has been to Georgia a few times in recent years, his response to the Russian action was immediate, concise, and forceful. As far as I know, Obama's never been to Georgia and his first response was pretty non-committal. His second was a little more forceful, and his third statement was more or less in line with McCain's. But a couple of days later. So he took two more days to get to the same place. Hmm. Now, you can argue that McCain had the wrong policy, but Obama went the same way eventually. One of the things they teach you in OCS is that any decision executed now is probably better than the perfect decision executed much later, but in this case, the 'later' decision wasn't any different to the 'now' decision.

8) Iraq. Controversial, I know, but McCain is a hands-down winner for me on this one. Firstly, he got the 'surge' right. Obama was dead-nuts wrong. Well, fair enough, a fair few very competent people were wrong, one can't be perfect all the time. But after his recent trip to Iraq, when he met with Patraeus, the result was that the two disagreed on where to go from there. After being wrong to Patraeus the first time, he wants to go against him a second time? And besides, I don't like schedules any more than McCain does. Do the job right, then get the hell out of the country, and we don't need to go back.

9) In addition to being somewhat centrist, I'm also a Federalist. Render unto the States that which is to the States. Don't have the Federal Government trying to make laws which the States are perfectly capable and entitled to make on their own. Certainly don't try to have the Federal Goverment make laws as to things which only the States are entitled to make laws on. (I refer again to the D's platform on firearms). As Banquo notes, McCain is the better choice for this.

NTM

Manic Moran

banquo wrote: »

Aha! It worked; planted to seek out any other west wing fans

Best. Show. Ever.

Hell, no. The best political satire ever is "Yes, Minister/Yes, Prime Minister"

WW doesn't even come close.

NTM

Otacon

Manic Moran wrote: »

Hell, no. The best political satire ever is "Yes, Minister/Yes, Prime Minister"

WW doesn't even come close.

NTM

Pah!

Bull Island ftw!

On-topic, though I disagree with many of McCain's policies, if he picked a moderate as his running mate, I can see him being in the White House come January.

turgon

Otacon wrote: »

On-topic, though I disagree with many of McCain's policies, if he picked a moderate as his running mate, I can see him being in the White House come January.

Is he not a moderate? Relative to other republicans at least.

Otacon

turgon wrote: »

Is he not a moderate? Relative to other republicans at least.

Yes he is but someone more left than he is would appease more independants and may turn some right-sided Democrats.

I honestly don't think the GOP base would leave him, cos who are they gonna vote for instead. Some far-right Republicans may not show up in protest but most will realise that the Democrats will have the Senate and House again either way and will want a Republican in charge.

banquo

Otacon wrote: »

Pah!

Bull Island ftw!

Hmm, I dunno. 'Jesus in the House' was pretty funny though. And yeah, 'minister' was the best political satire ever, the WW was the best general TV show ever though.

/awaits comments insisting on The Wire's superiority in this field.

Re: McCain vs Obama: will all the other candidates gone, I reckon we need a new poll on this forum.