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Speeding ticket from mobile camera...

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  • 15-08-2008 10:46pm
    #1
    adrian.s
    Registered Users Posts: 171 ✭✭


    So I'm the delighted recipient today of two speeding notices (doing 65 & 66 in a 50). Both of them were for the same stretch of road, on a Thursday and the following Monday almost 2 months ago. Ok, so I take the slap on the wrist I was going 15K above the limit. But what bothers is me is the time it took them to issue these and the fact the van obviously hung around for a few days. This is a road that I drive on daily and where most people drive over 60KPH.

    If I just got one, and it arrived within a few weeks of it happening, I wouldn't be posting here, but are there any restrictions on how long they have to issue the fine? Two months seems a tad too long to me.

    The system needs to be fair so that if you're caught, you're informed quickly, pay and mend your ways. But with waiting times like this, it seems you could be off the road with penalty points before you'd even get the first notice. What's worrying me most now is the prospect of more of these, and I end up with a bucket load of points.

    Not sure whether to just pay up and hope there's no more or contest.

    Adrian.


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    #2
    -Chris-
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,035 ✭✭✭✭-Chris-


    You could contest your second set of points - you were in the wrong on both occasions (as you know) BUT by not sending you the first set of points in a timely fashion you didn't get the opportunity to modify your driving style in the meantime - which is the point of points in the first place.

    That being said, by catching you on the Thursday and Monday, they didn't really have time to send you the fines anyway...


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    #3
    Wishbone Ash
    Registered Users Posts: 24,995 ✭✭✭✭Wishbone Ash


    adrian.s wrote: »
    how long they have to issue the fine? Two months seems a tad too long to me
    You must be notified within 6 months (so they were well within it).


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    #4
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,812 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    They have 6 months to notify you of the offence!
    You don't have much hope if you don't pay up - the points double effectively then and you will spend time in court!


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    #5
    adrian.s
    Registered Users Posts: 171 ✭✭adrian.s


    Thanks for the comments,

    My biggest concern is that there could be more in the pipeline and then things start to get pretty serious.

    Points taken on the timeframes, but 6 months though is a shocking long time for them to be able to sit on this stuff.

    Any how, not the best of starts to my weekend!

    A.


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    #6
    ytareh
    Registered Users Posts: 1,107 ✭✭✭ytareh


    Hard luck man ,Im genuinely sympathetic ,what ever happened to the unwritten rule of '10mph grace' -of course like everything the changeover from mph to kmh was used to hammer us more ...Not that even 10kmh grace is there now -reports of an older lady being done for 6kmh over the limit recently here on Boards...I know they produced stats a while back to suggest that most people 'caught' were going way over the limit ie at least 20kmh over I think but theres bound to be 'bad egg' officers who are happy to give out as many tickets as possible rather than warnings ...Worst I ever heard of was 2mph over -like how can they claim thats accurately measured!?


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    #7
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,812 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    ytareh wrote: »
    Hard luck man ,Im genuinely sympathetic ,what ever happened to the unwritten rule of '10mph grace' -of course like everything the changeover from mph to kmh was used to hammer us more ...Not that even 10kmh grace is there now -reports of an older lady being done for 6kmh over the limit recently here on Boards...I know they produced stats a while back to suggest that most people 'caught' were going way over the limit ie at least 20kmh over I think but theres bound to be 'bad egg' officers who are happy to give out as many tickets as possible rather than warnings ...
    Wait till its all privatised. Zero tolerance then I reckon!
    ytareh wrote: »
    Worst I ever heard of was 2mph over -like how can they claim thats accurately measured!?
    They don't need to prove its calibrated at all. The law explicitly states that there is an assumption that the equipment is in perfect condition.


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    #8
    vengeance52
    Registered Users Posts: 1,526 ✭✭✭vengeance52


    well i got notification of points on the 20th july this year, for an offence dated the 28th july 2007. few days short of a year. when i rang up i was told the matter went to court. rang the court and was told the case was read out on 10/01/08 but as no summons was sent, it was struck out. Might be worth ringing up an seeing whats what.


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    #9
    Wishbone Ash
    Registered Users Posts: 24,995 ✭✭✭✭Wishbone Ash


    ytareh wrote: »
    what ever happened to the unwritten rule of '10mph grace'
    Wasn't it 10% grace?


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    #10
    ytareh
    Registered Users Posts: 1,107 ✭✭✭ytareh


    Yeah think it WAS 10% after all...particularly in the UK


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    #11
    Wishbone Ash
    Registered Users Posts: 24,995 ✭✭✭✭Wishbone Ash


    kbannon wrote: »
    They don't need to prove its calibrated at all. The law explicitly states that there is an assumption that the equipment is in perfect condition.
    Isn't the onus on the Gardai to provide a Certificate of Calibration for the speed detector if requested?


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    #12
    -Chris-
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,035 ✭✭✭✭-Chris-


    Wishbone Ash wrote: »
    Wasn't it 10% grace?

    I always understood the rule was 10%+2mph, but I've nothing to back that up... :o


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    #13
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,812 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Wishbone Ash wrote: »
    Isn't the onus on the Gardai to provide a Certificate of Calibration for the speed detector if requested?

    Not according to the Road Traffic Act 2004
    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2004/en/act/pub/0044/sec0015.html#partii-sec15
    “(1) The onus of establishing prima facie proof of a constituent of an offence (including the speed at which a person, whether the accused or another person, was driving) under section 47, 52, 53, 55, 91, 92, 93 or 94 of the Principal Act or section 35 of the Act of 1994 may be discharged by tendering evidence from which that constituent can be inferred of measurements or other indications which were given by—


    (a) electronic or other apparatus (including a camera) capable of providing a permanent record (including a permanent visual record) and are contained in such a record produced by it, or


    (b) electronic or other apparatus (including a radar gun) which is not capable of producing a permanent record.


    It is not necessary to prove that the electronic or other apparatus was accurate or in good working order.”,


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    #14
    Wishbone Ash
    Registered Users Posts: 24,995 ✭✭✭✭Wishbone Ash


    kbannon wrote: »
    Not according to the Road Traffic Act 2004
    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2004/en/act/pub/0044/sec0015.html#partii-sec15
    Fair enough - perhaps it used to be the case. Then again, perhaps it was ignorance on the part of the Gardai. I recall having this discussion with a few Garda friends/relatives a few years ago and they use to 'forget' any speed detections for any motorist who requested to see a Certificate of Calibration (as they never had one but perhaps were under the assumption that they should have one).

    I'm reasonably friendly with a Chief Super - I might ask him the next time I see him if the opportunity is right.

    By the way folks, anyone who mentioned a Certificate of Calibration was guaranteed to get an all round inspection of their vehicle. :eek: :D


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    #15
    Steve
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 22,584 CMod ✭✭✭✭Steve


    Wishbone Ash wrote: »
    Isn't the onus on the Gardai to provide a Certificate of Calibration for the speed detector if requested?
    That was changed - they're now allowed convict you with a broken speed detector unless YOU can prove otherwise.
    AudiChris wrote: »
    I always understood the rule was 10%+2mph, but I've nothing to back that up... :o
    There was never a rule - most Guards will use common sense. They also know a Judge will frown on them for bringing a 51 in a 50kph.

    Edit: beaten to it...must stop going for a beer in the middle of writing a post :D


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    #16
    Steve
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 22,584 CMod ✭✭✭✭Steve


    Wishbone Ash wrote: »
    Fair enough - perhaps it used to be the case.

    The '04 act cleared that up - as well as the other loophole that the speed guns couldn't be used unless they gave a print-out of the speed.


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    #17
    -Chris-
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,035 ✭✭✭✭-Chris-


    SteveC wrote: »
    There was never a rule - most Guards will use common sense. They also know a Judge will frown on them for bringing a 51 in a 50kph.

    Sorry, by rule I meant "usual limit of letting you away with it based on Garda discretion". Obviously the rule is the actual prevailing speed limit, but zero tolerance would jam up our court system.

    Not rule, but rule-of-thumb.

    P.S. when I said 10% + 2mph, I realise we've changed to kmph and the Garda discretion will be based on that new, metric speed limit system :rolleyes::D:D


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    #18
    Steve
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 22,584 CMod ✭✭✭✭Steve


    AudiChris wrote: »
    Sorry, by rule I meant "usual limit of letting you away with it based on Garda discretion". Obviously the rule is the actual prevailing speed limit, but zero tolerance would jam up our court system.

    Not rule, but rule-of-thumb.

    P.S. when I said 10% + 2mph, I realise we've changed to kmph and the Garda discretion will be based on that new, metric speed limit system :rolleyes::D:D
    From reading posts made here by Guards (sorry cyclo' - "alleged guards":rolleyes:)... there is no official written rule on this, it's purely discretion. Some say 20kph on a motorway, some say 5kph in a residential area.
    I can't say for sure though.


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    #19
    Steve
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 22,584 CMod ✭✭✭✭Steve


    adrian.s wrote: »
    If I just got one, and it arrived within a few weeks of it happening, I wouldn't be posting here

    I'd just like to add to that. If you had been stopped and given an earful by the guard for speeding, then you wouldn't have got the second ticket.
    This thread only serves to reinforce my opinion that fixed cameras are going to do SFA for road safety.


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