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Alfa Romeo 156 Drives for a few miles then cuts out

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2

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    #32
    NedKelly
    Closed Accounts Posts: 196 ✭✭NedKelly


    got the car diagnosed today by a mate
    and suprise suprise there was no faults showing on the computer ???
    he told me that the lamda sensor was on the bottom of the manifold
    not on the RHS of the bulhead


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    #33
    Darragh29
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,097 ✭✭✭Darragh29


    NedKelly wrote: »
    got the car diagnosed today by a mate
    and suprise suprise there was no faults showing on the computer ???
    he told me that the lamda sensor was on the bottom of the manifold
    not on the RHS of the bulhead

    Do you know what diagnostic's equipment he was using??? Just be careful... If there is a problem, as there clearly is, you should have some fault code or idea what the problem is, even if it is a multi cylinder misfire which doesn't point to a particular sensor or device and requires further investigation, if your man is telling you he has no idea what the problem is, that doesn't sound good...


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    #34
    miju
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 8,486 ✭✭✭miju


    NedKelly wrote: »
    got the car diagnosed today by a mate
    and suprise suprise there was no faults showing on the computer ???

    if your mate can't find a fault (and providing he's adept at fault finding) then your best bet is to give Gerry in TI Autos a call. This guy knows Alfas inside out and has a very good reputation for a reason.

    still say it's the crank sensor though ;)


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    #35
    Darragh29
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,097 ✭✭✭Darragh29


    miju wrote: »
    if your mate can't find a fault (and providing he's adept at fault finding) then your best bet is to give Gerry in TI Autos a call. This guy knows Alfas inside out and has a very good reputation for a reason.

    still say it's the crank sensor though ;)

    A score says its the accelerator position sensor OR the throttle potentiometer thats the problem. This post sounds familar to me! Starting up no probs and cuutting out 2-3 k up the road...


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    #36
    unkel
    Registered Users Posts: 65,442 ✭✭✭✭unkel
    Chauffe, Marcel, chauffe!


    OP, whenever this is sorted, please make sure you get back here and tell us what is was - and announce a winner contributor here if there is one :)

    My ads on adverts.ie

    https://www.adverts.ie/member/5856/ads



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    #37
    Darragh29
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,097 ✭✭✭Darragh29


    unkel wrote: »
    OP, whenever this is sorted, please make sure you get back here and tell us what is was - and announce a winner contributor here if there is one :)

    It could be anything but I'm going on a gut feeling here:

    Accelerator position sensor,

    OR

    Throttle potentiometer...

    Only cos have been here with that symptom on an Alfa 156. Might be wrong, might be right, but as per unkel, please let us know when/if you have a line drawn under the problem...


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    #38
    Mr.Diagnostic
    Registered Users Posts: 937 ✭✭✭Mr.Diagnostic


    NedKelly wrote: »
    got the car diagnosed today by a mate
    and suprise suprise there was no faults showing on the computer ???
    he told me that the lamda sensor was on the bottom of the manifold
    not on the RHS of the bulhead

    This is possibly a bit on the pedantic side but I think its worth mentioning. Your mate didn’t diagnose it. From what you said it sounds like he just did a code read. There is a lot more than that involved in a diagnosis.

    The symptoms you posted are stereotypical crank sensor failure. My guess would be crank sensor too.

    As regards fault codes. On a lot of engine management systems a faulty crank sensor will not cause a code.


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    #39
    rebel.ranter
    Registered Users Posts: 3,570 ✭✭✭rebel.ranter


    Can a crank angle sensor fault be intermittent like that? I would have thought that a faulty crank angle sensor would also cause intermittent starting problems too.


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    #40
    Bluefoam
    Registered Users Posts: 7,740 ✭✭✭Bluefoam


    I really think the car should be brought to a reputable mechanic, it is quite clear that the OP doesn't know how to fix the problem & doesn't have the range of skills to find the cause. This is why there are trained people out there.


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    #41
    Nonoperational
    Registered Users Posts: 7,401 ✭✭✭Nonoperational


    I still say its the crank sensor. Doesn't cause a fault when its failing intermittantly when hot. Doesn't cause a code to be recorded most of the time... just take it to any alfa garage.


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    #42
    NedKelly
    Closed Accounts Posts: 196 ✭✭NedKelly


    Bluefoam wrote: »
    I really think the car should be brought to a reputable mechanic, it is quite clear that the OP doesn't know how to fix the problem & doesn't have the range of skills to find the cause. This is why there are trained people out there.


    EHH i was only asking for advice...
    if it was something as simple as a sensor i can install it myself
    its not difficult im only trying to find out if anyone could help me with
    diagnosing the problem


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    #43
    Nonoperational
    Registered Users Posts: 7,401 ✭✭✭Nonoperational


    You can check the resistence along the crank sensor and that should give you a good idea. Ill try dig up where I saw it and post a link.

    edit: have a look here: http://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/alfa-147-156-and-gt/115244-crank-sensor.html


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    #44
    Darragh29
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,097 ✭✭✭Darragh29


    gpf101 wrote: »
    You can check the resistence along the crank sensor and that should give you a good idea. Ill try dig up where I saw it and post a link.

    edit: have a look here: http://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/alfa-147-156-and-gt/115244-crank-sensor.html

    Jasus... Just get it properly diagnosed, end of problem. Folks here can speculate but nobody is going to get it absolutely right without the proper equipment and knowledge.. My advice above is just based on experience of a similar sounding problem on the same vehicle. Bite the bullet and get it diagnosed!


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    #45
    rebel.ranter
    Registered Users Posts: 3,570 ✭✭✭rebel.ranter


    Darragh29 wrote: »
    Bite the bullet and get it diagnosed!

    I agree.
    I think (or I assume) that most people on here should pursue a dual course of action using this forum as a sounding board to try understand what to expect from the diagnosing mechanic. That's the theory anyway.

    Otherwise we are as bad as the guy using ROAD maps to navigate his way around the coast of UK!! (In a boat!)


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    #46
    Nonoperational
    Registered Users Posts: 7,401 ✭✭✭Nonoperational


    Darragh29 wrote: »
    Jasus... Just get it properly diagnosed, end of problem. Folks here can speculate but nobody is going to get it absolutely right without the proper equipment and knowledge.. My advice above is just based on experience of a similar sounding problem on the same vehicle. Bite the bullet and get it diagnosed!

    The guy obviously wanted a crack at it himself, at least he'll have a few ideas now before going into the mechanic clueless...


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    #47
    alias no.9
    Registered Users Posts: 6,311 ✭✭✭alias no.9


    Darragh29 wrote: »
    A score says its the accelerator position sensor OR the throttle potentiometer thats the problem.

    I'll take that bet. I don't know what it is but I'm pretty certain you're wrong ;).

    edit... I'm basing my claim on information from posts by the OP, can any of the anoraks out there figure it out?


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    #48
    Nonoperational
    Registered Users Posts: 7,401 ✭✭✭Nonoperational


    I'd nearly take it aswell I'm so sure its the crank sensor! Could be wrong though so I'll shut up and not post any more no this thread at the risk of sounding like a (potentially very wrong) broken record!


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    #49
    Darragh29
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,097 ✭✭✭Darragh29


    gpf101 wrote: »
    The guy obviously wanted a crack at it himself, at least he'll have a few ideas now before going into the mechanic clueless...

    Believe me there is nothing worse than the customer who comes in talking sh*te about something he read somewhere!!! This is obviously not directed at the OP, but my view on this is that if he knows what the problem is, he can fix it himself, alternatively pass the problem to a professional and trust them to resolve it. That is afterall what your paying for! Filling his head full of baseless info and pure speculation is only going to give the person who ultimately resolves his problem an even bigger headache! Just talkin from experience! :o:o:o


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    #50
    Nonoperational
    Registered Users Posts: 7,401 ✭✭✭Nonoperational


    Darragh29 wrote: »
    Believe me there is nothing worse than the customer who comes in talking sh*te about something he read somewhere!!! This is obviously not directed at the OP, but my view on this is that if he knows what the problem is, he can fix it himself, alternatively pass the problem to a professional and trust them to resolve it. That is afterall what your paying for! Filling his head full of baseless info and pure speculation is only going to give the person who ultimately resolves his problem an even bigger headache! Just talkin from experience! :o:o:o

    I actually find it quite useful if someone has an eductated idea on what the problem might be. Especially on cars like the 156 which are not that common and some people wouldnt be very familiar with them if they didnt work on a lot of them. As for baseless info... well the amount of throttle position sensor failures vs the amount of crank sensor failures tells its own story. Crank sensor is quite a common problem and almost always presents in the EXACT was the OP described while throttle position sensor is quite rare and rarely presents in the way the OP describes!

    I see where your coming from but he asked for any ideas in the first place! Its a motors forum, no point in replying with no ideas! He can take them or leave them just my ideas. As I said could be totally off the mark!


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    #51
    Darragh29
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,097 ✭✭✭Darragh29


    gpf101 wrote: »
    I actually find it quite useful if someone has an eductated idea on what the problem might be. Especially on cars like the 156 which are not that common and some people wouldnt be very familiar with them if they didnt work on a lot of them. As for baseless info... well the amount of throttle position sensor failures vs the amount of crank sensor failures tells its own story. Crank sensor is quite a common problem and almost always presents in the EXACT was the OP described while throttle position sensor is quite rare and rarely presents in the way the OP describes!

    I hope you don't approach customers cars with that statistical approach! What the OP described to me was a verbatim replica complaint that I've handled recently and no amount of crank position sensors would have resolved the issue! Any information here is baseless (mine included!), because it is speculation not based on any fact or understanding of the problem, only a casual explanation of the symptom...

    There is nothing worse than trying to do a good job for a customer and them coming back at you with, "are you sure that's the actual problem, because so and so said it was most likely to be comething completely different???" And you can see it in their face that they are now thinking that you are trying to rip them off, because what you are telling them cannot be reconciled by some remark that someone else has made on the problem... Very very very frustrating...


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    #52
    Nonoperational
    Registered Users Posts: 7,401 ✭✭✭Nonoperational


    Ya your right about too much interfering alright. I actually agree with you about going to a garage and getting it diagnosed properely etc. Just think there's probably a place too for trying to get some advice here, especially for an alfa thats relatively uncommon.
    I'm not a mechanic sorry if I gave that impression (so my advice is certainly not to be taken as having as much weight as yours) although I do deal with customers every day in my work! The "internet" can give just about any advice you want and at times it drives me mad too. Just giving my 2 cents from hours a day of reading alfa forums and doing a bit on my own 156 etc. I wouldnt suggest not going to a garage for one minute by the way either. Its the way to go.


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    #53
    Darragh29
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,097 ✭✭✭Darragh29


    gpf101 wrote: »
    Ya your right about too much interfering alright. I actually agree with you about going to a garage and getting it diagnosed properely etc. Just think there's probably a place too for trying to get some advice here, especially for an alfa thats relatively uncommon.
    I'm not a mechanic sorry if I gave that impression (so my advice is certainly not to be taken as having as much weight as yours) although I do deal with customers every day in my work! The "internet" can give just about any advice you want and at times it drives me mad too. Just giving my 2 cents from hours a day of reading alfa forums and doing a bit on my own 156 etc. I wouldnt suggest not going to a garage for one minute by the way either. Its the way to go.

    Yeah I see where you are coming from. It never fails to amaze me how much people seem to think they know when they are dealing with a garage, especially guys, it's like this other personality takes over and suddenly they know it all, if their gf is with them, they are ten times worse. I have to struggle to stop myself saying, "If you have all the answers, then please tell me why the fu*k you are here!?!?!" Half of my job is diagnosing & rectifying problems with cars, the other half of my job is trying to convince an increasingly cynical customer that I'm actually being honest with them and what I'm telling them (even though it might often completely contradict what someone else has told them), is 100% accurate and more importantly, 100% honest. Honestly, I know some people on here probably think I'm over the top in a lot of my posts, but I get so sick of self righteous know it alls in my place, I'm actually right now looking to change my career path and I say this seriously...


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    #54
    Nonoperational
    Registered Users Posts: 7,401 ✭✭✭Nonoperational


    Really? Is it that bad? I'd be the kind of guy that'd go to a garage and say x is happening and I think it might be Y and then leave it at that. I'd trust a diagnosis. Only thing I ask is the ring me first is its expensive! Speaking of problems Im stumped at one on my own at the moment. When Im on steady throttle say when cruising in 5th or coming off the throttle I'm getting a slight stitter. Changed the plugs today but its still hapening. Sounds a bit like an overrun kind of thing so was thinking maybe throttle position sensor. Its a messy one to take to the garage because it only happens at times and to be honest its not very noticable. But its one of those things thats wrecking my head!


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    #55
    Darragh29
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,097 ✭✭✭Darragh29


    Yeah, don't get me wrong, there are loads of decent people out there who accept what you tell them and respect your advice. I call it the 80-20 Garage rule. 20% of people take up 80% of your time, and 80% of the people are sound decent people you enjoy doing business with and they take up 20% of your time. I know I'm way off topic at this stage on this one so I'll leave it lie now!


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    #56
    miju
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 8,486 ✭✭✭miju


    so did the OP get the car to a garage and if so what was the fault?


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    #57
    NedKelly
    Closed Accounts Posts: 196 ✭✭NedKelly


    not yet !! tomorrow !


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    #58
    Nonoperational
    Registered Users Posts: 7,401 ✭✭✭Nonoperational


    any update?


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    #59
    Darragh29
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,097 ✭✭✭Darragh29


    Well, are we any the wiser?!?


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    #60
    NedKelly
    Closed Accounts Posts: 196 ✭✭NedKelly


    Crank Sensor

    bought one and fitted it and its perfect
    thanks for the advice lads


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    #61
    Mr.Diagnostic
    Registered Users Posts: 937 ✭✭✭Mr.Diagnostic


    Darragh29 wrote: »
    Well, are we any the wiser?!?

    :):) Dunno about wiser but you are a score poorer :):)


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