Is it legal for someone to take a dog off their land and kill it?

Huff

My dog went on to a neighbours land two days ago. They keep horses and when my dad looked down they had put a rope on the dog and were leading him away. The dog was simply watching them unload the horses, not barking or acting aggressively. My dad called the dog but the lady ignored him and kept on walking. They then took our dog to their home several miles away and killed him. We are naturally very upset as he was a much loved family pet and would like to know if what they did was illegal?

shaz00

OMG dat is unbelieveable, I hope ye called the guards and reported your neighbour! Im almost positive you would have some rights and especially if your dog did not cause any harm to the animals. I know someone who had a dog shot because it killed a neighbours sheep, guards were called and said that because the dog had killed and had been off its lead with no supervision they had no case against the neighbour.

I absoluately disgusted to hear that your neighbour done dat, I would be livid it dat was my dog and would definetely be reporting them by all means.

I am a major pet lover have two dogs ourselves and genuine feel for your loss.

luckat

Really sorry to hear about this. You could report them for stealing your dog, I suppose, and for animal cruelty.

Considering that you were present and calling your dog, I can't see that they were justified in taking it away. They'll say that you should have had your dog on a lead, but they went way, way over the top.

Our man in Havana

If the dog was on their land - yes they have the right to kill any dog that may worry the animals.

Dave147

If someone did this to my labrador, I would simply lose it. I would treat it as if they killed a member of my family, which he is, and probably break into the house and at the very least beat the utter ****e out of them with a baseball bat.

I am completely serious, but I think YOU should probably call the guards, I'm really sorry about your dog..

KhuntChops

Im very sorry to hear about what has happened to your dog,im shocked to be honest..... The fact that the neighbours went out of there way to take the dog home to kill it makes me sick,what kind of people are they?? Surely for that reason alone you have some sort of chase against these cruel people. Altho I am slightly confused as to why your father didnt follow your neighbours and ask them why on earth they were tryin to take your dog away???? I no if I saw anyone even attempting to take one of mine I would lose my mind and run after them even if they were in a car...

steph1

I am so very sorry to hear about the loss of your pet dog in such circumstances. I dont know what I would do if somebody did that to my dog.

Also I was wondering why your father did not follow them and try to stop them taking the dog away. Poor thing. This is just way over the top. Definitely this incident should be reported to the gardai.

I dont agree with any dog worrying sheep, cattle etc., but the dog appears to have just wandered onto the land. Its so unfortunate that the poor thing was in the wrong place at that time. :mad:

worried shooter

Actually, I doubt they can take the dog elsewhere to be shot, I think it has to be shot on sight where it stands. Shooting is an immediate remedy to the problem. If they detain the dog it should be handed over to the Gardaí.

minxie

what a terrible thing to happen...
have a dog myself and would be devastated beyond belief.
surely what they did was intentional, if they were leading it away like that, ring the guards about this and see where you stand,
this cant be right what they did, i know if animals were being scared etc farmers do have the right to shoot the animal, but this just sounds very wrong.....

brianthebard

If they havent reported it to you and the guards within 48hrs you should call the guards.Although it was quite malicous of them to do it like that,they were probably working within the law.Had the dog ever wandered into their land before?

mikemac

Did a quick search and got the Dogs (Protection of Livestock Act 1960)

This may have been superseded, I'm no legal eagle

Seems to me that the garda should be called and the dog would be detained.
The dog could only be shot on the spot and while in the act of killing or worrying the livestock.
If they had a gun with them the dog could/should of been shot no matter how harmless you think it is.

4. —In an action for damages for the shooting of a dog, it shall be a good defence if the defendant proves—
[GA]
( a ) that the dog was shot when worrying livestock on agricultural land,
[GA]
( b ) that the livestock were lawfully on the land,
[GA]

3. —(1) Where in the case of a dog found on agricultural land—
[GA]
( a ) the dog has been worrying livestock on the land, and
[GA]
( b ) no person is present who admits to being the owner of the dog or in charge of it,
[GA]
a member of the Gárda Síochána may seize the dog, and thereupon the provisions of sections 3 and 9 of the Dogs Act, 1906, in relation to seized stray dogs shall apply.

jhegarty

I searched http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/ and there doesn't seem to be anything more up to date

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1960/en/act/pub/0017/print.html wrote:

(2) Where in the cue of a dog found on agricultural land when worrying livestock lawfully on the land no person is present who admits to being the owner of the dog or in charge of it, the finder may seize the dog and deliver it to a member of the Gárda Síochána at the nearest Gárda Síochána station, and thereupon the provisions of sections 3 and 9 of the Dogs Act, 1906, in relation to seized stray dogs shall apply.

This bit makes it quite clear they can only seize the dog to turn it over the guards...

report them to the guards, ispca and anything else who will listen...

arybvtcw0eolkf

The fact that this woman calmly took your dog away with the sole aim of murdering it makes me sick.

How could someone be so sick, cold & evil to lead an animal to its premeditated murder?.. Its fills me with a blinding rage.

That woman is a monster.

MissyN

Not to be rude to anyone who has replied to this but I think huff is having us on here. I don't think this is true at all. Why would the dad watch someone take the family dog away??!! I'd be over there getting my dog back pronto.

minxie

MissyN wrote: »

Not to be rude to anyone who has replied to this but I think huff is having us on here. I don't think this is true at all. Why would the dad watch someone take the family dog away??!! I'd be over there getting my dog back pronto.

he wouldnt would he??

Sharpshooter

Huff wrote: »

My dog went on to a neighbours land two days ago. They keep horses and when my dad looked down they had put a rope on the dog and were leading him away. The dog was simply watching them unload the horses, not barking or acting aggressively. My dad called the dog but the lady ignored him and kept on walking. They then took our dog to their home several miles away and killed him. We are naturally very upset as he was a much loved family pet and would like to know if what they did was illegal?

Huff , can I ask if your dad is in a wheelchair or otherwise disabled ? as I am confused as to why he would just call your dog and not run after this lady.
Has he no mobile phone? I would have called the Guards immediately , if she had to take the dog several miles away the police would have called to her address and been there waiting for her.You don't say if there were any witness's or even where the dog's body was found.
If she killed your dog on her land there would be blood or evidence of some kind.

BlackCat2008

Have to agree with most post on this even if your dad did try and didn't have a car to follow, how do you know the dog is dead ?

Did they return the body or was it just found ?

For all you know now he could have been handed over to the guards and has been pts because no one has calmed him ?

Your story doesn't make sense to me, I'm not saying it's not true just that it seems to be missing a lot of detail can you give more detail ?

Our man in Havana

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1986/en/act/pub/0032/sec0023.html#zza32y1986s23

Defence in action for damages for shooting dog.

23.—(1) It shall be a defence to any action for damages against a person for the shooting of a dog, or to any charge arising out of the shooting of a dog, if the defendant proves that—

( a ) the dog was shot when it was worrying, or was about to worry, livestock and that there were no other reasonable means of ending or preventing the worrying; or

( b ) (i) the dog was a stray dog which was in the vicinity of a place where livestock had been injured or killed, and

(ii) the defendant reasonably believed that the dog had been involved in the injury or killing, and

(iii) there were no practicable means of seizing the dog or ascertaining to whom it belonged; and

( c ) he was the person in charge of the livestock; and


( d ) he notified within forty-eight hours the member in charge at the nearest Garda Station to the place where the dog was shot of the incident.


(2) The provisions of subsection (1) (a) and subsection (1) (b) (i) and (iii) of this section shall be deemed to have been satisfied if the defendant believed that those provisions had been satisfied and he had reasonable grounds for that belief.

Huff

Thank you to those of you who gave the legal advice. I think it's really horrible that some of you questioned what my story, I have better things to be doing with my time thanks. My dad saw them in the distance two fields away and was not a hundred percent sure that it was Jake. They had to pass our home to drive home so he thought when she ignored him calling the dog that they were bringing him back up to our house in their jeep but they didn't. They took our dog twice before for simply being on the land and took him to their home and locked him in a shed. My dad tried giving out to them about taking our dog for no reason but they would not listen. He did not chase the horses or harm them in any way, he was just watching them. The horses used to actually whinny across the fields for the dog to come over to them. The last time when my dad went down to their house to get Jake, the man has a really bad temper and actually went to hit my dad the last time he called down so that is why my dad was afraid to go down. He asked my sister to call their house and try to reason with them. When she rang his wife denied having the dog until my sister said my dad saw her with a dog. Then she said 'Yes we took him and we killed him'. Then the next morning my dad, myself and my husband called down to their house to get Jake's body to bury him. The woman would not tell us where he was, after asking her many times she eventually said her husband (by the way believe it or not he is a vet!!!) took him to an animal burnhouse so we left very upset. So I rang the burnhouse but they had no record of it although they said they don't keep records of dogs. I then rang the local a.s.p.c.a and they told me that unfortunately they were within their rights. I then rang the local Garda and told him the story. On the phone, he was very sympathetic and said that no he certainly was not within his rights to take him off the land and kill him. He told me he was calling down to their house last night and would call in to my parents on the way back. So he called in after visiting them and it turns out he's actually good friends with this man, they're in some club together and all he really said to my parents was that 'it was a bit extreme alright'. So that is the full story, feeling really annoyed and upset. Please don't post anymore nasty comments, you don't know how heartbreaking this has been for us. Also a few months ago, my dad noticed one of their horses seemed to be unable to stand up down in the field so he rang the man to tell him. He said he had not seen them in over a week and when he checked on them it turned out that the horse was caught up in barbed wire so he thanked my dad for saving the horses life. We get on very well with everyone around us and have never fallen out with anyone before. These people are new to the area and are steadily making a lot of enemies for themselves. I just hope karma gets these evil b*****ds.We just want to keep well away from them.

minxie

Huff wrote: »

Thank you to those of you who gave the legal advice. I think it's really horrible that some of you questioned what my story, I have better things to be doing with my time thanks. My dad saw them in the distance two fields away and was not a hundred percent sure that it was Jake. They had to pass our home to drive home so he thought when she ignored him calling the dog that they were bringing him back up to our house in their jeep but they didn't. They took our dog twice before for simply being on the land and took him to their home and locked him in a shed. My dad tried giving out to them about taking our dog for no reason but they would not listen. He did not chase the horses or harm them in any way, he was just watching them. The horses used to actually whinny across the fields for the dog to come over to them. The last time when my dad went down to their house to get Jake, the man has a really bad temper and actually went to hit my dad the last time he called down so that is why my dad was afraid to go down. He asked my sister to call their house and try to reason with them. When she rang his wife denied having the dog until my sister said my dad saw her with a dog. Then she said 'Yes we took him and we killed him'. Then the next morning my dad, myself and my husband called down to their house to get Jake's body to bury him. The woman would not tell us where he was, after asking her many times she eventually said her husband (by the way believe it or not he is a vet!!!) took him to an animal burnhouse so we left very upset. So I rang the burnhouse but they had no record of it although they said they don't keep records of dogs. I then rang the local a.s.p.c.a and they told me that unfortunately they were within their rights. I then rang the local Garda and told him the story. On the phone, he was very sympathetic and said that no he certainly was not within his rights to take him off the land and kill him. He told me he was calling down to their house last night and would call in to my parents on the way back. So he called in after visiting them and it turns out he's actually good friends with this man, they're in some club together and all he really said to my parents was that 'it was a bit extreme alright'. So that is the full story, feeling really annoyed and upset. Please don't post anymore nasty comments, you don't know how heartbreaking this has been for us. Also a few months ago, my dad noticed one of their horses seemed to be unable to stand up down in the field so he rang the man to tell him. He said he had not seen them in over a week and when he checked on them it turned out that the horse was caught up in barbed wire so he thanked my dad for saving the horses life. We get on very well with everyone around us and have never fallen out with anyone before. These people are new to the area and are steadily making a lot of enemies for themselves. I just hope karma gets these evil b*****ds.We just want to keep well away from them.

well said....

Our man in Havana

Take the matter higher up the Garda food chain. Try the ombudsman.

Sharpshooter

Huff wrote: »

I then rang the local Garda and told him the story. On the phone, he was very sympathetic and said that no he certainly was not within his rights to take him off the land and kill him. He told me he was calling down to their house last night and would call in to my parents on the way back. So he called in after visiting them and it turns out he's actually good friends with this man, they're in some club together and all he really said to my parents was that 'it was a bit extreme alright'. So that is the full story, feeling really annoyed and upset.

My God that is disgraceful , could your dad maybe speak to another Garda that has no connection to this person.
The Garda have a responsibility to the public and from what you say , this particular Gardas attitude seemed to change when he realised he knew this man.
I would chance it or maybe ask the local paper to look into it as a human interest story as this has badly affected your family.
So so sorry for what happened and please if you do follow up on it will you let us know what happened.

LadyTBolt

OP maybe you should visit a solicitor who could explain this section of the law and your entitlement to damages, if any. What these people did was very wrong indeed. I don't think I personally would just let them get away with it without a fight. I would visit a solicitor to see if I could take this further. Our dogs are a big part of our family and if anybody harmed them I would not take it lying down. I don't understand how these people could rear animals and then take an innocent dog home, in their car, kill him, bury him and believe their actions are justified. It just seems a a bit whacky to me! Good luck to you and your family resolving this with the neighbours.

mary123

R.I.P poor doggy.

BlackCat2008

I'm sorry for your loss, it is always heart breaking to loss a pet and in this case you may stand a chance to at lease getting damages, but I don't think many Judges will be sympathetic with you's as you's were warned twice not to let the dog on there land, dogs worrying live stock has all ways been a problem and farmers have long let this been known by shooting them and in your case you's got two warnings to keep the dog on your property. I don't understand why you's let the dog back on the property, even if the horses were calling the dog to come and play, you's should have put him on a lead and brought him down to see them that way. You'd be better of getting in contact with the Chief of police for your area and putting your case to him.

Any way I hope you get your damages and the horse owner gets whats coming.

Morganna

That is awful i would get this in the papers .I would also do something about the guarda they re nearly all crooks.I feel so sorry for you and your dad and the poor dog the evil B......s.What goes around comes around Karma .

doctor evil

No offence OP but after the first instance of the dog roaming onto someone else's land you should have taken steps to ensure it would not have happened again (either fence in if property is small or build a run). Those radio collars are meant to be very good.

The Sweeper

Huff,

What sort of dog did you have? It sounds like your neighbours are a bit mad in the head tbh - but if the chap's a vet, I'd be very surprised that he'd put down a perfectly healthy dog.

I don't know if you could find any comfort at all in this, but I wouldn't be surprised if Jake isn't dead at all, but your neighbours have taken him away from you and the vet has given him to someone to rehome, because they don't believe you're looking after him because you keep letting him wander. That would explain the reflexive and rather crap lie "Oh we had him incinerated" or whatever it was they said. You stop looking for the dog if you think it's dead.

Sounds horrible, I know, but wandering dogs are a huge, HUGE problem in rural areas.

We have a new nextdoor neighbour down here in Oz, moved in about six weeks ago. When they arrived, they had a tiny brown dog, quite young, looked all the world like a jackal. They couldn't keep him on their property. (In fact, they didn't try.) He came onto our property nearly daily for a week, and at the end of that week got into the chicken pen and had one of the chickens by the neck. My other neighbour spotted him and lobbed a stone at him so the chicken survived. The stone-lobbing neighbour has a lot of free-ranging birds - chickens, guinea fowl, a peacock - and called around to the new neighbour to explain that if their dog got out again, he'd shoot it. End of.

The same stone-lobbing neighbour had a similar conversation with my mother in law when she moved here first, and her jack russell mix kept escaping. The dog actually managed one day to invade a property a few acres up from us, where it killed a kitten. The stone-lobbing neighbour had a very stern conversation with my mother in law, and she chicken-wired an entire half-acre to keep the dogs in as a result.

worried shooter

worried shooter wrote: »

Actually, I doubt they can take the dog elsewhere to be shot, I think it has to be shot on sight where it stands. Shooting is an immediate remedy to the problem. If they detain the dog it should be handed over to the Gardaí.

This is the crux of it, the dog was not dangerous as it was detained safely.
They took matters into their own hands ILLEGALLY. From their view point if it was trouble they should have alerted the dog warden to your dog roaming.

Instead they shot your dog.

Alert the Gardai, have the firearm licence revoked. Alert the ombudsman if the Gardai are no help. Its also cruelty.

DO NOT LET THEM AWAY WITH THIS, let us know how you get on. They are scum

Sharpshooter

BlackCat2008 wrote: »

Have to agree with most post on this even if your dad did try and didn't have a car to follow, how do you know the dog is dead ?

Did they return the body or was it just found ?

For all you know now he could have been handed over to the guards and has been pts because no one has calmed him ?

Your story doesn't make sense to me, I'm not saying it's not true just that it seems to be missing a lot of detail can you give more detail ?

It was not that the OPs post didn't make sense to me but I found a lot of detail missing and wanted to know more.
I Hate any cruelty to any animal and was trying to get the full picture .
I hate to think about your Dog , and the sub humans that took Jake away from you because it is upsetting to me when it comes to animals in pain or distress.
I am so sorry for you and your family's pain and I hope that you get a proper explanation from the Guards regarding everything that happened.

KJ_2008

Huff, my heart goes out to you on this, if I was in your position I'd probably be starting a lengthy sentence in Mountjoy by now.

Please don't give up on this, unless they're utter savages there's a chance they haven't killed your dog at all - as another poster said it's possible they gave him away, or maybe they're just trying to make a point by hiding him away for a few days?

I would go down every avenue possible on this, whether it be finding another Garda (preferably not a friend of that family), going to a solicitor or, as some have suggested, going to the press. Honest, I'd chance contacting the Sunday World or somewhere similar (local papers after that), I'd guess the last thing that shower would want is a hack or two or their doorstep.

Keep going until you get the truth out of them. Even consider going to a local TD/Councillor for support and/or advice - they might even push for the local Gardai to follow this up, especially if they think the press will get involved.

This lot are the scum of the earth, by the sounds of them, I pity you having to live near them. As others have said you might well have been in the wrong allowing your dog roam free, so he could go on their land, but their response has been incredible. I wish you all the very best dealing with them, please don't give up.