mayhem in johns street

ex_infantry man

decies wrote: »

I think its time the word traveler was removed as a means of identifing a certain type of community.
Let them be integrated into a more normal society ,if that is not acceptable they should be forced to obey the rules of society if not lock them up.
Feuding families my *&^% common thugs more like it :mad::mad::mad:

+1 here here!!!!!

Sully

Typhoon. wrote: »

Thats my point....the judges are more likely to sentance ya for no TV licence

My bad, I thought you were aiming more at the Gardai! It is true what you say, shame really.

dlofnep wrote: »

Well, that's down to Irish law. There is a specific range of time with which someone can do for whatever crime they commit. But I assure you, any of these if caught won't be doing short time. Firing shotguns, slamming into a car with intent to do harm or kill, etc etc...

The real problem here Sully didn't just start over the past few months, but has always been a problem. The Gardaí have always been hesitant to interfere in the traveling communities affairs. The general reason for this is the amount of Gardaí that is required in order to enter a site, and apprehend someone for a crime. And typically, they feel that it's just not worth the hassle.

So what happens is that Travelers get away with minor crimes here and there, which in turn over the year creates a bubble around them. They feel that they are above the law and can get away with anything they want. This includes parking up on the sides of roads and having to be PAID to leave. Which I find disgusting. This in turn also means that when something goes down, Travelers just don't care about the Gardaí and really don't worry about them. They don't respect the law, so they will continue to act like this.

This is the real problem. Not the amount of time courts give to people.

So what do we do? Nothing we can do, and I'll tell you why.

If travelers are arrested with the excessive force that's required to apprehend them, then they will claim that they are being singled out because they are travelers and will make some sort of equality dispute. it's the politically correct world we live in, and that's something we're going to have to deal with.

I would like to see real EQUALITY. So when a traveling convoy parks up on the side of the road, law allows them to be removed within 24 hours - with force if necessary. If a traveler breaks any law, then they should be subjected to the same treated as a settled person. If that involves large scale Gardaí movement in order to apprehend Travelers for crimes, with which they would normally let them off with because of the hassle involved - Then so be it.

We need to all wake up to the reality of what's really happening it.

I completely agree where your coming from. They can be a dangerous group to mess with, so unless they are going to secure a conviction they will only go in meaing business then. Otherwise, its not worth the hassle it causes.

Yes they will dispute it etc. but our courts and laws should be able to see through what really is a genuine case and what really is taking the mick.

Even non-traveller familys that cause disputes get away with the same crap travellers do. These people are not afraid of the law, because they will get away with it.

decies wrote: »

I think its time the word traveler was removed as a means of identifing a certain type of community.
Let them be integrated into a more normal society ,if that is not acceptable they should be forced to obey the rules of society if not lock them up.
Feuding families my *&^% common thugs more like it :mad::mad::mad:

Well to be absoutely fair, there are plenty of hard working and decent travellers out there. Even the Guards have no problem saying it. We also have settled travellers. There is a very bad batch, but there not all that bad. Plus, if they want to live in a caravan they should be allowed do so as long as they have a space which they will respect (which isnt being done).

Sully

Tellox wrote: »

This problem should've been nipped in the bud weeks ago. It's gone from a few scattered arson attacks and a big traveller debt to absolute insanity. It's literally gone so far that I doubt the law can do anything about it.

One night, two wrecked cars, two suicides, arson in kilcohan, and a paddywagon full of bullets.. when things get this bad, there's extremely little the law can do.

There different familes, different feuds (so it seems). Also the Paddy Wagon wasnt shot at (according to another poster). To be fair, the Guards were out in force before Spraoi. Armed checkpoints on the bridge, coming from Dublin and coming from Wexford direction. Pulling over every dodgy looking car.

Spraoi came and everything went back to normal. Hell has broken loose again, and the same secure feel we had before Spraoi has now gone.

At the minimal, the Gardaí need to be armed - at least then they couldve killed the guys last night and made an example out of them.

I doubt even if the Gardai were armed would they kill someone for that type of incident. That crazy ****e we DONT want. Having the Gardai armed - im not sure I like that idea or not. We have armed guards, ERUs and detectives (which are always armed). Non armed Gardai has not been a problem for years, and its still not a problem that needs immediate action imo.

Junior

I think in this situation the cops are damned either way. If they sit outside the houses or halting sites and blanket the ciddy in checkpoints they are being heavy handed, and if they don't have checkpoints they aren't doing anything.

echosound

Sully wrote: »

if they want to live in a caravan they should be allowed do so as long as they have a space which they will respect (which isnt being done).

If they want to live in a caravan, then do as the rest of society does if they fancy a bit of caravan living - pay to rent or buy a site upon which to place said caravan. If I want to live in a caravan and travel about, I would expect to pay for rental of a bay in any of the numerous caravan sites around Ireland, rather than aggressively take over a children's playing field, or the carpark of a community hall or church, or park up on grass verges at the side of the road, and refuse to move on, all the while making sure there will be a huge bill to pay for cleanup operations after I do eventually move on.

I'm sorry but all this PC malarky about pandering and providing sites etc - at expense to the taxpayer - because they're a so called minority group is BS. The sooner courts, cops, politicians and society in general stops being so afraid to call it like it is and actually do something about the current situation the better. Everyone seems to be in a paralysis of fear about any serious attempt to sort it out for fear of getting hit over the head with the "Oh Noes! discrimination" stick.

Well, when does it get serious enough to warrant serious and open debate without the fear of being branded discriminatory - when more travellers end up dead either by their own hand or being murdered by various warring factions? When a child gets fatally wounded in the crossfire? When a member of the general population gets injured or killed? When the wrong house is targeted and an innocent family die in a blaze? When the hospital is on permanent lockdown? What will it take before people can openly discuss a resolution without shrieks of outrage rising from certain quarters...

decies

echosound wrote: »

If they want to live in a caravan, then do as the rest of society does if they fancy a bit of caravan living - pay to rent or buy a site upon which to place said caravan. If I want to live in a caravan and travel about, I would expect to pay for rental of a bay in any of the numerous caravan sites around Ireland, rather than aggressively take over a children's playing field, or the carpark of a community hall or church, or park up on grass verges at the side of the road, and refuse to move on, all the while making sure there will be a huge bill to pay for cleanup operations after I do eventually move on.

I'm sorry but all this PC malarky about pandering and providing sites etc - at expense to the taxpayer - because they're a so called minority group is BS. The sooner courts, cops, politicians and society in general stops being so afraid to call it like it is and actually do something about the current situation the better. Everyone seems to be in a paralysis of fear about any serious attempt to sort it out for fear of getting hit over the head with the "Oh Noes! discrimination" stick.

Well, when does it get serious enough to warrant serious and open debate without the fear of being branded discriminatory - when more travellers end up dead either by their own hand or being murdered by various warring factions? When a child gets fatally wounded in the crossfire? When a member of the general population gets injured or killed? When the wrong house is targeted and an innocent family die in a blaze? When the hospital is on permanent lockdown? What will it take before people can openly discuss a resolution without shrieks of outrage rising from certain quarters...

Think you have covered all the bases there well done.Its not rocket science it just needs a bit of balls by society to say enough is enough,do we really want Waterfords name to be dragged into the gutter,its time to stand up and be counted.

magick

echosound wrote: »

If they want to live in a caravan, then do as the rest of society does if they fancy a bit of caravan living - pay to rent or buy a site upon which to place said caravan. If I want to live in a caravan and travel about, I would expect to pay for rental of a bay in any of the numerous caravan sites around Ireland, rather than aggressively take over a children's playing field, or the carpark of a community hall or church, or park up on grass verges at the side of the road, and refuse to move on, all the while making sure there will be a huge bill to pay for cleanup operations after I do eventually move on.

I'm sorry but all this PC malarky about pandering and providing sites etc - at expense to the taxpayer - because they're a so called minority group is BS. The sooner courts, cops, politicians and society in general stops being so afraid to call it like it is and actually do something about the current situation the better. Everyone seems to be in a paralysis of fear about any serious attempt to sort it out for fear of getting hit over the head with the "Oh Noes! discrimination" stick.

Well, when does it get serious enough to warrant serious and open debate without the fear of being branded discriminatory - when more travellers end up dead either by their own hand or being murdered by various warring factions? When a child gets fatally wounded in the crossfire? When a member of the general population gets injured or killed? When the wrong house is targeted and an innocent family die in a blaze? When the hospital is on permanent lockdown? What will it take before people can openly discuss a resolution without shrieks of outrage rising from certain quarters...

if i agreed with this statement much more id probably burst into flames, absolutely spot on!

Sully

echosound wrote: »

If they want to live in a caravan, then do as the rest of society does if they fancy a bit of caravan living - pay to rent or buy a site upon which to place said caravan. If I want to live in a caravan and travel about, I would expect to pay for rental of a bay in any of the numerous caravan sites around Ireland, rather than aggressively take over a children's playing field, or the carpark of a community hall or church, or park up on grass verges at the side of the road, and refuse to move on, all the while making sure there will be a huge bill to pay for cleanup operations after I do eventually move on.

To be fair, you could play the same attitude with people needing council houses and rent allowence for those short of cash. We help them out but wont help travellers.

In this case, we have people who want to live in a caravan. A large group of people. Sites should be provided for them to live in just like we provide houses for those short in cash etc. At the moment, nobody will. They treat them as outsiders. This is why they take over side verges etc. Sure the crowd in Kilbarry complained they hadnt enough room and the council wouldnt help them.

I'm sorry but all this PC malarky about pandering and providing sites etc - at expense to the taxpayer - because they're a so called minority group is BS. The sooner courts, cops, politicians and society in general stops being so afraid to call it like it is and actually do something about the current situation the better. Everyone seems to be in a paralysis of fear about any serious attempt to sort it out for fear of getting hit over the head with the "Oh Noes! discrimination" stick.

Well in that case we should scrap council houses. A lot of estates with council houses are not the best, and attract anti social behaviour. These people are not travellers either and they have no regard for the law. In this case, courts, cops, politicians and society in general stops being so afraid to call it like it is and actually do something about the current situation the better. We have to pay for the clean up, and to sort them out.

Now, for those travellers who are anti social and create an absolute mess after they leave - they to should be sorted out just like the other non-travellers should be. But people are to scared cause traveller groups jump in to save the day - even if they shouldnt.

Well, when does it get serious enough to warrant serious and open debate without the fear of being branded discriminatory - when more travellers end up dead either by their own hand or being murdered by various warring factions? When a child gets fatally wounded in the crossfire? When a member of the general population gets injured or killed? When the wrong house is targeted and an innocent family die in a blaze? When the hospital is on permanent lockdown? What will it take before people can openly discuss a resolution without shrieks of outrage rising from certain quarters...

This kinda ****e is happening around the world and there not travellers. Look at Limerick for god sake. There not traveller familes causing hassle. People are being shot by accident etc. Kids being burnt alive etc.

All im saying is people need to cop the **** on laying all the blame with EVERY traveller. It cant be denied there is a very large bunch causing havock, but there is a lot that dont. Lets not brand everyone with the same stick eh. Remember - travellers cause just as much trouble as your general scumbag/low life druggy or general non-traveller knob head.

flyingoutside

Sully wrote: »

In this case, we have people who want to live in a caravan. A large group of people. Sites should be provided for them to live in just like we provide houses for those short in cash etc. At the moment, nobody will. They treat them as outsiders. This is why they take over side verges etc. Sure the crowd in Kilbarry complained they hadnt enough room and the council wouldnt help them.

The Council built houses for them on the halting site a few years back and what happened? The travelers stripped them down and tried to sell every part of them. There was travelers calling to my house trying to sell Cinder blocks every day. You can only people so much when they keep throwing it in your face.

Sully wrote: »

Well in that case we should scrap council houses. A lot of estates with council houses are not the best, and attract anti social behaviour. These people are not travellers either and they have no regard for the law. In this case, courts, cops, politicians and society in general stops being so afraid to call it like it is and actually do something about the current situation the better. We have to pay for the clean up, and to sort them out.

I take it from this that you don't live in a council estate. Anti-social behaviour is not something that just pops up in council estates you just here about it more. I also take offense that council estates "attract" anti-social behaveour. Do private estates live in a crime free space?

Sully wrote: »

Now, for those travellers who are anti social and create an absolute mess after they leave - they to should be sorted out just like the other non-travellers should be. But people are to scared cause traveller groups jump in to save the day - even if they shouldnt.

One thing you say i agree with, people should stop being so PC.

Sully

flyingoutside wrote: »

The Council built houses for them on the halting site a few years back and what happened? The travelers stripped them down and tried to sell every part of them. There was travelers calling to my house trying to sell Cinder blocks every day. You can only people so much when they keep throwing it in your face.

Again, do ALL the travellers do it? Id kick out the feckers who do it and try keep those who respect the site in. I see your point though.

I take it from this that you don't live in a council estate. Anti-social behaviour is not something that just pops up in council estates you just here about it more. I also take offense that council estates "attract" anti-social behaveour. Do private estates live in a crime free space?

Nope, live in a very old housing estate. I made a balls of my earlier comment, I dont think every council estate attracts anti social behaviour. My apologises for that remark, it was out of order - iv no idea why I said it.

However, I think that these type of estates have more trouble then private estates. Not all of them of course, but I think that they do have a level of anti social behaviour more so then private estates? Now dont get me wrong, iv no problem with such estates - I think that the level would be higher in such estates then private estates.

One thing you say i agree with, people should stop being so PC.

You have people on here who will abuse the living daylights and generalise about all travellers. But if it came to it, they would never say it to their face. Even if it was a civil traveller who wouldnt care. These people are just hiding behind their PC screen and think there great. Same with people on forums who personal abuse each other.

Some people are simpy to PC. Other people have no level of respect. There needs to be a correct balance. We should be allowed deal with those who step out of line as such, without being afraid or going OTT.

flyingoutside

Sully wrote: »

Some people are simpy to PC. Other people have no level of respect. There needs to be a correct balance. We should be allowed deal with those who step out of line as such, without being afraid or going OTT.

I think it's a whole culture, maybe even blame the church a little, thing your raised to think you should be nice to everyone but some people there's no helping and they should be told to **** off

Sully

flyingoutside wrote: »

I think it's a whole culture, maybe even blame the church a little, thing your raised to think you should be nice to everyone but some people there's no helping and they should be told to **** off

Well, if they followed the church then we wouldnt have that problem In general, our world is gone PC. We cant even say Happy Christmas these days. Sad state of afairs. Shouldnt be let, but it is

dlofnep

Or baa baa black sheep ^

flyingoutside

dlofnep wrote: »

Or baa baa black sheep ^

man i miss that

Aquos76

dlofnep wrote: »

Or baa baa black sheep ^

and dont forget "eany meany minne mo catch a ...."

floyd333

echosound wrote: »

If they want to live in a caravan, then do as the rest of society does if they fancy a bit of caravan living - pay to rent or buy a site upon which to place said caravan. If I want to live in a caravan and travel about, I would expect to pay for rental of a bay in any of the numerous caravan sites around Ireland, rather than aggressively take over a children's playing field, or the carpark of a community hall or church, or park up on grass verges at the side of the road, and refuse to move on, all the while making sure there will be a huge bill to pay for cleanup operations after I do eventually move on.

I'm sorry but all this PC malarky about pandering and providing sites etc - at expense to the taxpayer - because they're a so called minority group is BS. The sooner courts, cops, politicians and society in general stops being so afraid to call it like it is and actually do something about the current situation the better. Everyone seems to be in a paralysis of fear about any serious attempt to sort it out for fear of getting hit over the head with the "Oh Noes! discrimination" stick.

Well, when does it get serious enough to warrant serious and open debate without the fear of being branded discriminatory - when more travellers end up dead either by their own hand or being murdered by various warring factions? When a child gets fatally wounded in the crossfire? When a member of the general population gets injured or killed? When the wrong house is targeted and an innocent family die in a blaze? When the hospital is on permanent lockdown? What will it take before people can openly discuss a resolution without shrieks of outrage rising from certain quarters...

Brilliant Post. Well done mate. If only more people were as refreshingly honest as you. I'm so sick of this bleeding heart liberal crap being mouthed out by some people about this whole situation. I'll stop now before I get myself into trouble.

dlofnep

Aquos76 wrote: »

and dont forget "eany meany minne mo catch a ...."

I forgot about that one!

But that one can be rightfully forgotten. It is infact racist. baa baa black sheep however isn't.

AdMMM

Again, do ALL the travellers do it? Id kick out the feckers who do it and try keep those who respect the site in. I see your point though.

All I can do is sigh as I read your posts. As idealistic as you think you may be, it has all been tried before. Unfortunately, it's not very easy to remove certain members from a community without there being backlash because with any family there's unity. Think of it this way, if someone you loved was arrested, you'd fight their corner regardless. Same applies in this case.

I dont think every council estate attracts anti social behaviour

Every single estate attracts a certain level of anti-social behaviour. From Clonard Park to Kings Channel, they all have their problems. You are right in saying that some estates experience more trouble than others and this is due to certain socio-economic factors. But then again, it doesn't take a genius to figure that one out.

You have people on here who will abuse the living daylights and generalise about all travellers. But if it came to it, they would never say it to their face.

Wow. Just wow. I'll expand on the "wow factor" because given your input on this thread, I doubt your ability to fully understand how retarded your post is! If I were to make the following generalisation about the travelling community: "They're all scumbags who are only out to cause harm and mayhem", why in God's name would I even consider saying this to their face? If I think someone's going to harm me, regardless of who they are, I'm not going to walk up to them and tell them this, I'm going to scamper. For the record, I'll never confront an aggressive traveller and tell them what I really think of them, I'll be gone. Although I'm not sure about you... maybe you should stop by the halting sites one night during your daily patrol of the city and confront them all?

Sure the crowd in Kilbarry complained they hadnt enough room and the council wouldnt help them.

The council has to operate to a strict budget and could in no way justify such expenditure given there is no additional stream of revenue generated. So, the council have X amount of money to spend in the year and have allocated X amount of money to various projects. Given the council can obviously not allocate a sum greater than X, the only way they can meet the travellers demands is to cut back on projects already approved or to charge more for current services. Can you even begin to imagine the public outcry if for example the Peoples Park was sold in order to finance such projects. Maybe if the majority of the travelling community were fully paying taxes, it would be possible that X would a larger sum, allowing for such development and assistance to be offered.

dlofnep

Somehow me thinks with all the pistols, petrol bombs and shotguns - There won't be many willing to say anything to anybody's face.

longshanks

AdMMM wrote: »

All I can do is sigh as I read your posts. As idealistic as you think you may be, it has all been tried before. Unfortunately, it's not very easy to remove certain members from a community without there being backlash because with any family there's unity. Think of it this way, if someone you loved was arrested, you'd fight their corner regardless. Same applies in this case.


Every single estate attracts a certain level of anti-social behaviour. From Clonard Park to Kings Channel, they all have their problems. You are right in saying that some estates experience more trouble than others and this is due to certain socio-economic factors. But then again, it doesn't take a genius to figure that one out.



Wow. Just wow. I'll expand on the "wow factor" because given your input on this thread, I doubt your ability to fully understand how retarded your post is! If I were to make the following generalisation about the travelling community: "They're all scumbags who are only out to cause harm and mayhem", why in God's name would I even consider saying this to their face? If I think someone's going to harm me, regardless of who they are, I'm not going to walk up to them and tell them this, I'm going to scamper. For the record, I'll never confront an aggressive traveller and tell them what I really think of them, I'll be gone. Although I'm not sure about you... maybe you should stop by the halting sites one night during your daily patrol of the city and confront them all?



The council has to operate to a strict budget and could in no way justify such expenditure given there is no additional stream of revenue generated. So, the council have X amount of money to spend in the year and have allocated X amount of money to various projects. Given the council can obviously not allocate a sum greater than X, the only way they can meet the travellers demands is to cut back on projects already approved or to charge more for current services. Can you even begin to imagine the public outcry if for example the Peoples Park was sold in order to finance such projects. Maybe if the majority of the travelling community were fully paying taxes, it would be possible that X would a larger sum, allowing for such development and assistance to be offered.

and you'll probably get a ban for questioning thr pricks intelliegence, i'll get one for agreeing with you. the fact remains he's misinformed, opinionated and unableto see an opposing viewpoint

FrankieMul

To be in honest as a non local and having lived in Limerick for 19 years i dont see these as isolated incidents this is a more and more common occurance in Irish society amongst Travellers and residence of estates from lower income backrounds often council estates but not always. Its time for the minister of justice to introduce a dedicated Unit similar to CAB that could include the office for Social service and HSE.This would also allow us to address the social and criminal problems that lead to a lot of these problems. If you can cut out the basis or grassroot regular criminal incomes and social issues then these people may join regular society! Any thoughts?

longshanks

franko you have a point, but what do you think are the chances of anything being addressed at that level are?

Sully

longshanks wrote: »

and you'll probably get a ban for questioning thr pricks intelliegence, i'll get one for agreeing with you. the fact remains he's misinformed, opinionated and unableto see an opposing viewpoint

Why do you post here if you hate how the place is modded?

FrankieMul

And by good i mean it takes something big and shocking to happen! For example CAB was established because Veronica Guerin was murdered
After Gerry McCabe was Murdered by IRA bank robbers the state had a huge clamp down on paramilitary activities. And not til then and this is the case in any problem of this size and nature. Operations like this cost money and until the problem cost this much then the response will be the same size if not smaller

KJ_2008

Sully wrote: »

Why do you post here if you hate how the place is modded?

Why do you Mod here if you hate the posters?

Sully

AdMMM wrote: »

All I can do is sigh as I read your posts. As idealistic as you think you may be, it has all been tried before. Unfortunately, it's not very easy to remove certain members from a community without there being backlash because with any family there's unity. Think of it this way, if someone you loved was arrested, you'd fight their corner regardless. Same applies in this case.

So your telling me that the Gardai and the council have came down on hard on people who abuse the halting site and deal with them properly? And your also telling me that every single member of the travelling community are all the same?

Every single estate attracts a certain level of anti-social behaviour. From Clonard Park to Kings Channel, they all have their problems. You are right in saying that some estates experience more trouble than others and this is due to certain socio-economic factors. But then again, it doesn't take a genius to figure that one out.

I wouldnt say every single estate. Clearly people disagree that council estates have a higher chance of anti-social behaviour then non-council estates. So I guess not everyone is as smart as you!

Wow. Just wow. I'll expand on the "wow factor" because given your input on this thread, I doubt your ability to fully understand how retarded your post is! If I were to make the following generalisation about the travelling community: "They're all scumbags who are only out to cause harm and mayhem", why in God's name would I even consider saying this to their face? If I think someone's going to harm me, regardless of who they are, I'm not going to walk up to them and tell them this, I'm going to scamper. For the record, I'll never confront an aggressive traveller and tell them what I really think of them, I'll be gone. Although I'm not sure about you... maybe you should stop by the halting sites one night during your daily patrol of the city and confront them all?

Im beginning to question your intelligence. Your replies are pretty sad. You cant seem to make a comment without throwing some sort of dig or insult. Seletive quoting doesnt make you cool. As I said, even if a civil traveller who agreed not to harm a hair on your head for making such comments or get anyone to harm you asked you to make those comments - you wouldnt have the balls. But you will happily sit behing your PC screen and abuse them. Tough talk, but no balls to act.

I, nor would anyone else, confront an aggreisve traveller. And would you shed some light on the "daily patrol of the city" comment please?

The council has to operate to a strict budget and could in no way justify such expenditure given there is no additional stream of revenue generated. So, the council have X amount of money to spend in the year and have allocated X amount of money to various projects. Given the council can obviously not allocate a sum greater than X, the only way they can meet the travellers demands is to cut back on projects already approved or to charge more for current services. Can you even begin to imagine the public outcry if for example the Peoples Park was sold in order to finance such projects. Maybe if the majority of the travelling community were fully paying taxes, it would be possible that X would a larger sum, allowing for such development and assistance to be offered.

Just an example Adam - Travellers have always said that councills wont provide them with land. If there isnt enough funding in place - then it should be put in place.

How did you have so much experience with travellers anyway?

Sully

KJ_2008 wrote: »

Why do you Mod here if you hate the posters?

Dont hate any poster. shanks constantly moans, but still posts here. Doesnt make any sense!

Sully

FrankieMul wrote: »

To be in honest as a non local and having lived in Limerick for 19 years i dont see these as isolated incidents this is a more and more common occurance in Irish society amongst Travellers and residence of estates from lower income backrounds often council estates but not always.

But this level of crime isnt that common surley? Or is it just not reported in the news? I agree with you on the location of such crime (tho if its non travellers it seems to be more drugs realted).

Its time for the minister of justice to introduce a dedicated Unit similar to CAB that could include the office for Social service and HSE.This would also allow us to address the social and criminal problems that lead to a lot of these problems. If you can cut out the basis or grassroot regular criminal incomes and social issues then these people may join regular society! Any thoughts?

Not a bad idea. CAB has worked wonders. But wont the same problem of not being able to put these people into jail long enough arrise? Laws will have to change and judges will have to be brave!

Adyx

Just home from work again! Apparently somebody was stabbed up the alley/street behind Masons. Guards are still there as of 3:30 and the whole street is blocked off. Probably nothing to do with the other incidents but anyway...

iPlop

FrankieMul wrote: »

And by good i mean it takes something big and shocking to happen! For example CAB was established because Veronica Guerin was murdered
After Gerry McCabe was Murdered by IRA bank robbers the state had a huge clamp down on paramilitary activities. And not til then and this is the case in any problem of this size and nature. Operations like this cost money and until the problem cost this much then the response will be the same size if not smaller

totally agree something big like 20 people murdered in one go innocent or otherwise ,then public outrage that the state has lost control of the country.Then something will happen cos lets face it's a PR game!!@!