arrrrgggh, am i being unreasonable

Nevyn

Moonbaby wrote: »

A relationship isn't going to work for me unless the he is in shiney armour.

You might need one of these,

St Bill

Well OP, I don't think you were unreasonable with that man, and it probably did you the world of good to get it all off your chest. Here's hoping the next one is a keeper

Thaedydal

Thaedydal wrote: »

You might need one of these,

Curlypinkie

TBH, what a rude, rude man! IfI was hungry at someone elses I would never, repeat NEVER root through their stuff. Or ask for it.
Yeah sure, If you're inviting someone over, there's nothing on the table and you at least don't ask
'Would you like some tea or coffee or something' yah, you're a bad hostess. But for someone to EXPECT you to have a well stocked press just becuase you're a woman, well back to the 18th century with him. However he might find himself in some poor cottage somewhere outside Mayo.... but yeah, that would be pretty much what he deserves.

UUUURrrgh, I really don't like users :eek: does it show?
And at one stage the only thing I had in my fridge was nail polish and a bottle of champagne. I am looking back at that period in my life with pride, lol.

Iago

Dealing with men 101:

1. If you're not into us, tell us, we'll manage to get over it at some point.

2. If you don't want us to drop over/aren't prepared for company/are too tired to entertain tell us no or turn us away at the door. Again we'll somehow manage to get over it.

3. Generally if you're dating more than one of us at any given time without that being clear and obvious from the start, we don't react well and won't end well.

What not to do:
1. Don't expect us to pick up on your hints, we don't and we won't. If in doubt hammer it home.

2. Don't allow us into your home when we're slightly worse for wear from alcohol, if you do then don't be surprised if we're rude and have the munchies.

3. Don't let us away with being disrespectful on the basis that we'll "change" or it's "a once off" we won't, it's not and each time you let it happen you set yourself up for the next time.

Kur4mA

WTF? Are you sure one of your mates didn't put him up to it or maybe you're being setup for one of those hidden camera shows on telly? If it was neither of these, the chap is just a complete muppet.

LolaDub

Thaedydal wrote: »

Yes heavens forbid that an adult who is has been dating another adult think that sex might be on the agenda.

To be honest when i encounter this 'well we're adults so we have to be having sex' thing it really annoys me. Just because i've gone on a date with someone doesn't mean i'm in a contract to spread my legs for them and i find it very offensive and a complete turn off when a man is like this. Nobody should be bullied into sex because someone expects it.

KateF

LolaDub wrote: »

To be honest when i encounter this 'well we're adults so we have to be having sex' thing it really annoys me. Just because i've gone on a date with someone doesn't mean i'm in a contract to spread my legs for them and i find it very offensive and a complete turn off when a man is like this. Nobody should be bullied into sex because someone expects it.

Well said. To presume sex will be on the agenda just because you're adults, is, I think, very immature. Ironically

Nevyn

I didn't mean on any given ocassion or the first date but it's bound to be something that after a few dates will crop up. Otherwise why date someone if you are not intrested in an adult relationship with them ?

LolaDub

I really don't think because you are an adult and in a relationship or seeing someone more than once that you HAVE to have sex with them. No matter how long you are seeing someone for whether its 5 mins or 5 years nobody should be pressurized into sex from someones expectations or other peoples opinions. I would consider the point in meeting someone that you are getting to know someone, hopefully enjoying your time with them and they you. I don't think the point of a relationship is to have sex with someone.

Wibbs

LolaDub wrote: »

I don't think the point of a relationship is to have sex with someone.

Actually, strip away the romantic dinners etc and at the back of it all it is pretty much about sex and reproduction. Of course a successful relationship is based on more than that, but sex is at the back of it all. Otherwise it's a friendship. Nothing wrong with that either, but it's not a romantic relationship.

LolaDub

Wibbs wrote: »

Actually, strip away the romantic dinners etc and at the back of it all it is pretty much about sex and reproduction. Of course a successful relationship is based on more than that, but sex is at the back of it all. Otherwise it's a friendship. Nothing wrong with that either, but it's not a romantic relationship.

I understand when you strip off all ideas of romance and think of what its all for, its all for reproduction but how many of these i've met someone so i'm having sex with them cases are you actually hoping to reproduce in? Things aren't so clear cut. I do not feel that in order to have a romantic relayionship with someone i need to sleep with them and i would object to anybody pushing that view on me.

Madame Razz

Iago wrote: »

Dealing with men 101:

1. If you're not into us, tell us, we'll manage to get over it at some point.

2. If you don't want us to drop over/aren't prepared for company/are too tired to entertain tell us no or turn us away at the door. Again we'll somehow manage to get over it.

3. Generally if you're dating more than one of us at any given time without that being clear and obvious from the start, we don't react well and won't end well.

What not to do:
1. Don't expect us to pick up on your hints, we don't and we won't. If in doubt hammer it home.

2. Don't allow us into your home when we're slightly worse for wear from alcohol, if you do then don't be surprised if we're rude and have the munchies.

3. Don't let us away with being disrespectful on the basis that we'll "change" or it's "a once off" we won't, it's not and each time you let it happen you set yourself up for the next time.

point(s) taken.

Don't usually let men into the house when they've drink taken tho; well, it depends on the man, but as a general rule no!!

Oh, and, dont usually see two men at once, i know thats how its seems, but believe me, i learnt that lesson the hard way. It seems like i am seeing these two guys at once, but i wasnt seeing wine and cheese man since may, and only had a few dates with Mr Hairy since june.

im really not sure why Mr wine and Cheese called over Friday night actually; he must have had notions:eek:

Wibbs

LolaDub wrote: »

but how many of these i've met someone so i'm having sex with them cases are you actually hoping to reproduce in?

Consciously no, subconsciously quite a few I'd say.

Things aren't so clear cut.

Oh no I agree. Our mind and society has evolved to filter out a lot of the randomness our wobbly bits would otherwise engage in. In a hypothetical world where there were no consequences and all women were up for it, I would have sex with every single woman I found physically attractive. My biology as a male would be to spread my DNA as much as possible. A woman would have different reproductive strategies, as she can have a much smaller amount of children so her choices have to be more considered. In situations where women are freer to explore that, they do tend to have different kids with different males.

I do not feel that in order to have a romantic relayionship with someone i need to sleep with them and i would object to anybody pushing that view on me.

And that's your right, but personally it wouldn't be my bag and have even left relationships where their sexual nature didn't equal mine. Mismatch basically. They and me would be better with others that did match.

That's not to say jumping into bed for the sake of it or jumping into bed because of pressure is on. Not at all. I would actually go against that notion that's often pushed as part of the sexual revolution. I personally value sex too much and one nighters don't really do it for me and indeed I'm crap at them in every way.

But, if I was in a serious relationship and felt pressure on my part to hold back all the time or feel I was pressuring the woman, because her sex drive, needs or wants were not on parity with mine? It would be game over. Simple as. Imagine if I ended up with someone like that? My life and hers would be pretty crappy.

PS I've gone up to six months before sex with someone I was seeing. I've had sex the second time I've met someone. In both extremes I've had very good relationships that did me(and I hope them) some good.

I would not however stay with someone if sex and intimacy was off the menu. Sex is a large part of romantic intimacy for me.

Trinity

Personally if your not having sex with your partner then your partner is not your partner but your friend. It depends how long you are with them, some people wait a year and are happy with that but not many people would accept a relationship were they have never had sex and never will??

And if you choose to have a sexless long term relationship then you had better tell the other half :eek:

As long as 2 people want it, or dont want it then fine, however i see your point Lola no-one should ever be pressured into having sex, however if you are in a loving relationship, you want intimacy and you want to be close to that someone you love, sex will most likely be a natural progression but again its up to the individual. I cant see a highly sexed man waiting for 5 years personally.

Manukahoney - I'm the opposite. I would be throwing food at people, or if i had none i would whip out a takeaway menu. I always get the munchies when drinking. However the only persons presses I would look in is my mothers, and if in a friends and i was hungry i would ask them did they have a number for a local take away, i would never look or ask for food.

Looking in your presses a tad rude alright. Some people are like that, they annoy my mother and she always says they would live in your ear, wahtever that means, yet shes the most hospitable person i know. Familiarity, its up there with farting in front of you and putting his mucky feet on your settee before the 3rd date

Have to say if you liked him a lot and he wasnt so weird in other ways i am not sure it would have bothered you so much

I like people to feel comfortable in my home, especially when you first start dating i take it as kind of a compliment, when he makes himself at home, means hes comfortable with me, weird i know.

But if they were getting on my nerves in other ways i think everything they did would annoy me at that point and i would be rightly pissed off. Its like the rose tinted glasses coming off. Look for faults and you will find them.

But you are right to be shot of him i dont think you were into him! And if it bothered you then thats all that mattered.

One question though - would you have minded the norweigan looking through your presses or asking for good cheese

LolaDub

The good cheese thing is hilarious you should get some dunnes branded cheddar for him if you'll ever see him again.

I appreciate the comments i've had on my previous post. I think a few little things are misunderstood but thats to be expected on a forum. I wasn't posting on my personal 'rules' or whatever is the best way to put it but more a general attitude. I find the attitude where you are expected to have sex with someone offensive. If i was on 2 or 3 dates with someone and he jumped on me for said expected sex i would be seriously unhappy. I would never condemn anyone for their own choices. I feel very strongly that romance and sex are different things and i also think sex is different from intimacy. I guess a lot of people value sex differently. If a friend had told me she'd met a guy and had slept with him out of some kind of notion of obligation i would be very concerned. People have sex because they all want to not because they have to.

Personally if i met someone and it went well i wouldn't jump into bed with them, when or if i went to bed with them would depend on the guy, the relationship and how comfortable physically i was. If a guy just started grinding on me etc i would be freaked out and if a guy refused to stay with me because i wasn't ready (for whatever reasons) to sleep with him yet i'd think he was an ass and i was well rid. If a guy didn't want to wait and had a constructive conversation with me about it then we decided to part ways or address it later i would be far more respecting of him.

Sex is still a choice on both sides.

P.S. I'm not drunk my keyboard is slightly broken apologies for the dodgey spelling!

Madame Razz

Trinity1 wrote: »

One question though - would you have minded the norweigan looking through your presses or asking for good cheese

He was actually quite obsessed with cheese!!!

We knew each other as friends first so it was sort of different.

I did catch him using my Clinique Sparkle skin exfoliator though, he told me he had been using it all week and it was actually very good and that he must get himself some!!

At the time i just laughed at his vanity. The Norwegians are very different to us Irish!!

On the sex thing, i try to wait. I think men, irish men, weirdly, have more respect if you do. Its damned hard sometimes though!!!:o

Also,if you jump into bed too quickly with somebody, they often can turn out to be quite different to the person you originally thought they were, which makes the parting of ways slightly more awkward and may lead to slightly sheepish encounters in various drinking establishments on occassion(esp if you live in a small city like gaillimh!!). and i never fell obligated to have sex, thats just wrong.

I'm trying to learn from my previous mistakes dya see!!!;)

LolaDub

Manuka if it helps i'll tell you a little horror story of my own, its long so i'll try shorten it. A friend decided to set me up with her brother thinking we'd be perfect for each other. All she told me about him was he was lovely, a real gentleman and only dated models (this should have set alarm bells ringing!)We met after work at a cafe in town, he'd arrived early and had sat himself down and already ordered, when i arrived he introduced himself very formally and we sat down.

Without sounding awful this man was not attractive in the least had a greasy combover and clothes way too tight for him and honestly seemed to think he was brad pitt. Pm me if you want a description i don't want to put it up here. In short over one coffee he asked me first off if i was wearing a bra ( i was wearing an average top that stopped just above where you would actually see my boobs) then stared at my boobs for the entire coffee in quite an obvious way!He asked me what my hobbies were and i answered the usual cinema socialising stuff and enquired after his which were only bdsm and group sex and dungeons and dragons, he then went on and told me he would enjoy 'dominating' me, then went into detail of spankings and tieing up etc-in a small crowded cafe!!

Theres a few other crude things that im going to leave out but suffice to say i made my excuses and tried to leave-he followed me. Came up to me at the end of the road and said he'd walk me to where i was going. I insisted it wasn't necessary as it was a 20 min walk away but regardless he did and then when i said ok bye etc he just jumped at me with his tongue out for a snog right outside my office and said he'd book a hotel room for the next time we met.

Obviously i didn't want to be rude as this guy was a friends brother but i was not too happy with him. My friend was really upset that i said he wasn't for me but i didn't think telling her the truth was appropriate!

Should we make a different thread for the sex/relationship stuff as its prob a bit off topic here?

Madame Razz

done.

fits

LolaDub wrote: »

. I find the attitude where you are expected to have sex with someone offensive. If i was on 2 or 3 dates with someone and he jumped on me for said expected sex i would be seriously unhappy. I would never condemn anyone for their own choices. I feel very strongly that romance and sex are different things and i also think sex is different from intimacy.

I dont think anyone mentioned expectation. Generally though, if two people like each other, sex is on the agenda. Thats very different.

I dont really care what a guy would think of me 'putting out too soon'. He's not my type if he thinks like that. Sometimes adults just want to have sex. So what?

Nevyn

manukahoney wrote: »

point(s) taken.

Don't usually let men into the house when they've drink taken tho; well, it depends on the man, but as a general rule no!!

Oh, and, dont usually see two men at once, i know thats how its seems, but believe me, i learnt that lesson the hard way. It seems like i am seeing these two guys at once, but i wasnt seeing wine and cheese man since may, and only had a few dates with Mr Hairy since june.

im really not sure why Mr wine and Cheese called over Friday night actually; he must have had notions:eek:

*boggle8 you hadn't been actively dating him and you still let him invite himself over ?

LolaDub wrote: »

Without sounding awful this man was not attractive in the least had a greasy combover and clothes way too tight for him and honestly seemed to think he was brad pitt. Pm me if you want a description i don't want to put it up here. In short over one coffee he asked me first off if i was wearing a bra ( i was wearing an average top that stopped just above where you would actually see my boobs) then stared at my boobs for the entire coffee in quite an obvious way!He asked me what my hobbies were and i answered the usual cinema socialising stuff and enquired after his which were only bdsm and group sex and dungeons and dragons, he then went on and told me he would enjoy 'dominating' me, then went into detail of spankings and tieing up etc-in a small crowded cafe!!

Theres a few other crude things that im going to leave out but suffice to say i made my excuses and tried to leave-he followed me. Came up to me at the end of the road and said he'd walk me to where i was going. I insisted it wasn't necessary as it was a 20 min walk away but regardless he did and then when i said ok bye etc he just jumped at me with his tongue out for a snog right outside my office and said he'd book a hotel room for the next time we met.

Obviously i didn't want to be rude as this guy was a friends brother but i was not too happy with him. My friend was really upset that i said he wasn't for me but i didn't think telling her the truth was appropriate!

Should we make a different thread for the sex/relationship stuff as its prob a bit off topic here?

Wow sounds like he had less then 10 stat points in Char, failed all his spot checks and then rolled a critical fail.

Just because a person was into spanking that doesn't make them a Dom.
Just because a person is pushy and selfish that doesn't make them a Dom.
Just cos a person is into d&d doesn't mean they have 0 socail skills.

Wow he sounded bloody awful.

DublinWriter

LolaDub wrote: »

Manuka if it helps i'll tell you a little horror story of my own, its long so i'll try shorten it. A friend decided to set me up with her brother thinking we'd be perfect for each other. All she told me about him was he was lovely, a real gentleman and only dated models (this should have set alarm bells ringing!)We met after work at a cafe in town, he'd arrived early and had sat himself down and already ordered, when i arrived he introduced himself very formally and we sat down.

Without sounding awful this man was not attractive in the least had a greasy combover and clothes way too tight for him and honestly seemed to think he was brad pitt. Pm me if you want a description i don't want to put it up here. In short over one coffee he asked me first off if i was wearing a bra ( i was wearing an average top that stopped just above where you would actually see my boobs) then stared at my boobs for the entire coffee in quite an obvious way!He asked me what my hobbies were and i answered the usual cinema socialising stuff and enquired after his which were only bdsm and group sex and dungeons and dragons, he then went on and told me he would enjoy 'dominating' me, then went into detail of spankings and tieing up etc-in a small crowded cafe!!

Theres a few other crude things that im going to leave out but suffice to say i made my excuses and tried to leave-he followed me. Came up to me at the end of the road and said he'd walk me to where i was going. I insisted it wasn't necessary as it was a 20 min walk away but regardless he did and then when i said ok bye etc he just jumped at me with his tongue out for a snog right outside my office and said he'd book a hotel room for the next time we met.

Obviously i didn't want to be rude as this guy was a friends brother but i was not too happy with him. My friend was really upset that i said he wasn't for me but i didn't think telling her the truth was appropriate!

If I were writing a 'Nightmare date' comedic type scene, I really, really, really couldn't add anything to that. It's tragic on almost every level. Scrotum tighteningly so, reading your post I was hearing the slow motion crashing sound of metal on metal.

...although I would probably have the guy saying at the end "So you won't see me again just because I'm a Gary Glitter fan?!"

LolaDub

Thaea he told me in the cafe that he was a 'dom' and wanted to dominate me then went into all this unnecessary info on how and what etc. Thanks all for agreeing with me that this guy was crazy if people had been wondering why he was such a bad date i would have been worried.....really worried, gary glitter or not.

Fits the discussion was following on from an earlier comment that if you don't sleep with someone then you're not in an adult relationship. I don't agree with that but if you go back you'll see my points and the comments of the people who disagreed with me. From what i can see here it does seem like sex is definitely expected and i really wasn't aware before now that the masses thought in this way i just thought it was sleazes trying it on!

fits

LolaDub wrote: »

Fits the discussion was following on from an earlier comment that if you don't sleep with someone then you're not in an adult relationship.

I dont think anybody said that. It was said that sex was 'on the agenda' in an adult relationship. i.e. open for discussion. That has a different meaning to 'expected' in my opinion.

From what i can see here it does seem like sex is definitely expected and i really wasn't aware before now that the masses thought in this way i just thought it was sleazes trying it on!

Look two people who are dating should be clear about what they want and dont want, and respect the other and their wishes, whatever their preference. I dont think anyone will argue with that.

LolaLuv

I think expecting sex on a first date is incredibly skeevy. Although if you've got a great vibe and it just sort of happens, that could be hot, but that would be a rarity for me.

Zaph

LolaDub wrote: »

From what i can see here it does seem like sex is definitely expected and i really wasn't aware before now that the masses thought in this way i just thought it was sleazes trying it on!

I don't think sex is expected on a first date. Or a second or third one either for that matter. What I do think is that if the relationship appears to be going somewhere it is expected at some stage. When is entirely up to the protagonists, they might want to jump into the sack straight away or leave it for a good while, but I don't think it's reasonable to think that it's not at the very least up for discussion.

LolaDub

Of course zaph if the relationship is going somewhere its a discussion i'm sure but i don't think that people should have to have sex to keep someone or because its expected or to make sure they're in an adult relationship. Again i'm not talking about my own personal experiences but generally i think this expectation that you have to have sex with someone is awful

fits

LolaDub wrote: »

Of course zaph if the relationship is going somewhere its a discussion i'm sure but i don't think that people should have to have sex to keep someone or because its expected or to make sure they're in an adult relationship. Again i'm not talking about my own personal experiences but generally i think this expectation that you have to have sex with someone is awful

Look anyone who has sex with someone to 'keep them' is a sad git.

Zaph

LolaDub wrote: »

Of course zaph if the relationship is going somewhere its a discussion i'm sure but i don't think that people should have to have sex to keep someone or because its expected or to make sure they're in an adult relationship. Again i'm not talking about my own personal experiences but generally i think this expectation that you have to have sex with someone is awful

I totally agree, nobody should ever have sex unless they actually want to. To pressure someone into sleeping with you before they're ready isn't going to do much for the relationship in the long term, if indeed it even has a long term. If someone's of the opinion that they have to have sex to validate their relationship then imo that person isn't ready to start having adult relationships.

LolaDub

Zaph wrote: »

I totally agree, nobody should ever have sex unless they actually want to. To pressure someone into sleeping with you before they're ready isn't going to do much for the relationship in the long term, if indeed it even has a long term. If someone's of the opinion that they have to have sex to validate their relationship then imo that person isn't ready to start having adult relationships.

Thanks Zaph, i'm of the same opinion!!!! I think this attitude of you have to have sex with someone is quite sad honestly. Its awful to think that people do have sex because they think they have to.