How did we get to this?

Chong

Why is it that there are certain forums on here that are run so strictly it begins to rip the fun right out of boards. I dont want to list out the forums in particular as I am sure alot of posters will have experienced this on boards, but with some forums you cant blink without being banned.

There are forums that regulate everything with rules and laws its becoming quite ludicrous. Now I know I dont have post here on boards as I am sure I will be told , but having been posting here since 2002, I like posting here, but its becoming more and more difficult. I am not talking about spamming, trolling or Rick Rolling , I am talking about the whole PC culture the site has adopted, I am not saying we should have site either that resembles other sites like StormF&*£!, but pure freedom of speech would be nice for a change.

Now please bear in mind this only feedback, and some ways a rant /opinion.

Ah well cue the abuse!

CuLT

Pure freedom of speech would be super if some high court tells us that posters will get sued for their comments instead of boards.ie.

If you're not talking about libel, etc, then you'd imagine common courtesy wouldn't have to be enforced, but hey, people never fail to disappoint

Sully

Can you give some examples? Iv heard that complaint a few times now in relation to Traveller Discussion on the Waterford forum where its a pretty sensitive topic (feuding families, spilling out onto the streets and people just talking about their disgust from travellers in general). I personally dont see a problem with people discussing it, but to keep a bit of fairness we ask not to refer to them as "knakcers, knick-knacks, tinker, pikeys" etc. as some people consider the term offensive and it just causes people bitching at each other over the right to use the word.

The policy we took on the forum was, after adding it to the charter, warn if it was mildly used and ban on sight if it was just plain stupid (such as talking about shooting them on sight, exterminating them with flamethrowers etc.). Repeat offenders dont get warned a second time. It pisses of a lot of people who just hate travellers and think we are going OTT with moderation.

I also like to think, perhaps im just to stupid to think it, that not all travellers (or any group of people) are all that bad. So tarnishing them all with the same brush or accusing them of doing something there is no evidence they did is something I have a dislike towards as its really unfair to refer to "everyone" the same way.

Iv never had any other type of discussion come up where people pull the "Oh your part of the PC brigade" card. It probably happens more so on After Hours, but I would like to think it again is a balanced and fair discussion and use of terms like "n**ger" are not permitted.

On smaller sites, people go around and say what they like. Some people prefer that type of forum but on Boards - it has to be run a little bit different. Its to big of a site to let people run around and do what they want, say what they want etc. Besides possible legal issues as a result of people making stupid comments about individuals, companies or organizations you also have the problem where this site has a very large number of active users, guests (media, solicitors etc), and newly registered users so it needs a bit more control then a smaller site would have to avoid the site being filled with crap (spam, trolls, flamewars over personal attacks etc).

Adam

Free speech is an idealistic concept. If anything, we have more freedom on the internet due to the anonymity, but no more than if I was to walk the streets yelling about how I hate black people (for example, I don't) I would eventually be hauled off the streets or beaten or both, if we operated under a free speech policy the whole site would be one big flame war.

I'd love to know which fora you feel confined in though, as I've never found it overly stiffling.

--amadeus--

I think he may be thinking of a particular forum (to do with a popular 11 a side game, perhaps ) where the attitude of mods to posters is more like kindergarden teacher to toddler than adult to adult.

humanji

If some posters didn't act like children and had a modicum of cop on then there wouldn't have to be strict rules. Unfortunately, that will never come to be.

Chong

Whoa whoa whoa.

Do not get me wrong, I am not getting at free speech in such a way that I can say what I like , like the references Mirror uses above.

I am talking about Totalatarianism in some forums, where its all down to you cannot say this , that and the other , if so you will be ejected good bye, we didnt ask you to post here etc.

faceman

Leaving libel issues aside, OP if you look at what the soccer forum was before it was moderated as strict as it is now, you will see it was a big pile of poo that wasnt worth posting in.

So essentially it was the crap user input that caused it to evolve into what it is today. It wasnt like the mods decided to mod it so tight like that from day 1. While soccer is always the extreme example, its a pretty good one to demonstrate the importance of good controls and moderation that dont always seem like the best way.

However maybe some examples of your issues would help?

Chong

faceman wrote: »

Leaving libel issues aside, OP if you look at what the soccer forum was before it was moderated as strict as it is now, you will see it was a big pile of poo that wasnt worth posting in.

So essentially it was the crap user input that caused it to evolve into what it is today. It wasnt like the mods decided to mod it so tight like that from day 1. While soccer is always the extreme example, its a pretty good one to demonstrate the importance of good controls and moderation that dont always seem like the best way.

However maybe some examples of your issues would help?

Lol not to be coy, but I didnt mention the soccer forum.

Sully

Van Zuylen wrote: »

Lol not to be coy, but I didnt mention the soccer forum.

faceman was simply giving an example, as was I We are taking a stab in the dark to give you examples of areas which require stricter moderation for various reasons. Without your examples, that's all we can do!

Adam

Van Zuylen wrote: »

Whoa whoa whoa.

Do not get me wrong, I am not getting at free speech in such a way that I can say what I like , like the references Mirror uses above.

I am talking about Totalatarianism in some forums, where its all down to you cannot say this , that and the other , if so you will be ejected good bye, we didnt ask you to post here etc.

Gah! I don't even know who you are...

Basically this topic has come up before, and it's very hard to pin down what the problem is withouth the OP pointing to where the supposed problem is. After all, the forum is for feedback. But feedback is generally to either praise or criticise something. So when that something isn't specified, it's all very up in the air and doesn't really achieve anything.

seamus

--amadeus-- wrote: »

I think he may be thinking of a particular forum (to do with a popular 11 a side game, perhaps ) where the attitude of mods to posters is more like kindergarden teacher to toddler than adult to adult.

If it acts like a child, then you treat it like a child.

OP, tbh without examples, then your comments don't mean a lot. That's not me saying your opinion is worthless, but it's a bit like saying to your local TD, "You know, there are a few things wrong with this town. I don't want to give specifics, but maybe you could do something about it?".

There are a lot of forums which are heavily moderated because time has shown us (again and again) that without moderation, the standard of the content on the forum will fall to crap. On other forums, there's less of tendancy for people to come on and spout off abuse and trolling, so the moderation is lighter.

Why do we do it? Usability. As the amount of noise increases, the signal decreases. People with a genuine interest in getting involved are put off contributing, and the noise continues to increase until all you're left with are the people with the literary skills of a baboon. It's a killer for good forums.

The stance boards has taken on this kind of thing has worked so far and seems to keep most people happy.

It's interesting to note that the two most popular forums on the whole site are among those with largest number of rules and the strictest application of them. That says something.

Xavi6

Well there was a particular post yesterday that resulted in a banning that seriously made myself (and others) roll our eyes. It wasn't in soccer and I can quote it if needs be. There seems to be no craic out of some of the moderaters here and they could lightening up a little bit.

EDIT: Ah sure feck it, here's the post -

http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=56921676&postcount=2

Poster banned, thread locked. Ridiculous. Have a little giggle at it and move on.

Chong

OMG ROFLcakes! wrote: »

Gah! I don't even know who you are...

Basically this topic has come up before, and it's very hard to pin down what the problem is withouth the OP pointing to where the supposed problem is. After all, the forum is for feedback. But feedback is generally to either praise or criticise something. So when that something isn't specified, it's all very up in the air and doesn't really achieve anything.

I know of you though only kidding.

Ya I am not going to start naming out forums or that will open a can of worms.

I suppose this is or was a rant by myself based forums I take exception to on boards.

ozt9vdujny3srf

Boards is so big, and has so many moderators with varying moderation styles that threads like this are difficult to quantify. A mod's power over his/her own forum appears to be almost sacrisant.
There are communities within boards that have a very tightly enforced set of rules and there are other communities that are barely moderated (while in the vast majority of cases retaining a good signal to noise ratio).

The thing is, there are certain fora (and I have experience of moderating such a forum) where it takes a very talented moderator to keep on the right track without having to step on any toes and rigidly stick to rules. (This is something I never managed to do).

There is a point here somehere, and it's this - writing a thread about how boards has gone overboard and too PC and too heavy handed and all that jazz isn't going to help the site or change any opinions. The only way to pipe up about what you feel is overly heavy handed or unfair is by referring to specific cases. I know this has often fallen into the abyss of feedback often in the past, but the admins are on a big push to rectify the conflict resolution system.

edit: Jaysis, when I started writing this post I there had only been 1 reply to the thread!

Amz

Some people get banned for stupid comments, following warnings about other posts/threads. If it's a continuation of a cycle of stupid "contributions" to the forum.

Chong

Xavi6 wrote: »

Well there was a particular post yesterday that resulted in a banning that seriously made myself (and others) roll our eyes. It wasn't in soccer and I can quote it if needs be. There seems to be no craic out of some of the moderaters here and they could lightening up a little bit.

EDIT: Ah sure feck it, here's the post -

http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=56921676&postcount=2

Poster banned, thread locked. Ridiculous. Have a little giggle at it and move on.

This is exactly the sort of stuff I am getting at, moderators on the whole do a magnificent job on here, but there are some that get a pleasure of pressing that big RED ban button.

Sully

Van Zuylen wrote: »

I know of you though only kidding.

Ya I am not going to start naming out forums or that will open a can of worms.

I suppose this is or was a rant by myself based forums I take exception to on boards.

If a problem exists, it wont be fixed by hiding the name of the forum. Feedback cant be acted upon without specifics. Its like going to a doctor saying you have a problem but refusing to state what

Amz

Van Zuylen wrote: »

This is exactly the sort of stuff I am getting at, moderators on the whole do a magnificent job on here, but there are some that get a pleasure of pressing that big RED ban button.

See my post above.

Chong

Amz wrote: »

See my post above.

I do indeed see your post Amz, posted same time as you.

Sully

Xavi6 wrote: »

Well there was a particular post yesterday that resulted in a banning that seriously made myself (and others) roll our eyes. It wasn't in soccer and I can quote it if needs be. There seems to be no craic out of some of the moderaters here and they could lightening up a little bit.

Aye I can see your point. Sometimes its hard to detect it, or the comment isnt appropriate. Other times, its a bit of an over reaction.

EDIT: Ah sure feck it, here's the post -

http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=56921676&postcount=2

Poster banned, thread locked. Ridiculous. Have a little giggle at it and move on.

From reading Amz post, it would seem that poster doesn't contribute to the forum in general. Off topic banter is fine, but not on a regular basis as it gets annoying. If a serious point is being made and some fool keeps coming in and cracking jokes each time, it defeats the purpose of a discussion forum Seems to be the case here?

Adam

Van Zuylen wrote: »

This is exactly the sort of stuff I am getting at, moderators on the whole do a magnificent job on here, but there are some that get a pleasure of pressing that big RED ban button.

I would gather from Amz response to that post that irish_bob had posted more crap like that on other threads previous to his banning.

Amz

Van Zuylen wrote: »

I do indeed see your post Amz, posted same time as you.

Obviously I wouldn't ban based on a single post, that particular individual had been warned about his contributions to the forum. He'd started a thread that caused agro and it had to be locked, he refused to participate in discussions in a civilised manner taking umbrage at points other users made and getting personal, he wasn't alone, but he was a catalyst in the thread getting nasty. He then jumped into another thread making a stupid comment. If he had followed that comment up with at least some attempt at a discussion that would have been fine, he didn't.

Xavi6

Sully wrote: »

From reading Amz post, it would seem that poster doesn't contribute to the forum in general. Off topic banter is fine, but not on a regular basis as it gets annoying. If a serious point is being made and some fool keeps coming in and cracking jokes each time, it defeats the purpose of a discussion forum Seems to be the case here?

Fair enough if the comment had been aimed at a particular person or infringed strongly on a forum rule like personal abuse but it was a throwaway comment that was no doubt merely for a giggle and in no way took away from the thread which continued on.

Knickers in a twist over nothing.

Sully

Xavi6 wrote: »

Fair enough if the comment had been aimed at a particular person or infringed strongly on a forum rule like personal abuse but it was a throwaway comment that was no doubt merely for a giggle and in no way took away from the thread which continued on.

Knickers in a twist over nothing.

Are you ignoring what both me and Amz have said? The chap wasn't banned soley based on that comment alone. The chap has been acting the muppet in general, constantly waffling away with useless posts and not contributing. In this case, he yet again posted something off topic (even if it was funny) and the mods gave him the boot.

Often people refuse to look at the bigger picture!

seamus

Xavi6 wrote: »

Fair enough if the comment had been aimed at a particular person or infringed strongly on a forum rule like personal abuse but it was a throwaway comment that was no doubt merely for a giggle and in no way took away from the thread which continued on.

Knickers in a twist over nothing.

Read my post above, specifically the bit about "noise".

Xavi6

OMG ROFLcakes! wrote: »

I would gather from Amz response to that post that irish_bob had posted more crap like that on other threads previous to his banning.

But that wasn't crap. It was a bit of comic humour, and it worked. As I said, some people need to lighten up.

At least wait til he breaks a rule before banning.

Chong

I hear what your saying and I am not defending that post in any sort of way. Or I am condoning stupidity which results in banning for good reason.

I would also like to state I havent been banned from anywhere, spurring me on to create this thread.

This view I have is simply looking at the site on the whole over the past few years.

I understand from Cults reply there is a lot on here that is regulated in accordance to Libel laws, which I admit I did not know. One question I would have is , why are we so strictly bound by libel laws, when other sites may not be. Please excuse my ignorance/naivity.

Amz

Obviously your standard of humour is lower than mine Xavi.

Xavi6

Sully wrote: »

Are you ignoring what both me and Amz have said? The chap wasn't banned soley based on that comment alone. The chap has been acting the muppet in general, constantly waffling away with useless posts and not contributing. In this case, he yet again posted something off topic (even if it was funny) and the mods gave him the boot.

Often people refuse to look at the bigger picture!

Then ban him for a post that commits an offence. It wasn't off topic. He commented on the sexist issue in a funny way.

Xavi6

Amz wrote: »

Obviously your standard of humour is lower than mine.

Obviously I have one.