Raw (Spoilers) 19/08/08

SlickRic

not that last night's show imo is worth much of a thread but i thought i'd give it a go anyway...

that had to be one of the most underwhelming Raws I have ever witnessed. and i choose the word 'ever' carefully. Just a few titbits...

Jericho's promo, though intense as usual, was utterly pointless and didnt do anything to move forward a story that has been pretty well paced so far (as has been discussed in another thread). He basically re-capped wat had happened, then did a watered-version of the promo he did to HBK's face at SS. Set the tone for a pointless night.

Batista squashing Burchill was pointless, more for the fact it wasted air time than any particular liking I have for Burchill. all it did was mildly sell the fact Cena worked his knee at SS, and set up them meeting briefly backstage. Surely there would be a better way to continue this story??

The '5-Man ChampionshipChallenge' simply sounds like a bit of a carwreck waiting to happen. Everytime the title changes hands does that count as a reign? Could Cena be 7-time champ by the end? If so expect HHH to gatecrash and get at least another 3 reigns under his belt Seriously tho Cena's jobbed 5 out of 7 PPVs now, how is he still in the title picture? And JBL as we all know is spent as a worker no matter how good on the mic he is. And he's had how many shots at it now? Ridiculous booking, no sense imo. Batista gettin a straight shot, bringin in the 'him helping Punk get the belt thing' plus his run of PPV victories would surely have made more sense, and drawn people to the PPV? My gut says they've run out of feuds to run with. They're not building anything properly (apart from Jericho/HBK) so nothing's lasting. It's a mess imo.

Glamarella provided great entertainment, thank goodness.

The diva's did ok too in their respective matches.

JBL squash was a bit less needless than Batista's. At least I could see the point. 'Guy who expects to be Champion utterly pi$$ed he isn't and looks for a victim to bully'. That's fine. I do still have a problem with Noble's continued burials. He could be a great asset. He's a great worker, former ROH champion, he can put on good matches, he should not imo be abused this way.

Kane's promo was fine, no problems with it. I just don't care about him anymore. he's not mysterious to me, I don't want to understand him, so I don't see the point. But I'm sure there must be some people who do.

Cena beating the tag champs...I always have a problem with these sorts of things happening, purely because I wish Vince cared about the tag division. Since he doesn't i can understand why he has no problem using them to put over Cena again as a threat but still, it doesn't mean i have to like it. Cena sold them as good champs through the match, DiBiase really impresses me, but why finish it so meekly with Cena's first meaningful flourish since the start of the match? Though the Cryme Tyme thing was great, clever, and hopefully will lead somewhere good story-wise.

CM Punk losing again is plain farcical. I don't care that it wasn't fully clean, but it was 95% clean. Sorry if people disagree but he just looks plain weak, completely unbelievable. Getting him through PPVs isn't going to get him over. It doesn't send out the message he's 'rising to the challenge of being Champion'. It just makes him look like a chumpstain who got lucky. And in his hometown too? Mute point I know but still

Anyway thats my two cents....

EdK

SlickRic wrote: »

not that last night's show imo is worth much of a thread but i thought i'd give it a go anyway...

that had to be one of the most underwhelming Raw's I have ever witnessed. and i choose the word 'ever' carefully. Just a few titbits...

Jericho's promo, though intense as usual, was utterly pointless and didnt do anything to move forward a story that has been pretty well paced so far (as has been discussed in another thread). He basically re-capped wat had happened, then did a watered-version of the promo he did to HBK's face at SS. Set the tone for a pointless night.

Batista squashing Burchill was pointless, more for the fact it wasted air time than any particular liking I have for Burchill. all it did was mildly sell the fact Cena worked his knee at SS, and set up them meeting briefly backstage. Surely there would be a better way to continue this story??

The '5-Man ChampionshipChallenge' simply sounds like a bit of a carwreck waiting to happen. Everytime the title changes hands does that count as a reign? Could Cena be 7-time champ by the end? If so expect HHH to gatecrash and get at least another 3 reigns under his belt Seriously tho Cena's jobbed 5 out of 7 PPVs now, how is he still in the title picture? And JBL as we all know is spent as a worker no matter how good on the mic he is. And he's had how many shots at it now? Ridiculous booking, no sense imo. Batista gettin a straight shot, bringin in the 'him helping Punk get the belt thing' plus his run of PPV victories would surely have made more sense, and drawn people to the PPV? My gut says they've run out of feuds to run with. They're not building anything properly (apart from Jericho/HBK) so nothing's lasting. It's a mess imo.

Glamarella provided great entertainment, thank goodness.

The diva's did ok too in their respective matches.

JBL squash was a bit less needless than Batista's. At least I could see the point. 'Guy who expects to be Champion utterly pi$$ed he isn't and looks for a victim to bully'. That's fine. I do still have a problem with Noble's continued burials. He could be a great asset. He's a great worker, former ROH champion, he can put on good matches, he should not imo be abused this way.

Kane's promo was fine, no problems with it. I just con't care about him anymore. he's not mysterious to me, I don't want to understand him, so I don't see the point. But I'm sure there must be some people who do.

Cena beating the tag champs...I always have a problem with these sorts of things happening, purely because I wish Vince cared about the tag division. Since he doesn't i can understand why he has no problem using them to put over Cena again as a threat but still, it doesn't mean i have to like it. Cena sold them as good champs through the match, DiBiase really impresses me, but why finish it so meekly with Cena's first meaningful flourish since the start of the match? Though the Cryme Tyme thing was great, clever, and hopefully will lead somewhere good story-wise.

CM Punk losing again is plain farcical. I don't care that it wasn't fully clean, but it was 95% clean. Sorry if people disagree but he just looks plain week, completely unbelievable. Getting him through PPVs isn't going to get him over. It doesn't send out the message he's 'rising to the challenge of being Champion'. It just makes him look like a chumpstain who got lucky. And in his hometown too? Mute point I know but still

Anyway thats my two cents....

Dont forget the strong debut of Carlitos brother hehe

SlickRic

good point....what in the blue hell was that?

Tricity Bendix

CM Punk losing to a guy who isn't even in the title hunt in front of a home crowd is a joke.

SlickRic

a home crowd, to a guy in a nappy, even worse :pac:

ShawnRaven

EdK wrote: »

Dont forget the strong debut of Carlitos brother hehe

If it's Eddie Colon, you're in for a treat, he's supposed to be ten times the worker Carly is.

VR!

ShawnRaven

b.ie curious wrote: »

CM Punk losing to a guy who isn't even in the title hunt in front of a home crowd is a joke.

CP Munk is not a credible champion, the sooner people face up to this, the better.

VR!

SlickRic

validreasoning! wrote: »

CP Munk is not a credible champion, the sooner people face up to this, the better.

VR!

it'd be nice if they at least tried though, why put him there in the first place then?

Kane-N-Nite

KANES NEW THEME SONG :eek::eek::eek:

ShawnRaven

SlickRic wrote: »

it'd be nice if they at least tried though, why put him there in the first place then?

That i can't answer, but it's blatantly obvious that he's been booked as a tough luck underdog champion who's reign is only lasting by the skin of his teeth. But it's RAW that's gone kiddie crazy, and kids have to have a hero. It's either him or Cena, i'd rather CP Munk thanks.

VR!

SlickRic

validreasoning! wrote: »

That i can't answer, but it's blatantly obvious that he's been booked as a tough luck underdog champion who's reign is only lasting by the skin of his teeth. But it's RAW that's gone kiddie crazy, and kids have to have a hero. It's either him or Cena, i'd rather CP Munk thanks.

VR!

Punk's character doesn't suit the 'hero' persona I don't think. Cena, with a little tweak could do it without becoming MegaCena. I know you think he's a cartoon character, I agree to an extent, but all it needs is a character modification and he wouldn't be as annoying. Despite everyone jumping on the bandwagon he's a good worker.

The character suffocates him into doing the 2 minute flourishes to win matches. I know he probably has some degree of control over his kiddie friendly promos too, but he has to remain the all-american, all-respectful, cheeky hero. But the basis is there for it to work without alienating the adult audience. WWE just doesn't care enough about that audience because the amount of kids who tune in make up for it.

imo it could also be done in such a way as to still engage the kiddies too.

That being said, this conversation isn't really about Cena. It's about Punk, and the handling of his reign, his character and his credibility which has been a shambles.

rossie1977

changing gears takeshi morishima appeared in a dark match before raw last night defeating charlie haas, looks like he is pals with cena and vince already

http://www.noah-usa.cc/newsandtopics.html

jeffk

That "new" match is a old stipulation, it was done for the hardcore belt on a ppv.

rovert

validreasoning! wrote: »

That i can't answer, but it's blatantly obvious that he's been booked as a tough luck underdog champion who's reign is only lasting by the skin of his teeth. But it's RAW that's gone kiddie crazy, and kids have to have a hero. It's either him or Cena, i'd rather CP Munk thanks.

VR!

Boo hoo

WWE hasnt changed stylistically too much recently. Stop moaning it is getting boring.

I liked Raw it was less manic than usual. The stipulation plays well into Punk's reign. Jericho will probably be added to the scramble.

rovert

For anyone who wants it:

It's the Tuesday morning post-Raw Bryan & Vinny Show~! We're back tonight to discuss CM Punk's loss, some Impact-level goofiness on the show, a GREAT angle with Jericho, and more! We've also got our usual belated Smackdown review, new songs and drops, shout-outs, and more! Best of all it's FREE, so please post the link or file elsewhere and help spread the word about figurefouronline.com!

http://media001.f4wonline.com/free/081908bvshow.mp3
http://media002.f4wonline.com/free/081908bvshow.mp3

SlickRic

rovert wrote: »

Boo hoo

WWE hasnt changed stylistically too much recently. Stop moaning it is getting boring.

I liked Raw it was less manic than usual. The stipulation plays well into Punk's reign. Jericho will probably be added to the scramble.

less manic but completely, as i said, underwhelming. It might be getting a bit boring to moan about it but its because at times there seem to be chinks of light some weeks where Raw threatens to be engaging and exciting (start of Punk's reign, HBK/Jericho build, anarchy angle where we had possible factions seeming to be formed etc)

But then last night happens and personally I feel a little robbed.

Raw could so easily be more engaging, it just seems imo to not be putting enough into it. If there were never any signs of improvement one wouldn't have to moan because we'd know exactly where we stand. Maybe it's me wishing for years gone by, I dunno, but i think it has the potential to be better.

The challenge may play into the reign, but in all fairness it's a weak reign. Granted we have to let it play, out but I'm just calling what I'm seeing week by week and it's a joke

rovert

SlickRic wrote: »

The challenge may play into the reign, but in all fairness it's a weak reign.

Kinda the point they are slowly building him up. So we won’t have people crying like babies about him being pushed down our throats al la Cena. Last night they had him on is own in a singles match headlining Raw, his reign is progressing.

SlickRic

rovert wrote: »

Kinda the point they are slowly building him up. So we won’t have people crying like babies about him being pushed down our throats al la Cena. Last night they had him on is own in a singles match headlining Raw, his reign is progressing.

I take your point, we'll see how it plays out

rovert

SlickRic wrote: »

I take your point, we'll see how it plays out

He is only 29 and an undersized guy not in the main event mold.

In the meantime a photograph of two of the best workers in the world:

big syke

SlickRic wrote: »

The '5-Man ChampionshipChallenge' simply sounds like a bit of a carwreck waiting to happen. Everytime the title changes hands does that count as a reign? ....

bad move on the part of wwe imo. this 5 man challenge thing be-littles what is meant to be the one of the most prestigious titles a wrestler can have.

rovert

Batista slips

SlickRic

rovert wrote: »

Batista slips

id forgotten about that...even though it was the other entertaining moment of the night

Rjd2

Surely somebody else apart from the tag champs could have jobbed to Cena last night?:rolleyes:

rovert

Rjd2 wrote: »

Surely somebody else apart from the tag champs could have jobbed to Cena last night?:rolleyes:

Not really, Cena needed a strong win after loss at Summerslam.

Bubs101

Is there any backstage reason why Cena is losing so much on PPV that's been reported in the Observer Rovert or is he just putting people over?

Prufrock

Beating the tag champs on his own.....didn't like it when HHH did it and I don't like it when Cena does it. Makes a joke of them. I mean these guys are ment to be the best team on Raw. They should never be beaten by a single guy. :rolleyes:

Sounds like a filler til next weeks Raw.

rossie1977

Prufrock wrote: »

Beating the tag champs on his own.....didn't like it when HHH did it and I don't like it when Cena does it. Makes a joke of them. I mean these guys are ment to be the best team on Raw. They should never be beaten by a single guy. :rolleyes:

Sounds like a filler til next weeks Raw.

it also makes no sense, last week cena was pinned by the dibiase and rhodes despite having a partner and this week beats them on his own

Bubs101 wrote:

Is there any backstage reason why Cena is losing so much on PPV that's been reported in the Observer Rovert or is he just putting people over?

when you remove all the bs talked about cena his ppv record apart from 2007 was quite poor, in 2006 he jobbed 5 times on ppv in 11 appearances i believe

Bubs101

But it was his 2007 that got on people's tits. I had no problem with him until he won a first blood match due to internal bleeding

rovert

Bubs101 wrote: »

Is there any backstage reason why Cena is losing so much on PPV that's been reported in the Observer Rovert or is he just putting people over?

Youve two options really with a top babyface after a long time at the top a) turn him heel or b) rest him and cycle him down the card for a time. They choose b.

callaway92

I like the way when Batista fell Michael Cole said "Batista obviously still showing the effects of his injured knee" :rolleyes:

Vince135792003

The Jericho segment opening the show was good I thought. The crowd were really into the angle and the video package was perfect.

Fozzy

I liked Raw more than some recent ones. It kept me entertained

SlickRic wrote: »

Jericho's promo, though intense as usual, was utterly pointless and didnt do anything to move forward a story that has been pretty well paced so far (as has been discussed in another thread). He basically re-capped wat had happened, then did a watered-version of the promo he did to HBK's face at SS.

Well, there's a point to that. Less than 1/20th of the Raw audience would have seen what happened on the PPV. So Jericho's promo brought them up to speed. No point in advancing a big angle like that without allowing it to have its full effect

I'm not sure about this title match at Unforgiven. There's obviously going to be some title changes, but they'll be weak title wins. I'm sure JBL will get a title reign but it seems pointless. Could still be an interesting match though

I have no problem with Punk losing. I honestly don't get why people expect him to be winning all of a sudden. Jericho beat him clean less than five months ago, the day after Wrestlemania. What has happened in the meantime? Punk's won the title. But has he improved or learned anything more? Not enough to beat Jericho. I don't see why there should be a problem with this. It's completely logical. If he suddenly started beating all these top guys as soon as he won the title it would have made no sense at all

Something I've been meaning to mention for weeks now, Rhodes and DiBiase's music. Someone here, Double C I think, said something about Pink Floyd taking action about their music when it was first used (at the PPV that they won the belts), because it sounded so similar to Money. Since then it's been sped up a lot and doesn't sound much like it. I just found it funny

ShawnRaven

Fozzy wrote: »

Double C I think, said something about Pink Floyd taking action about their music when it was first used (at the PPV that they won the belts), because it sounded so similar to Money. Since then it's been sped up a lot and doesn't sound much like it. I just found it funny

I'm not so sure that's the case about a threatened lawsuit, I certainly wasn't aware of it. I think they just sped it up and added guitar distortion to blend in DiBiase's and Rhodes music together.

VR!

Fozzy

validreasoning! wrote: »

I'm not so sure that's the case about a threatened lawsuit, I certainly wasn't aware of it. I think they just sped it up and added guitar distortion to blend in DiBiase's and Rhodes music together.

I really doubt that there was a lawsuit, but the fact remains that the song changed. I don't know about blending the music together, how many times did DiBiase actually use the music on his own?

EdK

Mike Chioda to get released for laughing at Batista hehe

CMpunked

Whats Kanes new music like? And similarities to his previous one?

Fozzy

Comic-Book-Guy wrote: »

Whats Kanes new music like? And similarities to his previous one?

It's like his original music but a bit different

D.Q

First off, Hello...

I read over these threads alot,I find them interesting. I have never had the urge to get involved in the discussion(as you can see) but this weeks Raw, was a disgrace.

My main problem with raw for the past few weeks has been the ridiculous Kane angle.
I like/liked Kanes character. I am a fan of the bigger guys, and I feel with Kanes character/music etc he brings drama to the table. So at the start of the "alive or dead" story, I was pretty excited. I figured It'd spice up his character, and have something to do with either Vince or the undertakers return. But...No. apparently.. Kane has "Never liked" Rey Mysterio.What lazy writing. What sort of chemistry are they aiming for here? How can anyone become emotionally invested in Kane Vs Rey Mysterio.Except for the fact that they both wear masks theres no viable connection.

My prediction... With the quality of this angle... The return of hurricane helms at unforgiven. An ademlie original. Mask Match.

And another thing!!! why did BATISTA come out? Does he like rey??

My other concern, is the half arsed attempt at the vince storyline. The continued announcement from shane and steph generated consistent interest at least. Now theres nothing!! did anyone else notice that it advertised a blockbuster announcement from shane and steff before an add break? then ademlie came out and said he had the announcement, which was the championship scramble... I dont think that makes too much sense. what do they have to do with that?? Im interested to see where the vince angle will go.

Right. didnt expect to have such a rant. Back to guest-land!!

callaway92

DieselQueen wrote: »

First off, Hello...

I read over these threads alot,I find them interesting. I have never had the urge to get involved in the discussion(as you can see) but this weeks Raw, was a disgrace.

My main problem with raw for the past few weeks has been the ridiculous Kane angle.
I like/liked Kanes character. I am a fan of the bigger guys, and I feel with Kanes character/music etc he brings drama to the table. So at the start of the "alive or dead" story, I was pretty excited. I figured It'd spice up his character, and have something to do with either Vince or the undertakers return. But...No. apparently.. Kane has "Never liked" Rey Mysterio.What lazy writing. What sort of chemistry are they aiming for here? How can anyone become emotionally invested in Kane Vs Rey Mysterio.Except for the fact that they both wear masks theres no viable connection.

My prediction... With the quality of this angle... The return of hurricane helms at unforgiven. An ademlie original. Mask Match.

And another thing!!! why did BATISTA come out? Does he like rey??

My other concern, is the half arsed attempt at the vince storyline. The continued announcement from shane and steph generated consistent interest at least. Now theres nothing!! did anyone else notice that it advertised a blockbuster announcement from shane and steff before an add break? then ademlie came out and said he had the announcement, which was the championship scramble... I dont think that makes too much sense. what do they have to do with that?? Im interested to see where the vince angle will go.

Right. didnt expect to have such a rant. Back to guest-land!!

He is a former Smackdown Tag Champ with Rey so Id assume he likes him one way or another

D.Q

callaway92 wrote: »

He is a former Smackdown Tag Champ with Rey so Id assume he likes him one way or another

ahhh.. I did NOT know that. Cheers. It makes me marginally happier to know theres SOME history. I really wasnt too into smackdown until recently. Im a raw man. Although Im straying. Thanks.:):)

ShawnRaven

Fozzy wrote: »

I really doubt that there was a lawsuit, but the fact remains that the song changed. I don't know about blending the music together, how many times did DiBiase actually use the music on his own?

The 3 or 4 times he interrupted Cody & Holly on RAW each week before Cody turned. Not many times, i know, but enough for people to remember the music.

Hell, i remember Shawn's original string and piano music before his Sexy Boy theme, or the one week Randy Orton had the theme that CP Munk has now, when Orton was on SD around the time he turned on Stacy Kiebler to return to heel.

VR!

Tricity Bendix

Fozzy wrote: »

I have no problem with Punk losing. I honestly don't get why people expect him to be winning all of a sudden. Jericho beat him clean less than five months ago, the day after Wrestlemania. What has happened in the meantime? Punk's won the title. But has he improved or learned anything more? Not enough to beat Jericho. I don't see why there should be a problem with this. It's completely logical. If he suddenly started beating all these top guys as soon as he won the title it would have made no sense at all

Punk has beaten Jericho before (King of the Ring). Whats different about Punk with the belt versus Punk without the belt? Well, they can play up the whole 'heart of a chmpion' thing, how holding on to that title means more to Punk than anything else, how proving himself to be more than a transitional champion is motivating him to up his game to greater heights.

Double C

Teds original theme can be heard here. It borrows a lot from Money by Pink Floyd. It's a lot better than the new one too!

SlickRic

b.ie curious wrote: »

Punk has beaten Jericho before (King of the Ring). Whats different about Punk with the belt versus Punk without the belt? Well, they can play up the whole 'heart of a chmpion' thing, how holding on to that title means more to Punk than anything else, how proving himself to be more than a transitional champion is motivating him to up his game to greater heights.

+1

although i understand the idea that Punk beating Jericho might not make much sense, in the sense that 'how far could he have come in a short time?'...i think the fact champion means so much to him should be able to propel him a bit higher.

But as I've said before, ill see how it plays out before i make a definitive call on it. I just call what i see at the time i suppose

Endaaaagh

Did anyone notice the 2 clowns at ringside during the Batista match. They were booing Batista very loudly and even started a "Lets go Burchill" chant. They mysteriously disappeared after the match. I wonder were they moved????

Brolly

DieselQueen wrote: »

And another thing!!! why did BATISTA come out? Does he like rey??

It has always been very open that Batista and Rey are great friends. You only have to look back at last year when they had to go up against eachother and Cole was saying how hard it was for both men to go against eachother for the title. Of course they stuck Khali into the mix in that match!

citytillidie

Kane-N-Nite wrote: »

KANES NEW THEME SONG :eek::eek::eek:

Its just a new version of his old music

citytillidie

Endaaaagh wrote: »

Did anyone notice the 2 clowns at ringside during the Batista match. They were booing Batista very loudly and even started a "Lets go Burchill" chant. They mysteriously disappeared after the match. I wonder were they moved????

Yea i noticed that too, think they were moved to the none camera side.

Also seemed in the main event others in the same section were going for Jericho

Terry

DieselQueen wrote: »

First off, Hello...

I read over these threads alot,I find them interesting. I have never had the urge to get involved in the discussion(as you can see) but this weeks Raw, was a disgrace.

My main problem with raw for the past few weeks has been the ridiculous Kane angle.
I like/liked Kanes character. I am a fan of the bigger guys, and I feel with Kanes character/music etc he brings drama to the table. So at the start of the "alive or dead" story, I was pretty excited. I figured It'd spice up his character, and have something to do with either Vince or the undertakers return. But...No. apparently.. Kane has "Never liked" Rey Mysterio.What lazy writing. What sort of chemistry are they aiming for here? How can anyone become emotionally invested in Kane Vs Rey Mysterio.Except for the fact that they both wear masks theres no viable connection.

My prediction... With the quality of this angle... The return of hurricane helms at unforgiven. An ademlie original. Mask Match.

And another thing!!! why did BATISTA come out? Does he like rey??

My other concern, is the half arsed attempt at the vince storyline. The continued announcement from shane and steph generated consistent interest at least. Now theres nothing!! did anyone else notice that it advertised a blockbuster announcement from shane and steff before an add break? then ademlie came out and said he had the announcement, which was the championship scramble... I dont think that makes too much sense. what do they have to do with that?? Im interested to see where the vince angle will go.

Right. didnt expect to have such a rant. Back to guest-land!!

I did notice that.

What the **** is going on there?

rovert

Terry wrote: »

I did notice that.

What the **** is going on there?

It is a new concept headlining the PPV, they wanted to hype it. It is what Wrestling promotions do.

callaway92

They did the same for NWO this year putting on this year having 2 elimination chambers and having the big announcement before it