A simple idea to reduce road deaths?

Owen

veetwin wrote: »

Have a law similar to those in certain US States where you must use full dipped headlights when your wipers are on?

I'm sure it would be enforced as perfectly as the rest of our meaningless road safety laws. Please keep the thread on topic as requested.

Andrewf20

I believe this measure will help, but alot of other small changes are needed to make a sizeable difference, but ultimetly what needs fixing is the tricky but fundamental topic of driver behaviour.

peasant

gsxr1 wrote: »

as a biker I would campaign against you on cats eyes on country roads.

A biker will use both sides of the road when safe to do so, for better visibility. Its bad enough trying to deal with white lines in the wet.

cats eyes upset the bike while leaned over . Plus they are slippy when wet.

That's a bit of a non-argument there ...just stay between the lines /eyes. you can get good visibility by staying on the left of the middle line as well.

(I ride a bike myself, so I do know what I'm talking about
...it's a bit foolish to commit yourself to lean into a bend on the wrong side of the road anyway (even if only partially) even when you think that there's nothing coming)

luckat

It's a good idea. If it just cuts down the deaths and injuries *not* caused by boy racers, it's still a good idea.

gsxr1

ned78 wrote: »

And as a Ducati owner (Read : biker), I'd argue for them. There's no excuse for a biker being over the line, even when riding defensively and using all the road to increase visibility. Plus, the majority of bikes I've owned, and ridden (With the exception of the Blackbird, and BMW K1200S) have exceptionally poor headlamps, and would benefit more from additional visibility in corners.

Plus, oncoming cars would have their side of the road defined for them, thereby reducing the potential for a car to stray onto your side of the road and hit a vunerable biker head on.

I can see the benefits of what you are saying. But believe that most bikers do use the whole road for line and observation. Whether peeps agree with us doing that is beside the point.

If the white line is broken there is no rules at stop us crossing them when safe.(as far as I know) .

Depending on the road off course. Take the gap for instance. You can quite safely and legally use the whole road as it is so open.
Plus as you already know . We filter and over take alot. riding over the cats eyes while on the gas.

I do primarily agree with cats eyes on major roads. But think back roads should be left out.

If rider or driver is going faster than there ability then they should probably back off a little, and go home and learn about the vanishing point of a corner.


Edit: I dont bike at night. lights on most bikes are terrible.

Quazzie

I agree wholeheartedly with both Ned and ninety9er. Cats eyes and proper illuminated road signs warning of a turn should be mandatory on all roads. It does not encourage faster driving but instead would just eradicate carelessness and complacency. Driving at night is a hazard, and a major cause of this is the lack of clear visible turns, and also unexpected changes in gradient on roads, both of which would be highlighted by the introduction of cats eyes and proper well places and reflective signs.

To eradicate the impact on bikers as stated above I think the introduction of cats eyes on the road sides would be enough on thin country roads as sometimes they aren't wide enough to warrant the central lines. The cats eyes on verges are also used to forewarn of entrances and exits to the road and is IMO a vital aspect of your campaign that as yet not being highlighted. This is a campaign I would seriously back and could seriously see being really effevtive. Effective, common sense and RSA however do not seem to always go hand in hand.

Sorry for slightly going off topic but I also agree with nintey9er about Gandalf23's comments which imo are totally ludicris because it just goes to show his ignorance on the subject. To place all of the roads problems on 'boy racers' is absolutely absurd and ridiculous. To dismiss a possible solution to some of the problems as it doesn't take "the boy racer effect into consideration" is even more so and in fact imo is more than slightly moronic. I'm 27, I drive a 2 litre car. it is modified (not to go faster, but just to look better) and I sometimes break the speed limit when I feel it is safe to do so. Am I a 'boy racer'?? If I am its news to me and my insurance company.

ART6

I don't have any info on it, but I understand that in some places in the USA they use ground recycled glass mixed with tar to surface roads. That way the whole road glows faintly in headlights, and cat's eyes aren't needed.

Del2005

I think this is a good idea.

Was driving to Knock Airport a few years ago on backs roads not going fast but still had to break the odd time when the road disappeared. Came back a different road which had been resurfaced and proper cats eyes where on it, was much easier to drive and didn't have to hit the brakes as the road never disappeared.

Gandalf23

Quazzie2002 wrote: »

Sorry for slightly going off topic but I also agree with nintey9er about Gandalf23's comments which imo are totally ludicris because it just goes to show his ignorance on the subject. To place all of the roads problems on 'boy racers' is absolutely absurd and ridiculous. To dismiss a possible solution to some of the problems as it doesn't take "the boy racer effect into consideration" is even more so and in fact imo is more than slightly moronic. I'm 27, I drive a 2 litre car. it is modified (not to go faster, but just to look better) and I sometimes break the speed limit when I feel it is safe to do so. Am I a 'boy racer'?? If I am its news to me and my insurance company.

Where to start!

Firstly, I didnt "place all of the roads problems on boy racers" or "dismiss a possible solution" ... I'd love you to show me where I said either of these things. So either quote me specifically or I'll dismiss you as a troll who is obviously talking sh1te.

In fact if you had bothered to read my posts properly you would be able to see where I said very clearly that the OP's idea will save lives. You can read cant you? If so, have a more carefull look at my posts... maybe even print them out... you might be able to read them more easily like that.

I think the fact that you are contributing to a thread on road safety and at the same time admitting that you "sometimes break the speed limit" in your little "modified" car says all we need to know about you.

As you say, "more than slightly moronic".

Quazzie

Gandalf23 wrote: »

Any attempt to reduce road deaths has to take the "boy racer" effect into consideration,

Gandalf23 wrote: »

Where to start!

Firstly, I didnt "place all of the roads problems on boy racers" or "dismiss a possible solution" ... I'd love you to show me where I said either of these things..

Maybe your old Daily Mail reading old brain is getting so forgetful you are actually forgetting your own posts.

Now back on topic FTW

maidhc

Fantastic idea. Id be all for it.

It has happened me more than once that I have been driving on a lovely straight road that has a 90 degree bend at the end without warning.

Gandalf23

Quazzie2002 wrote: »

Maybe your old Daily Mail reading old brain is getting so forgetful you are actually forgetting your own posts.

Now back on topic FTW

I know you havent been around here too long, but personal abuse is not allowed here. Post reported.

Now would you like to have another try at showing everyone where I blamed ...

Quazzie2002 wrote: »

... all of the roads problems on 'boy racers'

or where I ...

Quazzie2002 wrote: »

... dismiss[ed] a possible solution ...

If you can that is. Which I doubt, because I didnt say either.

And well done for taking this thread off topic.

Quazzie

PM Sent. End of discussion. back on topic

peasant

Gandalf23 wrote: »

Post reported.

Stop reporting posts, there is no "abuse" here.
Back on topic.

carchaeologist

Yes,its a sound idea alright,but surely if people were taught how to drive properly within the limits of their abilitys and road conditions there would be less need to illuminate every thing.

Test:ask 10 friends of yours that drive tomorrow what understeer,oversteer and aquaplaning are and see what answers you get...

peasant

carchaeologist wrote: »

Yes,its a sound idea alright,but surely if people were taught how to drive properly within the limits of their abilitys and road conditions there would be less need to illuminate every thing.

Test:ask 10 friends of yours that drive tomorrow what understeer,oversteer and aquaplaning are and see what answers you get...

Nonetheless, it would improve things massively if you were given the chance to see a possible over- or understeer coming ...even if you knew what it was

carchaeologist

peasant wrote: »

Nonetheless, it would improve things massively if you were given the chance to see a possible over- or understeer coming ...even if you knew what it was

Yes,i do agree with that.

unkel

Catseyes FTW. I don't know how much it would cost to install them on all roads, but we could start with our most dangerous roads (based on death / serious injury statistics). Or if this turns out to be too expensive, a phased implementation by starting on roads that are being resurfaced anyway

Another thing is not just properly illuminated signs that announce bends, but signs that have an advisory speed on them as well. Works well in many other countries where I've driven

Steve

unkel wrote: »

...signs that have an advisory speed on them as well.

seconded* - that's a great idea, I've seen it a lot in the states, especially on freeway off ramps that have a tight curve.



*careful though, it a bit off topic and ned might ban you from his thread...:pac:

gsxr1

SteveC wrote: »

seconded* - that's a great idea, I've seen it a lot in the states, especially on freeway off ramps that have a tight curve.



*careful though, it a bit off topic and ned might ban you from his thread...:pac:

But in defence of our roads. Most bad bends are posted with road paint and signs.

Steve

gsxr1 wrote: »

But in defence of our roads. Most bad bends are posted with road paint and signs.

A lot of them are and a lot of them aren't, as I said earlier, without consistency there's no point. If you come to rely on warnings and then come across a bend without the signs then you're mince. If there were no warnings or if the motoring public (as is mostly the case now) distrust a lot of speed limits then they must think more about what speed is actually safe .

keane2097

ned78 wrote: »

So how about it? Lets take all the money from the RSA's morbid advertising campaigns, and put it into cats eyes on every road.

This.

TheNog

WHITE_P wrote: »

I'm open to correction on this, but I heard someone discussing it on the radio awhile back and every accident that requires the emergency services to attend where someone is seriously injured or killed, costs the tax payer approx. €250,000,

The real cost is closer to €1 million per fatality or so we were told in the college

[/QUOTE] I've tried to find infomation from RSA, local councils etc. to support this but haven't come accross anything to back it up yet.[/QUOTE]

The information is out there but tbh I don't know where it is or who has control over it. In recent times when a RTC is investigated we have to give precise location of the RTC. Overall the information of a material damage only RTC is quite detailed even through Gardai are not trained collision investigators. Of course for serious injury or fatals the detail is even greater with collision scene investigators, photos and in some cases even aerial photos.

gsxr1 wrote: »

as a biker I would campaign against you on cats eyes on country roads.

A biker will use both sides of the road when safe to do so, for better visibility. Its bad enough trying to deal with white lines in the wet.

While I understand that cats eyes are slippy a biker should never use both sides of the road even when it seems empty.

gsxr1 wrote: »

But in defence of our roads. Most bad bends are posted with road paint and signs.

That is true. Most black spots I know of have either had a serious face lift or removed all together.

OP I give you my full backing. Even though it will not save all lives on the road, it will save some. There is no one solution to our road death problems.

OuterBombie

Howdy,

Definitely agree with the original posters suggestion. During March of this year we spent a month in New Zealand on a driving tour in a campervan.

The B/C roads there are similar to our own except they all have cateyes and signage on all corners indicating the severeness of the corner and the suggested speed for taking it. I found them simple and extremely effective, especially on roads that I had never driven before. The road surface was generally better than here also but sure thats another story :mad:

That said, they also had a road-death issue, and had strong ad campaigns around speeding and drowziness.

Its a simple solution and one that should have been implemented already.

Ray.

BrianD3

I have read that the Irish road network is 95,000 km, the vast majority of this network is composed of regional and lower roads, while some regional roads have catseyes most don't IME and I have never seen a county/local road with catseyes. So it would be a massive undertaking to install catseyes on every road in the country, even if you leave out the centre line and only do the sides you're probably talking about tens of millions of catseye units.

If you concentrate on just regional roads and making sure that national roads are up to standard then it would be a lot less.

How much does it cost to buy and install a catseye unit? What is the lifespan of a unit? What maintenance does it require?

If you could find some "expert" to estimate that your proposed catseye installation would save 20 lives a year and each life saved is worth 1 million you could compare that to the cost of installing and maintaining the catseyes.

Biro

I remember this being discussed a number of years ago on TV or the radio or something. Like now, many in favour of it, and that's it. If you're serious there's no point in going on Matt Cooper or who ever and saying "I've got 50 people on boards.ie who agree with me that cats eyes are needed".
You need to get the cost of installation of cats eyes, the cost of road accidents on average - not just ones with fatalities, cost of road improvement and upgrade, a study on areas in the country where there are a high percentage of accidents and what the roads are like there and a study on where the lowest percentage of accidents and what the roads are like there in order to gather a proper feasability study on it, otherwise it'll be just another rant on a radio station.
Local council money goes into cats eyes, so it's not as if the government sends out a squad of men from Dublin to fill up the countries roads with cats eyes. Because of that it'll be hard to convince all county councils to make it a priority.

Owen

There are some excellent points made on this page, especially in terms of a debating argument for the media.

What I'd love to see happen, is for them to choose a high risk area where road deaths are prevalent at night, and pilot the scheme for a year, catseyes on every corner, and recommended cornering speeds for each road in this chosen area. Then statistically compare the accident rates before and after the trial period.

AFAIK, a catseye unit to buy is around £8 Sterling. There are much cheaper versions being trial manufactured currently. Also, here in Cork on the lead up to the halfway roundabout between Innishannon and Bishopstown, we have solar powered LED catseyes. They're exceptionally effective, and at night time glow blue of their own accord - blue being proven in a recent study as a colour of choice to stimulate alertness and fend off drowsiness.

daveharnett

BrianD3 wrote: »

How much does it cost to buy and install a catseye unit? What is the lifespan of a unit? What maintenance does it require?

I like the OP's idea in principle, but I couldn't say much without more knowledge of the nuts and bolts. Can catseyes be added to an existing road with a pile driver or some such, or do they need to be buried in when a road is resurfaced?

I would guess that signposting every significant bend with an angle and recommended speed (as other posters have suggested), and adding reflective striping at the outside of the bend might be more economically viable.

However, a good (and fairly cheap) first step would be to put some paint on every road. There are more unlined roads in the country than some urban boardsies might realise.

ShadowHearth

best way: Just ban all supervisional drivers of the road, and make proper driving schools and minimum 20h driving with instructor, before applying to your test.

Roads are not the problem, problem is a gap between seat and steering wheel, which just DONT know how to drive.

Quazzie

daveharnett wrote: »

I like the OP's idea in principle, but I couldn't say much without more knowledge of the nuts and bolts. Can catseyes be added to an existing road with a pile driver or some such, or do they need to be buried in when a road is resurfaced?

I would guess that signposting every significant bend with an angle and recommended speed (as other posters have suggested), and adding reflective striping at the outside of the bend might be more economically viable.

However, a good (and fairly cheap) first step would be to put some paint on every road. There are more unlined roads in the country than some urban boardsies might realise.

+1

I think clear and efficient sign posting is the feasable answer.