How did the nazi's know jews were jews?

diverdriver

To answer the original question, How did they know? Well the answer is simple, it wasn't a secret. Everyone knew who the Jews were. It was true in any country. Back then, everyone knew. It was the same when I was growing up not too long ago. We knew who was protestant, Jewish or whatever. If it came time to round up people, it's easy. We all knew for example, who the local IRA men were and the supporters. We knew who had relatives serving in the British military. Everyone knew, who did what and what they were.

The question could only be asked by someone living in a city in modern times where it hardly matters who or what your origins are. Even so, I'll bet most of you can name people locally who aren't Irish Catholic.

As for IBM, well the case is far from proved. In any case there is a massive amount of hindsight being applied here as usual. I speak as a former IBMer, the current company has little to be ashamed of.

gizmo555

Morlar wrote: »

That article is one big advert for a flimsy book, & trust me the book is even more over-dramatic.

I have read the book myself thank you. It is true that Black is an argumentative and tendentious writer. You may disagree with his conclusions, but the facts in the book and the article I referenced speak for themselves and IBM has never denied any of them.

Can I ask in particular why you persist in asserting that IBM was no longer supplying the Nazi regime by the time the war started, when this is manifestly untrue? As we have seen, after the invasion of Poland it established a subsidiary there which was under the direct control of IBM in the US until that country entered the war in December 1941. We have also seen that Thomas Watson personally approved the supply of new equipment to the Nazis after the fall of Poland in 1939.

Morlar wrote: »

Dehomag were a company in Germany - Germany was at war and the controlling NSDAP had extremely close ties to private industry. If dehomag had said 'no we refuse to continue to service our equipment per our agreement as we do not agree with nsdap policy' they would have been shutdown and sold off.

"We were only following orders" . . . that defence went down well at Nuremberg. Indeed, many of the industrialists you refer to were tried there. Of course, they didn't have the protection of a US owner.

Morlar

gizmo555 wrote: »

I have read the book myself thank you. It is true that Black is an argumentative and tendentious writer.

So have I unfortunately and no argument there.

gizmo555 wrote: »

You may disagree with his conclusions, but the facts in the book and the article I referenced speak for themselves and IBM has never denied any of them.

What are the facts of that book ? There is an over abundance of information but next to none of it is actually relevant when you break it down.

There are chapters where the author switches to a narrative, going into great detective pulp fiction like detail describing ragged jews looking at shiny tabulating machines while dodging ss men who try to punch them whenever they get within range, all the while the ticking clock of high-drama ups the momentum, cut to 'Thomas J Watson steps from his limousine' followed by the punchline 'on madison avenue'. It's a ridiculous book for the most part.

gizmo555 wrote: »

Can I ask in particular why you persist in asserting that IBM was no longer supplying the Nazi regime by the time the war started, when this is manifestly untrue?

This is the level of flimsiness these allegations come down to ?

Dehomag was in Germany. Germany was at war. IBM had no direct control over the war, Germany or their subsidiary company Dehomag (think of a collection of sales representatives, a office building and a network of technicians on the ground) who were servicing the machines which were used by the germans to gather data. What the Germans did with the gathered data was also unknown to both Dehomag in Germany and IBM in new york.

gizmo555 wrote: »

As we have seen, after the invasion of Poland it established a subsidiary there which was under the direct control of IBM in the US until that country entered the war in December 1941.

You are referring to the 'general government' subsidiary ? So what ?

USA was not at war with Germany or Russia after both countries invaded Poland in 1939. They also had offices/subsidiaries in many capitals of europe.

gizmo555 wrote: »

We have also seen that Thomas Watson personally approved the supply of new equipment to the Nazis after the fall of Poland in 1939.

And this is an ominous fact ? Why ? In 1939 the USA were not at war with Germany. The full extent of what happened years later was at time unknown.

gizmo555 wrote: »

"We were only following orders" . . . that defence went down well at Nuremberg. Indeed, many of the industrialists you refer to were tried there. Of course, they didn't have the protection of a US owner.

What a glib response. If you had been a dehomag service technician (who was not drafted into the army due to your profession) would you (in Germany in 1944) knowing what you would have known at that time (not much), would you have put yourself into a firing squad or guillotine execution ?

As a form of protest against things which you would not have had much knowledge about ? As for example, a man with a family would you have done any different personally speaking to the germans working for dehomag who serviced the tabulating machines ?

marcsignal

It has to be said, on reflection, that many institutions had their part to play in the Holocaust, whether they were directly linked, or indirectly part of a chain.

Chase Manhattan Bank were also recently exposed for expropriating money from Jewish refugees trying to get into the U.S. from Europe. The Allies were also more than aware of the concentration camps. They were bombing targets around, and including, Auschwitz Monowitz, because the Germans were making synthetic fuel extracted from coal there.

Jewish groups in England pleaded with the powers that be, to do something, and on more than one occasion, junior officials, who were being canvassed by these groups, were told 'not to make any further requests of this nature' by their superiors.

It would seem that Holocaust complicity has cast a very very long and embarrassing shadow reaching far beyond Nazi Germanys borders.


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