Privatise Irish Rail

mumhaabu

This is the very worst company that exists in Ireland right now, they can do absolutely nothing right, There is only one answer and it is privatisation. We need to outsource the running of all stations and trains to private companies and encourage competition. This is the sick dog of Ireland and the the Unions are entirely to blame, every worker in Irish Rail has a job for life and has no need to actually deliver anything and the word Customer Service is unheard of. We pay very expensive fares and get an absolute joke of a service.

I would glady pay another 20% to a private operator who could get it right. Burst the Unions and begin Employee recycling, ie. sack the lazy good for nothing people that are currently there and bring in new young eager staff. This cancer is systemic of the Public Service in Ireland and we will not have proper service until it is privatised and competition introduced. The bleeding heart socialist liberal idiots will not like it but most of them don't even travel only draw the dole.

We need to crush the Unions and if only Ml. O'Leary would do something to take on CIE.

Zube

mumhaabu wrote: »

There is only one answer and it is privatisation.

Wow, it's like an 80s timewarp! Sink the Belgrano!

Del2005

mumhaabu wrote: »

This is the very worst company that exists in Ireland right now, they can do absolutely nothing right, There is only one answer and it is privatisation. We need to outsource the running of all stations and trains to private companies and encourage competition. This is the sick dog of Ireland and the the Unions are entirely to blame, every worker in Irish Rail has a job for life and has no need to actually deliver anything and the word Customer Service is unheard of. We pay very expensive fares and get an absolute joke of a service.

I would glady pay another 20% to a private operator who could get it right. Burst the Unions and begin Employee recycling, ie. sack the lazy good for nothing people that are currently there and bring in new young eager staff. This cancer is systemic of the Public Service in Ireland and we will not have proper service until it is privatised and competition introduced. The bleeding heart socialist liberal idiots will not like it but most of them don't even travel only draw the dole.

We need to crush the Unions and if only Ml. O'Leary would do something to take on CIE.

While I agree that the place is riddled with unionised bad working pratice. We don't have to look too far to see how privitisation doesn't work.

Over in the UK they have all private public transport and outside of London it is next to useless. And the only reason why London is OK is because they took control back from the private companies.

What we need is a powerful transport coordinator who isn't afraid to bash some heads, while allowing private and public providers bid for routes.

invincibleirish

mumhaabu wrote: »

This is the very worst company that exists in Ireland right now, they can do absolutely nothing right, There is only one answer and it is privatisation. We need to outsource the running of all stations and trains to private companies and encourage competition. This is the sick dog of Ireland and the the Unions are entirely to blame, every worker in Irish Rail has a job for life and has no need to actually deliver anything and the word Customer Service is unheard of. We pay very expensive fares and get an absolute joke of a service.

I would glady pay another 20% to a private operator who could get it right. Burst the Unions and begin Employee recycling, ie. sack the lazy good for nothing people that are currently there and bring in new young eager staff. This cancer is systemic of the Public Service in Ireland and we will not have proper service until it is privatised and competition introduced. The bleeding heart socialist liberal idiots will not like it but most of them don't even travel only draw the dole.

We need to crush the Unions and if only Ml. O'Leary would do something to take on CIE.

I think you should tell us first you're bad experience, no doubt a train never turned up/was too full or whatever as thats usually the thinking i use when IE mess up.

mumhaabu

Yes I has a very bad experience over the last two days while attempting to book tickets to Dublin for the All-Ireland semi-final on Sunday between Cork and Kerry. Now I admit travelling on these dates is vastly over subscribed but here goes.

Rang Irish Rail in Killarney umpteen times after about the 15th time they eventually answered and gave me "we don't know anything and all the trains are sold out"

Rang Irish Rail in Tralee no answer at all after about 20 attempts

Rang Irish Rail in Dublin was told that there was "Special excursion" trains on sale this morning after Killarney telling me they were all sold out.

I was trying to book the normal train from Killarney, so Yesterday evening at around 6.00pm they made more carriages available yet you could see they were there but couldn't actually book them online as the website is so antiquated and it pay or check price never came up. After spending the guts of 3 hours hitting refresh on three separate computers it then showed sold out.

Apparently there is no specials being put on as the Drivers don't work Sundays, they'd work it if they were in a Private Company. Scumbags.

All Priority is been given to Cork and all capacity is taken at the connecting trains so now this afternoon you have the farcical situation of buying a Train ticket from Killarney to Mallow and no onward connection available, they made capacity available at around 12.30 but with no trains down in the evening.

Irish Rail made no announcement on their website or in the media and have been drip feeding tickets so as to artificially create shortages. And to top it off you can only buy tickets online when about 90% of people in Kerry and West Cork have absolutely no functional internet access. I myself have. Killarney Station serves the entire of South Kerry and all West Cork yet they treat the travelling fan in total contempt. I myself was roared at on the phone by various staff of Irish Rail when I was simply enquiring for information.

What Irish Rail have done is totally unacceptable and it should revert to the system whereby the tickets went on sale at a said time on Wednesday Morning at 7.30am as was always the case, and you could then book them either through phone, internet or at the station. I once queued from 5AM to get train tickets to an All-Ireland final but it was a system that worked unlike the farcical system now where it seems to be an IP lottery to get through to the servers to actually book anything.

The GAA then have http://www.culgreen.ie/ promoting a green Croke Park, fat chance of that happening when the vast majority of fans cannot avail of Public transport to the Capital for the day. I myself will now be travelling by car and will happily spew out 220g/km of Co2 as I have no choice as Irish Rail are so inept.

Irish Rail and a thundering disgrace and should purge the majority of their staff and be ran by the private sector on an bi-annual tendering process.

BendiBus

mumhaabu wrote: »

And to top it off you can only buy tickets online when about 90% of people in Kerry and West Cork have absolutely no functional internet access.

The fault of a semi-state company that got privatised It's not all rosy in the private sector either.

mumhaabu

BendiBus wrote: »

The fault of a semi-state company that got privatised It's not all rosy in the private sector either.

I don't want to go off topic, however the network was privatised and what I propose with Irish Rail is the network and associated ancillary building be kept by the state and outsource all activities. If that happened with Eircom things would be different, allthough it may end up back in the states hands anyway as B&B are practically insolvent.

A Dub in Glasgo

Del2005 wrote: »

While I agree that the place is riddled with unionised bad working pratice. We don't have to look too far to see how privitisation doesn't work.

Over in the UK they have all private public transport and outside of London it is next to useless. And the only reason why London is OK is because they took control back from the private companies.

It is not next to useless outside London. In fact the service is excellent where I live. The one thing that is not in dispute about the situation in Britain is the cost to taxpayers have increased massively for the particular way BR was privatised

icdg

Indeed BR is possibly the one of the worst examples of privatisation any government anywhere has ever undertaken. And I'm by no means a critic of privatisation in general.

The British Railways Board, one single organisation, was broken up into about 125 different companies. Everything about the GB railway is dealt with through a hugely complicated set of contracts drawn up by BRB lawyers back in 1994. There are 25 or so train operating companies who own nothing other than a licence to run trains really. The rolling stock is owned by three companies who are in turned own by banks and have become basically a licence to print money. The network is owned by Network Rail, a not-for-profit entity after Railtrack PLC collapsed and is essentially re-nationalised.

To regulate this mess you have had since 1994 anything up to five regulators at one stage. Buck passing is ripe and the temptation for train operators to promise big spending that they might not be able to afford in order to retain their franchise is ripe. (About the only good thing that did come out of rail privatisation in GB is the mass of new trains brought in, about the only thing train companies could promise to spend money on since they don't own their tracks).

Privatised railways generally do not work. New Zealand has just recently renationalised the passanger train operations which were privatised in the early 1990s. Even in that bastion of private ownership, the United States, intercity rail services are run by a government owned company, Amtrak.

strassenwolf

I'm still not sure what the overall problem is, or why it is here in this guise.

If the issue is the alleged poor internet access in Cork and Kerry - an infrastructure issue - could a mod please change the title?

If the issue is with Irish Rail's alleged poor service, why is this in the infrastructure forum?

the_syco

mumhaabu wrote: »

Apparently there is no specials being put on as the Drivers don't work Sundays, they'd work it if they were in a Private Company. Scumbags.

Ah... you mean you want them working 7 day shifts? Doubt there's enough working trains, nevermind train drivers, to do that.

Mailman

With Motorways to Cork and Galway coming along nicely I'd wait to see what happens with them.
The way it is managed at the moment I expect that passenger numbers will collapse once good coach services come on line and a proportion will use their cars in preference to trains once the journey time on motorway comes down a bit.
Even air transport will take a chunk of their passenger numbers.

After that Government will have more manoeuvre room as Intercity Rail will not be seen as such a VITAL piece of the public transport system.

Pgibson

the_syco wrote: »

Ah... you mean you want them working 7 day shifts? Doubt there's enough working trains, nevermind train drivers, to do that.

I worked on London Transport Underground ("The Tube") for two years.

The Tube runs 7 days a week..365 days a year..........Rostered.

Average working week for me was rostered for 39 hrs....over about 4 days usually.

No big deal. (Except when I had to do Christmas Day.)


.

markpb

mumhaabu wrote: »

Rang Irish Rail in Killarney umpteen times after about the 15th time they eventually answered and gave me "we don't know anything and all the trains are sold out" Rang Irish Rail in Tralee no answer at all after about 20 attempts.
Rang Irish Rail in Dublin was told that there was "Special excursion" trains on sale this morning after Killarney telling me they were all sold out.

Ignorant and/or useless staff..... Check.

I was trying to book the normal train from Killarney, so Yesterday evening at around 6.00pm they made more carriages available yet you could see they were there but couldn't actually book them online as the website is so antiquated and it pay or check price never came up. After spending the guts of 3 hours hitting refresh on three separate computers it then showed sold out.

Outdated and poorly implemented ticketing system... Check

Apparently there is no specials being put on as the Drivers don't work Sundays, they'd work it if they were in a Private Company. Scumbags.

Company run for the staff instead of passengers..... Check

(The drivers can't work sundays because they wouldn't be available for work on Monday. They can't hire more drivers because the unions have them so tied up in knots that you have to start as a janitor and work your way up to train driver, even if you're already fully qualified elsewhere.)

Irish Rail made no announcement on their website or in the media and have been drip feeding tickets so as to artificially create shortages.

God awful communication.... Check


After totting up your score, computer says you must be talking about: Irish Rail.

Del2005 wrote: »

Over in the UK they have all private public transport and outside of London it is next to useless. And the only reason why London is OK is because they took control back from the private companies.

London didn't take control back, they implemented a proper regulator. Privatisation works when you regulate it properly. We're not big on rules or regulations which is why privatisation sucks so often here.

kaizersoze

markpb wrote: »

After totting up your score, computer says you must be talking about: Irish Rail.

Computer didn't read the title of the post first... Check.:rolleyes:

icdg

markpb wrote: »

London didn't take control back, they implemented a proper regulator. Privatisation works when you regulate it properly. We're not big on rules or regulations which is why privatisation sucks so often here.

Probably more accurate to say that London never gave up control in the first place. Privatisation of London Buses in the late 80s/early 1990s took the form of contracting out services to private operators. While the services are privately operated, the contract specifies everything about the bus service from frequency of service down to the colour of the bus (ie, red). Wayfarer tickets (where still used, their trying to go cashless now) read London Buses not the name of the operator. One set of bus routes (East Thames Buses) is run directly by London Buses as an "example operator"

London Underground is owned by Transport for London and has never been privatised (other than line maintenance).

There have been two other semi-renationalisations: The DLR had been privately owned but is now owned by TfL and privately run on a tightly-managed outsourced contract similar to the bus operations. Likewise one BR franchise, North London Railways, is now run under tight TfL supervision (though still by a private company) as London Overground.

Pineapple stu

But they pay well
Dont you lot go and mess up my wages;).
Train drivers do work sundays hence the sunday service.
You dont have to start as a janitor to work up to a train driver. Firstly we dont have janitors ( we have a JANET ). You can come off the streets, get a form fill it in, pass the interview, pass the course and get the drivers job and go on strike the next day . The main qualification is that you have to be a pig ignorrant fecker and like trains .

marmurr1916

Funding, not privatisation, is the issue for Irish Rail. Train companies on the continent get much greater subsidies than Irish Rail does, allowing them to provide a much higher quality of service.

The latest projections from Eurostat show that Ireland (ROI) is set to have a population of 6.75 million by 2060, just over 50 years from now.

If we're really serious about long-term planning in this country we'll start investing now to meet the needs of a higher population.

We need to increase capacity and speed on our major rail lines. That will involve major investment in improving tracks and signalling and investment in locomotives and rolling stock.


We're finally within a few years of having HQDC or motorway links between Dublin and Cork, Limerick, Galway, Waterford and from Cork and Limerick to Galway.

We still need to improve the road links between Waterford and Cork and Waterford and Limerick. Once that's done, the ROI's largest urban centres will at last have a decent road network to connect them.

Once these road links are in place, we should concentrate on developing rail links to an equivalent standard.

IMO, that means lines between all these centres capable of running at least two trains per hour each way at average journey speeds of 200km/h (125 mph).

This would be a huge step-change in the current quality of the rail network but it can be achieved.

Who would have thought 10 years ago that we would have built/be building a motorway/HQDC network linking the major urban centres?

Instead of privatising our railways, we need to invest heavily in them, if necessary through increased taxation, so that they provide a viable alternative to road travel.

Pgibson

marmurr1916 wrote: »

Funding, not privatisation, is the issue for Irish Rail. l.

Ha Ha.

When I walked around Limerick Train Station a couple of years ago it was not "lack of funding" that I noticed.

It was the nauseating filth of the place.

I could have scrubbed the whole place spotless myself with a power-washer in 12 hours.

At little cost.

That filth was on the walls and on the seats for years.

Privatisation will only make the present managers rich.

Just sack them.

Then bring in managers from continental Europe where everything is surgically, antiseptically,clinically spotlessly clean and also .....The trains run on time!

.

Zube

Pgibson wrote: »

Then bring in managers from continental Europe where everything is surgically, antiseptically,clinically spotlessly clean and also .....The trains run on time!

Yes, bring us managers from Italy, 1939!

Pgibson

Zube wrote: »

Yes, bring us managers from Italy, 1939!

Managers from France,Holland,Belgium,Denmark,Luxembourg,Germany,Poland,Scandinavia,Chech Rep, Slovak Rep...etc... etc.......2008.

From Anywhere clean and well run...........even old octogenarian codgers from Italy 1939 so long as they don’t put up posters for Il Duce.

(His Slogan was: “Mussoini is Always Right”. Irish Rail’s should be: “We Are Always late.”).

.

parsi

@OP why don't you fly up?

You can do Kerry - Dub - Kerry on the day and it will only cost you eur265.74 with Ryanair (privatised, work on Sundays).

mumhaabu

I drove up for the semi-final after and I maximised my efficiency by filling the car with "lifts" to my other train ticketless supporters. I still emitted over 100Kg of Co2, thankfully through some miracle I managed to secure train tickets for the Replay this weekend. (Maybe they were reading this thread although support from Cork is much smaller this time due it being in Croke Park and the fact that the langers know Kerry will rip em apart.

More funding is not the answer, this seems to be the typical Irish solution just throw money at the situation and let the Unions gobble it up this keeping Industrial relations good leading to less strikes but worse customer service.

cymro wrote:

But they pay well
Dont you lot go and mess up my wages.
Train drivers do work sundays hence the sunday service.
You dont have to start as a janitor to work up to a train driver. Firstly we dont have janitors ( we have a JANET ). You can come off the streets, get a form fill it in, pass the interview, pass the course and get the drivers job and go on strike the next day . The main qualification is that you have to be a pig ignorrant fecker and like trains .

I rest my case I say fiar play to the CIE workers, I'd be pig ignorant and lazy if I knew I'd get away with it too and with their Unions backing them and if even as much as an eyebrow was raised about the situatuion, it would resemble a baby throwing toys out of the pram and an almight rukus would occur with the bearded lads and threats to bring the country to a standstill would occur.

What we need is less spending on the Railways, increased efficency and more money pumped into High Speed Motorways with at least a 80 to 85MPh speed limit. Personal liberty should always prevail over socialised travel.

marmurr1916 wrote:

Instead of privatising our railways, we need to invest heavily in them, if necessary through increased taxation, so that they provide a viable alternative to road travel.

From your nick I suspect you subscribe to the jerry adams doctrine, increase taxes!:rolleyes: People who say this are usually the ones who pay little or no tax. Cut Wages, Outsource, Privatise and efficency are what we need then we can look at cutting tax primarily for those who actually pay alot already.

icdg

Pgibson wrote: »

Ha Ha.

When I walked around Limerick Train Station a couple of years ago it was not "lack of funding" that I noticed.

It was the nauseating filth of the place.

I could have scrubbed the whole place spotless myself with a power-washer in 12 hours.

At little cost.

That filth was on the walls and on the seats for years.

Privatisation will only make the present managers rich.

Just sack them.

Then bring in managers from continental Europe where everything is surgically, antiseptically,clinically spotlessly clean and also .....The trains run on time!

.

Limerick? Filth? Have you been to Broombridge?!

The company certainly needs improving. But I don't think privatisation is the answer. And certainly not BRB-style break-up-everything privatisation.

Pineapple stu

You cant blame irish rail on the state of broombridge station. Blame the local scumbags who trash the place. ( Not all locals are scumbags may i add, only the junkies who wreck the station. )

Lennoxschips

We still need to improve the road links between Waterford and Cork and Waterford and Limerick. Once that's done, the ROI's largest urban centres will at last have a decent road network to connect them.

Once these road links are in place, we should concentrate on developing rail links to an equivalent standard.

So developing a Limerick-Waterford road comes first, and the Cork-Dublin rail line second?

Heisenberg1

mumhaabu wrote: »

This is the very worst company that exists in Ireland right now, they can do absolutely nothing right, There is only one answer and it is privatisation. We need to outsource the running of all stations and trains to private companies and encourage competition. This is the sick dog of Ireland and the the Unions are entirely to blame, every worker in Irish Rail has a job for life and has no need to actually deliver anything and the word Customer Service is unheard of. We pay very expensive fares and get an absolute joke of a service.

I would glady pay another 20% to a private operator who could get it right. Burst the Unions and begin Employee recycling, ie. sack the lazy good for nothing people that are currently there and bring in new young eager staff. This cancer is systemic of the Public Service in Ireland and we will not have proper service until it is privatised and competition introduced. The bleeding heart socialist liberal idiots will not like it but most of them don't even travel only draw the dole.

We need to crush the Unions and if only Ml. O'Leary would do something to take on CIE.

i dont think going private with irish rail is the answer money has only been available for the last decade or so even less than that and it takes time to create a world class transport system most of the rolling stock was 50 years old that they were using they had to replace all that so they could increase passenger numbers relay hundreds of miles of track basically resignal the entire network.if you look what happened with the u.k it was a disaster when they broke up british rail now the u.k goverment took back railtrack.i do agree there is along way to go before we get the kind of transportation system this country needs but every year there is an improvement.if you compare what the rail system was like 10 years ago to what it is today it is totally diffrent and for the better.

paulm17781

Financing is not the problem with IE, it is the attitudes of staff and management and the jobsworth culture that exists in it. Privatisation may not be the answer but the company needs a massive overhaul. Any state owned company that treats passengers (customers) as IE do, should have been overhauled a loooooong time ago.

Zombrex

mumhaabu wrote: »

More funding is not the answer, this seems to be the typical Irish solution just throw money at the situation and let the Unions gobble it up this keeping Industrial relations good leading to less strikes but worse customer service.

depends on what you want to achieve. If you want everyone to stop using the already bad rail way system that would certainly be the way to go. But then we wouldn't have a railway system, just a lot of cars and pollution.

The idea of privatization solving the problem through competition wouldn't work either. You have the nonsense like you had in England were your journey takes 5 different trains from 5 different companies. And the individual journey is limited to the one company no matter how late or bad they are because you aren't exactly going to hop on the other competing training running down the same track as you.

What we need is better management and regulation from the government. You can say that that is a pipe dream, but then so is privitization.