The Dole

ssmith6287

I reckon it should be lowered to make people appreciate work and money. It annoys me to see a que for the dole office. Many of whom 18/19/20 year olds. Why not try get an education, make something of yer lives. Before anyone says they cant afford college. I had to work 2 jobs to get through a Further Education course. Im now in an office job, not great money but at least im adding to society rather then taking away. I might sound insensitive but 1 of my mates (on the dole) asked me how much I got paid, I told him, he basically laughed and said yer mad working for that amount. This kind of attitude annoys me. I reckon People who decide who give out the dole should check all the pubs and bookies. If yer on the dole and yer caught here, yer dole gets reduced. Just annoys me that I bust my ar5e in work and these skives just get money in hand, forr doing nothing

Économiste Monétaire

Hi,

I think you're looking for this forum:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=99

"ar5e" :rolleyes:

ssmith6287

:Dgot in trouble for swearing on another one

Nah I think it effects economics aswell as politics. Make the dole getters pay tax, similar to PAYE. its a joke the way they get free money. I wasnt there but itll be the 70's and 80's all over again. The people who will suffer are the ones that wanna work

Thomas_S_Hunterson

I'd be inclined to agree somewhat.

In my opinion, the dole should cover the minimum to support life. Food and shelter.

DarkJager

And what about those of us being made redundant?? Do you think a dole to "cover the minimum to support life" is going to be of much use to us?

Économiste Monétaire

The dole is about 200 a week? So that's about 10,400 a year - how someone can live on that I don't know, even with medical cards and rent allowance. Pay tax on transfer payments? - people don't get charged tax on that low of an amount.


The dole is meant as a net to catch those who are currently searching for work - not for waste bags to live on for the rest of their lives. The system has improved. I wouldn't cut the dole - the idea of work for your dole seems like a positive step to deal with the chronically lazy. I thought you were eventually forced to go to a FAS course?

Thomas_S_Hunterson

DarkJager wrote: »

And what about those of us being made redundant?? Do you think a dole to "cover the minimum to support life" is going to be of much use to us?

Well the point of the dole is that you don't remain on it. You get looking for work ASAP.

ssmith6287

my mates 22, hes been on it since he left school. complete waster. Another one is drawing the dole and working as a security guard. The thing that annoys me is, there are plenty of jobs. But alot of people have this undeserved snobbery. I told my mate why doesnt he get a job with a cleaning company. He basically told me to fook off. Now iff i had to it id have no problem. Why do people look down on these jobs.

Économiste Monétaire

ssmith6287 wrote: »

my mates 22, hes been on it since he left school. complete waster. Another one is drawing the dole and working as a security guard. The thing that annoys me is, there are plenty of jobs. But alot of people have this undeserved snobbery. I told my mate why doesnt he get a job with a cleaning company. He basically told me to fook off. Now iff i had to it id have no problem. Why do people look down on these jobs.

Report him to Social Welfare - he won't find out who did it. You'll have a laugh and he'll get fined

Thomas_S_Hunterson

ssmith6287 wrote: »

Why do people look down on these jobs.

I think it's down to a combination of our good education system and the immigration which we have seen in the last few years.

DubArk

Sean_K wrote: »

I'd be inclined to agree somewhat.

In my opinion, the dole should cover the minimum to support life. Food and shelter.

Just a quick question.

What about the people who have paid into the system all their working lives and now through no fault of their own, find them selves in that queue??

Should the dole just cover the minimum to support life, food and shelter?

I’m gainfully employed. I do remember the eighties when I had to emigrate to the US and the UK to find work.
They were hard times but I can’t really see anyone surviving on the Dole/ Job seekers allowance for long.

Hope you never end up in that queue!

drunkmonkey

The thing that annoys me is the cost of employing someone, there's no assistance for employers unless you hire some one with a disability which isn't always possibe....
If your on the dole you should be forced to take a job even if it only pays an extra €75 more than the dole, the minimum wage is to high and needs to be dropped or some kind of attempt has to be made by the goverment to get perfectly healthy people back off the couch and back into employment...
I also think there should be a reward offered for dobbing in dole cheats and disability cheats into the social welfare..

Thomas_S_Hunterson

DubArk wrote: »

Just a quick question.

What about the people who have paid into the system all their working lives and now through no fault of their own, find them selves in that queue??

Should the dole just cover the minimum to support life, food and shelter?

I’m gainfully employed. I do remember the eighties when I had to emigrate to the US and the UK to find work.
They were hard times but I can’t really see anyone surviving on the Dole/ Job seekers allowance for long.

Hope you never end up in that queue!

If you're talking about state disability benefit, then as far as I know this is separate to the 'Dole' and should remain so and obviously should not be a bare minimum payment.

The same with the contributory state pension.

kmick

I have been on the dole. It does only cover basic expenses. 800 euro a month is not a lot to live on if you dont live at home i.e. if you are renting. If you are living at home its lots but then you are means tested and not gauranteed 800/month. And before you say then move back home - not everyone has that option if parents are deceased etc.

Économiste Monétaire

now through no fault of their own

Why do you assume it is not their fault? Those who remain in an unskilled profession must accept that job security isn't anywhere near certain. Dole payments aren't your personal savings account.

Job security isn't a right.

ssmith6287

I reckon it should be jobs further up thatr take a reduction. If someone on 40€ an hour looses 2€ an hour they wont notice it as much as someonr on 8 or 9 euro an hour. Lower taxes, prices will lower, people will buy more, more jobs will be created, more taxes will be paid, celtic tiger the 2nd can be born.

As for the guy who paid into the system all their life then yeah, get the rate. But every month, the dole officers should be able to see what jobs you applied for and how many interviews you attended. Just really annoying seeing people going from a dole office to the pub. I work and I can barely afford to go the pub

Économiste Monétaire

ssmith6287 wrote: »

Lower taxes, prices will lower, people will buy more, more jobs will be created, more taxes will be paid, celtic tiger the 2nd can be born.

And what makes you think there is a positive correlation between prices and taxes? You're 'celtic tiger' equation is quite funny

ssmith6287

its a pretty uneducated theory. I failed 1st year economics in college but there has to be a reason for things being so expensive in the republic, yet it can be got for less anywhere else. I put it down to tax. I do stock takes in 2 pubs and I see the prices, theyre ridiculous, I see the profit margins, a huge amount is down to tax.

So if tax was lowered, consumer prices would be lowered (because the supplier could afford it), people could buy more, which would mean a demand for more people to work, which would mean more people paying tax rather then drawing dole, which would surely be better for the economy

suckslikeafox

ssmith6287 wrote: »

So if tax was lowered, consumer prices would be lowered (because the supplier could afford it), people could buy more, which would mean a demand for more people to work, which would mean more people paying tax rather then drawing dole, which would surely be better for the economy

Firstly theres no guarantee that prices would be lowered just because taxes were, why wouldnt retailers just take a larger slice of profits?

And secondly, look at the state of government finances. A meaningful tax decrease is nowhere near the agenda

Économiste Monétaire

its a pretty uneducated theory. I failed 1st year economics in college but there has to be a reason for things being so expensive in the republic, yet it can be got for less anywhere else. I put it down to tax. I do stock takes in 2 pubs and I see the prices, theyre ridiculous, I see the profit margins, a huge amount is down to tax.

So if tax was lowered, consumer prices would be lowered (because the supplier could afford it), people could buy more, which would mean a demand for more people to work, which would mean more people paying tax rather then drawing dole, which would surely be better for the economy

So you want to reduce V.A.T. on goods? Might I also suggest that Pubs would be subject to the above V.A.T rates on alcohol – you need to limit people ability to consume it (that’s more a personal opinion).

You’re correct in your assumption about personal consumption being a large part of the economy. But you assume that prices would lower in direct line with the reduction in tax – it is in the interest of retailers to not do that, to simply keep the margins or a large part of it. You also assume that the jobs created (if that were to happen) would be taken by those who have been on the dole for quite a long time. They would be, generally, unskilled workers – do you think all the extra jobs created would be for those in that bracket?

gixerfixer

Sean_K wrote: »

I'd be inclined to agree somewhat.

In my opinion, the dole should cover the minimum to support life. Food and shelter.

agreed.why give them water:rolleyes:

ssmith6287

not necessarilly, If people would grow balls and challenge prices then youd find prices would drop. If theres a tax deduction people will know, just like when theres a tax hike people know. Irish people (me included) in general are too nice, we tend to just pay it to avoid conflict. well look at these big shopping centres going up evrywhere, if people cant afford to shop in em whats the point. If taxes were lowered so that the shops could lower prices then people would spend.

suckslikeafox

ssmith6287 wrote: »

not necessarilly, If people would grow balls and challenge prices then youd find prices would drop.

Bitchin to people on checkouts will achieve nothing apart from getting a sh*tload of coins in your change where they could easily have given you a note instead.

Some sectors are very price competitive whereas others just appear to be and even more dont care and dont pretend to. This isnt likely to change anytime soon

gixerfixer

Has anyone really even thought about trying to live on 200 euro a week? People make it sound like people on the dole are sitting in the pub all day and then going on 2-3 holidays a year...

Économiste Monétaire

The allowance isn't supposed to be comfortable - it is intended to cover the very basics and provide an incentive to find employment, i.e. earn more money to purchase the nicer things in life.

ssmith6287

youd defo get by on €200 a week, shop in aldi, pay bills. no problem. People on the dole arent supposed to live in luxury. Unfortunatly most people see evryday luxeries (tv, cd's, cars etc) as necessaties. Food, water and heating, electricity are the basics. €200 is plenty

gcgirl

does any one actually live in the real world here ? The dole que is getting bigger and it's not the peoples fault ! What about the likes of Tony O Reilly michael Smurfit Denis o Brien and so on who have made an obscene amount of money out of us irish and have not paid a cent towards tax ! Dunnestores have pulled out of the Newtown project and being from the garden county it will affect me ! People ordinary wil have to try and pay for their houses they wil be lucky if they can put food on the table !

gcgirl

i think shopping at Tesco is a luxury ! Lidi all the way plus their jaffa cakes are the bis

suckslikeafox

gcgirl wrote: »

What about the likes of Tony O Reilly michael Smurfit Denis o Brien and so on who have made an obscene amount of money out of us irish and have not paid a cent towards tax !

So if you could pay a lot less tax by doing a little jiggery-pokery you're saying you wouldnt do it?

These people have provided tons of jobs, nothing wrong with them using the system

ssmith6287

during the good times when there was loads of money, who saved??

DubArk

Sean_K wrote: »

If you're talking about state disability benefit, then as far as I know this is separate to the 'Dole' and should remain so and obviously should not be a bare minimum payment.

The same with the contributory state pension.

No I was talking about the dole!
I thought they changed the name to someing like "Job seekers Allowance".

State disability benefit is completely different, as you stated.

Économiste Monétaire

gcgirl wrote: »

does any one actually live in the real world here ? The dole que is getting bigger and it's not the peoples fault ! What about the likes of Tony O Reilly michael Smurfit Denis o Brien and so on who have made an obscene amount of money out of us irish and have not paid a cent towards tax ! Dunnestores have pulled out of the Newtown project and being from the garden county it will affect me ! People ordinary wil have to try and pay for their houses they wil be lucky if they can put food on the table !

Mus.. resist.. urge... to... insult....

Whose 'fault' is it then?

Have a source that those names you listed confirming that they haven't paid anything to the Revenue Commissioner? Besides personal tax - corporation tax on their businesses? Jobs they have created?

And I'm guessing it's Anthony O'Reilly's fault that people took out 100% mortgages during an asset bubble? Right...

Why do Irish people always try to blame others for their own misfortune? :rolleyes:

gcgirl

how many hacks has O Reilly giving the hevehove to ? I have a lot of respect for Sean Quinn and Michael o Leary both of them pay their taxes !

Économiste Monétaire

gcgirl wrote: »

how many hacks has O Reilly giving the hevehove to ? I have a lot of respect for Sean Quinn and Michael o Leary both of them pay their taxes !

Source that Anthony O'Reilly commits tax evasion or quit libellous statements.

suckslikeafox

gcgirl wrote: »

how many hacks has O Reilly giving the hevehove to ? I have a lot of respect for Sean Quinn and Michael o Leary both of them pay their taxes !

So O'Reilly should let his business suffer just to keep others in a job? and who says hes been letting people go?

gcgirl

All i am saying is there is a bigger picture out there and stop attacking the less well off ! Personally the less well off won't have the education it a cycle that goes down through generations !

Économiste Monétaire

gcgirl wrote: »

All i am saying is there is a bigger picture out there and stop attacking the less well off ! Personally the less well off won't have the education it a cycle that goes down through generations !

So saying that people shouldn't be allowed to live on the dole for years is attacking the less well off as a whole?

gcgirl

o reilly outsources gets freelance journo's to write for him ! But this story is so 8/9 months old

suckslikeafox

gcgirl wrote: »

o reilly outsources gets freelance journo's to write for him ! But this story is so 8/9 months old

And whats wrong with that? Seems to me its a better way to run a newspaper, having lots of people that are experts in different areas and being able to call on any of them when the need comes rather than having a small group on non-specialists

Économiste Monétaire

gcgirl wrote: »

o reilly outsources gets freelance journo's to write for him ! But this story is so 8/9 months old

And this is relevant to the dole how exactly? This isn't a forum for personal agenda pushing against people like Anthony O'Reilly.

gcgirl

it's all about properly education people ! But our school system is crap ask any teacher ! 30 kids in a class your bound to get kids that slip trough the net that can't read or even write !

Économiste Monétaire

Think before you type. It's just a long string of verbal diarrhoea.

it's all about properly education people !

Dear God.

Time Magazine

Back on topic, please.

Edit: UCD_Econ infracted.

ssmith6287

Where are the parents, Its always someone elses fault with this country. Surely when a kid is doing their homework, the parent can see that the child is struggling. Iff you cant get a job after a month on the dole, ye shud be forced to work for it, whether it be sweeping streets, or landscaping, or even community work. I hate the taught of not working. If you have an injury or dissability then fair enough thats different.

Thomas_S_Hunterson

gixerfixer wrote: »

agreed.why give them water:rolleyes:

Last time I checked, we don't pay residential water charges. One could also add medical care to that list, but people on the dole don't have to pay for that either.

DubArk

[As I was saying the dole to me is there for a very good reason, a stop gap till you get a job!! That is if there’s a job there for you, depending on your age, sex, education etc… and €200 a week if you had a mortgage, bills and other commitments that most Irish people bought into in the good times must be a nightmare.:eek::eek::eek:

I couldn’t live on it!
I have savings and a very low mortgage and no kids, car paid for.

Lots of people in the last six months have lost their jobs without ever thinking that this day would come again, I really feel sorry for them, if they had to depend on €200 a week!!

Yes there are people who take the piss but that doesn't mean that the dole should be reduced for the majority of people who would really need every single cent!

gcgirl

Thank god none of you's work in construction ! You's would have been going down to sign on today ask them how they feel ! Morgages and all to pay ! 200 a week with 1100 or 1200 to try pay off each month ! I feel sorry for families in that situation ! But i don't think some of you's think that way !

Économiste Monétaire

gcgirl wrote: »

Thank god none of you's work in construction ! You's would have been going down to sign on today ask them how they feel ! Morgages and all to pay ! 200 a week with 1100 or 1200 to try pay off each month ! I feel sorry for families in that situation ! But i don't think some of you's think that way !

Right - so everyone in construction is on the dole now? You get interest support on jobseeker's allowance. People make choices in life - one of those is to take out a mortgage. People need to consider the job security in the industry where they work. The government shouldn't need to compensate for people's lack of ability to plan ahead.

ssmith6287

if you read my first post, you will see im talking about people who never had and dont have an intention of working. Like I said, theres jobs out there cleaning etc. Snobbery is a bitch. Id shovel ****e before id sign on

gcgirl

go get a massive life mate ! Or do you have one ! I don't think you do but i am not going to pick on some one is is in a difficult situation ! Not in my nature at all

Économiste Monétaire

gcgirl wrote: »

go get a massive life mate ! Or do you have one ! I don't think you do

Ehh Mod - now that's abusive :rolleyes: