Clearance required to land a helicopter?

Rowley Birkin QC

What is required in the way of clearances to land a privately owned helicopter on private property with the consent of the owner of said property?

A situation arose lately where the chopper was due to land at a predesignated spot but due to poor weather conditions diverted to another area. This has caused some hassle for my dads company and I was wondering what are the permissions or clearances required.

The area where the helo landed was well outside any urban centre and has a huge ,unoccupied at the time, car park.

Cheers.

highlydebased

Generally it is yes up the landowner in question. After that once there is no published danger/restricted area there is no further action required, no formalities to be sorted, IMO.

ch252

You do need to contact the local council as far as I know. But the landowner only would be grand, unless they have neighbours closeby who would kick up at the noise.

Rowley Birkin QC

darragh-k wrote: »

, unless they have neighbours closeby who would kick up at the noise.

Therin lies the problem. A neighbour strenuosly objected to the development of the business where the helicopter landed and is now sabre rattling about looking for compensation for the "unauthorised" landing.

Run_to_da_hills

All helicopter landings must be logged, An Irish Lights Helicopter (Chartered from Irish Helicopters) once landed in the back garden of an electrician as a favour rather than taking him to the lighthouse depot 50 miles away in the 1980ies, some neighbour reported this unofficial landing to the cops who then got on to ATC, the pilot was then grilled for making an unauthorised landing and not logging it.

Rowley Birkin QC

Logged with the relevant Air Traffic Control I presume? Before or after the landing?

ronnie3585

A helicopter would only be required to obtain clearance if it is within Class C or controlled airspace. Generally speaking you are in controlled airspace if you are within a ten nautical mile radius of Galway, Sligo, Waterford, Kerry, Donegal and Cork airports and 15nm of Shannon or Dublin.

If you are not within any of these zones then you are in uncontrolled or Class G airspace therefore a clearance is not required. If the property the heli landed in is in uncontrolled airspace then the pertinent issue is whether the heli had permission to land on the property he landed in. This has nothing to do with the IAA and is a matter only for the heli owner/pilot and the land owner. If the heli landed without permission from the land owner then it is a trespass no different than if you drove your car or walked onto the land.

A major mitigating factor is that the weather closed in and the chopper was required to land in the carpark. It was a trespass, however weather dictates where you can and can't land and a good decision was made not attempting to land in the pre-designated site due to adverse weather conditions.

Be that as it may you are still left with one pissed off land owner. Due to the general hysteria about light aircraft landing at private strips caused by and large by the media, the ordinary Joe Soap wants nothing to do with 'noisy', 'polluting', 'large', 'dangerous' private aircraft and he certainly doesn't want them landing in his backgarden.

I have had some experience with friends having to land in private land without permission and equally annoyed owners. The best piece of advice I could give is (as with almost everything) you catch more files with honey than vinegar. In other word try to reason with the land owner. Maybe write a letter or an email setting out that for the safety of the aircraft and it's occupants the heli had to land in the carpark making the point that it was away from any urban area and was unoccupied etc. Make your apologies as you did land without permission and ask that he be reasonable about this. The last thing you want is the IAA unnecessarily breathing down your neck.

Rowley Birkin QC

Thanks for the very detailed reply ronnie. As I read it this landing definitely falls within Class G as it was the required distance from controlled airspace and most definitely had the permission from the landowner.

The weather certainly was the deciding factor in not landing in the pre-determined spot. I understand that this guy will be best placated by an understanding e-mail or visit from a company rep but I just wanted to get a handle on the technicalities and requirements of landing a chopper.

Cheers again.

Fishtits

Ronnie is on the money IMHO, "emergency" landing due to weather or other issues will not see the IAA on your back. P*ssing off the locals however is a common occurrence due to the flood of three week Florida PPL(H) drivers around the country that see fit to plonk down anywhere... (saw a 206 landing in a sand pit last year...)

Not passing judgment on this incident but bear it in mind...

ch252

Are you sure you don't need to contact the county council to land? or is that just on a public premises?

highlydebased

ronnie3585 wrote: »

A helicopter would only be required to obtain clearance if it is within Class C or controlled airspace. Generally speaking you are in controlled airspace if you are within a ten nautical mile radius of Galway, Sligo, Waterford, Kerry, Donegal and Cork airports and 15nm of Shannon or Dublin.
.

True to a point, but theres much more controlled airspace than just the tower CTA of each airport!

Rowley Birkin QC

This was definitely a "one-off" landing due to the poor weather. There are no plans to have any future landings without giving prior notice to neighbours.

Have any of you ever heard of successful claims for animals having died as a result of fright sustained by the landing of a helicopter? Bare in mind that there would be at least 250m between the landing site and the animals location.

Cheers for all the help and opinion guys, it has been very informative.

ch252

bigkev49 wrote: »

Bare in mind that there would be at least 250m between the landing site and the animals location.

I would seriously doubt it if they were that far away, did an animal die? and what did it die of supposedly?

I would highly doubt a heli landing would do that. It may have scared them into jumping a wall, but that is as far as it would go IMO....open to correction though but there are farm animals across the road from the 26 threshold in Galway and I know the farmer and the animals never give any trouble...and thats a lot closer than 250m!

ronnie3585

Neon-Circles wrote: »

True to a point, but theres much more controlled airspace than just the tower CTA of each airport!

Obviously, that's why I used the phrase "Generally speaking". For the purpose if the OPs question a brief explaination of the regional control zones was sufficient.

You do need to contact the local council as far as I know.

Not if it's private land.

bigkev49 wrote: »

Have any of you ever heard of successful claims for animals having died as a result of fright sustained by the landing of a helicopter? Bare in mind that there would be at least 250m between the landing site and the animals location.

While I have never heard of an animal dying from fright I do know that horses, especially racing horses, are extremely highy strung and very sensitive to noise. I have seen instances of aircraft landing in a field, frightening cows and/or horses in an adjacent field causing them to bolt and kill themselves either trying to jump a wall or landing badly.

As with actually landing without permission in the carpark, the possible death or injury of livestock could possibly be defended by the defence of necessity as adverse weather dictated that the heli find a safe landing spot.

If livestock have died and the landowner is very pissed off and not communicating with you then the best advice is to go to your solicitor and put everything on the record.

ch252

At the end of the day in any legal proceedings that may follow the judge will see that the pilot in command deemed it unsafe to land at the pre-arranged landing site due to adverse weather conditions which, if a landing attempt was made in, would put the safety of the helicopter, its crew and its passengers in danger, therefore it diverted to the nearest safe landing location to ensure the safety and wellbeing of the passengers and general public. The farmer has no case IMO

Fishtits

darragh-k wrote: »

At the end of the day in any legal proceedings that may follow the judge will see that the pilot in command deemed it unsafe to land at the pre-arranged landing site due to adverse weather conditions which, if a landing attempt was made in, would put the safety of the helicopter, its crew and its passengers in danger, therefore it diverted to the nearest safe landing location to ensure the safety and wellbeing of the passengers and general public. The farmer has no case IMO

Two separate issues here,

1) Helo pilot landing in an unplanned location - IAA sanctions issue. Probably none due to reasons previously posted.

2) Farmer suffers a loss due to above landing, dead animals etc. Private action against owner/operator/pilot of involved aircraft. If the farmer can prove that the landing caused his loss - on the balance of probabilities - then said owner/operator/pilot will be liable.

Fly Safe.

ronnie3585

Fishtits wrote: »

2) If the farmer can prove that the landing caused his loss - on the balance of probabilities - then said owner/operator/pilot will be liable.

.....unless the pilot/operator has a valid common law or statutory defence. In this instance there appears to be no question re causation. It does however appear that the common law defence of necessity may be relied upon in a situation such as this as it seemed entirely necessary for the pilot to land in the car park.

Fishtits

ronnie3585 wrote: »

.....unless the pilot/operator has a valid common law or statutory defence. In this instance there appears to be no question re causation. It does however appear that the common law defence of necessity may be relied upon in a situation such as this as it seemed entirely necessary for the pilot to land in the car park.

I beg to differ...

The Farmer has not contributed to his own loss...

See you in Court :P

ronnie3585

Fishtits wrote: »

The Farmer has not contributed to his own loss...

Explain how the farmer has 'contributed to his own loss'?

As I read it the farmer has made no positive act or omission. There not does appear to be any failure of the farmer to mitigate his loss.

Deacon Blues

See http://www.aaiu.ie/upload/general/10599-0.pdf

This refers to the unauthorised landing of a helicopter in Athlone. Very different situation as it was a single engined machine landing in a built up area, on an elevated landing site.

However, the report contains references to the Irish aviation law pertaining to heliports, permanent or temporary, and the permissions required.

From what I can see, you've no problems.

"‘Temporary Heliport’ being defined as any temporary helicopter landing site, other than an aerodrome, intended for occasional landing use."

"Provided a heliport site is not located within a congested area, or close to an open air assembly of 1,000 or more people, it is only necessary that the heliport site owner/occupier grants prior permission to a helicopter operator intending to use the heliport."

IMHO, "having the right" isn't the same as "being right". Other peoples feelings and concerns should be taken into account. Sometimes they'll have justifed reasons to complain, sometimes they'll just be idiot busybodies. Not sure what category this guy falls into, but a concilliatory visit could be the way to start. If he turns out to be an a**hole, just forget it and let him waste his time complaining. You're covered.

Fishtits

ronnie3585 wrote: »

Explain how the farmer has 'contributed to his own loss'?

As I read it the farmer has made no positive act or omission. There not does appear to be any failure of the farmer to mitigate his loss.

Read my post again. I said the farmer "has not contributed to his loss"

In plain English, farmer was minding his own business and the Helo landed on his property damaging crops, or whatever, causing the farmer to suffer a loss. I would argue that it is not reasonable to assume that the farmer would foresee such an event as likely.

Farmer has a case.

Rowley Birkin QC

Fishtits wrote: »

Read my post again. I said the farmer "has not contributed to his loss"

In plain English, farmer was minding his own business and the Helo landed on his property damaging crops, or whatever, causing the farmer to suffer a loss. I would argue that it is not reasonable to assume that the farmer would foresee such an event as likely.

Farmer has a case.

It was actually well outside his property.

Fishtits

bk49 - I was being hypothetical.