Why has the PC not evolved?

Sabre0001

Don't get me wrong, I am a big PC gamer - and that is why this thought struck me...Why has PC gaming not tried to respond to the threats of consoles. I, as a PC gamer appreciate why console gaming is so popular - you can just buy a game, come home, put in disc, play. No need to worry! And that simplicity is the beauty of it!

So why has the PC not tried to develop a similar system for those that are this way inclined? The move towards digital distribution (i.e. Steam) is one step but relies on internet connections and still requires hard drive space.

Instead, the PC has allowed the consoles to creep in and start offering what it offers (hard drives for example). And developers have started to state that "PC gaming is dying" (don't want to get into that argument again...). But why has a system like this // ways to make PC gaming more accessible not been sought out?

steviec

Well surely the only people in a position to change how PC works as a platform are Microsoft, and I reckon they're perfectly happy to let people flock towards the xbox, and it's not like every new xbox customer is a Windows customer lost because people still need their web browsers and emails.

There's not a whole lot PCs have going for them as games platforms that consoles don't these days anyway. The main advantage has always been internet connectivity, something consoles have certainly picked up on, and much more powerful hardware, but we've hit the point where the 360 and PS3 are pretty much powerful enough (minus a little resolution and AA), and developers simply can't afford to increase the fidelity of their games any further for the extra capacity of PC hardware.

Treora

Sabre0001 wrote: »

So why has the PC not tried to develop a similar system for those that are this way inclined? The move towards digital distribution (i.e. Steam) is one step but relies on internet connections and still requires hard drive space.

Answer: profit margins.

Remember that the Xbox series is a cash cow in comparison to MS vista. PC games developed the way they did because the technology was novel enough to allow small groups of dedicated programmers to do everything. I remember when CS went online and it was the fact that the original server code was designed for linux that cemented that idea for me. Once a revenue stream has developed then those with some capital raise the stakes and make the service just a little too complex for home workshops to compete even if they grouped and then bring out hardware to isolate them.

Another rush might hit when organic chips or quantum computing ends up in the home, but more likely when simi-sense (cybernetic scullcaps) arrives.

If you think this was trite well I was talking to a DCU compsci prof on this last year and we both thought it was fanciful within the next 20 years. Then I read some work like this: rat brains and this: 10 new computer processors.

bizmark

Sabre0001 wrote: »

Don't get me wrong, I am a big PC gamer - and that is why this thought struck me...Why has PC gaming not tried to respond to the threats of consoles. I, as a PC gamer appreciate why console gaming is so popular - you can just buy a game, come home, put in disc, play. No need to worry! And that simplicity is the beauty of it!

Its the same thing on a pc buy a game for 20 euro less than the console come home wait 2-3 min's to install play game wheres the mind bending issues here? graphics drivers take a few mins to download and install every other month if you so wish and most pc game's are perfectly stable its not like you need to go off installing 50 patchs and drivers to run every game.

So why has the PC not tried to develop a similar system for those that are this way inclined? The move towards digital distribution (i.e. Steam) is one step but relies on internet connections and still requires hard drive space.

Hard drive = better load time and so on its a trade off you wait a bit longer for also a good few game's on consoles are going down this route afaik the new xbox360 update allows you to install your games to hard drive doesnt it? the new metal gear soild game takes like 10 minute to install the consoles are copying the pc because its the best way to do it why should the pc copy an inferior system? On top of this console game's get patched now and the gamer charged for downloadable content no pc gamer would pay for indeed most port's dont even bother to try to make us pay for such thing's.

Steam is a fantastic system i buy quite a number of my games from them why you think its some sort of draw back that you need a internet connection (most gamers would have a good connection) and hard drive (most modren pc's would have 250-500gig space) for this is a bit odd perhapes they should just send the disk and be renamed play.com .

Instead, the PC has allowed the consoles to creep in and start offering what it offers (hard drives for example). And developers have started to state that "PC gaming is dying" (don't want to get into that argument again...). But why has a system like this // ways to make PC gaming more accessible not been sought out?

Consoles becomeing like mini pc's trying to emulate the better platform The pc in turn "evolved" by becomeing the main platform for mmo's 10 million in wow alone 250,000 for eve and so on with systems like steam becomeing more common for buying normal game's as well thats the pc's future which im pritty confident will be long and bright reguardless of the likes of crytek/epic whineing when their boreing game's dont sell enough .

magick

profit margins & people are idiots


for example imagine putting a modded/ie cool lookin pc out on the market for the public to use for games.

You would be flooded with support calls and emails within minutes from people asking "whats a graphics card?" "It says i dont have enough mhz, where can i buy more mhz?" "please insert disk 2? Well how can i when disk 1 is already in there?!".

Oh and by the way in case ur thinking these dumb questions are impossible, i had these asked to me on an hourly basis in my old job for a very well known American Isp (i soon went insane within the first couple of months) .

PCs gaming is an investment in time and money, because someone who truly loves pc games will find a way around the problem they enounter. Constant tweaking and modding by the fan base for the love of a game.

Say someone with a console gets "error in hyperrape.dll" well they will probably blame the game or console and demand a replacement of one or both. With a pc the person will research it, and try and find a way around it and even try and consult the community around the game for help.

All in all i find pc gaming is a way of life for some people its niche market, while consoles will always be a way of entertainment for everyone else and thats where the pot o gold is

Silverfish

Its a bit like saying why haven't cars evolved to cope with the threat of bikes.

Sabre0001

Silverfish wrote: »

Its a bit like saying why haven't cars evolved to cope with the threat of bikes.

And here comes my next topic

No but seriously, car manufacturers have not come out and said "the car market is dying". Some console games remain exclusive to their particular console (or still stay console only) while PC games get whored out to anything that will take it. Even GTA, traditionally a PC game suddenly made the switch and now there is enough time for the worst console player to 100% it before the PC gets a look in.

Yes, the console is trying to act as a mini-PC in that it offers harddrive, internet, etc. but it has started to do some of these things better...Maybe the PC suffers from "too many cooks" syndrome. Microsoft is able to control the XBox Live Experience for example whereas the PC does not exactly make MP easy anymore.

DirkVoodoo

Possibly due to its lack of opposable thumbs.

Seriously though, I have definitely noticed a decline over the last couple of years in true quality games for the PC. Unless you are a die hard strategy fan or involved in an MMORPG, there is little else except the games now designed primarily for consoles and given PC ports (remember when it was the other way around?).

Maybe I'm falling out of touch with PC gaming, but on the horizon for me is pretty much only Fallout 3 and Far Cry 2 (starcraft 2 and Diablo 3 keep teasing me, damn blizzard!).

EDIT: Also read that the PC is dying a death in japan, more and more people are carrying out PC tasks on mobile devices.

Slutmonkey57b

Treora wrote: »

Answer: profit margins.

Remember that the Xbox series is a cash cow in comparison to MS vista.

Ehhhh
Ummmmmmm
Errrr.....

You do know that the Xbox division only started breaking even recently (on a yearly basis)?

That Xbox has lost hundreds of millions for MS to date?

That new consoles are always sold at a loss compared to their manufacturing cost (Nintendo excepted, since their hardware always sucks ass)?

That Microsoft's whole empire essentially rests on yearly sales of Office?

Kiith

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

Seriously though, I have definitely noticed a decline over the last couple of years in true quality games for the PC. Unless you are a die hard strategy fan or involved in an MMORPG, there is little else except the games now designed primarily for consoles and given PC ports (remember when it was the other way around?).

Maybe I'm falling out of touch with PC gaming, but on the horizon for me is pretty much only Fallout 3 and Far Cry 2 (starcraft 2 and Diablo 3 keep teasing me, damn blizzard!)

You really havent been paying attention if you say there hasnt been any truly quality games in the last few years. There have been loads, with some genre defining games in there. The Half Life series, Unreal Tournament series, Total War series, Counter Strike, World of Warcraft, Homeworld (for it being the 1st fully 3d strategy game), the Sims (*shudder*) etc... These have redefined the way that people look at the genres. World of Warcraft is one of the most succesful games in history, console or otherwise. Then there are the just great games, that while not redifining the genre, are great games onto themselves. Far Cry, Company of Heroes, Oblivion, Morrowind, Deus Ex, Max Payne etc etc etc... Then you have the small developers who make some amazing games, like Uplink and Darwinia (same developer i know). And thats not mentioning the mod scene :rolleyes:.

The pc is fine thank you very much :pac:

DirkVoodoo

Funny, Ive played most of those games, you are spanning nearly 10 years of PC gaming though. I'm actually engaged in a great game of Medieval 2 at the moment, your right, they are great. But if you look at my post I think I highlighted strategy and MMORPG as the only current PC exclusive areas.

So many games now are being designed primarily for consoles, with PC gaming taking a back seat. Yes, World of Warcraft is extremely successful (MMORPG) but even Blizzard have stated that they are considering future game installments for console development. Certain games dont make the transition from PC to console well, such as strategy games, but even the new civilization spin-off is not a port but aimed straight at the console market. Surely that gives you some indication of where developers are investing their futures. I love my PC, and I have plenty of great games on it, but in terms of new releases I am struggling.

Oh well, back to medieval 2 for me...

Kiith

While i saw that you said that MMO's and Strategy are the only pc exclusives, that doesnt mean that other genres are not as succesful on the pc. As i said earlier, we have some more genre defining FPS's then consoles do, as traditionally, pc FPS's are a million times better then console ones. Call of Duty 4 is the first one that properly translates over to consoles, imo.

Certain genres are more suited to the console, yes. But that doesnt stop the pc from getting a lot of games that are superior to their console counterparts. The reverse is also through though. As for Civilisation, yes they did a console only version. But they are strongly focused on the pc market. Theres not much point using the knowledge you have on making pc games, and not trying to make some more money in the console market.

People have been saying for years that pc gaming is in trouble, and i have yet to see any real signs of that.

Mr. Presentable

I believe the PC for gaming has evolved into XBox.

As a PC which does more than just play games the PC has not evolved because it is perfect.

OK so not perfect, but the system remains because it works.

OP has been PC gaming for 10 years. Does he remember setting up Doom/Duke Nukem on a LAN? That's an area that evolved, thankfully. Or is that down to OS and the games?

kmick

The XBOX360 as an example has a motherboard, a CPU, a GPU, some memory (512), a dvd drive, a hard drive, ethernet port, usbports, wireless and an OS (of sorts). Sound familiar?

Truck

Microsoft built the XBox for this reason. In their eyes a limited number of users use their PC for gaming, they make their money from businesses/offices etc

BadCharlie

A PC is just not a gaming machine. It has a-lot more to it, im sure when PC's were first made it was not to play games on.

Console = pure game machine.

Azza

Future confirmed major games for the PC.

Stalker Clear Sky (PC Exclusive)
Mercenaries 2: World in Flames
Crysis Warhead (PC Exclusive)
CNC Red Alert 3
Company of Heroes: Tales Of Valor (PC Exclusive)
Dawn of War 2 (PC Exclusive)
Starcraft 2 (PC Exclusive)
Diablo 3 (PC Exclusive)
Fallout 3
Bully
Silent Hill: Homecoming
Fifa 09 (PC version desgined separate to consoles/designed to use the mouse)
Pro Evoltuon Soccer 2009
Alan Wake
The Agency
Star Trek Online (PC development first/console later)
The Sims 3 (PC Exclusive)
World of Warcraft Rise of the Lich King (PC Exclusive)
IL2 Sturmovik (Storm of War/Birds of Prey)
Far Cry 2 (higher graphical level on PC)
Red Faction 3
Velvet Assassin
Half Life 2 Episode 3
Armed Assault 2 (PC Exclusive)
Portal 2
Saints Row 2
Ghostbusters
Deus Ex 3
Tomb Raider Underworld
The Witcher Enhanced Edition. (PC Exclusive)
Street Fighter 4
Spore (PC Exclusive)
Left 4 Dead
Project Origin
Operation Flashpoint 2 (higher graphical level on PC, higher number of online players supported)
Rage (higher graphical level on PC)
Doom 4
Wolfenstein
Quake Live (PC exclusive/Free)
Battlefield Heroes (PC exclusive/Free)
Prince of Persia
Grand Theft Auto 4 (higher graphical level on the PC, higher number of online players upported, new mutiplayer modes and replay system)
Mirrors Edge
Brothers in Arms: Hells Highway (Higher graphical level on PC)
Burnout Paradise (graphical improved over console version)
Empires Total War (PC exclusive)
Demigod (PC exclusive)
Men of War (Pc Exclusive)
Just Cause 2
Precursors: White Gold
Cryostasis (PC Exclusive)
Fuel
Dragon Age Origins (PC developed first/console later)
Call of Duty: Wolrd At War
Project Offset (Where did the hell did this game get to?)Knights of the Old Republic MMO
Warhammer online (PC Exclusive)

Unconfimed but highly probably
Fable 2 (will almost certainly get there)
Battlefield 3

Moderate chance of coming to PC
Resident Evil 5
Halo 3
Gears of War 2

Yeah I'm happy to be a PC gamer right now

Kiith

Azza wrote: »

Future confirmed major games for the PC.

Stalker Clear Sky (PC Exclusive)
Mercenaries 2: World in Flames
Crysis Warhead (PC Exclusive)
CNC Red Alert 3
Company of Heroes: Tales Of Valor (PC Exclusive)
Dawn of War 2 (PC Exclusive)
Starcraft 2 (PC Exclusive)
Diablo 3 (PC Exclusive)
Fallout 3
Bully
Silent Hill: Homecoming
Fifa 09 (PC version desgined separate to consoles/designed to use the mouse)
Pro Evoltuon Soccer 2009
Alan Wake
The Agency
Star Trek Online (PC development first/console later)
The Sims 3 (PC Exclusive)
World of Warcraft Rise of the Lich King (PC Exclusive)
IL2 Sturmovik (Storm of War/Birds of Prey)
Far Cry 2 (higher graphical level on PC)
Red Faction 3
Velvet Assassin
Half Life 2 Episode 3
Armed Assault 2 (PC Exclusive)
Portal 2
Saints Row 2
Ghostbusters
Deus Ex 3
Tomb Raider Underworld
The Witcher Enhanced Edition. (PC Exclusive)
Street Fighter 4
Spore (PC Exclusive)
Left 4 Dead
Project Origin
Operation Flashpoint 2 (higher graphical level on PC, higher number of online players supported)
Rage (higher graphical level on PC)
Doom 4
Wolfenstein
Quake Live (PC exclusive/Free)
Battlefield Heroes (PC exclusive/Free)
Prince of Persia
Grand Theft Auto 4 (higher graphical level on the PC, higher number of online players upported, new mutiplayer modes and replay system)
Mirrors Edge
Brothers in Arms: Hells Highway (Higher graphical level on PC)
Burnout Paradise (graphical improved over console version)
Empires Total War (PC exclusive)
Demigod (PC exclusive)
Men of War (Pc Exclusive)
Just Cause 2
Precursors: White Gold
Cryostasis (PC Exclusive)
Fuel
Dragon Age Origins (PC developed first/console later)
Call of Duty: Wolrd At War
Project Offset (Where did the hell did this game get to?)Knights of the Old Republic MMO
Warhammer online (PC Exclusive)

Unconfimed but highly probably
Fable 2 (will almost certainly get there)
Battlefield 3

Moderate chance of coming to PC
Resident Evil 5
Halo 3
Gears of War 2

Yeah I'm happy to be a PC gamer right now

Pc's are dead. Long live the pc!!

OK-Cancel-Apply

The way consoles are going, they WILL be PCs in a few years! :pac:

Azza

Futhermore as total proof the PC's are dead that no one plays them and is industry in sharp decline please read this.

The NPD group who reported last years PC retail sales figures in the United States declined slightly (but who did not track digital distrubiton) have conducted a new gaming survey. Its conclusion from a sample of 20,000 people is that the current fromat leader in video gaming is ...drum roll please......the PC! note consoles are played more by a large margin when they are combined but the PC is played more than any single console.
http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/54128

In other news the PC gaming alliance have finally got off there but and declared PC gaming is far bigger than anyone previosuly thought and estimated the industry to be worth $10.7 billion dollars a years.
There reports breaks down the finding to $4.8 billion for online subscritpion based games, $800 million to online advertising, around $2.5 billion to retail sales and a futher $2 billion to online distrabution.
http://www.megagames.com/news/html/pc/pcgamingfarstrongerthananyonehasreported.shtml
Yes no where near the scale of console gaming industry but a hige industry non the less.
I don't think there reports mention the likes of hardware manufacturers like AMD and Nvidia (who posted a billion dollar profit last quater of last year and was named Forbes company of the year) who are making money out of this pc gaming racket?

Meanwhile over at Crytek the company who said its game Crysis was pirated 15-20 to every legit sale has confirmed the buget was $22 million dollars for Crysis and it did indeed make make a profit on it. It was confirmed to have sold 1.5 million copies as of June 2008 exceding its publishers (not its developers) expectations.

Mantel

Azza wrote: »

Future confirmed major games for the PC.

Dawn of War 2 (PC Exclusive)
Spore (PC Exclusive)

Both of these will be out on the 360 with spore whoring itself out to everything (PS3, Wii, PSP and DS)

Benzino

Because people are downloading illegal copies.

1 out of every 4 users playing cod 4 online (on the pc) is doing so on an illegal copy. Hence the reason why Activision are going to such huge lengths with preventing this happening to cod 5. However, some companies will just say feck it, lets make games for the consoles instead.

Azza

There was confusion over Dawn of War 2 when was announced that it would be using the games for windows live service for mutiplayer which led to some speculation that it going to be on the Xbox 360. Some of its online features where thought be exclusive to Xbox live which lead to the speculation of the Xbox version but these features where later confirmed on Games for Windows Live effectively killing the rumors of an Xbox version.

As for Spore I was aware it was heading to Wii and handhelds but the game developer stated they would be radically different from the PC version. That why I marked it exclusive.

Also when I say exclusive some of the time its technically incorrect as some of them are heading to the MAC as well.

grimm2005

i don't think the pc really needs to "evolve" like consoles cos when you look at it it's the consoles that are evolving more and more into pc's what with hard drive installations mandatory on many ps3 games and full hard drive installs coming soon to the xbox. And tbh i'd much rather install a game fully to the hard drive and forgoe a lot of loading screens in the game. best example i can think of this is vice city (going between islands was a split second load on the pc).

Also i don't really think theres anything wrong with the current system, its just that pirating games on the pc is incredibly easy compared to consoles, so really they just need to come up with better non-intrusive copy protection.

But really what it comes down to is the cost. people would rather pay €300 for a gaming machine than €2000

4Xcut

You do not need to pay 2k for a gaming rig. A very decent machine can be had for arounf 500(700 if you tack on moniter, mouse and keyboard). There's a thread in the Building & Upgrading forum on this very subject, stickied near the top.

AlmightyCushion

4Xcut wrote: »

You do not need to pay 2k for a gaming rig. A very decent machine can be had for arounf 500(700 if you tack on moniter, mouse and keyboard). There's a thread in the Building & Upgrading forum on this very subject, stickied near the top.

And chances are people already have a half decent pc in their house already (decent dual core processor, 2GBs ram). All you have to do is slap a decent graphics card in there and you've got a gaming machine that is better than than a 360 or a ps3. A 4850 can be bought on dabs for only €150, great card at a great price.

MooseJam

I'd say in time there will be no more major games released on pc and it will just be budget titles left

bizmark

MooseJam wrote: »

I'd say in time there will be no more major games released on pc and it will just be budget titles left

Just trolling or would you like to explain why you think that?

No but seriously, car manufacturers have not come out and said "the car market is dying"

Something valve relic stardock and co laugh in the face of even crysis made a profit on its 22 mil dev costs dispite their whineing about how TEH PC IS DIEING.

MooseJam

lots of companies are saying they are switching over to console development, even john carmack. Nobody pays for computer games they download them, it's getting ever harder to recoup development costs, pc titles just don't shift, sure they are as popular as ever even moreso but it doesn't translate into cash for developers, just bigger download stats

bizmark

lots of companies are saying they are switching over to console development, even john carmack

Theres a difference between just abadoning the pc and going muiltiplatform they are busness's after all make's sence for them to make as much money as they can Mass effect gta 4 and co go from console to pc for the same reason no one blows on about how its a sign consoles are dieing.

Nobody pays for computer games they download them

Ah right every pc gamer is a hard core pirate? odd i dont play any consoles and have never pirated a game

it's getting ever harder to recoup development costs, pc titles just don't shift

Bull even crysis with its insane dev cost's and adverage gameplay made a profit.

MooseJam

bizmark wrote: »

Ah right every pc gamer is a hard core pirate? odd i dont play any consoles and have never pirated a game

we'll it's good to see there are still some honest gamers left but the industry won't be saved by ones and two's , ok thats a bit of an exaggeration I'm sure there are many thousands out there but the amount of people downloading is MASSIVE I think we can all agree on that, I'd hazard a guess if games companies had a choice of switching user base from buying customers to pirates they would switch in a second there is that many, by switching I mean if every download equated to a sale

bizmark wrote: »

Bull even crysis with its insane dev cost's and adverage gameplay made a profit.

interesting, have you got a link ?