Breast feeding - does it bother you?

TerrorFirmer

There's a far more pressing question here and it's......do women get inadvertently turned on?

Gauge

I really wish I hadn't clicked on this thread. The whole thing is a big blackhole of *facepalm*.

McSandwich

darkman2 wrote: »

In a word 'yes'. Its time for a law to be brought in distinctly for this. Laws already exist of course that can be interprated as suitable grounds on which to stop breast feeding in public full stop. It can be construed as illegal to do it in public atm. All it requires is enforcement. Whilst I would not say go that far I do think the gaurds should have powers to arrest or move on those who are breast feeding openly in blatantly inappropriate places or public transport or restaurants (how anyone could condone it in restaurants is beyond me - thats just not right and not particularly hygenic either for that matter!).

The Gardai have enough to deal with without being required to keep abreast of baby feeding in public . Why do you think it's "inappropriate" and "not particularly hygenic" ?

zing

No TD in their right mind would suggest introducing legislation to limit/restrict a mothers right to breast feed their babies (be that based on location or anything else). If they did they could kiss their seat in the Dail goodbye come the next election.

And I can't see many gardai arresting any mothers for breast feeding their children either. Not unless they've got serious ambitions to make the headlines for all the wrong reasons.

darkman2 - if the gardai were given such powers then surely the state would have an obligation to provide suitable alternative locations for mothers to breast feed their babies. Are you happy for Cowan & co. to take more from you in taxes to provide such locations and staff/upkeep them as appropriate ? Bear in mind you'd need to have them dotted at every cross roads around the country.

I'm curious as to how many of those calling for more discretion/segregation/whatever are parents themselves ?

darkman2

No TD in their right mind would suggest introducing legislation to limit/restrict a mothers right to breast feed their babies (be that based on location or anything else). If they did they could kiss their seat in the Dail goodbye come the next election.

I think you would be supprised at how conservative many parts of Ireland still are.

And I can't see many gardai arresting any mothers for breast feeding their children either. Not unless they've got serious ambitions to make the headlines for all the wrong reasons.

Im not suggesting a major crackdown. Just if they see it happening go over and have a word and move them on.

darkman2 - if the gardai were given such powers then surely the state would have an obligation to provide suitable alternative locations for mothers to breast feed their babies. Are you happy for Cowan & co. to take more from you in taxes to provide such locations and staff/upkeep them as appropriate ? Bear in mind you'd need to have them dotted at every cross roads around the country.

My taxes - no. Would not be nessacary.

I saw 5 gardai at a speed check the other day all standing on the side of the road chatting away. They could do with some extra work.

I'm curious as to how many of those calling for more discretion/segregation/whatever are parents themselves ?

Not many.

Davidius

If I'm ever bothered by breast feeding then I'll be glad because it means that I obviously don't have anything else to worry about. :pac:

zing

darkman2 wrote: »

Im not suggesting a major crackdown. Just if they see it happening go over and have a word and move them on.

Move them on to where exactly ? Child is hungry and screaming and needs to be fed - where should they be go that you'd consider inoffensive ?

My taxes - no. Would not be nessacary.

So who would provide suitable locations for mothers to do this so morally offensive task then ? Private industry sure as hell isn't - the odd shopping center might at the moment (often within the baby changing room) but that's about it.

juvenal

darkman2 wrote: »

In a word 'yes'. Its time for a law to be brought in distinctly for this. Laws already exist of course that can be interprated as suitable grounds on which to stop breast feeding in public full stop. It can be construed as illegal to do it in public atm. All it requires is enforcement. Whilst I would not say go that far I do think the gaurds should have powers to arrest or move on those who are breast feeding openly in blatantly inappropriate places or public transport or restaurants (how anyone could condone it in restaurants is beyond me - thats just not right and not particularly hygenic either for that matter!).

OK - either you're a very good troll or you've some very grave issues.

Legislation already exists in Ireland in Ireland ensuring that mothers have legal protection to breastfeed in public and also in public houses.

The Equal Status Act (2000 - 2004) and the Intoxicating Liqour Act (2003) protect mothers from discrimination if they are breastfeeding, and the Department of Health & Children have been running campaigns for several years to encourage mothers to breastfeed. The Maternity Protection (Amendment) Act (2004) allows mothers to take breaks in a place of employment to breastfeed an infant up to 6 months old without a loss in pay.

I don't think your dream of legislation restricting mothers breastfeeding in public will be a reality any time soon (thank God!)

zing wrote: »

No TD in their right mind would suggest introducing legislation to limit/restrict a mothers right to breast feed their babies (be that based on location or anything else). If they did they could kiss their seat in the Dail goodbye come the next election.

Thankfully, despite some instances that would suggest otherwise, our TD's aren't as narrow-minded or conservative as some of our fellow posters.

darkman2 wrote: »

Im not suggesting a major crackdown. Just if they see it happening go over and have a word and move them on.

LOL - please tell me you're a troll! You want the Gardaí to start a crackdown on nursing mothers?

"Operation Banish Breast: Starve the children":rolleyes:

Gauge

Davidius wrote: »

If I'm ever bothered by breast feeding then I'll be glad because it means that I obviously don't have anything else to worry about. :pac:

I don't know about that, being so severely bothered by something like breast feeding is often an indication of a broken back, or some other kind of spinal injury that prevents you from being able to turn your neck.

darkman2

juvenal wrote: »

"Operation Banish Breast: Starve the children":rolleyes:

Right so I dislike Breast feeding in public and that translates to you as 'starve the children':rolleyes:

Gauge

See, here's the thing: it's not about you. It has nothing, whatsoever, in the world, to do with you. Yet you hold an disturbingly large amount of disgust for women who dare to feed their children in public, and it's kind of hard to get my head around that when, again, it has nothing to do with you.

There's a simple solution to your problem(emphasis on the your part of that). You just don't look. I presume these women are not forcing you to stare at them. So the next time you see them, you turn away, and your problem is solved. What's so hard about that? No need to get the gardai involved. No need for the woman to have to feed her baby in a toilet. Fairly simple solution, or do you have a problem with that as well?

And a question for people who are so disgusted by public breast feeding: do you recoil in horror when you see someone swigging from a pint of milk in public? I know a pint of cow's milk isn't exactly the same as seeing a portion of a woman's breast, but it really makes me wonder why people are free to drink milk that originally came from a cow's boob wherever they like, but people are grossed out by babies drinking exactly what they are meant to be drinking.

juvenal

darkman2 wrote: »

Right so I dislike Breast feeding in public and that translates to you as 'starve the children'

You are seriously advocating members of the country's national police service to take action against women breastfeeding in public - how did you expect me to react!?

You appear to be in favour of criminalising breastfeeding in public - Are you a member of the Mutaween?

seahorse

This notion that a person must regard breastfeeding as dirty in order to object to its being done in public is pure nonsense, and I say that as a former nursing mother. If I thought breastfeeding was dirty I wouldn’t have done it myself.

I never breastfed in public out of a sense of basic respect for people. Why should I, or any woman, assume the right to put their own convenience above the convenience of others? The right of other people to sit in public places without being made to feel uncomfortable is something I always held in pretty high regard, and it really didn’t take much effort for me to accommodate that. The solution was astonishingly simple: Here’s what I did – I bought a breast-pump! :eek:

I am annoyed when I go out in public with my son who's now in his teens (who I had the courtesy to feed with expressed breast milk) and have to watch him going all shades of red because some inconsiderate woman is sitting three feet away with her baps out because she clearly prioritises herself above all other members of the public sitting anywhere near her. So yes, it does annoy me that some women couldn’t be bothered to expend the small amount of extra time and energy I did to show a bit of consideration to others, and I'm not the least bit sorry to say so.

juvenal

seahorse wrote: »

This notion that a person must regard breastfeeding as dirty in order to object to its being done in public is pure nonsense, and I say that as a former nursing mother. If I thought breastfeeding was dirty I wouldn’t have done it myself.

Kudos seahorse for making a personal decision to use a breast pump and prepare bottles before you left home. You are fully entitled to feed your infant child however you see fit, yet you think other mothers should not have the liberty to make this decision?

seahorse wrote: »

I never breastfed in public out of a sense of basic respect for people. Why should I, or any woman, assume the right to put their own convenience above the convenience of others? The right of other people to sit in public places without being made to feel uncomfortable is something I always held in pretty high regard, and it really didn’t take much effort for me to accommodate that. The solution was astonishingly simple: Here’s what I did – I bought a breast-pump! :eek:

How is performing a personal act with your child disrespecting other members of the public? As I've already pointed out, I don't think people would give a stranger a second glance normally, but when they're breastfeeding some people can't seem to tear their eyes away! Myself and other posters here have outlined that people's own unease is their issue, not breastfeeing per se - and frankly I think it's emotionally and socially immature if people are uncomfortable seeing a mother bresatfeed in public.

seahorse wrote: »

I am annoyed when I go out in public with my son who's now in his teens (who I had the courtesy to feed with expressed breast milk) and have to watch him going all shades of red because some inconsiderate woman is sitting three feet away with her baps out because she clearly prioritises herself above all other members of the public sitting anywhere near her. So yes, it does annoy me that some women couldn’t be bothered to expend the small amount of extra time and energy I did to show a bit of consideration to others, and I'm not the least bit sorry to say so.

I've yet to see a mother who breastfeeds with "her baps out"; you'd swear there were people topless in public.

You're annoyed because you're son is embarrassed by someone else's actions? If the woman was sitting there minding her own business and discreetly breastfeeding her infant child, then your son shouldn't feel the slightest bit embarrassed. In fact I think the real reason your son is probably embarrassed is the fact that his mother is present, and he doesn't know how to handle it, as opposed to someone breastfeeding. If he was with his mates, or if he were looking at page 3 in The Sun I doubt he'd be crimson.:rolleyes:

I'm not going to suggest that you son is immature, we've all been teenagers and we know what it's like, too cool for school and knowing it all - but IMO if he's that embarrassed by someone breastfeeding in his presence, then he has a lot of growing up to do. Has he younger siblings that were also breastfed?

Davidius

As a teenager, I feel insulted that you would imply that I am not too cool for school and that I do not know it all. I'll have you know that I'm very cool, and it is quite reasonable to assume that my coolness goes beyond a level that requires me to attend school. Also, I think I know just a bit more than you which is pretty evident in your very much incorrect claim that I'm not too cool for school.

seahorse

juvenal wrote: »

I'm not going to suggest that you son is immature, we've all been teenagers and we know what it's like - but IMO if he's that embarrassed by someone breastfeeding in his presence, then he has a lot of growing up to do.

In your own teens, didn’t you? In any case, this thread isn’t about my son; it's about breastfeeding in public, and as such, I think the responses and attitudes of the public are relevant, even those which contravene the majority of opinion expressed here.

The ‘It’s is the most natural thing in the world’ argument is well worn and doesn’t hold any weight with me. There are a lot of human practices and behaviours vying for the title of the ‘most natural thing in the world’. Take lovemaking, for example; surely we could say that’s a reasonable contender for the label? Yet if I engaged in it with my partner in public we’d be promptly arrested and further to that, splattered all over the newspapers the following day.

The reality (whether some people like it or not) is that some members of the public are every bit as offended by public breastfeeding as others are by public intercourse. Now personally, I would find that far too extreme a comparison, but that is not the point, as the whole world does not revolve around me; the facts are that some people are just as offended by breastfeeding, and bearing that in mind, I just don’t understand why nursing mothers insist on feeding their babies straight from their breasts in public when I know from witnessing the motherhoods of God knows how many relatives and friends and also from my own personal experience that there’s just no need for it. Obviously, while out and about, it’s more physically convenient, but it is in no way more physically necessary.

As for the nonsense about some babies refusing bottles; those are obviously babies who’ve had a breast in their mouth every time they’ve demanded one. Any infant left to get even mildly hungry will change their mind and any mother who doesn’t know this is a mother who’s never expended the effort to figure it out for herself. What are those women trying to say? That if their breast milk dried up tomorrow their babies would die of hunger???

juvenal

seahorse wrote: »

In your own teens, didn’t you? In any case, this thread isn’t about my son; it's about breastfeeding in public, and as such, I think the responses and attitudes of the public are relevant, even those which contravene the majority of opinion expressed here.

.............................................

That if their breast milk dried up tomorrow their babies would die of hunger???

We are all growing up - and I'd just like to point out that you brought your son into the discussion and spoke about your annoyance with his unease. Using a teenager's discomfort isn't really a great argument, as they're generally uneasy about a lot of things in their parent's presence.

Anyway, I don't think any rational poster here is suggesting that every mother should just wantonly expose herself on a whim in public just to make a point about freedom of expression. I've no problem with breastfeeding in public, and I don't think society in general should either. I do however, agree that mothers could exercise a little discretion. As a previous poster pointed out, breastfeeding in the queue at the supermarket is probably pushing it a bit by anyone's standards. I would also agree that a mother could (and anyone I've seen has), use small towel as they are feeding the infant.

Suggesting that a mother disappear into a bathroom to breastfeed is ridiculous, as I don't expect anyone here to eat in the toilet. If a mother wishes to prepare bottles of breastmilk for the day ahead, but I'd also respect the wishes of a mother who decided to breastfeed directly when they felt it necessary.

I completely understand that some people have an issue with seeing people breastfeed in public, but some people also have issues with people of a different race or culture. I know some people in Ireland who would be physically uncomfortable if they were had to deal with a Asian or African person during the course of their day - but that doesn't mean society as a whole has to tolerate some people's discomfort.

seahorse

juvenal wrote: »

We are all growing up - and I'd just like to point out that you brought your son into the discussion and spoke about your annoyance with his unease.

I did, as a single example. Here's another: (and my son was in absence that night, in case you were wondering)

As I've said, I personally am annoyed when I see that some women couldn’t be bothered to go to the small lengths I did to have a bit of regard for others in public. In fairness to you, you say you’ve never witnessed women feeding with “their baps out”, so I assume you've never seen women pulling their tops up and letting it all hang loose for a baby on one breast and a toddler on the other, and if so then you really won’t relate to what I'm talking about.

Here is my opinion, and you’re welcome to take it or leave it: When people have worked their arses off all week and are relaxing in a restaurant on a Friday or Saturday evening I think they ought to be able to eat their dinner without the sight of two massive halogen bulbs with infants sucking the sh!t out of them hanging out for all to see. I have seen that, and I felt like telling the woman in question to cop the fuk on, to be honest. This shyte started towards the end of the main course, and let’s just say it's just as well I'm not a dessert woman.

marti101

Seahorse as i said earlier i have 2 boys 12 and 13 and i breastfeed everywhere even if they are present and they dont bab an eyelid.I think its down to you and all your negative views about breastfeeding in public,no wonder the boy doesnt know where to look.And before you ask i do have respect for myself blah blah blah,but i also believe my son has the right to be fed then and there.I have fed on buses in the zoo,in coffee shopsAnd i dont sit there with my baps out as you make out.I dont like expressing to me its not worth the hassle,are you just jealous that some women have the balls to feed in public but you didnt.If you dont mind me asking you hoow long did you breastfeed for.Im just curious.

Wibbs

darkman2 wrote: »

Are you suggesting that the vast majority of the population are not as healthy because they were not breast fed

No but it adds to it.

Chances are you were not breast fed.

I was.

Breast feeding is not needed today - there are so many feeding products for babies that they cannot find room on the shelves to put them all. Unless you can prove it is needed then there are no arguments to be had. I think you missed the point of my post actually.

You're either grossly ignorant of the subject or on a wind up. Since the former is hard to believe in this day and age, I'll err on the side of the latter.

seahorse

marti101 wrote: »

Seahorse as i said earlier i have 2 boys 12 and 13 and i breastfeed everywhere even if they are present and they dont bab an eyelid.I think its down to you and all your negative views about breastfeeding in public,no wonder the boy doesnt know where to look.

He doesn’t know where to look for the same reason many others don’t, whether or not it conveniences you to believe it. It'd be hard for him to have adopted my views since we've never discussed breastfeeding beyond my telling him that he was breastfed himself.

marti101 wrote: »

And before you ask i do have respect for myself blah blah blah,but i also believe my son has the right to be fed then and there.

I don’t doubt that you hold yourself in high regard Marti101; it's your regard for others I find questionable. I don’t doubt that your baby ought to be fed there and then either; it surely should, the same as my own: that's why I always made sure I expressed enough milk before I left the house.

marti101 wrote: »

I have fed on buses in the zoo,in coffee shopsAnd i dont sit there with my baps out as you make out.

That comment was not directed at you personally Marti101, obviously, since I've never seen how you feed your baby.

marti101 wrote: »

I dont like expressing to me its not worth the hassle,are you just jealous that some women have the balls to feed in public but you didnt.

Well, I'm sorry and I'm not trying to be mean, but if breastfeeding in public is something you'd consider it takes "balls" to do that would suggest to me you've never had to call on any real courage in your life.

marti101 wrote: »

If you dont mind me asking you hoow long did you breastfeed for.Im just curious.

Yeah, and I can imagine why. I suppose next you'll be telling me however long I fed for wasn’t long enough to appreciate an experience, which, surprise surprise, you'll no doubt have a thorough understanding of. :rolleyes: But since you're asking, I fed my child purely breast milk via bottle and breast for his first eight months and alternated between breast and formula from eight to ten months.

Incidentally, for any other nursing mothers reading this; the switch from breast milk to formula is much easier (i.e. a lot less bawling!) when the baby has been raised used to the bottle to begin with.

There have been some very ignorant anti-breastfeeding opinions expressed on this thread and I hope mine won’t be lumped in with them. I firmly believe that breast milk is the most nutritious sustenance an infant can possibly have; that’s why I made sure my own baby got it. My point is that mothers can ensure they don’t offend or discomfort others while seeing to it their babies get the best nutrition going, and I really cannot conjure up any reason for women not to do so. I can imagine some excuses alright; laziness being top of the list.

Obviously this debate could go on and on as people have such different and unwavering attitudes, but here is one point I think the public breastfeeding brigade out to consider: Juvenal asked:

How is performing a personal act with your child disrespecting other members of the public?

Here's my answer to that: When you are breastfeeding your child in private it is a personal act - when you are doing the same thing in public it is both a personal and an open and communal act. That is something a lot of breastfeeding mothers unfortunately choose to ignore, apparently because taking small steps not to discomfort others is "not worth the hassle".

javaboy

I for one think it's an absolute disgrace that people think they can feed a troll in public. It should be banned!

Earthhorse

seahorse wrote: »

The reality (whether some people like it or not) is that some members of the public are every bit as offended by public breastfeeding as others are by public intercourse. Now personally, I would find that far too extreme a comparison, but that is not the point, as the whole world does not revolve around me...

I'm kinda surprised at the stance you've taken in this thread, even if I understand it. Some people may very well be offended by breastfeeding in public. As juvenal pointed out some people are also offended by people of different colour. Some are offended by public displays of affection, especially between homosexual couples. It's not the job of every member of society to cater for the tastes of every other member.

The world doesn't revolve around me, or you, or darkman2. The majority of people don't give public breastfeeding a second thought and do not find it discomforting in any way.

Dudess

Seahorse, what about when a woman has a cardigan or whatever that the baby can nestle into? That's what seems to be the case for the vast majority of breastfeeding women I've seen.

Quality

Seahorse, your comments are down right misogynistic...

Fair play to you if you could express enough milk to go out for the day.. But I found expressing uncomfortable and time consuming.

Breast feeding women are also advised not to mix bottle and breast for the first few months as this can be confusing to the baby.

Also, If I was to bottle feed my child instead of breast feed it while out my boobs would be full and uncomfortable.

I would not be willing to put my life on hold because I have a baby, A baby is an addition to my life, Therefore why should I lock myself up to breast feed baby just so not to offend you or others?

I am proud to say I breast fed my kids, I hope my children will breast feed their children.. I got great pleasure of knowing I grew a baby inside me for 9 months and then continued to feed and nourish my little newborn into a strong healthy baby.

As said before, I think breastfeeding should be encouraged and embraced.:)

Dudess

Davidius wrote: »

As a teenager, I feel insulted that you would imply that I am not too cool for school and that I do not know it all. I'll have you know that I'm very cool, and it is quite reasonable to assume that my coolness goes beyond a level that requires me to attend school. Also, I think I know just a bit more than you which is pretty evident in your very much incorrect claim that I'm not too cool for school.

LOL

I love some of the teenagers on Boards - they are more intelligent and articulate and witty and mature than some 30-somethings I know!

Macha

Another important point is that over 90% of people in the poll say they have no problem with it. Why cater to the stuffy minority? Why should a woman have to go through more inconvenience because out of the 10 people in that cafe, one person can't just mind their own business but has to huff and puff over something that really doesn't concern them?

I have lived in another country where women openly breastfeed all the time. I was a kid & because none of the adults made a big deal out of it, I figured it wasn't a big deal. Their society is a hell of a lot less uptight than we are about sex and the natural body - and it is definitely a more healthy attitude.

Dudess

Look, to be honest, I'm not gonna get too right-on about it and deny that even open-minded people are gonna get a bit uncomfortable about exposed breasts. Sure, guys for instance, have no problem with it when watching porn, going to strip clubs, browsing smutty mags etc, but it's all about context.

However, if a lactating mum breastfeeds her baby and hides her boob behind a cardigan or whatever, creating a little "snug" for the baby, and she does her best to cover her boob and it ends up being flashed for a split second, well I can't relate to anyone who'd have objections to that.

marti101

That is one of the reasons i breastfed was the convenience,as was said earlier just because some people express doesnt mean its for everybody.If i wanted to put the baby on the bottles i would have used formula and done it that way.

Dudess

Frankly, the notion of expressing makes me squirm... The sensation of a baby chomping away probably isn't great either, but I'd say it's preferable to expressing.

That's another thing - mammaries are quite sensitive and it doesn't take a lot to cause them pain and discomfort. Maybe people who are so adamant that a woman express her milk should bear that in mind.