Breast feeding - does it bother you?

dr.bollocko

Dudess wrote: »

LOL

I love some of the teenagers on Boards - they are more intelligent and articulate and witty and mature than some 30-somethings I know!

There is a jailbait social group for that sort of thing dudess.

Dudess

Shh... Ixnae on the ailbaitjai...

MrsGoose

DON'T FEED THE TROLLS

TerrorFirmer

I think people have started to turn this into breastfeeding in general, that was never what it was about. Especially Quality's post, which received more then one 'thanks', critiques Seahorses perfectly rational post as if it were an anti-breastfeeding one when in reality all it boiled down to was 'Breastfeeding: A time and a place.' Sure, if you wanted to take the frankly, crazy, 'Look away, and it won't bother you approach', then by that logic people would be taking dumps in the middle of the street- sure isn't that as natural as breastfeeding? But you just don't do it because it makes people uncomfortable. Likewise, you could just tell your kid not to look at the man flashing his willy for all to see and would that make it OK? No, of course not. It's not as simple as calling it a natural function that shouldn't be hidden. There are infinite amounts of natural functions that we restrict to privacy because that's just the way we're all conditioned. Personally I don't have a huge problem with breastfeeding in public or anything but it hardly takes effort to cover yourself up, in respect of those around you even if it doesn't bother you. Breastfeeding in public, with a little coverage - fine! Breastfeeding in public with your tits hanging out for all to see in a very public place - yes, I believe, is inappropriate because there's no need for it.

juvenal

seahorse wrote: »

He doesn’t know where to look for the same reason many others don’t, whether or not it conveniences you to believe it. It'd be hard for him to have adopted my views since we've never discussed breastfeeding beyond my telling him that he was breastfed himself.

...........................

Here's my answer to that: When you are breastfeeding your child in private it is a personal act - when you are doing the same thing in public it is both a personal and an open and communal act. That is something a lot of breastfeeding mothers unfortunately choose to ignore, apparently because taking small steps not to discomfort others is "not worth the hassle".

Seahorse, two last things - when you were at home did you breastfeed your son or continue to pump and feed him breastmilk through a bottle?

And also, are you from Ireland, or living there?

Quality

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

I think people have started to turn this into breastfeeding in general, that was never what it was about. Especially Quality's post, which received more then one 'thanks', critiques Seahorses perfectly rational post as if it were an anti-breastfeeding one when in reality all it boiled down to was 'Breastfeeding: A time and a place.' Sure, if you wanted to take the frankly, crazy, 'Look away, and it won't bother you approach', then by that logic people would be taking dumps in the middle of the street- sure isn't that as natural as breastfeeding? But you just don't do it because it makes people uncomfortable. Likewise, you could just tell your kid not to look at the man flashing his willy for all to see and would that make it OK? No, of course not. It's not as simple as calling it a natural function that shouldn't be hidden. There are infinite amounts of natural functions that we restrict to privacy because that's just the way we're all conditioned. Personally I don't have a huge problem with breastfeeding in public or anything but it hardly takes effort to cover yourself up, in respect of those around you even if it doesn't bother you. Breastfeeding in public, with a little coverage - fine! Breastfeeding in public with your tits hanging out for all to see in a very public place - yes, I believe, is inappropriate because there's no need for it.

As I said before, Breast feeding is not done to humiliate other people.. It is done to nourish a child...

It is completely ridiculous to refer to having a "sh1te" to breastfeeding a child, would you cop onto yourself...

dbnavan

Jay D wrote: »

I was severely put off by a gypsy woman doing this on a bus while at least 8 men in her company were present :eek: Lots of kids there too, in her company.....

Time and a place

Bullsh1t, its the most natural thing in the world, its only the Western world that have made breasts sexual, depending on the context for which it is exposed the breast does not have to be 'inappropriate'

Permabear

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dbnavan

donegalfella wrote: »

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Excellent response, I couldnt have said it better myself.

TerrorFirmer

donegalfella wrote: »

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You just proved my point, it's conditioning. That's why topless at the beach does not equate topless in a cafe - you just said it yourself. Just because it's conditioning, does not mean it's true. Of course it's not normal to see a topless woman in a cafe - no matter what you want to think that's the way it is and always will be. Just because it's acceptable somewhere else, does not mean it's as acceptable in another context.

I couldn't give two craps about the actual breastfeeding, no, I've never seen a woman feeding with her 'tits hanging out'. but others seem to think that's ok. I even said myself that a woman breastfeeding discreetly is perfectly fine and normal.

marti101

I have yet to see any women siting breastfeeding her child with her tit on display,it just doesnt happen.You might have seen when the baby was latching on or off or if they get to a certain age they tend to look around them.I am always discreet and have brought my sons up not to be embarrassed about feeding a baby.How could you compare taking a dump and feeding a baby in the same sentance it just doesnt make sense.If anybody ever came up to me id tell them to feck off and mind their business.I

dbnavan

Should we prosume that all the people against it think mothers should be chained to the house for the period of breast feeding or what alternitive should they come up with,

The same guys giving out are probably the same blokes that would take pleasure in oggling a 20 something girl with a low cut top in the same resturant, where in actual fact they can probably see more flesh.

tallaght01

Surely it's unfair to say a woman shouldn't be able to feed her child in public.

Having said that, I think that if I were a woman I'd be pretty embarrassed gettin me baps out on the 16a, so I'd probably express and bottle feed the kiddy when I was out and about.

But the reality is that having a stranger's boob getting pulled out in front of you WILL make some people uncomfortable, whatever the rights and wrongs of that. It doesn't make me uncomfortable, but I can see why some people are a bit uneasy about it.

It's like a diabetic giving themselves an injection. It's a neccessity, but some people won't like it being done in front of them.

A rational, civil debate on the issue is what's needed. We need to realise that kids who are exclusively breast fed need to feed. And we also need to realise that some people will be uncomfortable with a woman taking her breasts out in a cafe beside them. It doesn't make them bad people.

But we sure as well won't ever come to any kind of understanding when everyone is shouting each other down.

Thank you please.

Permabear

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marti101

I think if you look at the poll it says the majority of people dont mind.So with that in mind id say we have won the DEBATE.

Macha

marti101 wrote: »

we have won the DEBATE.

Well that's a relief.

TerrorFirmer

donegalfella wrote: »

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I never disagreed with that at all. I think breastfeeding in public with a bit of discretion is absolutely acceptable and there's no reason it shouldn't be. I was more pointing out that breastfeeding in public without an ounce of discretion or regard for other people in the vicinity wasn't on - . And no, like I've said, I've never seen that, in fact I haven't seen much breastfeeding at all but what I have has been discreet to the point of being about as inoffensive as could possibly be. But going by a few other stories here, people have seen such instances of blatant tit flaunting.

Permabear

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seahorse

marti101 wrote: »

I think if you look at the poll it says the majority of people dont mind.So with that in mind id say we have won the DEBATE.

Marti101: I think that's a pretty childish attitude tbh. This thread isn’t about winning or losing, it's about discussing. Also, yes, the majority of the people who've posted here have no problem with it; that doesn’t mean the majority of people in society at large would agree. I don’t know what way a nationwide poll would break down and I don’t pretend to know, but I highly doubt that boards is representative of it.

Quality: your 'misogynist' comment is probably the weirdest attempt at an insult I've ever had levelled against me. I mean, think about what you're saying - I reckon female-hating breastfeeding mothers are pretty thin on the ground!

Juvenal: I always fed my baby directly from the breast when either at home or in places where I knew it was sure not to make anyone uncomfortable, such as in the homes of close female friends; the breast pump and bottle was strictly for when I was out and about. I found that if I gave my baby a long feed just before I left he often wouldn’t need another till I got home, depending of course on whether or not I was going straight home. If I wasn’t I expressed enough milk to keep him going till I got there. From personal experience, it really isn’t the horrendous nightmare some women are making it out to be. Expressing breast milk is much much quicker than breastfeeding, you’d fill a bottle in a few minutes. Also, breastfed babies are extraordinarily calm and placid when physically close to their mothers, which was why I used a baby-sling for so long. (I used it till he was too heavy actually) I found the effect of having him close to me was beneficial in lots of ways, one being that he slept a lot, and very deeply, and often slept beyond the time when he’d normally have been wanting a feed; so if I was not in the mood of expressing milk that day I’d make sure he was in the baby-sling and got a feed before I left the house and before I left for home and I could pretty much guarantee he’d be grand till I got home. The fact is you can successfully breastfeed without having to do it in front of all and sundry, regardless what some women would have you believe. Oh and yes, I am Irish!

Dudess: the majority of women I've seen breastfeeding have been discreet. Apologies if I framed what I said in a way that suggested otherwise. Some women though (and women I've seen with my own eyes) have been as far in the opposite of discreet as it's possible to be. I also think that, however discreet a mother is in feeding her baby, there are still places and times which ought to be off limits. This now, I think, is a good example of that:

A friend of mine dropped in this afternoon and I was telling her about this thread and we got talking about the subject under discussion. She said she’d never really had any opinions on it one way or the other until one day standing outside the school gates waiting to collect her youngest from the junior infants class. The bell rang and a sixty or so four and five year olds poured out into the yard at which point a neighbour of hers (a local mother who lived a couple of streets away from the school) pulled up her top and fed her nipple into her babies mouth. Apparently the woman didn’t give a toss how many very young children saw her; or how little they knew about biology, or how much or how little their parents may have wanted to tell them at that point.

As far as my friend is concerned, public breastfeeding itself doesn’t bother her, but she reckons there’s a time and a place and that was neither the time nor the place, and I can get where she’s coming from because that behaviour is just typical of the sort of inconsiderate attitude I am talking about. It’s an attitude that says: ‘I don’t give a damn at what stage you intend to discuss biology and the fundamentals of life with your four year old; you damn well WILL discuss them, and right now, because it doesn’t suit me to wait five minutes till I’ve walked the two streets home’.

There’s a lot of talk about the rights of breastfeeding mothers, but where were the rights of the sixty or so other parents in that schoolyard? Or do the rights of the breastfeeding mother override them all???

Permabear

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juvenal

I think we can agree than most mothers use discretion when breastfeeding and shouldn't be prevented from breastfeeding in public. The halogen comment was sensationalist. A bit of common sense for all concerned and we'll go a long way as a society.

In fairness seahorse, the school incident highlights that society has sexualised breasts to some people, and we've lost sight of their primary function. It's nothing to do with biology education - why would you feel unable to explain to a child that breasts are a mothers way of feeding their infant?

I wouldn't care a jot if my four or five year old saw a mother breastfeeding, but by trying to hide it you're contributing to the taboo. Some of these children would have been breastfeeding themselves for up to a year or two before this age, and possibly some were even still breastfeeding at that age!

Breastfeeding is hardly the birds and the bees, we're not talking about "how babies are made" here. As donegalfella pointed out, adults seems to have the hangups, children wouldn't give it a second thought if it wasn't treated as something to be hidden. Would the same attitude apply to a beach situation where women were sunbathing topless, or a news/documentary item on television about African women who are also topless? Would you dive for the remote so the child wasn't "corrupted"?

TBH it smacks of the Helen Lovejoy "won't somebody please think of the children" attitude.

seahorse

juvenal wrote: »

TBH it smacks of the Helen Lovejoy "won't somebody please think of the children" attitude.

If you think so then you've obviously missed my point; my emphasis was on the parents, not the kids. I'll copy and paste it for you:

"There’s a lot of talk about the rights of breastfeeding mothers, but where were the rights of the sixty or so other parents in that schoolyard? Or do the rights of the breastfeeding mother override them all???"

There's no point going on and on about this so I think I'll just step out of this discussion now, I'm knackered tired here actually, and there's no point going round in circles as we're never going to find a common ground. Some people believe in public breastfeeding in any and all circumstances; some don’t.

Oh but before I go I have to say, the halogen comment was a loooooong way from sensationalist; I've yet to come across the lingo that could possibly sensationalise what I saw that day! lol

marti101

How can you call me childish when other people have likened it to having a dump or we are meant to feed the baby in the toilets.Look the way i see itthere was a poll done and it came out in our favour.Whats childish is to see grown men and women going mad about something that [a]has nothing to do with them and they have just realised that they havent got control over everybody else.We live in a free[ish] society and really we should be supporting each other rather than tearing strips off each other.Tbh its usually the children who are more understanding,so maybe take a leaf out of their book and dont be so judgemental.

juvenal

seahorse wrote: »

Apparently the woman didn’t give a toss how many very young children saw her; or how little they knew about biology, or how much or how little their parents may have wanted to tell them at that point.

As far as my friend is concerned, public breastfeeding itself doesn’t bother her, but she reckons there’s a time and a place and that was neither the time nor the place, and I can get where she’s coming from because that behaviour is just typical of the sort of inconsiderate attitude I am talking about. It’s an attitude that says: ‘I don’t give a damn at what stage you intend to discuss biology and the fundamentals of life with your four year old; you damn well WILL discuss them, and right now, because it doesn’t suit me to wait five minutes till I’ve walked the two streets home’.

There’s a lot of talk about the rights of breastfeeding mothers, but where were the rights of the sixty or so other parents in that schoolyard? Or do the rights of the breastfeeding mother override them all???

Seahorse, it's abundantly clear that the issue here was "what would the children think" - not "what would the adults think". Your point was about how would the parents deal with their children seeing this - not how would they feel themselves. It's all about the children.

I fully appreciate your point of view, but tbh so far two of your three examples were based around how children react to a woman breastfeeding - and the third relating to how can an adult relax in a restaurant when a woman is breastfeeding at another table. If children don't understand breastfeeding then it is an issue the parents have failed to address, it's ludicrous to suggest that breastfeeding mothers are forcing parents to educate their children.:rolleyes:

I respect what you've said for the most part, and I don't tar your views with the same brush as some of the other views expressed above, which were downright immature and misinformed. I'm just thankful that it's not the prevailing view in our society.

Earthhorse

tallaght01 wrote: »

But we sure as well won't ever come to any kind of understanding when everyone is shouting each other down.

Just give us another ten pages of shouting each other down.

I PROMISE IT'LL ALL WORK OUT!

marti101 wrote: »

I think if you look at the poll it says the majority of people dont mind.So with that in mind id say we have won the DEBATE.

Woohoo! We won!

Going on a breastfeeding rampage tonight.

seahorse wrote: »

baby-sling

Gotta get me one of those.

*launches baby across thread*

kizzyr

hunnybunny wrote: »

I was out in town with an American friend. We were having a coffee, there was a young mother with a toddler and a baby. She opened her shirt and fed her child. I didn t even notice. My friend was disgusted at this woman and whispered to me why couldn t she just go to the bathroom rather than expose herself in a cafe.

I thought my friend was being ridiculous and we got into quite a debate about it.

She thinks breast feeding is on a par with exposing yourself in public and is inappropriate and people shouldn t have to see it. She thinks breasts are a sexual thing and having a baby in front of them doesn t change anything.:rolleyes:

My point of view is breast feeding isn t dirty and if there isnt a mother and baby room, she can do it discreetly in public. It would be different if she was flashing her boobs around on purpose but she wasn t! I don t see why she should have to go to the bathroom to feed her child. I think breast feeding is the most natural thing in the world and healthy for the baby. Its what nature intended and it doesn t harm anyone except for narrow minded prudes!:D Thats just my opinion!

Am I being too liberal here? Does it make people feel uncomfortable? Would some men actually see this in a sexual manner?

I agree with you totally. Breasts are there to feed babies. I do hate it when women feed their baby after the baby is 12 months old. That isn't because I'm seeing someone's breasts but because it is silly to breast feed a baby at that stage anyway.
As for feeding the baby in the toilet........none of us would like to eat our lunch sitting on the toilet so why on earth should a baby be expected to?

Permabear

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ronbyrne2005

Why is it always the mingers and never the yummy mummies who breastfeed in public

Gauge

^ That's it. I quit this thread.

EcoGirl

There's a vicious circle thing going on in that if we don't see women b/f, it looks strange and disgusting, and so women don't do it in public if they can help it (expressing milk into bottles, I ask you!), and so it remains strange and disgusting.

Same as society used to be shocked and horrified at seeing women's ankles. It's all about what we're used to as a culture, not about any absolutes.

If you're used to seeing babies being b/f then you literally don't even notice it.

ronbyrne2005 wrote: »

Is'nt it the case that the benefits of breastfeeding can be fully achieved in first few days/weeks when Colostrum is produced and long term breastfeeding has little additional benefit (apart from cost and maybe bonding) compared to a short period of breastfeeding.

No, that isn't the case, far from it.

The disease-prevention aspect of breast-feeding lasts as long as the breast-feeding does. In fact, as the baby gets older and takes less (the baby takes more up to 6 months and once on solids the amount gradually decreases) - the concentration of antibodies actually increases to compensate for the smaller volume.

The breast-feeding action is very different to bottle-feeding, and that gives better jaw development which leads to fewer orthodontic problems in later life - and the longer b/f lasts, the better that works.

And one thing which hasn't been mentioned, that b/f protects the mother against breast cancer and ovarian cancer and the longer the b/f lasts the greater the protection.

So many reasons to b/f for longer than the few days the colostrum is present.

Also, somebody mentioned that b/f shouldn't go on longer than 12 months. In fact, humans are designed to be b/f for appx 4 years. Not saying we have to do that ... I know it's not in our culture. But there's a big jump between 1 year and 4 years. The World Health Organisation says that babies should ideally be b/f 'into the second year and beyond'.