new overheads , DAMN !

i57dwun4yb1pt8

OK, I fried the preamps in my oktavas , maybe god is telling me something .

anyway i need to get a new set of over heads budget = 500 - 800 euro

im thinking beyer m160 - but any suggestions welcome .

the room is totally dead low ceiling so no room sound will be included ( in case anyone mentions omni's ) - the cymbals and drums are darkish sounding as well .

the pre amp is a DAV BG1 .

im such an idiot , have to get the oktavs repaired and use them as spot mics later .

ogy

i know its over your budget but for another 300 quid you could get these: http://www.thomann.de/ie/neumann_km184mt_stereoset.htm
and be set for life!:)

why not get the oktavas repaired and flog them?

i57dwun4yb1pt8

ive heard the 184's are not as good as they could be .

also heard about the joesphson c 42 ( like an neumann 84 - not a 184 )

i will fix the oktavas , but i need mics , so may as well get good ones.

teamdresch

I don't care all that much for 184s.
Or any of the recent Neumann mics, really.
Except that live vocal mic thing, the 105. That's pretty reasonable.

I'd first figure out what kind of mic you're looking for.
SD condenser, LD condenser or ribbon.

With your budget, the M160 would be your best ribbon option.
They're nice mics, although I've mainly used them on rooms and guitars.
Must try them as overheads soon.

There's a ****load of choices in condensers.
Rode have them NTKs and K2.

Really what you need to do is borrow a couple of pairs and demo them in your room.
Anything else is pin the needle on the donkey time.

tweeky

If you could squeez €1000 2 x 414's would be the best, also handy for Vocals/Acoustic etc. Just watch the overheads on Joolz.
KM 84/184 are OK for Folk Jazz overheads but a bit twee for rock, IMO.

PaulBrewer

ogy wrote: »

i know its over your budget but for another 300 quid you could get these: http://www.thomann.de/ie/neumann_km184mt_stereoset.htm
and be set for life!:)

w

Superb! I'd sell em for that too ....

ogy

I don't care all that much for 184s.
Or any of the recent Neumann mics, really.

thats interesting, i figured theyd be the business
whats a good pair of overheads in the next price bracket above the likes of nt5s and okatavas?

2 x 414's would be the best

althought they are great mics, would you not be better with some form of SDC for overheads, for the higher frequency cymbal information and stuff?

PaulBrewer

ogy wrote: »

althought they are great mics, would you not be better with some form of SDC for overheads, for the higher frequency cymbal information and stuff?

Not necessarily, 414s are certainly one of the Industry standard OH mics.

trackmixstudio

The new c214 is the man for the job and next on my shopping list. It is a single diaphragm from a 414. As such it is basically a cardioid 414. This is perfect for overheads because you will never need fig8 or omni for oh. In fact I can't remember the last time I used a mic on anything but cardioid setting.
http://www.akg.com/site/products/powerslave,id,1080,pid,1080,nodeid,2,_language,EN.html
I sometimes use SDCs as overheads but find there is too much high mids and the response time is too fast causing harshness in the cymbals. Work well when you have a good non rock/metal drummer who knows to hit the cymbals lightly but not much use when you have some bozo trying to kill the cmybals with every hit!

studiorat

were those the octavas with the Dorsey mod?

I'd give the 160's a look or the octava ribbons, if you are worried about the transient response ie, suggesting small diagphram mic's you should try ribbons. 414's are good in hyper alright but a pair of fig 8 ribbons should be equally as narrow, I find the 414's a bit swishy in full cardioid when compared to a narrower pickup..

Using hypercardioid makes the pickup a bit narrower you see..

Soundman

You could keep an eye out on eBay for a pair of Shure SM81s. I managed to pick up an ex-studio pair for €450. They were a year old but looked like they just came out of the box.

danjokill

tweeky wrote: »

If you could squeez €1000 2 x 414's would be the best, also handy for Vocals/Acoustic etc. Just watch the overheads on Joolz.
KM 84/184 are OK for Folk Jazz overheads but a bit twee for rock, IMO.

Who's selling pairs of c414 for 1000?
Seem's very good price?

teamdresch

I love Coles/Royers for overheads myself, although you usually need a bit of EQ.

i57dwun4yb1pt8

yeah , i did the dorsey mod myself and they sounded good ,
but i noticed a slight thinnerness in one of them

so i opend em up plugged em into phantom power and was comparing voltages ,
and managed to short the phantom power across the boards when the probe slipped .

so now thay only produce a signal at super high gain ( preamp up full )
i reckon i blew the fet in each board.
thanks for the suggestiuosn so far.
i want small diameters for more accuracy .

my room is dead sounding so i reckon figure 8 or omnis would be no good , no room sound to use anyway.
cardiods seem the best option .

since its so dead think a bright mic would be best , and i can cut any nonneeded brightness
( instead of boosting a darker mic like a ribbon ? )

so at the moment im leaning towards the josephson c42
the shure sm81
or the beyer mc 930

cant afford royers or coles or gefell m300 ( which sounds great )
or even neumann km184 .

teamdresch

DaDumTish wrote: »

cant afford royers or coles or gefell m300 ( which sounds great )

Yeah, should have said I wasn't suggesting them, since they're out of budget.
If possible, I'd demo the Jospehsons, Rode K2/NTK and maybe the Beyer M160s.

johnnylakes

Got a pair of Rhode NT5 recently...great sound for under 300 yoyos....

i57dwun4yb1pt8

looks like the oktavas just need new FETS which iv oredered .

but also got me hands on some josephson c42's 770 euno's but its about time i got some pro level consendsers so think i will sell the okkies
( pity cos they sound lovely though.)

studiorat

DaDumTish wrote: »

my room is dead sounding so i reckon figure 8 or omnis would be no good , no room sound to use anyway.
cardiods seem the best option .

Figure 8 is usually narrower at the front and back than cardioid and omni doesn't get bass tip up (proximity effect) so they are useful even if
you aren't trying to pick up the room sound.

example: you are recording 3 or 4 musicians each have their own spot mic. Now, if you are getting spill from one mic to another using cardioid mic's there is going to be heavy colouration because the mic is picking up spill from the sides and behind, don't forget that polar patterns are heavily frequency responsive... An Omni microphone's spill will be less coloured because the frequency response is pretty much the same on all axis' so although you are picking up spill it's not going to have as much of a degrading sound than spill from a cardioid or fig 8. You get where I'm coming from.

Have a listen to a pair of omni microphones in an xy pair and then make up your mind... I often use a xy pair between the cymbals rather than that spot mic business, the overheads are much more usable as the actual drums sound better from this array than from the spaced pair imo.

I'd love to see the work you did on those octavas too...

teamdresch

Also the nulls at the side of a figure 8 have much more rejection than the back of a cardioid, so you can use that to your advantage (more likely with spot mics than overheads).

i57dwun4yb1pt8

thanks for the tips , I got the c42's - mad money ( for me ) - in testing as we speak.

the oktavas should be back in action this week - its a simple mod , repacling two transistors , a few resistors and caps . the board is tiny though so you need a small low power solder iron and a good solder sucker , a good light and a james bond type magnifying monocle ;-)

i57dwun4yb1pt8

ok, my tests with the c42 on overheads in dead room were tough , but i figured it out .

i tried it in the normal postion for the oktavas and it sounded brittle and thin and way to bright .

i actually thought a cable or the pre had shorted out.
so i was disappointed and wracking my old brain to figure out WTF was wrong.
i tried many of the usual ohead positions , all sounding thin and bright ( i was pulling the eq down by 5 from 5 k all the way up )

decided to pull them way off the kit in spaced pair as far as my ceiling allows.
( not far but at least 4 feet above the cymbals each side and more towards the front of the kit than the side )

and PRESTO ! sweetness out the ying yang.

and NO EQ at all switched in

this mic like AIR and lots of it on drums

very surprising to me anyway - I really feel they could do with at least another foot more of air, but so far so good .

very nice .