Match Thread: Liverpool vs. Boro [All pre/during/post match discussion in here]

ShiverinEskimo

copacetic wrote: »

has everyone forgotten the first half? Pool were well on top and created a fair bit just missing the final touch. second half boro sat back more and went fully on the counter attack, then we lacked the width to open them up. You would think boro had been well on top judging by comments above.

I think most agree that Liverpool were going for the brute-force buldgeoning up the middle. The amount of lazy long balls. Lacking a bit of creativity and Alonso's passing was very poor at times. Wild balls that ended up out.

Middlesboro are a decent side that know how to frustrate though.

A couple of little moments between Keane and Torres were nice, show's maybe something for Pool fans to look forward to.

glenjamin

I still would have settled for 3 points from the opening 2 games. Would of been nice to have 4 or 6. I just hope we take out our anger on Stoke next week. No point in coming close to beating Liverpool and then getting a hiding from a few relegation candidate. Fair play to 'pool. I still don't think you're quite title contenders yet.

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Man you post bad. Boro were great today and were very unfortunate.

I'm on tilt! thats all.

LuckyLloyd

PHB wrote: »

Gerrard didn't play that badly. He's not a central midfielder anymore. He's a withdrawn striker. He has changed his game into that. How him Keane and Torres are gona link up is yet to be seen, that said, its a tough patch with no Mascherano and they've gotten through it even if they did it at the end of games.

Can't really infer much into how they'll perform for the rest of the season so far.

Agree with most of this. It's early days and Keane has yet to settle / we've yet to see what Benitez will do when everyone is available (drop Alonso / move Gerrard to the right / something else).

Alonso was pretty poor. We wasted numerous setpiece / corner opportunities. We struggled to link fluidly through the middle. And delivery from out wide or deep was poor for most of the game. We displayed errors in concentration by giving possession away weakly a couple of times / letting them in a bit too easy.

On the other hand Boro defended well and strung some nice moves together when they did get the ball. And what we did right was hang in there and force pressure in the last 15.

We have been bad in two games so far and won them both undeservedly. I mean - is this not what we have wanted to see for years?

Tusky

PHB wrote: »

Gerrard didn't play that badly. He's not a central midfielder anymore. He's a withdrawn striker. He has changed his game into that. How him Keane and Torres are gona link up is yet to be seen, that said, its a tough patch with no Mascherano and they've gotten through it even if they did it at the end of games.

Can't really infer much into how they'll perform for the rest of the season so far.

Not sure I agree with that. He may have played as an 'in the hole' player last season, but he played as a central midfielder for the vast majority of his career. To say he is no longer a central midfielder is silly. It may take him a while to adapt, but he can definitely play there. Hes sometimes a victim of his own versatility.

I dont think the problem today was him playing in CM, it was just him playing badly. Him AND alonso having bad games went against us.

LuckyLloyd

glenjamin wrote: »

I still would have settled for 3 points from the opening 2 games. Would of been nice to have 4 or 6. I just hope we take out our anger on Stoke next week. No point in coming close to beating Liverpool and then getting a hiding from a few relegation candidate. Fair play to 'pool. I still don't think you're quite title contenders yet.



I'm on tilt! thats all.

That is a language I can understand sir!!

Yeah, hard luck ye deserved better - but if your lads could play like that every week you'll enjoy a much better season this year imo. If Tuncay had finished that great move started by Mido down the left you'd have been celebrating a goal of the season too!! Good luck next week and beyond.

raven136

despite most of his bull##it was pat dolan right about alonso...he loses the ball but isnt fast enough or good enough tackler to win it back,hence rafa wanted Barry.
Some very poor passing from Liverpool today in general.

Dues Bellator

monkey9 wrote: »

Ran ragged?? What the hell are you talking about? Liverpool just didn't play well, Boro did. Boro look really good. They were very very unlucky!!

But ran ragged??? Typical manc

mmmm well i saw the game from a non lfc perspective and you were the home team and you were the poorer of the two teams, look its just a point of view i was hoping to see keane on the score sheet and was very dissapointed by what i saw thats all , a bit similar to how we played against the toon patetic i wasnt having a pop.

LuckyLloyd

almanu wrote: »

mmmm well i saw the game from a non lfc perspective and you were the home team and you were the poorer of the two teams, look its just a point of view i was hoping to see keane on the score sheet and was very dissapointed by what i saw thats all , a bit similar to how we played against the toon patetic i wasnt having a pop.

Well that's a little more measured to be fair. Yes, we were not good today but I don't think it's ever fair to say that a team which plays on the break; has less possession; and few enough penetrating movements (even if they were good when they happened) has run the other side "ragged". Boro can feel good about themselves though - they performed very well and seem to have an edge about them in the final third.

I think your post was indicative of a style of posting that is very common on football forums - i.e. making a very strong black and white statement. When the truth usually lies somewhere much more towards the middle of things.

Anyway, looks like us and you both have a lot of improvements to make on the basis of what we have both showed so far. And you guys remain strong favorites to finish well ahead of us in the table when it's all said and done next May.

Ardent

I was almost hoping for Boro to score another after Carra's equaliser. We didn't deserve to get anything from that game today and Benitez is due a lot of criticism.

Shocking team performance, but Alonso in particular was dreadul. How he didn't get hauled off at shortly after half time I'll never know.

It was evident again today that we won't come anywhere near winning the league this season. No wingers and too many poor/mediocre players in Kuyt, Babel, Pennant, Benayoun, etc.

Benitez for the sack at the end of this season unless a) he wises up soon and b) brings in some quality on the flanks.

raven136

ah the measured after match comments:D
lots of flak for alonso, poor game today and the same people were bitching at rafa for wanting rid of him.Who'd be a manager

Dues Bellator

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Well that's a little more measured to be fair. Yes, we were not good today but I don't think it's ever fair to say that a team which plays on the break; has less possession; and few enough penetrating movements (even if they were good when they happened) has run the other side "ragged". Boro can feel good about themselves though - they performed very well and seem to have an edge about them in the final third.

I think your post was indicative of a style of posting that is very common on football forums - i.e. making a very strong black and white statement. When the truth usually lies somewhere much more towards the middle of things.

Anyway, looks like us and you both have a lot of improvements to make on the basis of what we have both showed so far. And you guys remain strong favorites to finish well ahead of us in the table when it's all said and done next May.

fair point i realize im a utd fan and a comment about your team performance can be a bit eh lets say provocative but i feel you beleive i was just giving a fair and non bias view, as for us winning the league that would be great to equall your own fine record but i cant see it happening being realistic and if chelsea get robinio its going to be even harder,id be happy with the champions league with your selves in the final ,nearly got it last season, i couldnt beleive i was cheering lfc on just to get that tie, my wife tought i lost the plot lol.she being a celtic/lfc girl.mmmm funny how her passion for lfc only really started AFTER we got married

LuckyLloyd

raven136 wrote: »

ah the measured after match comments:D
lots of flak for alonso, poor game today and the same people were bitching at rafa for wanting rid of him.Who'd be a manager

Well, I never said we should stretch to keep him. His performance today was in the same vein as much of last season. But he did seem to do well in preseason and did well last weekend. I mean, along with the whole situation we need to wait for a couple of months and a lot more games before we start making definitive judgments.

LuckyLloyd

almanu wrote: »

fair point i realize im a utd fan and a comment about your team performance can be a bit eh lets say provocative but i feel you beleive i was just giving a fair and non bias view, as for us winning the league that would be great to equall your own fine record but i cant see it happening being realistic and if chelsea get robinio its going to be even harder,id be happy with the champions league with your selves in the final ,nearly got it last season, i couldnt beleive i was cheering lfc on just to get that tie, my wife tought i lost the plot lol.she being a celtic/lfc girl.mmmm funny how her passion for lfc only really started AFTER we got married

lolz. Women!!

Dont be at yourself

I didnt get a chance to see the game, but Rafa acknowledged before the game that Gerrard isn't fully fit - and hasnt been for a fortnight - but that he would play him because even if he's not on the pace, he's capable of changing the game with a moment of magic.

DeadSkin

Just on the standard of the corners, today we had 14 and against Sunderland we had 8, 22 corners in two games :eek:. the only one that sticks out was Kuyt's one to Skyrtle's head today.

Anywho, no sign of Finnan/Voronin/Pennant on the bench today, any word lately on these guys moving on.

Thrilled with the result today, Middlesboro' played well today, they defended well, Huth sticking his head where other players wouldn't. Wheater put in a couple of last ditch tackles.
Good to see Liverpool goin' a goal down late enough in a game and coming back to get an excellent result.
Winning ugly or badly, whatever ya wanna call it, is still a good 3 points!

Handsome Bob

Awful, awful performance by us and I think Boro were so unlucky. Huth and Wheater had Torres's number and Boro were quite simply efficient, with Mido having a fantastic contribution.

My fears became a reality; dropping Agger again and the team only too often resorted to hoofing the ball. Some people will say performing like that and still getting the win is the mark of a title campaign but we'll only get so far handing in such a pathetic performance. Truely awful.

spockety

Ardent wrote: »

I was almost hoping for Boro to score another after Carra's equaliser. We didn't deserve to get anything from that game today and Benitez is due a lot of criticism.

You're a Liverpool fan and you wanted 'boro to get an equalizer just for ammo to beat Benitez with? Shocking.

Shocking team performance, but Alonso in particular was dreadul. How he didn't get hauled off at shortly after half time I'll never know.

With Mascherano and Lucas away, who would you have replaced him with?

It was evident again today that we won't come anywhere near winning the league this season. No wingers and too many poor/mediocre players in Kuyt, Babel, Pennant, Benayoun, etc.

Poor Pennant, the guy wasn't even playing today and he gets stick for his performance.
Does the fact that he is getting nowhere near competitive games so far this season not tell you something, no?

Benitez for the sack at the end of this season unless a) he wises up soon and b) brings in some quality on the flanks.

If Liverpool win the league without Benitez a) wising up soon, or b) bringing in quality on the flanks, will you still want him sacked?

:rolleyes:

Handsome Bob

spockety wrote: »

You're a Liverpool fan and you wanted 'boro to get an equalizer just for ammo to beat Benitez with? Shocking.



With Mascherano and Lucas away, who would you have replaced him with?



Poor Pennant, the guy wasn't even playing today and he gets stick for his performance.
Does the fact that he is getting nowhere near competitive games so far this season not tell you something, no?



If Liverpool win the league without Benitez a) wising up soon, or b) bringing in quality on the flanks, will you still want him sacked?

:rolleyes:

I'm a Liverpool fan, and my view on the match is just above your post. How did you see the match spockety?

Hero Of College

If I saw Ronnie Whelan, I would slap his face.

That man is a disgrace.

Handsome Bob

Hero Of College wrote: »

If I saw Ronnie Whelan, I would slap his face.

That man is a disgrace.

The only way pundits can make themselves feel big, even if they are ex players for the team that they are criticizing, is to be negative. Whelan and Haughton are the worst.

Hero Of College

You have to love the stooges that work for RTE.

Spurs, the big threat, the swinging erect phallus of the non-top 4, the big cock that is going to rupture Liverpools cherry.

Beaten for the 2nd time in 2 games in 2 seasons. Signed a tonne of expensive talent- Bale, Bent, Bently, Modric. Must be £60m there.

Cant beat Sunderland at home. Liverpool beat them away. And then won again at home today, coming from behind to win in under 20 mins.

Can Liverpool get a word of praise? You joking me.

Fatso Whelan couldnt find a word. Passing hate and criticism off as constructive fact and opinion.

Oh, sure, its not Ramos fault Spurs cant buy a win. Its... Berbatovs.

Rafa, contending with the monumental ineptitude that is Rick Parry, turns 6 points out of 2 games, with half of his starting XI missing and his favoured signing thwarted.

But does he get a word of praise for it, from the living legend that is the corpulent Whelan?

Does he fukc.

In the meantime, they are PULLING EXCUSES out of their rectums for Wenger.


"Oooooh, Wenger...Oooooh...Fabregas is out...Rosicsky is out"

Is that so Ronnie, you waste of space, I suppose Mascherano, Lucas, Babel must play for someone other than Liverpool.

Well......if Benitez and Liverpool cant win, they might as well keep on winning.

Ardent

spockety wrote: »

With Mascherano and Lucas away, who would you have replaced him with?

Plessis. The tea lady. Anyone. He was awful and needed replacing.

To answer your other question - I would love if Liverpool won the title this season but it simply won't happen.

I was the staunchest of Benitez fans up until the mid point of last season. His job security at the time was under scrutiny and rightfully so. This season he HAS TO deliver the title but there is no evidence yet again of the ingredients required to sustain a title race. Alan Hansen tonight re-iterated that view on MOTD, pointing out Liverpool's lack of quality on the wings as the achilles heel. I think excessive rotation will be another as the season unfolds.

The fact we have 6 points from our last 2 league games and we didn't concede four goals against Liege beggars belief quite simply. We'll see how long our luck lasts.

Hero Of College

LZ5by5 wrote: »

The only way pundits can make themselves feel big, even if they are ex players for the team that they are criticizing, is to be negative. Whelan and Haughton are the worst.

I will abduct the little Haughey that is Houghton, and I will put him in a room with high shelves and ask him to take things down off them. On his own, with no ladder.

And, when he has been reminded as to just how small and irrelevant he is, I will release back into the gen pop.

Should be the last we ever here from them.

No joke, if I saw either of them, I would roar them down in public, and if they got smart, smack them around a bit.

RTE suck for inviting these stooges in.

Handsome Bob

Hero Of College wrote: »

You have to love the stooges that work for RTE.

Spurs, the big threat, the swinging erect phallus of the non-top 4, the big cock that is going to rupture Liverpools cherry.

Beaten for the 2nd time in 2 games in 2 seasons. Signed a tonne of expensive talent- Bale, Bent, Bently, Modric. Must be £60m there.

Cant beat Sunderland at home. Liverpool beat them away. And then won again at home today, coming from behind to win in under 20 mins.

Can Liverpool get a word of praise? You joking me.

Fatso Whelan couldnt find a word. Passing hate and criticism off as constructive fact and opinion.

Oh, sure, its not Ramos fault Spurs cant buy a win. Its... Berbatovs.

Rafa, contending with the monumental ineptitude that is Rick Parry, turns 6 points out of 2 games, with half of his starting XI missing and his favoured signing thwarted.

But does he get a word of praise for it, from the living legend that is the corpulent Whelan?

Does he fukc.

In the meantime, they are PULLING EXCUSES out of their rectums for Wenger.


"Oooooh, Wenger...Oooooh...Fabregas is out...Rosicsky is out"

Is that so Ronnie, you waste of space, I suppose Mascherano, Lucas, Babel must play for someone other than Liverpool.

Well......if Benitez and Liverpool cant win, they might as well keep on winning.

It's the "in" thing to criticize Liverpool. Whelan. Haughton. Dunphy. Sky Sports Sunday Supplement- they all get in their ill-informed digs. Oooohhhhhh, "Rafa rests Torres too much" when most of the games Torres missed last season was when he was injured. Ooooohh, Rafa never "keeps the spine of a team". Yeah thats why Reina, Carra, Skrtel, Gerrard, Mascherano, and Torres played 90% of their games last season.:rolleyes: Pundits are sheep.

Hero Of College

Ardent wrote: »

Plessis. The tea lady. Anyone. He was awful and needed replacing.

O do put a sock in it. Plessis is a raw recruit, and Alonso did supply a ball for the winner.

Ardent wrote:

To answer your other question - I would love if Liverpool won the title this season but it simply won't happen

Great. Another clairvoyant.

Ardent wrote:

I was the staunchest of Benitez fans up until the mid point of last season

Fairweather joe.

Ardent wrote:

His job security at the time was under scrutiny and rightfully so.

No, it was not right to scrutinise the chap. He is working with incompetents.

Ardent wrote:

This season he HAS TO deliver the title but there is no evidence yet again of the ingredients required to sustain a title race.

Yeah he's only won his first 2 games in the absence of his best DM, Gerrards #2 and Babel. And without his preferred signing.

Ardent wrote:

Alan Hansen tonight re-iterated that view on MOTD, pointing out Liverpool's lack of quality on the wings as the achilles heel. I think excessive rotation will be another as the season unfolds.

Hansen said no such thing. The second part of that quote is pure suppositon. Alonso was in for Plessis today on account of how well Alonso played last week, and Skrtel was in for Hyypia.

Ardent wrote:

The fact we have 6 points from our last 2 league games and we didn't concede four goals against Liege beggars belief quite simply. We'll see how long our luck lasts.

Fukc off Ronnie.

Hero Of College

LZ5by5 wrote: »

It's the "in" thing to criticize Liverpool. Whelan. Haughton. Dunphy. Sky Sports Sunday Supplement- they all get in their ill-informed digs. Oooohhhhhh, "Rafa rests Torres too much" when most of the games Torres missed last season was when he was injured. Ooooohh, Rafa never "keeps the spine of a team". Yeah thats why Reina, Carra, Skrtel, Gerrard, Mascherano, and Torres played 90% of their games last season.:rolleyes: Pundits are sheep.

In a word, WORD.

Everton, Spurs, Villa....are all already a MILE off the pace.

Liverpool ARE TOP.

DeadSkin

I get a good giggle from pundits, example, today on todayfm Frank Stapleton was on and was asked about Rafa & Liverpool.
Frank says Rafa has spent X million[a fortune] and ok he's sold Y million, his balance is about £80m blah blah blah.
I look at that £80m and see in the past 12 months Torres/Keane/Mascherano/Skyrtle have signed for what, lets say £65m. These players are key to Liverpool's push towards the title. Add to that Rafa's hands are tied as regards what money is available to him.

Handsome Bob

Hero Of College wrote: »

In a word, WORD.

Everton, Spurs, Villa....are all already a MILE off the pace.

Liverpool ARE TOP.

Do you know what the worst thing is? There are plenty of Liverpool fans who buy into the garbage of Sky Sports Supplement, Haughton and the like.

Hero Of College

DeadSkin wrote: »

I get a good giggle from pundits, example, today on todayfm Frank Stapleton was on and was asked about Rafa & Liverpool.
Frank says Rafa has spent X million[a fortune] and ok he's sold Y million, his balance is about £80m blah blah blah.
I look at that £80m and see in the past 12 months Torres/Keane/Mascherano/Skyrtle have signed for what, lets say £65m. These players are key to Liverpool's push towards the title. Add to that Rafa's hands are tied as regards what money is available to him.

Well, Auld Stapler was never the brightest, was he:D:D

Rafa has brought in wicked talent, at a net price that is well below what might be expected for a team who, on their day, can, and will, beat anyone.

Most people forget how close Liverpool were season.

Nobody wants to think for themselves. They want it handed to them.

Hero Of College

LZ5by5 wrote: »

Do you know what the worst thing is? There are plenty of Liverpool fans who buy into the garbage of Sky Sports Supplement, Haughton and the like.

Like the man says, one sucker born every minute, and two to take him.:cool:

Handsome Bob

DeadSkin wrote: »

I get a good giggle from pundits, example, today on todayfm Frank Stapleton was on and was asked about Rafa & Liverpool.
Frank says Rafa has spent X million[a fortune] and ok he's sold Y million, his balance is about £80m blah blah blah.
I look at that £80m and see in the past 12 months Torres/Keane/Mascherano/Skyrtle have signed for what, lets say £65m. These players are key to Liverpool's push towards the title. Add to that Rafa's hands are tied as regards what money is available to him.

Rafa is the only manager in the Top 4 who has to sell in order to buy, and it just boils my blood to see pundits talking about the money Rafa has spent. It's laughable. Last season Rafa spent "£50m", but he recouped half of it. This season, jesus, he only bought Keane, and he had to sell a load of shams to afford him. It makes me sick that the media portray the Americans as backing Rafa when they do no more than Moore did.

Ardent

LZ5by5 wrote: »

It's the "in" thing to criticize Liverpool. Whelan. Haughton. Dunphy. Sky Sports Sunday Supplement- they all get in their ill-informed digs. Oooohhhhhh, "Rafa rests Torres too much" when most of the games Torres missed last season was when he was injured. Ooooohh, Rafa never "keeps the spine of a team". Yeah thats why Reina, Carra, Skrtel, Gerrard, Mascherano, and Torres played 90% of their games last season.:rolleyes: Pundits are sheep.

Rotating Rafa is not a myth and it's certainly not the "in-thing". Everyone from professional pundits to brickes on the building sites were talking about "Tinkerman" Benitez at the start of this year.

Benitez went through a phase last season of over-rotating his squad, including Torres. This phase saw Liverpool rack up an impressive amount of sequential draws in the league and find themselves almost bottom of their CL group. (It was a case of sh*te or bust then and that's when we started seeing more consistent line-ups.)

No smoke without fire etc...

Mr Alan

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
completely and utterly clueless

Tusky

Ardent is certainly a breath of fresh air.

Ardent

Hero Of College wrote: »

In a word, WORD.

Everton, Spurs, Villa....are all already a MILE off the pace.

Liverpool ARE TOP.

What the f*ck are you wittering on about now?

Let me see if I can paint the big picture for you here:

Premier League 101:

Q1) What is Liverpool FC's main ambition this season?

Q2) Regarding Q1, who are Liverpool's main rivals this season?

When you find out the correct answers to the above questions, come back to us and then we can a proper discussion about Liverpool's season-long prospects versus that of their rivals.

LuckyLloyd

Ardent wrote: »

Everyone from professional pundits to brickes on the building sites were talking about "Tinkerman" Benitez at the start of this year.

So what? Most professional pundits would be unemployable in other arenas and everyday football fans generally have an idiotic level one thought process on the game as a whole.

Handsome Bob

Mr Alan wrote: »

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
completely and utterly clueless

Are you referring to me Alan?

Ardent, Torres was rarely rotated last season when not injured. Excusing the home game against B'Ham, he was rested against P'Mouth due to previously playing two international games. The guy was tired and was duley rested.

And you have blatantly ignored my point of Liverpool's spine rarely changing for the most part last season. Reina. Carragher. Skrtel. Gerrard. Masherano. Torres. Basically played nearly every game when not injured.

Mr Alan

no no, i'm refering to Ardent.

Ardent

LZ5by5 wrote: »

And you have blatantly ignored my point of Liverpool's spine rarely changing for the most part last season. Reina. Carragher. Skrtel. Gerrard. Masherano. Torres. Basically played nearly every game when not injured.

Liverpool's spine has never been a matter of consternation.

Dirk Kuyt is a prime example of Liverpool's problems. Lovely guy and all that, would run through a brick wall for the team etc but is ultimately the calibre of player that holds back our play, regardless of what position Benitez he plays him in.

If Benitez were so inclined, he could drop Kuyt from the right side of midfield and play any one of Gerrard, Pennant, Benayoun - all of whom can do a better job than the hapless dutchman in that position.

And don't get me started on Babel, another mediocre Dutch player for wom we payed twice what he was really worth, and he doesn't often get a start.

I can see the reasons Benitez wasn't allowed to purchase players himself at Valencia - his record for LFC so far is very hit and miss. I know a couple of Dutch lads who to this day still chuckle over the amount LFC paid for Kuyt and Babel.

Anyway, it's almost 2 AM and I'm drunk now and it's time for bed - nice bicker..-ehm-debating with you lads - till the next poor performace!

Mr Alan

^^^^^^^^^^^
said it before, i'll say it again, unbelievably clueless.

I'd go so far as to say an embarrasment to Liverpool fans the world over tbh.

wcarey1975

Mr Alan wrote: »

^^^^^^^^^^^
said it before, i'll say it again, unbelievably clueless.

I'd go so far as to say an embarrasment to Liverpool fans the world over tbh.

+1

PHB

LZ5by5 wrote: »

Rafa is the only manager in the Top 4 who has to sell in order to buy, and it just boils my blood to see pundits talking about the money Rafa has spent. It's laughable. Last season Rafa spent "£50m", but he recouped half of it. This season, jesus, he only bought Keane, and he had to sell a load of shams to afford him. It makes me sick that the media portray the Americans as backing Rafa when they do no more than Moore did.

Whatever about the mount that Liverpool spend (and Rafa has spent as much as Fergie net spend since he got here, less than Chelsea, and Arsenal have spent about 1 pound net), have you noticed how United haven't spent anything this year? We have sold a couple of players though, and look desperate to shift more players especially off the wage bill to fund berbatov, as evidenced by selling a player who's played with us for 9 years to our arch-rivals.
And Arsenal have bought Nasri, but sold Hleb, so are pretty much in the exact same boat as Liverpool.

---

As for rotation,

Rafa does rotate more at the start of the season

Liverpool made an average of 3.68 changes per game, whereas United made 3.16. Not a huge difference. However a column graph pointed to the fact that United make few changes before March 1st (2.54), and a lot more after (4.64). Basically Fergie keeps a similar team (a lot of the changes involved keeping Scholes/Carrick/Hargreaves/Andersen happy) until the end of the season when players are more knackered, and there are vital Champions league games, when he freshens things up..

Benitez on the other hand was consistent: 3.72 before and 3.58 after. He started rotating in August and kept it up all season.

Rafa over-rotating is not a myth. Whether thats the cause of Liverpools failure is another question however.

copacetic

PHB wrote: »

Whatever about the mount that Liverpool spend (and Rafa has spent as much as Fergie net spend since he got here, less than Chelsea, and Arsenal have spent about 1 pound net), have you noticed how United haven't spent anything this year? We have sold a couple of players though, and look desperate to shift more players especially off the wage bill to fund berbatov, as evidenced by selling a player who's played with us for 9 years to our arch-rivals.
And Arsenal have bought Nasri, but sold Hleb, so are pretty much in the exact same boat as Liverpool.

---

As for rotation,

Rafa does rotate more at the start of the season


Rafa over-rotating is not a myth. Whether thats the cause of Liverpools failure is another question however.

His rotation policy may not be myth, the same policy as at utd and chelsea. Calling it 'over-rotation' is your opinion though. Not a fact.

All of a sudden 3.16 changes per game is ok, but 3.56 is over-rotation?
(using your figures, not idea if they are correct or not)

Handsome Bob

PHB wrote: »

Whatever about the mount that Liverpool spend (and Rafa has spent as much as Fergie net spend since he got here, less than Chelsea, and Arsenal have spent about 1 pound net), have you noticed how United haven't spent anything this year? We have sold a couple of players though, and look desperate to shift more players especially off the wage bill to fund berbatov, as evidenced by selling a player who's played with us for 9 years to our arch-rivals.
And Arsenal have bought Nasri, but sold Hleb, so are pretty much in the exact same boat as Liverpool.

Arsenal I will give you but not Man U. Look at the squad they have built over the years with hardly any significant players sold.

• Hargreaves-20m
• Carrick-18m
• Rooney-30m
• Tevez-30m
• Anderson/ Nani- 32m
• Ronaldo-12m
• Ferdinand-30m

And quite likely add Berbatov to that list. The only players Liverpool have over the 15m mark are Keane and Torres; one player wh is only here a year and the other here about a month.

PHB wrote: »

---

As for rotation,

Rafa does rotate more at the start of the season


Rafa over-rotating is not a myth. Whether thats the cause of Liverpools failure is another question however.

Does it say anything about who is actually rotated? If it did, you'd most likely see likes of LB, RB, RM, and LM being rotated. The likes of Aurelio/ Riise/ Arbeloa/ Pennant/ Benayoun/ Kewell etc etc. Now I'm not saying Rafa doesn't make the clangers like leaving Stevie or Torres out but the core part of the tem, the spine, remains in tact for the most part.

mike65

Ardent wrote: »

Anyway, it's almost 2 AM and I'm drunk

Quoted for truth. People really should learn to go to bed, not go online when pissed esp at 2 am.

Nothing good comes of it.

Mike

Hero Of College

LZ5by5 wrote: »

Rafa is the only manager in the Top 4 who has to sell in order to buy, and it just boils my blood to see pundits talking about the money Rafa has spent. It's laughable. Last season Rafa spent "£50m", but he recouped half of it. This season, jesus, he only bought Keane, and he had to sell a load of shams to afford him. It makes me sick that the media portray the Americans as backing Rafa when they do no more than Moore did.

Rafas the man. They know it. They know you could hand the guy a Honda Civic and get a Ferrari Enzo back. And they hate him for it.

Hero Of College

Ardent wrote: »

Rotating Rafa is not a myth and it's certainly not the "in-thing". Everyone from professional pundits to brickes on the building sites were talking about "Tinkerman" Benitez at the start of this year.

There's a difference???



????????

Ardent wrote:

Benitez went through a phase last season of over-rotating his squad, including Torres. This phase saw Liverpool rack up an impressive amount of sequential draws in the league and find themselves almost bottom of their CL group. (It was a case of sh*te or bust then and that's when we started seeing more consistent line-ups.)

An "impressive amount of sequential draws". Really??? All due to excessive rotation???

Hero Of College

Ardent wrote: »

Liverpool's spine has never been a matter of consternation.

Who are you? The Squad Physio?

Ardent wrote:

Dirk Kuyt is a prime example of Liverpool's problems. Lovely guy and all that, would run through a brick wall for the team etc but is ultimately the calibre of player that holds back our play, regardless of what position Benitez he plays him in.

Yeah, 3rd in the Prem and CL Finals in Dirks first season. Perhaps indicative of a bad influence on Dirks behalf. Inter Milan, Chelsea, Arsenal etc would all also love if Dirk weren't at Anfield. For different reasons to you, of course.

Quote=Ardent]If Benitez were so inclined, he could drop Kuyt from the right side of midfield and play any one of Gerrard, Pennant, Benayoun - all of whom can do a better job than the hapless dutchman in that position.[/Quote]

In case you missed it yesterday, Kuyt was in center of attack and the right side of the attack. Don't be allowing Setantas techno gizmos to tell you where he plays.

Ardent wrote:

And don't get me started on Babel, another mediocre Dutch player for wom we payed twice what he was really worth, and he doesn't often get a start.

Kid is 20. And had a better first season than Ronaldo. Way to keep it real.

Ardent wrote:

I can see the reasons Benitez wasn't allowed to purchase players himself at Valencia - his record for LFC so far is very hit and miss. I know a couple of Dutch lads who to this day still chuckle over the amount LFC paid for Kuyt and Babel.

Yeah. Who are they? Shhhhteeve McShlaren and who else?

Ardent wrote:

Anyway, it's almost 2 AM and I'm drunk now and it's time for bed - nice bicker..-ehm-debating with you lads - till the next poor performace!

Ahh. The kicker.

Boggles

Hero Of College wrote: »

Kid is 20. And had a better first season than Ronaldo. Way to keep it real.

I've seen this comparision bandied around a few times by Liverpool supporters and it always makes me chuckle.

Ronaldo was 18 when he joined United, Babel is 21 and will be 22 in a few of months, he is not a kid anymore.

Babel looks to be an above average player who yet has to fulfil any meaningful potential, he has never impressed me in any of the games I have seem him to near the extent that Ronaldo did when he was only 17.

I think you need to keep it real mate, get someone else to compare Babel to, it is not fair on the lad.

slingerz

Babel is beyond Poor.