Match Thread: Liverpool vs. Boro [All pre/during/post match discussion in here]

Mr Alan

Boggles wrote: »

I think you need to keep it real mate, get someone else to compare Babel to, it is not fair on the lad.

wat about Nani so?

Hero Of College

slingerz wrote: »

Babel is beyond Poor.

:rolleyes:

Boggles

Mr Alan wrote: »

wat about Nani so?

Like I said before, Nani has the attributes to become a top top player, this season is very big him.

Young player of the year minimum IMO, a different level again to Babel.

A fair comparison would probably be Richardson and Babel.

Hero Of College

Boggles wrote: »

Like I said before, Nani has the attributes to become a top top player, this season is very big him.

Young player of the year minimum IMO, a different level again to Babel.

A fair comparison would probably be Richardson and Babel.

This has to be a windup. Post reported.

Boggles

Hero Of College wrote: »

This has to be a windup. Post reported.

For what exactly? Have you nothing better to do than waste peoples time?

Richardson and Babel is a fair comparison, IMO.

ibh

Boggles wrote: »

For what exactly? Have you nothing better to do than waste peoples time?

Richardson and Babel is a fair comparison, IMO.

Possibly the most ridiculous thing you have ever posted here IMO....

How close to the Holland team do you think Richardson would get???

eZe^

Ardent wrote: »

I can see the reasons Benitez wasn't allowed to purchase players himself at Valencia.

Idiotic thing to say for two reasons;

1. In La Liga, transfers aren't the responsibility of the manager, its down to the president and sporting director.

2. Valencia of all places are the club where the board room poke their noses in places they shouldn't. I think all of you know how things work in Valencia. what the coach says, wants or needs is totally ignored and decisions are made by some fat guys in suits who barely even know what the offside rule is.


Edit- Babel will eventually become a fantastic winger, don't bother with the silly comments. In the Dutch league he looked absolutely spectacular, and I would have loved to have signed him. And don't bother bringing up people like Kuyt and Kezman as examples of players that can't cut it anywhere but in bad leagues, if you watched Babel you would have noticed he had that air about him. He'll eventually become a world class player.

Boggles

ibh wrote: »

Possibly the most ridiculous thing you have ever posted here IMO....

How close to the Holland team do you think Richardson would get???

How close to the England team would Babel get?

I'm basing my opinion on what I have actually seen, Richardson like Babel has/had potential but never realised at the top top level.

Babel from what I have seen of him has yet to impress and if I were to pick between the 2 now, I would have Kieran Richardson.

I don't rate Babel, I'm not alone, get over it.

ibh

Boggles wrote: »

How close to the England team would Babel get?

I'm basing my opinion on what I have actually seen, Richardson like Babel has/had potential but never realised at the top top level.

Babel from what I have seen of him has yet to impress and if I were to pick between the 2 now, I would have Kieran Richardson.

I don't rate Babel, I'm not alone, get over it.

You didn't answer my question about how close would Richardson get to a Dutch team that Babel has started featuring in.

You may not be alone in ur opinion on Babel, but comparing him to a guy at Sunderland with little or no International recognition is probably quite unique.

Dont worry, i'm over it...

LuckyLloyd

Boggles wrote: »

How close to the England team would Babel get?

I'm basing my opinion on what I have actually seen, Richardson like Babel has/had potential but never realised at the top top level.

Babel from what I have seen of him has yet to impress and if I were to pick between the 2 now, I would have Kieran Richardson.

I don't rate Babel, I'm not alone, get over it.

You're talking about a 21 and a 23 year old respectively. Six and four years off the average peak for their positions respectively. Jog on.

Tusky

I think some people forget how good Babel looked at times last season. Lets not forget, he only went 21 in December. He had limited opportunities but still scored 10 goals. I expect him to improve this year. Next season - 09/10, I think he will really shine. Hes big, strong, very very fast and has an absolutely fantastic shot. He will continue to get better for sure.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kL218iv6qC4

eZe^

Pity about his involvement with the worst hip hop songs of all time though. :P

Tusky

eZe^ wrote: »

Pity about his involvement with the worst hip hop songs of all time though. :P

I'm definitely not a fan of the song, but compared to some Dutch hip hop, its a masterpiece!

eZe^

Tusky wrote: »

I'm definitely not a fan of the song, but compared to some Dutch hip hop, its a masterpiece!

Oh don't worry, he made one with Royston Drenthe aswell, and that's as bad as ebola.

Hero Of College

eZe^ wrote: »

Pity about his involvement with the worst hip hop songs of all time though. :P

You have him and Barnes confused again!!!

leninbenjamin

Babel in time will be a good player, but he shouldn't be playing on the left. if you'll notice about that clip, nearly all his best work occurs in more central positions. he's a good finisher, great at getting on the end of things. but Liverpool already have more than enough players like this in Torres, Gerrard and to a lesser degree Kuyt and Keane.

Babel will never be creative enough to play effectively on the wing. if he stays there his contribution will remain relatively similar to what it is now. sporadic. he's not a long term solution to the lack of creativity within the side.

Tusky

leninbenjamin wrote: »

Babel in time will be a good player, but he shouldn't be playing on the left. if you'll notice about that clip, nearly all his best work occurs in more central positions. he's a good finisher, great at getting on the end of things. but Liverpool already have more than enough players like this in Torres, Gerrard and to a lesser degree Kuyt and Keane.

Babel will never be creative enough to play effectively on the wing. if he stays there his contribution will remain relatively similar to what it is now. sporadic. he's not a long term solution to the lack of creativity within the side.

Babels position for Ajax -

Babel

---

x

---

x

x

---

x

---

x

Babels position for Liverpool -

---

x

Babel

---

x

---

x

---

x

---

x

Not a massive difference really. Slightly deeper for Liverpool, thats about it.

Mr Alan

Boggles, you are fecking beyond hilarious.

Comparing Babel to Richardson is laughable.

Then in nearly the same breath to say that Nani has all the attributes to be a world class player but Babel doesnt shows just how blinkered you actually are.

The other day you also said that Nani is far superior to Silva.

All these things can lead me to only one conclusion-you have no idea wat you are talking about.

Hero Of College

Mr Alan wrote: »

Boggles, you are fecking beyond hilarious.

Comparing Babel to Richardson is laughable.

Then in nearly the same breath to say that Nani has all the attributes to be a world class player but Babel doesnt shows just how blinkered you actually are.

The other day you also said that Nani is far superior to Silva.

All these things can lead me to only one conclusion-you have no idea wat you are talking about.

I reported his posts,. The guy is a WUM.

copacetic

lads, just don't respond to the posts, simple.

Boggles

Mr Alan wrote: »

Comparing Babel to Richardson is laughable.

From what I have seen of Babel, I think that is the level he will reach. Richardson is an above average player. It's hardly laughable.

Mr Alan wrote: »

Then in nearly the same breath to say that Nani has all the attributes to be a world class player but Babel doesnt shows just how blinkered you actually are.

Nothing to do with being blinkered, I have seen both players, Nani has impressed me far more and IMO is a different level.

Mr Alan wrote: »

The other day you also said that Nani is far superior to Silva.

I stand by that, he will be. Time will answer that one.

Mr Alan wrote: »

All these things can lead me to only one conclusion-you have no idea wat you are talking about.

Well change my mind, what collection of performances from Babel have I missed that would suggest anything above the opinion I have of him?

Tusky

Nani

Price: £17m
07/08: 41 apperances, 4 goals
International: 16 apperances, 2 goals

Total: 57 apperances, 6 goals

Babel

Price: £11m
07/08: 49 apperances, 10 goals
International: 24 apperances, 5 goals

Total: 73 apperances, 15 goals

Both the same age. I'm not saying Babel is better, I'm just pointing out that your argument is flawed. Both players have a lot of potential.

TonyD79

The current chelsea manager has gone on record to say he believes Nani has the potential to be better than Ronaldo that was a year or so a go. His crossing for starters is way better than both Ronaldo & Babel in his first season. From what I saw of Silva for Spain he was average and both Giles & Dunphy slagged him off. Kuyt was signed for 16 million (??) as a "Dutch international "striker not a right sided overpriced headless chicken. Richardson is in the same class as Pennant expect he has an explosive shot on him from what I saw of Pennant he offered more interms of delivery than Babel.

wcarey1975

TonyD79 wrote: »

The current chelsea manager has gone on record to say he believes Nani has the potential to be better than Ronaldo that was a year or so a go. His crossing for starters is way better than both Ronaldo & Babel in his first season. From what I saw of Silva for Spain he was average and both Giles & Dunphy slagged him off. This tread is for Man United supporters so they can express their opinion..were not in China after all!! Kuyt was signed for 16 million (??) as a "Dutch international "striker not a right sided overpriced headless chicken. Richardson is in the same class as Pennant expect he has an explosive shot on him from what I saw of Pennant he offered more interms of delivery than Babel.

And Here I thought that this thread was about the discussion surrounding the LFC vs. Boro game that was on yesterday.

copacetic

I think he meant anyone can post their opinion on any thread if they like. My point above was if you think someone is just trying to rile you up just ignore them, don't take a hissy fit over it, either you are being a fool or giving them what they want.

As for Nani, he has looked rubbish so far doubt he will ever be as good as Ronaldo. Although he looks to have taken diving lessons from him.

wcarey1975

Yeah thought that just put the in the wrong place above. Yeah I agree but there are those that are provoking for responce and the only way is just to ignore them. You know who you are.

Boggles

Tusky wrote: »

Nani

Price: £17m
07/08: 41 apperances, 4 goals
International: 16 apperances, 2 goals

Total: 57 apperances, 6 goals

Babel

Price: £11m
07/08: 49 apperances, 10 goals
International: 24 apperances, 5 goals

Total: 73 apperances, 15 goals

Both the same age. I'm not saying Babel is better, I'm just pointing out that your argument is flawed. Both players have a lot of potential.

Too many different variables in your stats, a clearler and fairer inication would be jsut the league. I'm not basing my opinion of the 2 players just on stats, as I think Babels are pretty misleading.

Nani

League Appearences 26, Goals 3, Assists 6.

Babel

League Appearences 30, Goals 4, Assists 3.

wcarey1975

Boggles wrote: »

Too many different variables in your stats, a clearler and fairer inication would be jsut the league. I'm not basing my opinion of the 2 players just on stats, as I think Babels are pretty misleading.

Nani

League Appearences 26, Goals 3, Assists 6.

Babel

League Appearences 30, Goals 4, Assists 3.

Boggles there are stats to prove anything. Stats above are equally as valid as those you have posted. Both players played in the same competitions and both are equal at the current time. Only time will tell and hopefully both will progress and become world class stars for their respective clubs.

GuanYin

What has Nani to do with the Liverpool Boro game?


Boggles - stay on topic.

Karmafaerie

Ah Boggles you always cheer me up.
Thanks for that, I was depressed about work in the morning.

The Rooster

LZ5by5 wrote: »

Do you know what the worst thing is? There are plenty of Liverpool fans who buy into the garbage of Sky Sports Supplement, Haughton and the like.

Nearly choked on my cornflakes yesterday when the lads on Sky Sports Sundayu Supplement were slagging off Capello and one said (and the rest agreed):

"Steven Gerrard was sensational again for Liverpool on Saturday...."

mike65

He was - for 10 seconds. Its enough sometimes :pac:

Mike.

Dub13

I was at the game,and we got out of jail big time.Alonso was very bad I think 4 corners did not get past the first man.We need a big improvement for Wednesday night and again for Villa next week.

monkey9

Dub13 wrote: »

I was at the game,and we got out of jail big time.Alonso was very bad I think 4 corners did not get past the first man.We need a big improvement for Wednesday night and again for Villa next week.

The only decent corner was put in by Kuyt. I think that was the one that Skrtel got his head to and sent wide. Our corners are a disgrace, to be honest. One or two bad ones now again, fair enough. But it's just a regularity at this stage. Do the players and management not see this? We're missing out on a good source of goals there.
And yep, Alonso was awful on Saturday. His performances really need to improve. Hopefully they will with the return of gold medalist Mascherano!!

Handsome Bob

TonyD79 wrote: »

The current chelsea manager has gone on record to say he believes Nani has the potential to be better than Ronaldo that was a year or so a go. His crossing for starters is way better than both Ronaldo & Babel in his first season. From what I saw of Silva for Spain he was average and both Giles & Dunphy slagged him off. Kuyt was signed for 16 million (??) as a "Dutch international "striker not a right sided overpriced headless chicken. Richardson is in the same class as Pennant expect he has an explosive shot on him from what I saw of Pennant he offered more interms of delivery than Babel.

Kuyt 16 million? Try 9 million mate.:rolleyes::pac:

Anyway, I've been checking out some of the discussion boards and it seems that some fans are actually trying to make Keane one of the scapegoats for the performance. The only bit of encouragement I got from the performance WAS Keane and his seemingly improving partnership with Torres, plus he set up Gerrard for the goal.

Another case of our fans jumping the gun, buying into the media garbage, when there have been only 3 competitive games so far. First big test is Villa away next week, I'll reserve judgement until then.

mike65

LZ5by5 wrote: »

The only bit of encouragement I got from the performance WAS Keane and his seemingly improving partnership with Torres, plus he set up Gerrard for the goal.

Keane miscontrolled and the ball tumbled into space that Gerrard quickly filled. It was no assist!

Mike

monkey9

LZ5by5 wrote: »

LMFAO- Kuyt 16 million? Try 9 million mate.:rolleyes::pac:

Anyway, I've been checking out some of the discussion boards and it seems that some fans are actually trying to make Keane one of the scapegoats for the performance. The only bit of encouragement I got from the performance WAS Keane and his seemingly improving partnership with Torres, plus he set up Gerrard for the goal.

Another case of our fans jumping the gun, buying into the media garbage, when there have been only 3 competitive games so far. First big test is Villa away next week, I'll reserve judgement until then.

I actually think Keane got better as the match went on. I said earlier on that he seems to be trying too hard. It was like that early on in the 'boro game. But as the match went on, especially in the first half, he started to play with a more natural demeanour. He linked up well a couple of times with Torres. The partnership will take time, but i'm sure it will flourish.
They should spend some time together. You know, go out for dinner, take a walk down on the beach while throwing a stick for the dog to chase. Maybe go to a carnival and eat Candyfloss. I know Mr Al wouldn't be happy and would probably be spying on them, taking black and white photographs as evidence of Fernando's treachery. But surely it's worth it just to have a potent strike force??!!!

Handsome Bob

mike65 wrote: »

Keane miscontrolled and the ball tumbled into space that Gerrard quickly filled. It was no assist!

Mike

Ha ha okay, I'll give you that, I count it because Keane was my captain in the fantasy and it saved me from disaster.:pac:

But I do think it was Keane's most encouraging performance so far. As I said, his understanding with Torres had improved.

Dub13

mike65 wrote: »

Keane miscontrolled and the ball tumbled into space that Gerrard quickly filled. It was no assist!

Yes while technically it may be put down as an assist he know feck all about it so in my book its not an assist.

oobydooby

Only got to hear the match on BBC world service. Any links to the highlights? Thanks

Dues Bellator

Dub13 wrote: »

Yes while technically it may be put down as an assist he know feck all about it so in my book its not an assist.

LMFAO i love that straight forward stuff

wcarey1975

While I do agree with the consencus that Keane didn't have a textbook assist. The bottom line is if the ball didn't come off of him the way it did Gerrard wouldn't have had the shot and there would be no goal. Same can be applied to accidental goals of someones back or face. They all count in the record books it doesnt say accidental goal or accidental assist.

Waster

PHB wrote: »

Whatever about the mount that Liverpool spend (and Rafa has spent as much as Fergie net spend since he got here, less than Chelsea, and Arsenal have spent about 1 pound net), have you noticed how United haven't spent anything this year? We have sold a couple of players though, and look desperate to shift more players especially off the wage bill to fund berbatov, as evidenced by selling a player who's played with us for 9 years to our arch-rivals.
And Arsenal have bought Nasri, but sold Hleb, so are pretty much in the exact same boat as Liverpool.

---

As for rotation,

Rafa does rotate more at the start of the season


Rafa over-rotating is not a myth. Whether thats the cause of Liverpools failure is another question however.

Here's a good article on Rafa and rotation from last year. Lots of figures, stats and research.

Handsome Bob

Waster wrote: »

Here's a good article on Rafa and rotation from last year. Lots of figures, stats and research.

I always read his columns and he always comes across as very informed and makes his point brilliantly. Him and Brian Reade both do Liverpool a great justice in their columns.

copacetic

Waster wrote: »

Here's a good article on Rafa and rotation from last year. Lots of figures, stats and research.

thanks for that, appears to totally disprove the figures in phbs post, but no links in that post to check it.

Handsome Bob

copacetic wrote: »

thanks for that, appears to totally disprove the figures in phbs post, but no links in that post to check it.

I won't be surprised to hear "oh that's from the official wesite" and will ignore everything that Tomkins has said.:rolleyes:

raven136

quaresma to inter? seemingly his price has dropped so inter are happier to deal.

Downing would be my preferred option but a decent wide man will do me.
Does this lead to a move for Babel up top more?

Keane:why isnt the guy been given a chance?3 games in a new season in a new system.From what i say on saturday they are getting better game by game and i believe it will be a very fruitful partnership.

PHB

Waster wrote: »

Here's a good article on Rafa and rotation from last year. Lots of figures, stats and research.

LZ5by5 wrote: »

I always read his columns and he always comes across as very informed and makes his point brilliantly. Him and Brian Reade both do Liverpool a great justice in their columns.

copacetic wrote: »

thanks for that, appears to totally disprove the figures in phbs post, but no links in that post to check it.

LZ5by5 wrote: »

I won't be surprised to hear "oh that's from the official wesite" and will ignore everything that Tomkins has said.:rolleyes:

Well, to answer the question I'll drop some hints.

Here's some stuff said in the article,

So how many changes did Benitez make in 2006/07?

Athens looming.

By contrast, Ferguson rotated ... Solskjaer ... Larsson ...Smith

But here's the big finale

TOMKINS: ROTATION TALK IS A MYTH
Paul Tomkins 08 August 2007

As Tomkins himself says

So - will this article, and the facts within, stop the deluge of inaccuracies? I doubt it.

I guess he's right?

LuckyLloyd

copacetic wrote: »

thanks for that, appears to totally disprove the figures in phbs post, but no links in that post to check it.

It doesn't disprove his post as it concerns figures from season 2006 / 7.

EDIT: PHB himself got there before me.

copacetic

PHB wrote: »

Well, to answer the question I'll drop some hints.

Here's some stuff said in the article,







But here's the big finale



As Tomkins himself says


I guess he's right?

Ok assuming your figures are correct without a link, how about a response to my earlier reply?

i.e about how come liverpool making 3.66 changes a game is 'over-rotation' according to you, but utd making 3.16 is ok? What is your definition of over rotation?

Presumably everyone who changes less than 2.56 times a game is guilty of 'under-rotation' as they are 0.5 away from utds figure?