The main problem with Atlantis.

Mal-Adjusted

Now, dont gat me wrong, i love all things stargate (except that cartoon one) but i think their main problem is'nt with the stories or arcs, but with the constant dropping of characters.
In season two, we dropped Ford (Fair enough, it's his own fault) and introduced Ronin. now, he's cool, but obviously just trying to be Teal'c. it also made carson a regular, but he practically was one anyway.
Then in the ass-end of Season three, we kill off Becket.
In season four we see the end of Wier, for no reason other than to bring in Carter. (At the start of S1, Tori Higginson signed a six year contract). it also brought in Keller, from the last ep of S3, and, in the last few eps, had carson back.
Now, in season five, we loose carter, and bring in Woolsey. WTF? we also have Keller made a regular! once again WTF?
Sg-1 went 5 years witouth making any cast changes, swapped Daniel for Jonus when shanks went all west-end, then in season 7 things were back to normal.

What do you all think?
,

cyberwit

Could not a agree with you more. Stargate SG-1 they had the same people for the first five years which ment that we explored the charaters as much as planets eg the Relationship between Carter and O'Neil.

Dont get me wrong i have watched SG-1 since the very beginning as well as Atlantis but the constant changes in characters detracted from the show perhaps furthermore by season five of SG-1 a hole mythology had developed around the show but not enough of the wraight has been explored in atlantis.

Overheal

actually if you pay attention a couple sg-1 characters have been there since the go of atlantis. well mckay obviously, but Major Lorne appeared in at least one sg-1 episode, with the Unas Mine.

DingChavez

The problem with that is none of the SG-1 characters were bad like Wier or Ford. They took way too long getting rid of Wier.

J-blk

Part of the premise of Stargate Universe does make it sound like it could end up being a revolving door of cast members...

senordingdong

J-blk wrote: »

Part of the premise of Stargate Universe does make it sound like it could end up being a revolving door of cast members...

But we already have that with Atlantis.

So long as Sci Fi channel have a hand in the making of a Stargate show, no original cast member will be safe.

Gareth-W-A

senordingdong wrote: »

But we already have that with Atlantis.

So long as Sci Fi channel have a hand in the making of a Stargate show, no original cast member will be safe.

Well, Sci Fi have expressidly stated that it will be an ALL NEW cast in universe, but as i stated in the other main atlantis thread, i think that a full cut-off of universe from pegasus and earth would alienate universe in a way that some fans may not appreciate. I know i enjoyed seeing sg1 characters filter in and out of atlantis.
Gets me all Nostalgic.

krpc

senordingdong wrote: »

But we already have that with Atlantis.

So long as Sci Fi channel have a hand in the making of a Stargate show, no original cast member will be safe.

A pity they didn't threaten Ben Browder with that! :cool:

Gareth-W-A

i-bloodhound wrote: »

A pity they didn't threaten Ben Browder with that! :cool:

Yea, never really grew on me...
Tried to be O'Neill in a stupid obnoxious way that made me mad.

alastair_doom

J-blk wrote: »

Part of the premise of Stargate Universe does make it sound like it could end up being a revolving door of cast members...

I like this idea. I enjoyed the recent ep of Atlantis with the all new all girl team, purely because when they were put in peril, there was an actual inkling that they might get killed.

More exciting episodes all round might be a good trade off for (some) character development. Never really felt there was much character development in SG1 anyway. Stuff like the relationship between Carter and O'Neil was only ever mentioned in about 5 episodes, and never even really directly mentioned.

Gareth-W-A

alastair_doom wrote: »

More exciting episodes all round might be a good trade off for (some) character development. Never really felt there was much character development in SG1 anyway. Stuff like the relationship between Carter and O'Neil was only ever mentioned in about 5 episodes, and never even really directly mentioned.

I'm not so sure about that. I don't want to spoil anything so dont read this unless youve seen episode 6 of season 5

the episode 'the shrine' shows how episodes without any action can still show different interactions between characters i.e. keller and mckay

I also agree with the connotation that O'Neill and Carters relationship was never developed, but only because that would be heading towards disaster within the team.
I disagree with the way you've stated there was not much character development during sg1.
I'm sure there'll be a lot of people who will disagree with you on that one mate.

krpc

alastair_doom wrote: »

I like this idea. I enjoyed the recent ep of Atlantis with the all new all girl team, purely because when they were put in peril, there was an actual inkling that they might get killed.

I'm wondering if your intentions for enjoying that episode were all that honourable :pac: I do agree that it was good to see some fresh faces and it was interesting to see an all-female team.

I loved the exchange when Shepherd was curious about why it was an all-female team and received the response: "I was asked to put together the best team".

Unfortunately, attractive women et al

(including Nicole deBoer [Ezri Dax from DS9)

, I thought the episode stunk and turned it off before the end.

alastair_doom wrote: »

More exciting episodes all round might be a good trade off for (some) character development. Never really felt there was much character development in SG1 anyway. Stuff like the relationship between Carter and O'Neil was only ever mentioned in about 5 episodes, and never even really directly mentioned.

:eek: For shame I think how understated it was... kinda said it all.

Gareth-W-A

i-bloodhound wrote: »

I thought the episode stunk and turned it off before the end.

It wasn't great, but who knows how many more episodes we'll have left with beckett.

krpc

Gareth-W-A wrote: »

It wasn't great, but who knows how many more episodes we'll have left with beckett.

True. Funnily enough, I thought the recent episodes of Atlantis were quite good and it was beginning to appeal to me a little more than usual, but that recent episode .. gah! Back to the drawing border me thinks.

Gareth-W-A

i-bloodhound wrote: »

True. Funnily enough, I thought the recent episodes of Atlantis were quite good and it was beginning to appeal to me a little more than usual, but that recent episode .. gah! Back to the drawing border me thinks.

I would agree, but that episode was essentially the movie "the descent" with a hint of stargate. I am not impressed. They only used like 12 actors for that episode anyway.

krpc

Since this thread concerns opinions on the main problem with Atlantis, I'm hating on the fact that, other than super-Michael, the team on Atlantis have managed to dispatch the core of the Wraith threat; a feat that not even the Lanteans/Ancients could accomplish, even with all their technological advancement. I would have much preferred it if the Wraith were given the credit and screen time that they deserved as a pure embodiment of evil. After the three part Siege episodes, it was downhill from there and ultimately I never really felt that Atlantis was under too of a threat. The replicators were thwarted relatively easy too. Gone are the days when the viewer genuinely felt grave concern for the safety of their beloved characters The same goes for the Ori in SG-1. Two similar enemies that have plagued their respective galaxies for so long and within a relatively short period of time they're defeated. :mad:

krpc

Gareth-W-A wrote: »

I would agree, but that episode was essentially the movie "the descent" with a hint of stargate. I am not impressed. They only used like 12 actors for that episode anyway.

Cast cuts, eh?

Gareth-W-A

i-bloodhound wrote: »

Since this thread concerns opinions on the main problem with Atlantis, I'm hating on the fact that, other than super-Michael, the team on Atlantis have managed to dispatch the core of the Wraith threat; a feat that not even the Lanteans/Ancients could accomplish, even with all their technological advancement. I would have much preferred it if the Wraith were given the credit and screen time that they deserved as a pure embodiment of evil. After the three part Siege episodes, it was downhill from there and ultimately I never really felt that Atlantis was under too of a threat. The replicators were thwarted relatively easy too. Gone are the days when the viewer genuinely felt grave concern for the safety of their beloved characters The same goes for the Ori in SG-1. Two similar enemies that have plagued their respective galaxies for so long and within a relatively short period of time they're defeated. :mad:

I completely agree!
How long did it take to take down Apophis for good?
And Anubis for instance?
Baal?
These days they just set em up, and knock em down!
It's downright laziness!!!

Mal-Adjusted

In response to the above comment.

Apophis: main villan for season one, two, three (a little bump with Sokar), and four.:)
Anubis: main villan for season five, six, seven, and eight. (though in 5 & 8 it's mostly guys working for him):D
Ba'al: been in the background for season five to Continuum:cool:
Replicators: introduces in season three, defeated in season eight (and briefley in AOT):eek:

But this is all beside the point.
Wraith: introduced in season one, pretty much deflated by mid season three. still a bit of a threat.:(
Pegasus Replicators: introduced in season three, defeated midway in season four!

Rsaeire

It's almost as if the writers are struggling to find new ways in which to either dispatch the enemies or create new storylines. For instance, how many times have we seen an SG1 storyline in Atlantis? I understand there will always be episode we don't like or episodes that are boring, but for a writer actually ripping themselves off, that is a new low.

Gareth-W-A

Mal-Adjusted wrote: »

In response to the above comment.

Apophis: main villan for season one, two, three (a little bump with Sokar), and four.:)
Anubis: main villan for season five, six, seven, and eight. (though in 5 & 8 it's mostly guys working for him):D
Ba'al: been in the background for season five to Continuum:cool:
Replicators: introduces in season three, defeated in season eight (and briefley in AOT):eek:

But this is all beside the point.
Wraith: introduced in season one, pretty much deflated by mid season three. still a bit of a threat.:(
Pegasus Replicators: introduced in season three, defeated midway in season four!

Thanks for completely proving my point!
They just don't make bad guys like they used to...

Gareth-W-A

Rsaeire wrote: »

It's almost as if the writers are struggling to find new ways in which to either dispatch the enemies or create new storylines. For instance, how many times have we seen an SG1 storyline in Atlantis? I understand there will always be episode we don't like or episodes that are boring, but for a writer actually ripping themselves off, that is a new low.

To be fair, that is a noticable trait in many atlantis episodes, but i think the differences in how sg1 and sheppard's team would react to similar situations. I think this is what keeps the shows seperate.

krpc

Mal-Adjusted wrote: »

In response to the above comment.

Apophis: main villan for season one, two, three (a little bump with Sokar), and four.:)
Anubis: main villan for season five, six, seven, and eight. (though in 5 & 8 it's mostly guys working for him):D
Ba'al: been in the background for season five to Continuum:cool:
Replicators: introduces in season three, defeated in season eight (and briefley in AOT):eek:

But this is all beside the point.
Wraith: introduced in season one, pretty much deflated by mid season three. still a bit of a threat.:(
Pegasus Replicators: introduced in season three, defeated midway in season four!

Ba'al was more of an irritation, like a bad rash, than a threat! I must admit though, from all the villains in SG-1 and SGA, I certainly feel Anubis was the greatest threat. I really do wish they had done more with the Wraith as they had a lot a lot of potential.

Gareth-W-A

i-bloodhound wrote: »

Ba'al was more of an irritation, like a bad rash, than a threat! I must admit though, from all the villains in SG-1 and SGA, I certainly feel Anubis was the greatest threat. I really do wish they had done more with the Wraith as they had a lot a lot of potential.

Yea, i must agree on the subject of Baal. There was a lot of "Baal is tearing the system lords a new one" talk, but a lot less action. That kind of happened towards the end of season 4 of SGA with Michael terrorising pegasus.

Is it me, or does the sole goal of Atlantis seem to be pissing off 90% of the pegasus galaxy as opposed to sg1's actual goals of obtaining new technology. How many actual allies(advanced enough to help) have they made?

krpc

Gareth-W-A wrote: »

Yea, i must agree on the subject of Baal. There was a lot of "Baal is tearing the system lords a new one" talk, but a lot less action. That kind of happened towards the end of season 4 of SGA with Michael terrorising pegasus.

Is it me, or does the sole goal of Atlantis seem to be pissing off 90% of the pegasus galaxy as opposed to sg1's actual goals of obtaining new technology. How many actual allies(advanced enough to help) have they made?

None, that I recall.

Since we're on the topic of other races ... the main problem with Atlantis, again, is the Genii. "Kolya!" :mad:

Gareth-W-A

i-bloodhound wrote: »

None, that I recall.

Since we're on the topic of other races ... the main problem with Atlantis, again, is the Genii. "Kolya!" :mad:

At least they had Colm Meaney...that's something.

Mal-Adjusted

who remembers back in season 1 whethe wraith needed a whole clip in them to be taken down? now it seems that a few shots to the chest will do.
They used to be a fairley scary menace (i certainley would'nt like to meet one down a back alley:P)

Also, for SG-1 to spend over a year searching for this marvelous lost city chock-a-block full of ancient weapons and technology, we do see very little exploring of the city

One new dynamic i noticed is with a less military structure of the staff, they can explore a lot more with the relationships...if that's your thing...

ixoy

Mal-Adjusted wrote: »

One new dynamic i noticed is with a less military structure of the staff, they can explore a lot more with the relationships...if that's your thing...

Which makes sense as it's civilian run and it's good to have a different dynamic. I imagine "Universe" will have the most military bent of all the shows and the hard decisions that may need to be made (in keeping with their notion of emulating aspects of BSG).

Agreed on the above - Atlantis didn't have a definable threat after S1. We had no sense of fear or overwhelming odds and it's something "Stargate: Universe" may not have either if they're jumping from point to point each week.

Should Atlantis mirror any earth mythologies when they weren't seeded from Earth cultures? Should Universe do the same? I would like to see some more unique culture that's original - something the Genii failed to do, with their Cold War feel. It's a difficult task but surely there's the spark of creativity still - it is what the writers are paid for.

Gareth-W-A

Mal-Adjusted wrote: »

Also, for SG-1 to spend over a year searching for this marvelous lost city chock-a-block full of ancient weapons and technology, we do see very little exploring of the city

I agree with that connotation.
There's very little new technology IN atlantis.
Jumpers and drones were indroduced in sg1, ascention devices were mentioned in sg1(anubis)
I really think that the buildup of this Lost City full 'o weapons in sg1 kind of bottomed out.
Earth must be pissed...

Ziggy_1972

I think it's distracting to see so many Trek actors. When Woolsey teleported in wearing a uniform that looked quite Trek, I half-expected him to say "Please state the nature of the medical emergency".

ixoy

Ziggy_1972 wrote: »

I think it's distracting to see so many Trek actors. When Woolsey teleported in wearing a uniform that looked quite Trek, I half-expected him to say "Please state the nature of the medical emergency".

Trek is far from the worst - SG-1 employed the two main leads in 'Farscape' and about half the cast of 'Firefly' have appeared regularly in the franchise. Trek gets off lightly enough, although at least one actor from each of the modern Trek franchises has appeared at some point in the SG franchise!