PUAs in Dublin

consultech

Puddleduck wrote: »

Why dont you just approach women and talk rather than keeping a diary of conquests and failures.

'coz men like makin the durty with hot wimminz. Hot wimminz be bitchez. Bitchez not so fun to talk to.

Puddleduck

To be fair, I would be a fairly shy person myself, but at the same time I know it takes a little effort on my part in order to get anywhere socially with people. It would be different if this was a seminar or a book about how to build self confidence rather than being called Pick Up Artist. If were being honest here Id say many of the people attending are attending for just that reason, to pick up girls. That is what they are marketing, not self confidence etc.

I find it sad that its come to this for people, be it men and women or whatever, to interact with each other.

ShooterSF

Puddleduck wrote: »

Why dont you just approach women and talk rather than keeping a diary of conquests and failures.

Tbh I find the whole idea creepy, and thats not because Im jealous that men are now apparently moving into the whole wimminz manipulating the men crap. Thats just because people shouldnt need a manual or seminar on how to approach women, if anything they should work on improving their self confidence in approaching people in general.

I don't want to look like you're being ganged up on here. Im not even going to get defensive, I do have a question for you that was already asked but I'd love an answer,

if anything they should work on improving their self confidence in approaching people in general.

How do you suggest one does this? And how does it differ to how PUA teach it?

sillysasauge

People who are negative against this are not replying to actual posts defending this, and just basing their opinion on their idea of what this pua stuff is about.

I would not base my opinion on spomething if i did not know the whole facts. Read one of my posts or the one free-man wrote a few pages back and ask any questions if you want. Don;t just skim the surface and decide that this stuff is creepy

Puddleduck

ShooterSF wrote: »

I don't want to look like you're being ganged up on here. Im not even going to get defensive, I do have a question for you that was already asked but I'd love an answer,



How do you suggest one does this? And how does it differ to how PUA teach it?

Well instead of wasting money on these things (or are they free?) push yourself to achieve these things. Ive never attended any of these seminars or anything since its aimed at men, but I know that I may feel uncomfortable talking to someone, maybe I screw up etc. Ill come away and think to myself, ok maybe I could have done that better with x y or z. I dont think men need to be told this by someone else. It seems like common sense.

JC 2K3

Puddleduck wrote: »

It would be different if this was a seminar or a book about how to build self confidence rather than being called Pick Up Artist. If were being honest here Id say many of the people attending are attending for just that reason, to pick up girls. That is what they are marketing, not self confidence etc.

"Pick Up Artist" isn't the greatest term in the world I'll agree, and those who actually call themselves Pick Up Artists and take it to extremes are a bit sad, but I don't see how a seminar on how to pick up girls should be viewed as less valid than a seminar on self confidence. Is it only OK for a guy to pick up a girl if he's learned how to do so indirectly?

tribulus

On a related note, how do you feel about the oodles of books aimed at women and relationships with men or their self-confidence? E.g "He's just not that in you", "Feel the fear and do it anyway", "Women who love too much" etc.

Are they not sad too? Should what they teach not be common sense?

JC 2K3

Puddleduck wrote: »

Well instead of wasting money on these things (or are they free?) push yourself to achieve these things. Ive never attended any of these seminars or anything since its aimed at men, but I know that I may feel uncomfortable talking to someone, maybe I screw up etc. Ill come away and think to myself, ok maybe I could have done that better with x y or z. I dont think men need to be told this by someone else. It seems like common sense.

Well firstly, approaching a woman with sexual intentions is an entirely different thing to approaching a stranger in a non-sexual context. As a woman, you've likely not often been in the situation of approaching a guy you're attracted to with the intention of making a move on them.

Also, the "sure isn't that just common sense" attitude is exactly what I'm talking about when I say people can often be ignorant of the situations of people who are shy/socially awkward. Now you say you're shy, but seem to cope all right socially with a bit of effort. Fair play to you, that's great, but what about people who can't do this on their own? You can't just dismiss a load of people just because you can cope without external advice.

Puddleduck

Men will always try to pick up women in whatever way they can, some use chat up lines, some are manipulative etc. I dont understand what there is to 'learn' if you understand me. It shouldnt be hard. It should be going up to a person to talk to them. I think these kind of seminars play on mens insecurites. Making them think that if they follow all of these instructions they will be able to socalise better. When in reality its that they pushed themselves into doing something they arent comfortable with and each time they did it it got easier.

Also I think all these self help books aimed at women and all these self help articles are a load of sh!te. At the end of the day you dont need a book to tell you something you already know.

ShooterSF

Puddleduck wrote: »

Well instead of wasting money on these things (or are they free?) push yourself to achieve these things. Ive never attended any of these seminars or anything since its aimed at men, but I know that I may feel uncomfortable talking to someone, maybe I screw up etc. Ill come away and think to myself, ok maybe I could have done that better with x y or z. I dont think men need to be told this by someone else. It seems like common sense.

Alot of the info is freely discussed in forums. Yes there are seminars and books as well. I accept that you could learn this from your mistakes as you explained. However where would the human race be if we all learned from our own mistakes and never shared information. How many of us would be still inventing the wheel?

Pick up artist is a horrible term. If it was a company it would be rebranded by now
Another problem it solves is there are socially inept people who don't ever realise they're making the same mistakes over and over and then there's guys who could learn from their mistakes but give up due to the numerous failures before hand.

The whole goal at the start is to help people build their confidence in meeting people and starting conversations. All it does is helps guy's avoid some cul-de-sacs in their learning.

Puddleduck

JC 2K3 wrote: »

Well firstly, approaching a woman with sexual intentions is an entirely different thing to approaching a stranger in a non-sexual context. As a woman, you've likely not often been in the situation of approaching a guy you're attracted to with the intention of making a move on them.

Also, the "sure isn't that just common sense" attitude is exactly what I'm talking about when I say people can often be ignorant of the situations of people who are shy/socially awkward. Now you say you're shy, but seem to cope all right socially with a bit of effort. Fair play to you, that's great, but what about people who can't do this on their own? You can't just dismiss a load of people just because you can cope without external advice.

Seriously, just because Im a woman dosent mean I have an easier time of it then men. It can be just as hard. I have approached men I was interested in. Ive been shot down plenty of times, but Ive succeeded plenty of times too. Possibly because I didnt let being shot down effect me and I kept trying.

The people you mention that cant do it on there own, tell me, when they approach a woman is someone holding there hand? Whispering things to say in their ear? No. They do do it on there own. Also lots of people pick up external advice, but plenty of people learn what works through trial and error

Heisenberg.

This post has been deleted.

Agamemnon

The Scientist wrote: »

What man approaches strange women without the intention of eventually having sex with them?

Perverts do it, the dirty feckers.

ShooterSF

Puddleduck wrote: »

Men will always try to pick up women in whatever way they can, some use chat up lines, some are manipulative etc. I dont understand what there is to 'learn' if you understand me. It shouldnt be hard. It should be going up to a person to talk to them. I think these kind of seminars play on mens insecurites. Making them think that if they follow all of these instructions they will be able to socalise better. When in reality its that they pushed themselves into doing something they arent comfortable with and each time they did it it got easier.

Also I think all these self help books aimed at women and all these self help articles are a load of sh!te. At the end of the day you dont need a book to tell you something you already know.

It shouldn't be but realistically to some it is. It's not as easy as going up and chatting to someone. Do you find yourself attracted to every guy that talks to you? I doubt it. Let's give you an example, Say someguy comes over compliments your shoes offers to buy you drinks and starts singing your praises and following you everywhere. Now I'd consider that to be creepy cause you and I both know he's not doing this to make friends he has other plans. I can guarantee you he is the bane of most women on a night out. And, you know what? The sad thing is he thinks this is what a woman wants. Now whats wrong with teaching a guy that he can have fun tease and even disagree with a woman in a club and he as as good a chance if not better of getting with her?
Who looses there? I can bet a woman would prefer to meet the second guy and the sad thing is most guys are that second guy but they hide it under the misconception that the pedestal is the best and only path. In the end he'll have more fun, you'd have more fun. Win-Win?

sillysasauge

Puddleduck wrote: »

Seriously, just because Im a woman dosent mean I have an easier time of it then men. It can be just as hard. I have approached men I was interested in. Ive been shot down plenty of times, but Ive succeeded plenty of times too. Possibly because I didnt let being shot down effect me and I kept trying.

The people you mention that cant do it on there own, tell me, when they approach a woman is someone holding there hand? Whispering things to say in their ear? No. They do do it on there own. Also lots of people pick up external advice, but plenty of people learn what works through trial and error

Well the point of this stuff is to learn through trial and error while mixing it with external advise based on the psychology of how attraction works to give you an edge.

People teaching this advise that 10% of you're time should be reading up on this material and 90% going out there and talking to people and learning from you're failed experiences.

JC 2K3

Puddleduck wrote: »

Seriously, just because Im a woman dosent mean I have an easier time of it then men. It can be just as hard. I have approached men I was interested in. Ive been shot down plenty of times, but Ive succeeded plenty of times too. Possibly because I didnt let being shot down effect me and I kept trying.

The people you mention that cant do it on there own, tell me, when they approach a woman is someone holding there hand? Whispering things to say in their ear? No. They do do it on there own. Also lots of people pick up external advice, but plenty of people learn what works through trial and error

Some things work for some people, other things work for other people. Plenty of people learn on their own, but plenty of people just can't.

I can't understand your problem with what is, in it's most basic and common form, reading a book or some websites in order to gain an insight into how attraction works and develop a more confident mentality.

Wibbs

Puddleduck wrote: »

Men will always try to pick up women in whatever way they can, some use chat up lines, some are manipulative etc. I dont understand what there is to 'learn' if you understand me. It shouldnt be hard. It should be going up to a person to talk to them. I think these kind of seminars play on mens insecurites. Making them think that if they follow all of these instructions they will be able to socalise better. When in reality its that they pushed themselves into doing something they arent comfortable with and each time they did it it got easier.

Also I think all these self help books aimed at women and all these self help articles are a load of sh!te. At the end of the day you dont need a book to tell you something you already know.

Ah but you're falling into the trap of expecting others to perceive the world as you perceive it. For a start you approach men. Few women do. There's a difference in perception and action right there. Yes you have found your path without external help, because you have the inbuilt tools to do so. Many don't. It's analogous to telling a fat person "eat less and move more". Completely correct and easy if you're naturally skinny, but simplistic and hard to follow if you're not or don't have the tools to follow this simple advice. So people look to self help books as a way to find these tools. Actually most of them preach much the same things you preach. The things you know to be true.

While the self help genre has come in for a lot of stick, mostly down to the get rich quick brigade and the over americanisation(with a small a) of the whole deal, as a genre it can trace itself back a long way through many ages and from the pens of many great thinkers. One could argue that many philosophers and their works fall into this category. It's just now we see quick fix merchants plugging the obvious, to the oblivious wrapped up in pseudo BS, so many of us reject the concept in it's entirety.

Puddleduck

So essentailly your paying someone to tell you to go out and talk to people. Somehow I dont understand how the people that go to these seminars dont see it for what it is.

ShooterSF, the vast majority of women wouldnt have anything to do with this guy that came up spouting crap and trying to get into your knickers, but somewhere along the line that approach has worked for this bloke, hense he keeps trying it.
You are telling me that this seminar teaches men to be themselves when approaching a woman. Why does that have to be taught? Surely guys know this. This PUA is telling guys what to do, do this this and this and you will recieve this. Its such crap imo. Someone mentioned they also preach that sometimes you will fail, naturally, any type of approach to picking someone up will fail at some point, that dosent mean that the PUA is more successful than any other type of approach. I think its terrible that the guys that are shy are being exploited for something, if they are honest, know themselves.

dSTAR

What I find ironic is the fact that for YEARS women have been bombarded with sh!t like ..

100 Dating Tips for Women

Do's and Don'ts When it Come to Love

How to Land Your Dream Guy

Meet Your Perfect Match

and so on.

But as soon guys are given the very same type of information albeit packaged in a different way it becomes creepy / sleazy and even threatening to some.

FYI I am not some young, horny PUA looking to sleep with as many girls as I can. I developed my inner game long before all this stuff became popularized. Once you get your head around the fact that dating, courtship or flirting follows a set of rules then you begin to see why so many dudes fail so dismally even if they happen to be good looking and friendly.

sillysasauge

Puddleduck wrote: »

So essentailly your paying someone to tell you to go out and talk to people. Somehow I dont understand how the people that go to these seminars dont see it for what it is.

ShooterSF, the vast majority of women wouldnt have anything to do with this guy that came up spouting crap and trying to get into your knickers, but somewhere along the line that approach has worked for this bloke, hense he keeps trying it.
You are telling me that this seminar teaches men to be themselves when approaching a woman. Why does that have to be taught? Surely guys know this. This PUA is telling guys what to do, do this this and this and you will recieve this. Its such crap imo. Someone mentioned they also preach that sometimes you will fail, naturally, any type of approach to picking someone up will fail at some point, that dosent mean that the PUA is more successful than any other type of approach. I think its terrible that the guys that are shy are being exploited for something, if they are honest, know themselves.

You are not reading my posts! Just out of interest do you think that the advise that the guy on this video is giving would not be useful for some people?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2DQMRUnAE4

Puddleduck

Wibbs wrote: »

Ah but you're falling into the trap of expecting others to perceive the world as you perceive it. For a start you approach men. Few women do. There's a difference in perception and action right there. Yes you have found your path without external help, because you have the inbuilt tools to do so. Many don't. It's analogous to telling a fat person "eat less and move more". Completely correct and easy if you're naturally skinny, but simplistic and hard to follow if you're not or don't have the tools to follow this simple advice. So people look to self help books as a way to find these tools. Actually most of them preach much the same things you preach. The things you know to be true.

While the self help genre has come in for a lot of stick, mostly down to the get rich quick brigade and the over americanisation(with a small a) of the whole deal, as a genre it can trace itself back a long way through many ages and from the pens of many great thinkers. One could argue that many philosophers and their works fall into this category. It's just now we see quick fix merchants plugging the obvious, to the oblivious wrapped up in pseudo BS, so many of us reject the concept in it's entirety.

Perhaps your right. But like someone who is overweight regardless of all the crap going on around them, they know themselves that they should eat less and work out more, and that its hard. If you want to talk to/pick up someone you have to approach them, and naturally enough you arent going to stand there with your mouth open saying nothing. You will try to talk. According to the other posters here these men that attend PUA dont have constructive external advice to picking up women. How? Its everywhere, magazines, books, tv, even when you are out. To me its like someone watching you burn your hand on the stove and needing to be told its hot.

JC 2K3

Puddleduck wrote: »

So essentailly your paying someone to tell you to go out and talk to people. Somehow I dont understand how the people that go to these seminars dont see it for what it is.

Stop thinking of PUA in terms of these seminars. The seminars are a small part of it. For the most part, it's about men teaching other men and sharing information and experiences online, and it's entirely free.

I really can't understand how you can't grasp the concept. A guy wants to be able to approach women and not trembling with apprehension, stumbling with his words, not knowing what to say or do and generally giving off an air of weirdness and desperation. Or maybe a guy is very confident and great at approaching strangers and having a conversation, but just doesn't know how to make a move on a woman he likes or show that he's attracted to her. The solutions to such problems aren't easy, social dynamics are complicated and states of mind are hard to change and require time and effort. Can it be done on one's own? For some people, maybe. Others may need a starting point, some ideas on how to get started, and others may need a great deal more understanding of what to do.

JC 2K3

Puddleduck wrote: »

According to the other posters here these men that attend PUA dont have constructive external advice to picking up women. How? Its everywhere, magazines, books, tv, even when you are out

I think there may be a misunderstanding here. The advice in magazines, books, TV, online etc. is what we're talking about when we say "PUA", not really the seminars....

scanlas

I think it's a shame that when someone first hears about the whole "pua" thing they associate it with the stuff mystery does, ie dressing ridiculous and using all these convoluted memorized lines, the majority of puas don't do all that rubbish. Most companies these days teach you to work on your core confidence and general social skills as a foundation. They teach you how to flirt effectively,make the woman think of you in a sexual way, build a connection and improvise fun and interesting conversation that primarily amuses yourself. You don't have to memorize loads of lines.

ShooterSF

Puddleduck wrote: »

ShooterSF, the vast majority of women wouldnt have anything to do with this guy that came up spouting crap and trying to get into your knickers, but somewhere along the line that approach has worked for this bloke, hense he keeps trying it.

Ok maybe it worked for him one night and now he does it for that reason but surely being able to show him that he doesnt have to do it is only a good thing. Maybe he's a really sound chap but doesnt realise he can be himself and still have success.

You are telling me that this seminar teaches men to be themselves when approaching a woman. Why does that have to be taught? Surely guys know this. This PUA is telling guys what to do, do this this and this and you will recieve this. Its such crap imo.

I envy your natural ability to realise that being your best self works. However not everyone is the same and a lot of people think being themselves means being who they pretend to be when they meet someone new, kind careful not to obvious in their intentions etc, not the person they are around their mates.

Someone mentioned they also preach that sometimes you will fail, naturally, any type of approach to picking someone up will fail at some point, that dosent mean that the PUA is more successful than any other type of approach. I think its terrible that the guys that are shy are being exploited for something, if they are honest, know themselves.

No one is forced to go to these seminars though. See fastseduction.net A free community based forum sharing advice. Is that acceptable? The people that go to the seminars generally seem glad they did. Where's the harm in it? Say I wanted to learn guitar, I go to a class I get taught guitar. The teacher tells me I'm still gonna feck up songs especially early on. I improve Im happy to pay to learn. Sure Jimmy Hendrix taught himself but does that mean I should too?

TBH I think you are one of the lucky ones who has no fears over initial rejection and just get on with life and fair play to you for it. However I don't think you realise how many people cant get into that frame of mind without some help. I don't see the harm.

Puddleduck

I dont mind people attending seminars or getting advice on how to be more self confident, but thats not what the core message is to these things. Its called Pick Up Artist. It tells you how to pick up women, same with this seduction site. To me its the same as a bunch of girls telling each other to 'Almost get your tits out, men love that'.

Fair enough, people need to be told what to do, seems mindless to me. Gutiar lessons are a hell of a lot different, to me this is teaching men how to ultimatly, get a shag, be it they then enter into a realationship or whatnot.

I think I hate society.

scanlas

What's wrong with teaching men how to get a shag?

You're taught how to be an attractive man that a woman would want to sleep with, it's mutually beneficial for the man and the woman. There's no tricking involved. You appraoch woman, she becomes attracted because you are attractive, you move things forward towards sex, you don't lie about your intentions. what's wrong about that?

Puddleduck

scanlas wrote: »

What's wrong with teaching men how to get a shag?

You're taught how to be an attractive man that a woman would want to sleep with, it's mutually beneficial for the man and the woman. There's no tricking involved. You appraoch woman, she becomes attracted because you are attractive, you move things forward towards sex, you don't lie about your intentions. what's wrong about that?

Well I dont think there are seminars for women on how to shag men. I may be wrong though. A lot of these self help crap aimed at women is how to get a fufilling realationship etc. Also, a woman is either attracted to you for you or she isnt, doing PUA or talking about it till your blue in the face dosent change that.

Wibbs

Long winded me ahoy. TL;DR;)

Puddleduck wrote: »

ShooterSF, the vast majority of women wouldnt have anything to do with this guy that came up spouting crap and trying to get into your knickers, but somewhere along the line that approach has worked for this bloke, hense he keeps trying it.
You are telling me that this seminar teaches men to be themselves when approaching a woman. Why does that have to be taught? Surely guys know this.

Nope. A disturbingly high amount have no clue and don't have the natural ability to learn. Make no mistake it is an ability or talent. I can walk up to anyone and talk away. Man or woman. If I'm meeting mates in a pub and they're late, 99 times outa 100 I'll be busy chatting away to someone or other when my mates arrive. Of my mates I would be one of maybe three who would be similar and I would be best at it. I'm at the other extreme of the spectrum to the wallflower man or woman in the corner. I've always been able to do it. It's a natural ability I'm lucky to have.

There are many many natural abilities I do not have, that others may take for granted. In those cases, I would have to work on them and need instruction on them. Even then I may not be good at it. Did you naturally figure out how to deal with social situations? No, you learned as you went along. You learned from failures and you learned from successes, but you had the personal tools to do so.

Now given as I said, I can walk up to a complete stranger and engage them, I still have the insight and understanding that others simply can't. I've done this in the past when I didn't cop, with mates that couldn't do what I do. I've said, "look it's easy just walk up to her and say hello. Here I'll show you how easy it is". It wasn't for them. As I say analogous to eat less move more to a fat bloke. I'm skinny, so I can say to a fat bloke, "ah sure I eat bugger all and walk a lot" while he sits there feeling bad that he can't and thinking "wibbs is a twat".

This PUA is telling guys what to do, do this this and this and you will recieve this. Its such crap imo. Someone mentioned they also preach that sometimes you will fail, naturally, any type of approach to picking someone up will fail at some point, that dosent mean that the PUA is more successful than any other type of approach. I think its terrible that the guys that are shy are being exploited for something, if they are honest, know themselves.

Oh yes you will get some exploitation. Nature of the beast. the emotionally insecure or socially weak are primed for it in a lot of ways.

If you want to talk to/pick up someone you have to approach them,

Difficult for many as I said.

and naturally enough you arent going to stand there with your mouth open saying nothing. You will try to talk.

Again if they even get that far what the hell do they say next is in their heads. Being nervous as hell won't help so maybe they need a crutch to get the ball rolling. Think of it as an uplift bra for conversation.

According to the other posters here these men that attend PUA dont have constructive external advice to picking up women. How? Its everywhere, magazines, books, tv, even when you are out. To me its like someone watching you burn your hand on the stove and needing to be told its hot.

I would not agree with it being everywhere or at least good advice.

TV and movies and magazines etc do not tell men how to act around women. Well they do, but more often than not in a totally unrealistic or bad way.

"The nice dork always gets the girl" in the movies. Nope, more often he doesn't or doesn't get as good a woman as he could and just settles for what he can get and feels blessed to have her. Recipe for disaster there. Mainly because he's not the best man he should be so women see that right off the bat and he gets knocked back, or he actually gets one, then down the line she feels the "spark" is gone and he wonders why. So she loses out too.

"Just be yourself". Utterly pointless if "yourself" comes across as a bumbling eejit with little to offer, even if they're not like that. Again both he and the women he could have in his life lose out.

"Just wait and fate will intervene" Complete claptrap, but big with holllywood. You need to kick fate up the arse if you want results.

A lot of why this stuff is popular and taken as read is because so many buy into it and think that's their only option.

So where does a man go to try and find out about this stuff? Women mates? They're usually the worst at tellling men how to behave ironically enough. They'll tell him to be himself and a nice guy and some lucky women will want him. Of course she won't, but shes trying to be a decent human being to the guy. Half the time women don't even know themselves or can't express what they want in a way that's understandable to them or men or they use different definitions. All women want is a nice guy. The problem is what they define as nice is not what nice guys who arent getting female attention define as nice.

Other men? Well if the other guy can naturally do it, then he'll fall into the same trap that you have(and I used to), by telling him it's easy, just do it or somesuch vague advice. Pointless. Or the other men have no clue and he's back to square one.

So the guy either bumbles along not fulfilling his own potential and get lucky or he doesn't and is at home lonely and frustrated, fiddling with himself every saturday night at 35.

All human interactions have basic patterns. Including love. there are studies about this stuff. The PUA lot are currently running a huge worldwide study on this. And they have come to many conclusions. Some a surprise to me and some not. I know when I've gone out with the purpose of getting a woman I would be similar in actions to a lot of what they say and I'm no "pickup artist"(BS artist yes;):D). Learning at least some of this stuff wll accentuate and increase a guys potential. the most important one IMHO is that women are people too. theres loads of them and if you don't gel with one nor she with you well then you meet the next one and the next one until you find one you do(and you meet some great people along the way). Its all about increasing your potential in life and love and being the better you for yourself and the world.

Women know this even in a basic obvious way when they go out. They know that wearing certain clothing will accentuate and attract more men, make them stand out among their peers and give them self confidence. It gives them the best chance of "pulling" and or receiving social acceptance form their peers. How many women go on the pull in trackies and no make up with their roots showing? Only the most gorgeous woman could get away with that, yet she could still be eclipsed in a pub environment by a plainer woman dolled up. You could argue the same for this male self improvement lark. Unless the guy is brad pitt, he better have his social interaction the best it can be. Even brad pitt if he comes off like a complete dork will strike out.

Fair enough, people need to be told what to do, seems mindless to me. Gutiar lessons are a hell of a lot different, to me this is teaching men how to ultimatly, get a shag, be it they then enter into a realationship or whatnot.

I think I hate society.

Nothing wrong with looking for sex. Whether t be for one night or with a view to having it in a good healthy long termer. It is all about the reproduction after all. It's dressed up in fancy clothes, but thats it. Otherwise it's a friendship. If it wasn't well then when a woman breaks up with a guy, why does she stop sleeping with him?

My 2cents anyway(more like a fiver but still...).

ShooterSF

Puddleduck wrote: »

I think I hate society.

I don't think you do. Guys take guitar lessons cause they can't play and they think it'd be fun. They learn how to have better success with women cause they think women and sex are fun and they're not very good at getting them.
Society frowns on this cause sex is supposed to be part of love when two people have "natural chemistry" blah blah crap.

I'll give this one last go, ignore teh Pick up artist tag on it. It's catchy and yes it get's guys interested cause the sad truth is we value sex quite highly. But a pick up artist and a non pick up artist's goals and belifs have the same wide range.

Lets say 80% of average guys want random frequent sex with different people. 20% prefer the idea of settling with one person and living out a happy life together. Some will have success.
Now take a group of Pick up artists and you'll find the same percentage. You can be a PUA and pick up the woman of your dreams and live a happy adultry free relationship. This is what most seem to miss. Pick up artist does not mean 100s of women a year with no strings attached unless that is your core goal. It doesn't change a guys goal. It doesnt say I don't care if you want to meet someone nice and develop a relationship you get out there and shag all assunder(sp?)

Are we getting anywhere here?