PUAs in Dublin

Wibbs

Yes but if they're doing it and getting results, then what of it? If it works(and I can see why a lot of it would) then I don't see the issue really.

ShooterSF has an interesting take on it re the salesman lark.

NickNolte

Wibbs wrote: »

Yes but if they're doing it and getting results, then what of it? If it works(and I can see why a lot of it would) then I don't see the issue really.

I'd be more inclined to advise that they build up their own natural inner confidence outside of the dating/courting scene before approaching girls, pretending to be someone they're not. But that's just me.

banshee_bones

ok but how do you tell if a guy is genuinely trying with genuine interest or is a PUA..

as in what would be the dead giveaways..... coz i kinda have an image of a "sleazeball" in my head !




*(sorry im thinking about a scenario that occured with me and a friend a few months ago in a venue in Dublin, at the time they seemed like normal/nice/sound enough blokes , but now im starting to wonder!!!!)

Wibbs

NickNolte wrote: »

I'd be more inclined to advise that they build up their own natural inner confidence outside of the dating/courting scene before approaching girls, pretending to be someone they're not. But that's just me.

Well if they're gobsheens at even talking to women and this guff at least gets them that far and they get used to knockbacks and maybe even success, as sooner or later even the biggest dork gets lucky, well then that'll give them confidence. Success breeds success. A person gets confident at something by doing, failing, enjoying and getting better at it. That would be the case for anything, never mind pulling women.

As for pretending. We all pretend on a daily basis. We all put our best mask out there one way or another(unless there's a mental issue), so what? I would say possibly the very worst advice people give when faced with someone with any social problem, is "just be yourself". It's up there with telling someone with clinical depression to "pull yourself together/cop on/get over it". It may be well meaning, but let's face it if "just being yourself" worked well the world would be full to the brim of happy well adjusted secure individuals and it's anything but.

Building a well rounded personality is left too much to chance and luck. It's like building a better body in the gym. It requires awareness of the goal, an honest appraisal of your weaknesses (we all have them), work, guidance, the right tools and perseverance. Some get there through pure dumb luck(rare enough), some are lucky to have the instinctive tools and many more end up just covering up the cracks by external means. If this(maybe better aimed at building the inner man) is one of the tools that some require then I say play on. At this stage it probably has more real world application and reporting than many counseling therapies. Doesn't mean it's better, but it would be silly to ignore it.

Wibbs

banshee_bones wrote: »

ok but how do you tell if a guy is genuinely trying with genuine interest or is a PUA..

You could say that about all approaches by blokes on the town. They may have genuine interest, or they may be out for some legover action. The approach may be different that's all. From what I've read(admittedly little enough, others may disagree), a lot of the stuff is what a secure man would do anyway. Minus the cheeeeeese.

banshee_bones

banshee_bones wrote: »

OK have to say after 14 pages I am still none the wiser.


Are these "PUA's" simply looking to use easy opening lines to get a womans attention and hold it long enough to get enough drink in to them with the hope of it ending in a one night stand?

or

are these PUA's simply guys with low self esteem/confidence who find it hard to approach women in bars clubs and or groups of women?

Both.

There's one more though. People who use learned techniques to have decent conversations with women which in the majority of cases lead to either more dates or sex that night.

banshee_bones

banshee_bones wrote: »

ok but how do you tell if a guy is genuinely trying with genuine interest or is a PUA..

as in what would be the dead giveaways..... coz i kinda have an image of a "sleazeball" in my head !




*(sorry im thinking about a scenario that occured with me and a friend a few months ago in a venue in Dublin, at the time they seemed like normal/nice/sound enough blokes , but now im starting to wonder!!!!)

There's so many different "schools" when it comes to this that its not really possible to tell easily. The cheesy chat up lines would be a firm indicator of most of the more obvious PUA setups.

consultech

Deleted User wrote: »

There's so many different "schools" when it comes to this that its not really possible to tell easily. The cheesy chat up lines would be a firm indicator of most of the more obvious PUA setups.

That's the thing though; It's not "cheesy" chat up lines. It's actually (at times) pretty sophisticated psychological strategy/programming. Stuff varying from appealing to the female sense of natural pre-selection as "Alpha-male", to building comfort and applying touch at the right time etc (called "Kino", as in Kinesthetic touch).

banshee_bones

feckin hell! whats a girl to do!!! :eek:

Wibbs

Say yes.

ShooterSF

banshee_bones wrote: »

ok but how do you tell if a guy is genuinely trying with genuine interest or is a PUA..

as in what would be the dead giveaways..... coz i kinda have an image of a "sleazeball" in my head !




*(sorry im thinking about a scenario that occured with me and a friend a few months ago in a venue in Dublin, at the time they seemed like normal/nice/sound enough blokes , but now im starting to wonder!!!!)

I think youre making a mistake many women and some men (even those that take it up) here and that's the distinction between Pick up artist (I agree it's a horrible term) and "player".
A PUA as such is usually interested to the same level as a normal bloke, i.e some just want sex and others want more, they just give themselves a better chance of success I guess.
Not all Pick up artists' goals are to use woman and toss them aside. Unfortunately those that do are probably quite good at it. But then there are plenty of sleazy guys with the naturally ability that PUA's study.

banshee_bones wrote: »

feckin hell! whats a girl to do!!! :eek:

Read "The Rules" I guess

Clarehobo

consultech wrote: »

Now if only I were a respected PUA authority - or even a practising PUA for that matter - would quoting me as a basis for "scene" opinion be quasi-relevant.

consultech wrote: »

That's the thing though; It's not "cheesy" chat up lines. It's actually (at times) pretty sophisticated psychological strategy/programming. Stuff varying from appealing to the female sense of natural pre-selection as "Alpha-male", to building comfort and applying touch at the right time etc (called "Kino", as in Kinesthetic touch).

Can I ask why you actually "know" so much about this PUA stuff then if you aren't an "authority" or a "practising PUA"?


@banshee_bones: Just don't hook up outside of Coppers at ten to two in the morning!;)
Honestly though, talk to the guy- if he is just out for a sh*g, you'll know soon enough, the rest is up to you...

Wibbs

Clarehobo wrote: »

Honestly though, talk to the guy- if he is just out for a sh*g, you'll know soon enough, the rest is up to you...

And this is how some women get into trouble.:D How many women out there, reckoned they thought he was after something more only to discover the truth down the line?

Clarehobo

Wibbs wrote: »

And this is how some women get into trouble.:D How many women out there, reckoned they thought he was after something more only to discover the truth down the line?

Lol - Maybe it was lost in translation! I meant if he's out for a sh*g and she's up for it go for it, otherwise kick him to the kerb.

On a totally different vein - That'd be an interesting poll: how many people met their spouse/partner outside of Coppers after being kicked out;)

consultech

Clarehobo wrote: »

Can I ask why you actually "know" so much about this PUA stuff then if you aren't an "authority" or a "practising PUA"?

It's all in Neil Strauss' book.

Aside from that, I've already said in this thread that I have studied and practiced a bit in the past, to quite a degree of success. I am a looker though, so it could all be a load of shoite. Who knows...

banshee_bones

Wibbs wrote: »

Say yes.

mmmmmm...... il keep that in mind!!!

consultech

consultech wrote: »

That's the thing though; It's not "cheesy" chat up lines. It's actually (at times) pretty sophisticated psychological strategy/programming. Stuff varying from appealing to the female sense of natural pre-selection as "Alpha-male", to building comfort and applying touch at the right time etc (called "Kino", as in Kinesthetic touch).

Yes, I know. But the thing is that when a person says PUA they could be talking about material from Mystery, or Tucker, or Ross Jeffries or any number of different "Seduction" schemes.

I know guys who only use material from David DeAngelo, and I know others that only use things they've gotten from Seduction Newsgroups. I only use the material I leaned from Ross Jeffries and Dave Reiker. The thing is that what I use is completely different to that of DeAngelo.

And I know what you're talking about with regards to Alpha-Male, and Kino. I tried it, and it didn't suit me. The cheesy chat lines are often a sign of someone beginning to use this kind of stuff, mainly to build some levels of confidence... Being rejected and not being bothered is part of the learning process.

For those who want more info on what he's talking about, have a look at http://www.fastseduction.com/

Wibbs

consultech wrote: »

I am a looker though, so it could all be a load of shoite. Who knows...

now there's a secure man.

Clarehobo

We're all lookers when there's a few pints in;)

Each to their own - if it works for you and you're happy with that then go for it!

I think the problem is that some people do use it in a cynical way or the exposure people have to it is like I had this evening- I googled it and read a few of the articles: one of them was giving out about 'nice' guys and how you should try your best not to give a woman what she asks for. e.g. If she says you don't call enough, don't give in or she'll think you're 'nice' and subconciously start to go off you because you're a pushover.
If it gets to a stage where a guy isn't calling me as much as he was previously, I tell him as much and if things don't improve I get the hell out of there because I presume he has lost interest in me and doesn't want anything to come of it. I don't even entertain the idea that he could be a PUA, following some sort of rules!

For something casual, PUA stuff is probably fine but for a relationship, I wouldn't go applying what I have read so far!

banshee_bones

has nobody realised yet that these books in question, the PUA books and "the rules" are all written by americans for americans?

They simply do not work over here!

It might add some spice to a dying or boring relationship.,...

JC 2K3

banshee_bones wrote: »

ok but how do you tell if a guy is genuinely trying with genuine interest or is a PUA..

Depends on what you mean by "genuine interest" and "PUA".

I don't know why you should really care though. If you're in a club and a random guy approaches you, the chances are he's looking for sex, or at the very least a kiss or phone number. Guys don't usually approach random girls simply because they want some friendly conversation. What difference does it make if some of them have read some self help advice?

Borneo Fnctn

The whole thing is pretty greasy if you ask me.

banshee_bones

banshee_bones wrote: »

has nobody realised yet that these books in question, the PUA books and "the rules" are all written by americans for americans?

They simply do not work over here!

Funnily enough I thought the same. I was wrong. It does work considering most Irish women want to be american...

banshee_bones

JC 2K3 wrote: »

Depends on what you mean by "genuine interest" and "PUA".

I don't know why you should really care though. If you're in a club and a random guy approaches you, the chances are he's looking for sex, or at the very least a kiss or phone number. Guys don't usually approach random girls simply because they want some friendly conversation. What difference does it make if some of them have read some self help advice?

I have no problem at all with lads talking to me or getting any self help advice! Im just trying to understand the basis of this "PUA" thing....

banshee_bones

Deleted User wrote: »

Funnily enough I thought the same. I was wrong. It does work considering most Irish women want to be american...

Dont tar us all with the same brush!

Wibbs

Funny I would agree that it may work better in the states for a few reasons(IMHO of course). For a start the dating angle over there is quite competitive. I found there was more bluster and alpha male stuff going on, though much less of an undercurrent of potential violence compared to here. I noticed American women generally more open to being approached as part of the night. More open as to why they were there kinda thing. Actually I could see why this stuff would fit in more in more macho cultures, though I'm not sure how well it would work in Italy or Spain as examples. The men there are forward enough IME anyway. I've done well enough in all those places by being "Irish" funny enough. Quieter and just up for the craic and not trying to hard or something. In the US the accent defo helps though.

I'm not. I said "most" Irish women, not all Irish women...

banshee_bones

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm not. I said "most" Irish women, not all Irish women...

sorry my bad!:o

sillysasauge

banshee_bones wrote: »

has nobody realised yet that these books in question, the PUA books and "the rules" are all written by americans for americans?

They simply do not work over here!

That's not true

There is a big "natural game" movement mainly in the Uk, which breaks down the characteristics and actions of a "natural" who is good at getting women.

I do agree that a lot of the American stuff and routine stuff can be a bit weird. But there is a lot of healthy advise out there that is more concentrated on making yourself more attractive as a person and improving your social skills than trying to "trick" a girl into bed.

Girls get all this kind of advise in magazines like cosmopolitan and vogue, men are just catching up imo.