Aston Villa V liverpool [All Pre/during/post match discussion here]

ibh

Mr Alan wrote: »

was Keane not playing out wide in a 4-2-3-1? A role he has played numerous times? a role that Trap thinks is his best (albeit centrally, but the way Liverpool play it, the 3 interchange)? I fail to see the issue here.
simple fact is that this is Villa fans game of the season, a chance to prove that they are the "real deal" and show that Rafa is a nonce who has a cheek to try and buy their best or second best player, a player that still wanted the move but the clubs were anable to agree a fee.

.

I think the problem was that Keane looked much more effective when he was in that central position rather than out wide.
Whenever he was out wide he just looked like he was putting in a shift, doing hard work but not looking dangerous.
I wasn't convinced about Keane when we signed him (i've been to a lot of Ireland games ) but i think if he gets some time in that central role he will do well for us because he is an effective link player.

PHB

Mr Alan wrote: »

ok then PHB, even with us not having a "system" and missing our two best players, Villa still couldnt beat us or even dominate us. that shows the difference in class between the teams, which is still massive imo.

if Liverpool keep ticking along without properly settling into a system as we havent thus far, we will still finish ahead of Villa. If we click and start playing well, sky's the limit.

No doubt. No doubt about that at all. However, I've yet to see how its going to work, and it took Benetiz 6 months last season to figure out the best system, by which time the league was over. Thats the very reason why Villa were even close to you, MON already knows what he wants to do. Benetiz seems confused, with the signing of Keane make less and less sense. Either way, pointless debates which will be born out in the next few months

gixerfixer

Mr Alan wrote: »

was Keane not playing out wide in a 4-2-3-1? A role he has played numerous times? a role that Trap thinks is his best (albeit centrally, but the way Liverpool play it, the 3 interchange)? I fail to see the issue here.

simple fact is that this is Villa fans game of the season, a chance to prove that they are the "real deal" and show that Rafa is a nonce who has a cheek to try and buy their best or second best player, a player that still wanted the move but the clubs were anable to agree a fee.

We went into it after a 120min game during the week, they went into it rested up after resting some players during their midweek game.

we went into it with our best player missing, and lost our next best player within 20 mins. they were full strenght.

we created the best chances with good chances falling to Kuyt,Alonso,Ngog and Keane.

Neither side was particularly decent in attack, both sides were good in defence.

Now was the time for Villa to do us, and even despite all of the above, they were anable to. read into that watever you want-i know wat it spells out for me though, we are still on a very different level to Aston Villa.

Agreed.The one thing i took out of the game yesterday is not how bad Liverpool are at present on the eye but just how poor Villa are performance wise. I mean it's not to much to say this was the biggest game for MON since he took over at Villa ( a chance to show just how far he could take the club) but what did we get from the Villa yesterday? Was the Liverpool performance any worse than the Villas? I dont think they played better..the papers this morning say both teams where equally as bad....and yet Villa fans are coming on here and slagging Liverpool off for our performance.You just couldnt make it up. Lets get this straight because i am having a hard time understanding this. We played 120 minutes againest a very strong side (physically speaking) during the week,we where without our two best players for most of the game yesterday,we are joint top of the league (without playing out of first gear yet),we have a manager who is an idiot according to many knowledgeable fans,the club is run by two clowns and is falling apart,we have a defender named Carragher who is now slow and old,we have no width,we cant string two passes together, blah blah blah,and yet Aston Villa still couldnt score a single goal againest us in 90 minutes of play in a game you would imagine Villa fans and Mon would have loved to win . I mean am i missing the bit where you stuck 4 past Reina yesterday and you are looking like genuine title contenders?

Boggles

Mr Alan wrote: »

ok then PHB, even with us not having a "system" and missing our two best players, Villa still couldnt beat us or even dominate us. that shows the difference in class between the teams, which is still massive imo.

There was no appartent difference in class, both teams were distincly average. Rafa again parked the bus, he is a negative manager and has created a team and a "style" that is horrendous to watch.

Mr Alan wrote: »

if Liverpool keep ticking along without properly settling into a system as we havent thus far, we will still finish ahead of Villa. If we click and start playing well, sky's the limit.

If Liverpool keep ticking away in the same vain they started in Rafa will be gone by Christmas and I don't think the majority of Scouse supporters would be too disappointed.

Last year he had no plan B, this year it looks like he has no plan A.

ibh

Boggles wrote: »

There was no appartent difference in class, both teams were distincly average. Rafa again parked the bus, he is a negative manager and has created a team and a "style" that is horrendous to watch.



If Liverpool keep ticking away in the same vain they started in Rafa will be gone by Christmas and I don't think the majority of Scouse supporters would not be too disappointed.

Last year he had no plan B, this year it looks like he has no plan A.

Get a grip man, he didn't park the bus.. Liverpool have a very good defence complimented by the excellent Mascher as a defensive mid.
I'm not saying it was a great performance but lets be honest it doesn't mean there is no difference in quality between the 2 teams.

Did Newcastle become as good as ManUtd cause they got a deserved draw against utd. Same as what Villa got yesterday, a deserved draw.

BTW if liverpool keep ticking away like this and are joint top with Chelsea at Xmas, i don't think Rafa will be sacked...

gixerfixer

Boggles wrote: »

There was no appartent difference in class, both teams were distincly average. Rafa again parked the bus, he is a negative manager and has created a team and a "style" that is horrendous to watch.



If Liverpool keep ticking away in the same vain they started in Rafa will be gone by Christmas and I don't think the majority of Scouse supporters would be too disappointed.

Last year he had no plan B, this year it looks like he has no plan A.

Last season we where one dodgy left backs own goal away from another champions league final...if thats a manager without a clue that means all the teams in Europe who finished outside the Semi's of the Champions league and all the teams who finished below Liverpool last year in the league must'nt have any plans either? Im sorry i dont buy that for a minute. Oh and if liverpool keep ticking away in the same vein we will be joint top at Xmas.:)

Doh. Beat me to it IBH.

Gelio

podge018 wrote: »

A shot on goal may go a foot wide, but that's only a matter of milimetres on a players boot. I'd much rather my players shot a fraction wide with the keeper beaten than lame efforts that Stevie Wonder would save like Alonso's shot on target from 55 yards.

But hey it always has some hope if you put it on target 0:18

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c85Fi6Wfe_Y

Boggles

gixerfixer wrote: »

Oh and if liverpool keep ticking away in the same vein we will be joint top at Xmas.:)

Doh. Beat me to it IBH.

Thats right, if ye keep playing the way ye are ye will be top by Christmas alright! And Keane still won't be panicing about getting his first goal! :rolleyes:

As I said why was Babel not deployed into the healm yesterday?

gixerfixer

Boggles wrote: »

Thats right, if ye keep playing the way ye are ye will be top by Christmas alright! And Keane still won't be panicing about getting his first goal! :rolleyes:

As I said why was Babel not deployed into the healm yesterday?

Who knows. Why is Rooney played out of position for Utd. Managers do strange things all the time.

Boggles

gixerfixer wrote: »

Why is Rooney played out of position for Utd.

To win things.

monkey9

So much bullsh!t in one place!!!

Liverpool and Villa fans are gonna be laying into each other anyway because of the events of the summer, it became a grudge fixture more than this fixture has ever been and isn't exactly conducive to honest and balanced posts.
Obviously, we're also going to get the Utd fans wading in, slagging off Liverpool because we're cr*p, horrible to watch, gonna be nowhere come May, Rafa's clueless. etc etc and etc with a few blah blah blahs and an exclamation mark in a cheap dig under the guise of entitled 'opinion.' All of a sudden, people are connoisseurs of the beautiful game and are aghast at the evil Liverpool's attempts to bludgeon it to submission. We all know of course that Ferguson had Utd playing like Brazil in his first four years at Utd while winning all those trophies which had Utd fans appreciating their manager and in no way wanting him to leave.
Villa are a decent side who have spent more than anyone this summer. A point at Villa Park is no way a bad result and could prove even better over the coming months. Let's see how Arsenal, Chelsea and Utd get on at that ground.
As a Liverpool fan, i accept we're playing sh!te, but we're still picking up results which is the main thing at the moment as we try to settle into the season. I'm sick and tired of being out of the title race before the radio stations have even begun the deluge of Christmas classics. The same may still happen this season, i know. But at the moment, we're picking up points, joint top of the table, back in the Champions League all while underperforming.
The international break has come at a perfect time for us unlike last year when we were riding high and playing well. Our next game is Utd at Anfield which could even be the perfect catalyst to kickstart the season, performance wise. But that fixture is for another thread.
I've seen Liverpool play brilliantly under Rafa, play some really great stuff, but yeah, we've played ****e as well, like all teams.
I know we can play better and we will. The season is only three games old for f*ck sake

podge018

"deployed into the healm" wtf.


Anyway, Babel has been poor in his outings for Liverpool so far. That's probably why.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Mr Alan wrote: »

But we tried to win that game until the end, that was the point i was trying to make. Rafas cautious approach today can be deemed understandable. now tbh, sometimes i'd prefer we went to the jugular a little more. but Rafa has had success before, so lets hope it happens again.



Since Rafa has arrived at Liverpool;

Istanbul-probably the greatest final of all time. anywhere. ever.

Olympiakos-you want entertainment? that game will last in the memory for most football fans forever.

West Ham (FA Cup final)-one of the greatest finals ever played in the oldest club competition around.

Arsenal in last years CL quarter final.

Thats MASSIVE stages and games alone, i could also recall numerous league/cup demolitions provided, the likes of Besiktas,Fulham,Derby,Arsenal,Luton etc

Liverpool provide more than their share of amazingly entertaining football.

I just dont expect it every week, unlike others.

AND there is something wrong with fans who just want entertainment from football, they are missing the point altogether for me, granted everyone wants to be entertained from time to time, the above games prove that we do that though. for me, football is about more than that. My beef is with the modern plastic football fans who i run into over at Anfield, or down the pub who expect champagne football all the time, and are pissed off if they dont get their monies worth after their trip. these fans are a sham imo and should be locked outside the shankly gates.

Everything you've outlined was a cup game and no one's doubting his ability in cup competitions, but it's the premiership that's the challenge.

And whether we play good/bad football, I don't care, but we need to be able to break teams down. We've failed to that twice against Leige and now Villa. I really really hope I'm wrong, but I do not see us breaking down Man U in two weeks time, based on what I've seen so far, and this is what needs to be done if Liverpool are to be taken seriously.

gixerfixer

Boggles wrote: »

To win things.

Lol. You got me there. Listen i've no idea why Babel wasnt deployed up front yesterday. Injury,rubbish in training this week could be a number of reasons. Rafa will be judged by the teams position at the end of the year. Personally id like to see us play better football but hey i dont care at the moment once we challange for the league this season.

noodler

Thats a very optimistic view Monkey. I know the other top 3 teams have changed/improved their teams as well but the fact remains we are no closer to winning the title than we were under Houllier based on this evidence.

Its not that we got a point from Villa, it was the manner of the performance (the 5th in a row), no ambition, tactical bewilderment and of course (and less importantly) horrible to watch.

On a day when Chelsea dropped points, I like to think we would have gone for it.

Thats all.

monkey9

noodler wrote: »

Thats a very optimistic view Monkey. I know the other top 3 teams have changed/improved their teams as well but the fact remains we are no closer to winning the title than we were under Houllier based on this evidence.

Its not that we got a point from Villa, it was the manner of the performance (the 5th in a row), no ambition, tactical bewilderment and of course (and less importantly) horrible to watch.

On a day when Chelsea dropped points, I like to think we would have gone for it.

Thats all.

Yeah, i thought i'd go for optimism and see how it sits with me. If feels weird, but i'll try it out for a while

noodler

Well, being optimistic, there is no way we can keep this level of crappery up for much longer. Just like you can't be amazing all season.

Im more concerned with Ireland now anyway with the recent injuries.

Villain

Villa were without Sidwell yesterday and I think he will make a big difference alongside Barry rather than Petrov, and with Milner on the right will also change the side, Villa have spend a lot of money this season but it is only to get the squad numbers to a normal premier league number, when you consider Rafa has spent around 200 million, I'm happy with a point becuase we aren't near the quality of Liverpool yet, we will have to fight hard to get 5th or 6th I don't think any Villa fans think we near a top 4 team yet. The problem is Pool fans think they can challenge for 1st every season but never happens.

One Cold Hand

Al, come on whats with all the petty excuses!;)

Mr Alan wrote: »

simple fact is that this is Villa fans game of the season, a chance to prove that they are the "real deal" and show that Rafa is a nonce who has a cheek to try and buy their best or second best player, a player that still wanted the move but the clubs were anable to agree a fee.

This was in no way our game of the season. The season as a whole will prove whether we're the real deal, not one game.

Mr Alan wrote: »

We went into it after a 120min game during the week, they went into it rested up after resting some players during their midweek game.

Come on, we had a game too and only rested a few players. More importantly, our game was a full 24 hours later, so this is a ridiculous excuse.
If ye'd put them away in the first leg like ye should have, ye wouldn't have had a 120min game.

Mr Alan wrote: »

we went into it with our best player missing, and lost our next best player within 20 mins. they were full strenght.

Again, Villa were missing Sidwell and Bouma. Not as important to the team as Gerrard and Torres (i suppose when a 2-man-team are missing those 2 men it's a big loss;)), but important none the less. Also Milner didn't start, and I've no doubt he will prove to be very important over the course of the season.

Mr Alan wrote: »

Neither side was particularly decent in attack, both sides were good in defence.

A fair assessment, as was the result.

Mr Alan wrote: »

Now was the time for Villa to do us, and even despite all of the above, they were unable to. read into that watever you want-i know wat it spells out for me though, we are still on a very different level to Aston Villa.

Look, I don't think Villa fans are claiming for one second that Villa are on the same level as Liverpool, but your making points as if we are?! But again, one game won't decide that, the season will.

So why are Villa fans so happy with a draw? Simple really, we drew with a top 4 side, and that's always a good result for us. Don't read any more into it than that. A draw with a top 4 team means we are at least competing to some degree, while we still may not have reached the same level.

One Cold Hand

gixerfixer wrote: »

I mean it's not to much to say this was the biggest game for MON since he took over at Villa ( a chance to show just how far he could take the club)

I'm not even going to bother replying to the rest of your post, but this point is just ridiculous. How is hell is this the most important game for O'Neill? If anything the games against the top 4 are less meaningful, as we don't expect too much from them. You're only saying it was a 'big' game because of what went on over the summer between the two clubs. It wasn't ACTUALLY that important, even it Sky and the media build it up.
The Intertoto cup tie against Odense was FAR more important as it guaranteed UEFA Cup entry (go on, have your usual pop at us about UEFA cup). It may have been against a weaker team, but there was a lot more at stake.
And there'll be far more important games later in the season, games against the likes of City, Everton, Spurs, who we'll be competing with for UEFA cup spots.

Mr Alan

One Cold Hand wrote: »

Look, I don't think Villa fans are claiming for one second that Villa are on the same level as Liverpool, but your making points as if we are?!

Helix wrote: »

why on earth would anyone be bitter of that tripe? liverpool showed nothing at all to suggest villa wont be competing with them come the business end of the season

I knows its only Helix, but still. It was worth commenting on

Using his logic, Villa have shown nothing to prove they wont be competing with Stoke come the end of the season, if anything Stoke have impressed more.

Now, i know thats nonsense, and you know its nonsense-but he seems to place a lot of emphasis on one match so why shouldnt i do the same?

Mitch Connor

Mr Alan wrote: »

I knows its only Helix, but still. It was worth commenting on

Using his logic, Villa have shown nothing to prove they wont be competing with Stoke come the end of the season, if anything Stoke have impressed more.

*ignores last paragraph*

MR ALAN ADMITS STOKE ARE BETTER THAN LIVERPOOL!:eek::eek:

invincibleirish

One Cold Hand wrote: »

So why are Villa fans so happy with a draw? Simple really, we drew with a top 4 side, and that's always a good result for us. Don't read any more into it than that. A draw with a top 4 team means we are at least competing to some degree, while we still may not have reached the same level.

I dont think all Villa fans were entirely happy with the draw. Given they were shorn of their 2 star players they were there for the taking.

We can talk about the top 4, diifferent levels etc. but basically LFC have been playing poorly all season, this was a chance to get 3 points and send out a signal of intent on behalf of Villa, a point isn't a disaster but its no great shakes either.

rgiller

invincibleirish wrote: »

We can talk about the top 4, diifferent levels etc. but basically LFC have been playing poorly all season, this was a chance to get 3 points and send out a signal of intent on behalf of Villa, a point isn't a disaster but its no great shakes either.

On the positive side, Villa can now go into these games expecting at least a point. It's not too long ago we couldn't buy one off the top teams

invincibleirish

rgiller wrote: »

On the positive side, Villa can now go into these games expecting at least a point. It's not too long ago we couldn't buy one off the top teams

True true, apart from Man Utd & perhaps Chelsea im confident of Villa having the potential to take points off all other teams H&A throughout the season (except Stoke).

As i say we've come a long way. baby.

One Cold Hand

Tauren wrote: »

*ignores last paragraph*

MR ALAN ADMITS STOKE ARE BETTER THAN LIVERPOOL!:eek::eek:

Lol, didn't someone show a few years ago that Doncaster are better than Barcelona, based on various English and European cup results (ie upsets)?!?
I think Leeds were the main link...