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I can't remember

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  • 25-08-2008 6:32pm
    #1
    bigtime
    Closed Accounts Posts: 33 ✭


    What is it with this lot.

    First we had Berite, then young Albert and now Dick Roche.

    http://www.dickroche.com/article.php?sid=1069&PHPSESSID=83ba13de258f3da8c342f4cd27f9c45c

    "There is neither the possibility nor the prospect of another renegotiation and those who are suggesting this are very seriously misleading the Irish People.

    Without Irish ratification, this Treaty 'is dead' and that will have the most serious ramification for the whole of Europe. It will also mean the Ireland will be throwing away all the goodwill that we have amassed in the EU over the years for no benefit. "

    And to think a small minority still have some faith in these fools.


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    #2
    turgon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,762 ✭✭✭turgon


    Well, was not Brian Cowens complete original argument being that if we voted NO we would lose political favour abroad? Hasn't happened, that was only scaremongering, just like the EU Conscription those stupid anarchists told of was never going to come to fruition.


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    #3
    sink
    Registered Users Posts: 4,314 ✭✭✭sink


    turgon wrote: »
    Well, was not Brian Cowens complete original argument being that if we voted NO we would lose political favour abroad? Hasn't happened, that was only scaremongering, just like the EU Conscription those stupid anarchists told of was never going to come to fruition.

    Hasn't happened? On what evidence to you base this assertion? We have not come across an issue in the few months since the ballot to properly test the argument.


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    #4
    genericgoon
    Registered Users Posts: 1,671 ✭✭✭genericgoon


    Something like losing political favour is not something which is very obvious. Its something which would only effect Ireland subtlety in the long term.


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    #5
    djpbarry
    Registered Users Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭djpbarry


    bigtime wrote: »
    I can't remember

    What is it with this lot.

    First we had Berite, then young Albert and now Dick Roche.
    ...
    And to think a small minority still have some faith in these fools.
    :confused:

    What can't you remember?


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    #6
    turgon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,762 ✭✭✭turgon


    genericgoon wrote: »
    Something like losing political favour is not something which is very obvious. Its something which would only effect Ireland subtlety in the long term.

    Quite right, but the way Cowen was talking was like he was forecasting some kind of Irish apocalypse, and he definitely gave the impression that such loss of political favour would have immediate and very noticeable repercussions.


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    #7
    tolosenc
    Registered Users Posts: 6,889 ✭✭✭tolosenc


    Lisbon comes into force on January 1, 2009. So, there's not going to be major reprocussions until then, just getting everyone else's noses out of joint.

    And if anyone suggested an "apocalypse", it was someone on the 'no' side.


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    #8
    molloyjh
    Registered Users Posts: 24,762 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    turgon wrote: »
    Quite right, but the way Cowen was talking was like he was forecasting some kind of Irish apocalypse, and he definitely gave the impression that such loss of political favour would have immediate and very noticeable repercussions.

    To be fair thats just the way the media (shower of gobsheens - I love that word!) spun it. In truth all he really said was that we would lose a lot of political capital and favour if this wasn't passed. And I believe we will/have, but there has been nothing to support or refute that as of yet.

    When you think about it we were one of the big negotiators during Lisbon. Bertie got a great rep in the EU during our time with the EU Presidency for his negotiating skill, even going so far as ensuring that the big nations agreed to the Commissioner rotation system (initially they insisted on the big nations having permanent spots on the Commission and smaller nations having rotating spots). They told the EU that we would ratify the Treaty in our referendum too, and now we haven't.

    So the EU position was
    a) Irish politicians are very professional and capable and
    b) the Irish people will show great popular support for the Treaty proving to the sceptics that the people want it (this on the word of our Government).

    Now however, given that the Government failed to deliver what they promised the EU will just look at them and think
    a) they couldn't run a proper, decent campaign on Lisbon, so they obviously aren't all that capable or reliable and
    b) they have really put a spanner in the works re the popular support through their inability, why should we trust them in future.

    Admittedly this was something that the politicians here brought on themselves (and sadly us as a result) through rash promises and a terrible campaign, but the reasons for it are pretty irrelevant now. If, as I believe, this is the case it will have a negative impact on the country. And one that may be difficult to measure fully, particularly in the short term.


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