Groundworks price

whitelightrider

Folks,

Im looking for a comparison cost for ground works being carried out on our new build. The guy is carrying out the following:

All pipe work around the house
Paving stone and patio layed - 70 sq meters.
All kerbing layed
Trenches dug for power, water, etc
Paths around garage.
Gardens landscaped and seeded.
Basically everything finished outside the house apart from the driveway finish.

Quote for the lot came to 7,000.

muffler

Maybe the gardening/DIY forum may generate more replies but we will leave it open here to see how it goes and if necessary it can be moved later.

whitelightrider

Thanks Muffler.

yop

whitelightrider wrote: »

Folks,

Im looking for a comparison cost for ground works being carried out on our new build. The guy is carrying out the following:

All pipe work around the house
Paving stone and patio layed - 70 sq meters.
All kerbing layed
Trenches dug for power, water, etc
Paths around garage.
Gardens landscaped and seeded.
Basically everything finished outside the house apart from the driveway finish.

Quote for the lot came to 7,000.

Can you get a breakdown of price off him?
How many days of labour?
How many sqm of concrete/paving etc?
How much kerbing?

Now after doing a lot of that work above myself, there is a hell of a lot of work to be done in whats listed above.
But it all depends on how much you have to do, with regards days.

For labourer you are talking about 125 per day.
Grass seed 80 euro per 25kg of seed, this will do about 1/2 acre.
Kerbs are about 10 euro each.
Concrete for paths, about 80/90 euro per sq m.
A machine is about 50 euro per hour, or for a mini digger it is about 30/35 euro per hour.

See if you can get more of a breakdown

whitelightrider

yop wrote: »

Can you get a breakdown of price off him?
How many days of labour?
How many sqm of concrete/paving etc?
How much kerbing?

Now after doing a lot of that work above myself, there is a hell of a lot of work to be done in whats listed above.
But it all depends on how much you have to do, with regards days.

For labourer you are talking about 125 per day.
Grass seed 80 euro per 25kg of seed, this will do about 1/2 acre.
Kerbs are about 10 euro each.
Concrete for paths, about 80/90 euro per sq m.
A machine is about 50 euro per hour, or for a mini digger it is about 30/35 euro per hour.

See if you can get more of a breakdown

Hi Yop,

Basically the breakdown I got was 5600 for all the ground works, and 1400 for the gardens seeded and landscaped.
Theres 70sq meters of paving to be laid, a 19sq meter stone patio, 130 linear meters of kerbing, all trenches for ESB, phone and septic tank and all the laying of pipiing around the house for percolation and soak pits.

Im supplying all the stuff. He's already been there a full week and he's there all of this week as well, and he's not idle.

whitelightrider

Hi guys,

Anyone have any ideas on the price I was given for these groundworks?

*Derek*

whitelightrider wrote: »

Hi guys,

Anyone have any ideas on the price I was given for these groundworks?

I was going to say that it was good price but just saw your supplying the products yourself not sure now.

williamsrk

ithink thats a good price depending on what part of the country you live in

whitelightrider

williamsrk wrote: »

ithink thats a good price depending on what part of the country you live in

Living in Galway williamsrk.

De_man

williamsrk wrote: »

ithink thats a good price depending on what part of the country you live in

i personally would have no problem with that quote, if i could have got
my place done for that price....well i wouldn't be up to my eyes in muck
now:rolleyes:

let's hope you get a few dry days to finish the lawn

harly1516

The price seems fair and he's worked a week already why check for a price now seems you made a deal already now trying to haggle on the finshed job not very nice at all

whitelightrider

harly1516 wrote: »

The price seems fair and he's worked a week already why check for a price now seems you made a deal already now trying to haggle on the finshed job not very nice at all

harly, Im not trying to haggle on a finished price. Where did you read that from my above post?
I was merely looking for a comparison price as I know nothing about groundworks. To give some background - he's a good friend of mine that I used to bounce with who asked for the job. He wanted me to compare the price he gave me so that I wouldnt think I was being done as I didnt know how much it would cost. Thats all. I am not looking for a price so that I can go back and haggle with him.

whitelightrider

De_man wrote: »

i personally would have no problem with that quote, if i could have got
my place done for that price....well i wouldn't be up to my eyes in muck
now:rolleyes:

let's hope you get a few dry days to finish the lawn

Cheers De_man. Thats the way I felt when he gave me the price. Its well worth the money in that respect

Fingers crossed for a few dry days. Although this is Ireland so Im not too sure if crossing the fingers is enough anymore!!

Leadership

Looks a fair price but its not exactly "mates rates", ground works is a skill to ensure a high spec finish.

I would look at it from the view point that the labour would be in the region of €160 per man per day. If he is on his own then about €1600 for two weeks or €2400 for 3 weeks.

He would have to hire a digger/jcb at €500 > €800 per week and also add €500 for ad hoc bits and pieces.

So I make it around 4k for the labour.

whitelightrider

Leadership wrote: »

Looks a fair price but its not exactly "mates rates", ground works is a skill to ensure a high spec finish.

I would look at it from the view point that the labour would be in the region of €160 per man per day. If he is on his own then about €1600 for two weeks or €2400 for 3 weeks.

He would have to hire a digger/jcb at €500 > €800 per week and also add €500 for ad hoc bits and pieces.

So I make it around 4k for the labour.

Folks,

I have a 19m2 Patio area to lay with a sandstone circle and outer edge. Was quoted 1600 just to lay it. Is that expensive or would that be about right to lay the patio area?

whitelightrider

Anyone?

muffler

whitelightrider wrote: »

Folks,

I have a 19m2 Patio area to lay with a sandstone circle and outer edge. Was quoted 1600 just to lay it. Is that expensive or would that be about right to lay the patio area?

It looks abit high to me but again you wil get different prices from different people. You could get someone to do it for hal that and they might make a balls of it though.

I would suggest that you get another 2 quotes.

whitelightrider

Its already down Muffler but no price was given at the start. Its a "friend" thats doing it for me but he seems to be adding bits on here and there. A job that was quoted as 7000 to include laws has jumped to 9400 and now he wants 1600 for the patio aswell.

RKQ

whitelightrider wrote: »

Folks,

I have a 19m2 Patio area to lay with a sandstone circle and outer edge. Was quoted 1600 just to lay it. Is that expensive or would that be about right to lay the patio area?

Sounds abit expensive. I know theres a bit of time and skill involved in laying a sandstone circle, but €84/m2 seems steep. I heard brick paving is about €14/m2 to lay so €70/m2 extra for sandstone seems high.

Did you get 3 quotes to do the exact same work?

whitelightrider

RKQ wrote: »

Sounds abit expensive. I know theres a bit of time and skill involved in laying a sandstone circle, but €84/m2 seems steep. I heard brick paving is about €14/m2 to lay so €70/m2 extra for sandstone seems high.

Did you get 3 quotes to do the exact same work?

I wish I had now. It was a friend who Ive known for years who was short of work. He gave me a price of 5600 for all the groundworks and laying of cobble stone paths, and 1400 for levelling and seeding of gardens. Now he's putting up the price and charging 1600 for laying a patio. It just seems really excessive to be honest. I know theres a skill to laying the circle and he did make a nice job. But it only took 3 - 4 days tops which is 400 per day? Come on thats crazy. Also he ordered way too much kerbing - 50 linear meters which costs me over 500 extra. Kerbs are sitting there and the company dont take them back.

RKQ

Sounds like a difficult situation. Hard not to mix business and pleassure but right now, your "friend" is your employee and friendship doesn't come into it. (Easier said than done!)

Some sandstone circles can be bought ready made and are quite straight forward to set out. Was your friend who was short of work, quite for a reason? - did he have a habit of trying to rip people off?

Don't be sentimental. Its time for hard talking, cash is cash and you have worked hard for yours. Don't throw your money away!
Negotiate, reason and agree a fair and equatable price for this "extra". Don't allow "friendship" to cloud your judgement - he doesn't seem to be letting it affect him. Be firm but fair.

muffler

I agree with what RKQ said. You could end up loosing a mate but then again he didnt consider the friendship when he increased the price.

whitelightrider

Thanks guys. Yeah Im beginning to wonder about the reasons as to why he was quiet. I mean I helped him out by giving him work and the work he did is really good. But there are a few things that annoyed me:
1 He gave a price now he needs to stick to it
2 He measured the area for the kerbing and theres 48 linear meters left over (2 pallets) at 12.87 per LM. I didnt fork out that much on kerbing just so that he can mess up his measurements. And I called him 3 times to make the measurements were right.
3 84 euro per m2 is way too much.

Friends or not he's not going to rip me off. Id have given the patio a shot myself if Id know if was gona cost that much.

whitelightrider

Called a paving shop in Galway and asked them straight out how much to lay the paving for 19m2. 750 as long as the hardcore is down. If not then up it to 900 - 950. Now my blood is boiling. Thats €650 of a price difference coming from a complete stranger. So much for bloody friendship

Quazzie

You're a good advertisement as to why you should never get mates in to do work for you.

whitelightrider

Quazzie2002 wrote: »

You're a good advertisement as to why you should never get mates in to do work for you.

Exactly. And I was trying to be nice to a friend who didnt have any work on. He told me that he'd "beat any price I got for the job". Yeah right.

muffler

Not strictly allowed in this forum but let us know how you get on. We may as well hear the end of the story.

Poor Uncle Tom

muffler wrote: »

..let us know how you get on. We may as well hear the end of the story.

Sadist..:)

whitelightrider

Will do. And thanks folks for setting my mind at ease. Knowing you're being screwed is half the battle. Now all I have to do is deal with it.

muffler

Poor Uncle Tom wrote: »

Sadist..:)

You heard then

whitelightrider

Right got 2 prices to go back to my "friend" with. Dearest from a local supplier of 750 to lay. From another supplier it was $25 per sq meter. Which is about €475. Thats a huge difference to 1600. Armed with these Im meeting him tomorrow. Will post tomorrow night.

muffler

We await with baited breath

I suppose camcorder coverage would be too much to ask for :eek:

RKQ

Getting quotes was a good idea, you are well armed, so stick to your guns!

(€650 or so is alot of your money... nice home cinema or European weekend away, two new DVD camcorders, cool Christmas... times are tough, so don't allow yourself to be overcharged)

Eager to hear how to get on!
Good luck.

whitelightrider

Ok folks heres where I am today.

I finally called the guy yesterday. Its tough calling a friend to pick apart his price so it took me a couple of days to build up the courage. Dont like confrontations.

So I called him and he went through his prices. Now theres a few things niggling at me still like the fact he's charging for the footpath around the garage - I assumed this was in on the price. Anyway - the patio. He called out 1600 and I stopped him. Told him that Id gotten 5 other quotes ranging from €20 to €25 per sq meter. He was shocked and told me he was pricing per day - but maybe it took them longer to do it! I was ticked off right there. Why should I be paying because they werent used to doing the job. He told me that he was going to talk to his partner and see what they come back with.
Now the one thing Im going to pull him up on is the fact that he was going to "beat anyone's price". Yet he's already come in dearer than another quote I got. If he calls me back today then I'll pull him up on that too.

Leadership

I never trust "mates rates" unless its a real close friend as more often than not these are more than a standard quote. You did well and followed a decent process so in any further discussions you will be well armed.

I would not insist you friend beats the quote as then you could see some serious quality reductions but instead try and get down to a price that you are both comfortable with.

whitelightrider

Right guys Im here with an update. He came back with a price of 600 for the laying of the patio. Not over the moon about it but I stuck with it for the sake of our friendship.

Now things have slightly changed. He is looking for the remainder of the payment for all the groundworks. But it's not finished. There is kerbing to be laid (10 meters) at the front which cant be done until next year as a machine will be needed to get in to level the back garden. The back garden isnt scraped and theres a mound of clay to be put in around the top of the septic tank. Also the back part of the drive is all hills and hollows as it wasnt rolled at all. Should I hold back money for this until its completed?

Also the site is .5 acre and he said he'd seed and level the lawns for 1400. He raked a small section (.33 of the garden area) and broadcast the seed onto it 2 weeks ago. Its coming up in patches. The agreement was for a machine to do this as I couldve broadcast it myself. Now's he's looking for 800 for doing that much :eek: Im just wondering what approach to take. Needless to say the friendship isnt coming into this anymore. Its business.

So Im looking for advice folks and an idea of price would be a great help also.

RKQ

Common sense - business now, so you pay for completed works only.
Any work started but not finished will be paid when its fully finished.

Kerbing isn't started so theres nothing to pay for. What guarentee have you that he'll come back next year to finish it?

Deduct cost of kerbing etc from original agreed price. Be fair, use common sense and don't be bullied... its business, so you only pay for what you get!

smashey

Agreed with RKQ.

Don't pay for work that hasn't been done.

whitelightrider

smashey wrote: »

Agreed with RKQ.

Don't pay for work that hasn't been done.

Thanks folks. 90% of the kerbing is done so Ill pay for 90% of it. The back still has 2 mounds of clay piled up in it and the septic isnt properly covered. From what I can gather thats supposed to be done.

Also Ive contacted a landscaping company to price the seeding and leveling of the garden so that I can compare. But Im not paying out 800 for it. Fair enough he raked it out. Id say 1 day between 2 guys. So Ill pay their wages for that and the grass seed. But Im not happy with the way it's done.

gally74

to finish off a house, not including paving, around 3500 - 4500

muffler

Have to agree with others. Friend or no friend dont pay unless the work is completed.