Ryanair emergency diversion

highlydebased

IMO

The crew handled the situation per the book and well

Some of the pax were annoyed they didnt get a PA, pity for them I say

Otherwise it was by the book

FruitLover

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

If people paid attention to the cabin crew's briefing before take off instead of chatting and reading the papers probably none of this would ever have happened. Instructions on how to use these masks are also printed on the headrests of the foreward facing seats.

Eh... wha? If the passengers paid attention to the crew instructions, the plane wouldn't have lost cabin pressure? I'm not sure how that works.

The passengers evidently used the masks just fine.

zuroph

well done ryanair.

cant wait to see the red tops tomorrow "it is suspected that some masks were not working!" :rolleyes:

Run_to_da_hills

FruitLover wrote: »

Eh... wha? If the passengers paid attention to the crew instructions, the plane wouldn't have lost cabin pressure? I'm not sure how that works.

The passengers evidently used the masks just fine.

I am referring to the 16 pax that suffered ear aches because they were unable to deploy their masks. :rolleyes:

*Kol*

wittymoniker wrote: »

about 7000 hours, how about you?

7000 hours flying? Impressive.:cool: I would have expected better from you then.

ian_m

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

One simple solution to this problem of not paying attention during the manditory safety drill is to follow it by a test with random questions about emergency procedures among passengers and offer spot prizes of free flights for correct answers and boot any one who fails it off the plane.

I doubt passengers would appreciate being treated like they are back at school.

probe

BrianD wrote: »

Isn't 'English' the international defacto language of aviation?

While English may be the industry language of aviation, not every PAX has good English or understands unfamiliar technical terms in English. And people should not be required to know English to fly safely.

An oxygen mask deployment is a predictable event where cabin crew may be unable to move about the aircraft and deal with passenger problems and make manual voice announcements. It is a very simple event to plan for with a detailed recorded voice announcement in multiple languages to be used at the point when the masks drop down.

There is no excuse for not having it in place. The aircraft manufacturers are negligent in my view for not including it as standard on the aircraft they sell. The regulatory bodies who oversee airline safety are negligent for not requiring it to be standard on all public service aircraft on their register. Airlines are negligent for operating aircraft without it in place and working properly.

.probe

penexpers

probe wrote: »

While English may be the industry language of aviation, not every PAX has good English or understands unfamiliar technical terms in English. And people should not be required to know English to fly safely.

That's why the safety cards have pictures on them.

An oxygen mask deployment is a predictable event where cabin crew may be unable to move about the aircraft and deal with passenger problems and make manual voice announcements. It is a very simple event to plan for with a detailed recorded voice announcement in multiple languages to be used at the point when the masks drop down.

Time is of the essence when an incident like this occurs. By the time an announcement is made in every major language, some of the passengers could be dead. (I believe there's only enough oxygen to breathe for seven seconds at 35,000 ft, someone correct me if I am wrong). Having an automatic announcement would be utterly pointless and may indeed only add to the confusion.

There is no excuse for not having it in place. The aircraft manufacturers are negligent in my view for not including it as standard on the aircraft they sell. The regulatory bodies who oversee airline safety are negligent for not requiring it to be standard on all public service aircraft on their register. Airlines are negligent for operating aircraft without it in place and working properly.

It wouldn't serve any purpose.

BrianD

probe wrote: »

While English may be the industry language of aviation, not every PAX has good English or understands unfamiliar technical terms in English. And people should not be required to know English to fly safely.

An oxygen mask deployment is a predictable event where cabin crew may be unable to move about the aircraft and deal with passenger problems and make manual voice announcements. It is a very simple event to plan for with a detailed recorded voice announcement in multiple languages to be used at the point when the masks drop down.

There is no excuse for not having it in place. The aircraft manufacturers are negligent in my view for not including it as standard on the aircraft they sell. The regulatory bodies who oversee airline safety are negligent for not requiring it to be standard on all public service aircraft on their register. Airlines are negligent for operating aircraft without it in place and working properly.

.probe

I think we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. How many languages would you say is acceptable to have on this announcement? Do you not think that some passengers might get even more paniced is they are hearing urgent announcements in different languages that they can not understand and believe that they are missing something? Ryanair probably have one of the best systems where the instructions are graphically represented in front of you.

Furthermore, if a major depressurisation took place, lets say similar to that Quantas flight where a hole appeared in the fuselage then it would probably be impossible to hear anything over the wind and external noises.

There's no negligence here. It seems to me that what is in place achieves the objective of passenger safety on all counts.

*Kol*

+1
Thanks for saving me having to write all that!!

The amount of time you have to put on your mask is hopefully more than 7 seconds. Better to put it on straight away like they tell you in the safety brief and the safety cards.

I think the automated safety announcement subject has been talked to death now!;)

zuroph

question; Did anyone here not know hot to fit one of those masks? or that you had to pull on the hose?

jimmycrackcorm

how do the oxygen masks protect against the effects of depressurization on ears? Also i'm surprised that people don't automatically put on a mask once they see it in front of them.

*Kol*

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

how do the oxygen masks protect against the effects of depressurization on ears? Also i'm surprised that people don't automatically put on a mask once they see it in front of them.

They don't. It can be bloody sore if you have a cold or sinus problems.

(Time for a small rant)

People cant sit in their seats when the seatbelt sign is on, they cant wait till the plane stops at the gate before turning their phones on, they dont bother their arses listening to the safety brief...why be surprised they wouldn't put on or know how to put on an oxygen mask? (Thats a rhetorical question not directed at you jimmycrackcorm!!)

zuroph

*Kol* wrote: »

They don't. It can be bloody sore if you have a cold or sin

flew with ryanair on saturday, and for the second time my girlfriend was in agony on the descent, i think its a sinus problem of some sort, she gets an acute pain around her nose and eye. other times, she's been fine. can only imagine what would happen to her if the plane suddenly depressurised.

Biro

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

I am referring to the 16 pax that suffered ear aches because they were unable to deploy their masks. :rolleyes:

Ear aches have nothing to do with the mask being on or off.

lithiumoxide

probe wrote: »

When the masks have to be used, there should be an automatic recorded voice announcement in English other main European languages telling people what to do again, stressing the need to pull down on the mask to start the flow of oxygen. They should then be told by the same automated system why this is happening in general terms - to reduce anxiety.

You'll have a hard time hearing anything when a cabin is being depressurised like that, not only from the noise of air escaping, but also from the lack of air in the cabin and the loud ringing in your ears when your sinuses are depressurising too.

af666x

Sorry Probe, you've already had one thread locked... Can you please just answer this question - this one question alone, and none other....

Were the passengers hospitalised due to lack of oxygen, or was it because of the de-pressurisation causing acute sinus, ear and head pain and shock caused by the situation?

Now, if you cannot answer this post reasonably and honestly without going on another anti-Ryanair rant, please log off your PC.

I did say please.

Tropheus

zuroph wrote: »

well done ryanair.

cant wait to see the red tops tomorrow "it is suspected that some masks were not working!" :rolleyes:

"Plucky Brits escape Mick airline terror":D

probe

af666x wrote: »

Sorry Probe, you've already had one thread locked... Can you please just answer this question - this one question alone, and none other....

Were the passengers hospitalised due to lack of oxygen, or was it because of the de-pressurisation causing acute sinus, ear and head pain and shock caused by the situation?

Now, if you cannot answer this post reasonably and honestly without going on another anti-Ryanair rant, please log off your PC.

I did say please.

A diagnosis of the cause of Ryanair passenger admissions to Centre Hospitalier Limoges is a matter for the doctors and specialists on duty at the time in question.

Suffice to say that it is remarkable the extent to which certain elements of the Irish aviation industry will go to brush things under the carpet, rather than allowing a full and frank discussion to take place, which can only be to the benefit of both the industry, the country, and the travelling public.

.probe

probe

lithiumoxide wrote: »

You'll have a hard time hearing anything when a cabin is being depressurised like that, not only from the noise of air escaping, but also from the lack of air in the cabin and the loud ringing in your ears when your sinuses are depressurising too.

Well if that is the reality of the situation, the obvious communications solution is to attach a durable plastic notice package to the mask with the same information in multiple languages - i.e. incorporating "how to instructions" and "why this is happening" (ie depressurization of the cabin) to provide some reassurance to the passenger that the airline has taken the necessary measures to manage the risks.

If only to prevent the intelligent person from coming to the alarming conclusion that the company in question, and Irish airline regulation in general is run by people who don't know what they are doing, and things have spun out of control!

.probe

lithiumoxide

probe wrote: »

A diagnosis of the cause of Ryanair passenger admissions to Centre Hospitalier Limoges is a matter for the doctors and specialists on duty at the time in question.

As someone who suffered greatly in the past with sinus pressure and ear problems (I used to be very deaf because of it) I can tell you that ear-ache and such pain is caused by changes in pressure between the outside and inside of the eardrum (i.e. in the sinus and outside the ear). Some flyers often experience some ear pain as the craft ascends/descends, while it seems to be more common for the ear to equalise this pressure itself, resulting in what can sometimes be a painful 'pop'.

Some ear discomfort can be expected while the pressure changes during ascent and descent, but these maneouvres take place over long enough time for the ear to balance the pressures itself without difficulty. However, if a fast change in pressure occurs - such as a rapid ascent or descent due, possibly, to a craft losing pressure - the eardrum will stretch and cause pain, before it has the chance to relieve pressure.

lithiumoxide

probe wrote: »

Well if that is the reality of the situation, the obvious communications solution is to attach a durable plastic notice package to the mask with the same information in multiple languages - i.e. incorporating "how to instructions" and "why this is happening" (ie depressurization of the cabin) to provide some reassurance to the passenger that the airline has taken the necessary measures to manage the risks.

If only to prevent the intelligent person from coming to the alarming conclusion that the company in question, and Irish airline regulation in general is run by people who don't know what they are doing, and things have spun out of control!

.probe

There is already a notice in front of every passenger's seat. There's no need to repeat the same thing twice, especially when the use of an oxygen mask is also demonstrated before every flight.

There is no need to publish anything in multiple languages, as it's already shown pictorially. If I can follow the pictures, and if you can follow the pictures (I assume you can), then there is no reason to think that a non-English speaker would not be able to understand.

Things are not "spinning out of control". The hospitalisation was due to rapid pressure changes, not due to lack of oxygen. Please note also that 'hospitalisation' may refer to something as simple as a check up by a number of doctors in a hospital.

OPENROAD

Apparently another Ryanair plane had to make a diversion due to a jar of mushrooms in the overhaed lockers.


http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23545606-details/Ryanair+jet+grounded+by+jar+of+mushrooms/article.do

Zyox

lithiumoxide wrote: »

There is already a notice in front of every passenger's seat. There's no need to repeat the same thing twice, especially when the use of an oxygen mask is also demonstrated before every flight.

There is no need to publish anything in multiple languages, as it's already shown pictorially. If I can follow the pictures, and if you can follow the pictures (I assume you can), then there is no reason to think that a non-English speaker would not be able to understand.

Things are not "spinning out of control". The hospitalisation was due to rapid pressure changes, not due to lack of oxygen. Please note also that 'hospitalisation' may refer to something as simple as a check up by a number of doctors in a hospital.

Should also be noted that if you're at 40,000ft and an average adult non smoker your useful time of consciousness is roughly 6 seconds, based on what I've read, and I think it would be obvious that some big silly instruction sheet sticking out of an oxygen mask could most definitely get in the way of you staying alive. This means that after 6 seconds you will pass out due to insufficient oxygen, coupled with the decompression causing the air to be evacuated from your lungs, and you will die.

Which brings me to the point that nobody on the Ryanair plane passed out or died, which would lead you to the sensible conclusion they all got delivered sufficient oxygen for the descent via the masks, which dropped, and worked.

I don't work for Ryanair. I don't work for the IAA. I don't work for anyone. And I don't particularly like flying as a passenger with Ryanair most of the time However I'm going to stand up for them when this continued conspiracy nut nonsense keeps getting spouted.

Just when I thought nobody could top the absolute tripe that Pen Hadow came out with on BBC4 about the whole affair... :rolleyes:
It is a lack of understanding and knowledge on all of this that's causing those who know so little to jump to conclusions and frustrate/infuriate those who know what they're talking about, and are red in the face trying to explain it to people who clearly don't want to listen

Davidth88

Goodness me what a lot of histrionics and excitement :-)

I imagine the ear problems was due to the change in pressure , both from the emergency decent and from the de-pressurisation. ( ever flown with a cold ? )

I have read/heard various things about ' my/our mask didn't fill up ', well listen to the pre-flight , they don't ' fill up '.

The only good suggestion here , with the flight crew busy , and the cabin crew seated with masks on , is the one about an automated announcement , indeed I am surprised there isn't one , would a cabin crew type person like to comment , is there one on EI or anyone else ? Would that be practical ? After all it wouldn't be finding a tape as some people say here but pressing a button on the PA console in the cabin.

Anyway it seems to me that the flight crew did their jobs well, and for once FR seemed to do their job and actually care for the passengers ( organise alternative travel etc ).

Whats all the excitment about ?

As for ' Irish Airlines' safety briefings being any better/worse than anyone else I can say they are the same and I have flown a lot on many many airlines.

pclancy

Dyflin wrote: »

It's a very disturbing story.

21 unsold seats on a flight to Spain in peak season.

My thoughts are with the board at this difficult time.

HAAAAAAA :D:D

Excellent post!

Why did I read from the end all the way back to page 1 to get that?

I'm in favour of a/c makers putting in a simple pre-recorded message telling pax what to do in times of emergency descent. Cabin PAs can be turned up VERY loud when required, I've flown on flights where its been uncomfortably loud. I've also been taxing to the the stand on an internal Chinese flight and heard a stewardess scream at pax to sit down when they thought we'd arrived at the gate and man did they sit down quick it was so loud! A simple feature that would help during a decompression descent.

Of course people dont bother reading safety instructions, half of them are too terrified to through lack of flying experience (think average once-a-year holidaymaker) and wouldnt dream of seeing how an oxy mask works or viewing emergency exit locations-theyd dont want to consider the fact an accident may happen as they're already too nervous.

The other half of pax travel so much its like driving a car to them and they never look/listen to the cabin safety announcements. Look back down the aisle of a plane on the one of the busy heathrow-dublin redeyes and see how many people in suits are either reading the paper/laptop/sleeping

Fratton Fred

ksimpson wrote: »

"Plucky Brits escape Mick airline terror":D

Actually I would say that most people in Britain probably don't realise Ryanair is actually Irish.

pclancy wrote: »

The other half of pax travel so much its like driving a car to them and they never look/listen to the cabin safety announcements. Look back down the aisle of a plane on the one of the busy heathrow-dublin redeyes and see how many people in suits are either reading the paper/laptop/sleeping

I see the briefing twice a week, I take the view that if I haven't digested the information by now I never will.

I recall an Aer Lingus flight cominginto Dublin once that bounced on the runway, then hit it so hard the oxygen masks dropped out (Quite a common event I believe) half the passengers started to put these on, I think these were the same passengers who then clapped the pilot for landing safely.:rolleyes:

lynchie

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Actually I would say that most people in Britain probably don't realise Ryanair is actually Irish.



I see the briefing twice a week, I take the view that if I haven't digested the information by now I never will.

I recall an Aer Lingus flight cominginto Dublin once that bounced on the runway, then hit it so hard the oxygen masks dropped out (Quite a common event I believe) half the passengers started to put these on, I think these were the same passengers who then clapped the pilot for landing safely.:rolleyes:

I used to fly with Aerlingus to London City a good few years back and we had a few bumpy landings on occasion due to the short runway.. On two occasions the oxygen masks deployed but nobody bothered putting them on as we assumed it was due to rough landing!

Foggy43

wittymoniker wrote: »

hardly think they would have been as far as limoges without cabin pressure and there are no oxygen generators on a 737, there are 2 tanks, one crew and one pax. what work did you do on 737s, washing them?

*Kol* wrote: »

You should have read up two posts before making that smart alec comment.

Pax oxygen bottles on the B737 haven't been used since the B737-200. As was already correctly stated above the passenger oxygen system is by means of individidual chemical oxygen generators in the passenger service unit (PSU) above your head.

What work have you done on B737?? Baggage loading?

Thanks Kol! I haven't worked the B737 since the late 1980's early 90's. Oxygen was an avionic function in BA as the personnel would not be contaminated in oil or grease. With this new 'A' license system it has all changed.

I am just speculating but it looks as though the cabin outflow valve opened fully at 30,000 feet, for some reason.

af666x

probe wrote: »

A diagnosis of the cause of Ryanair passenger admissions to Centre Hospitalier Limoges is a matter for the doctors and specialists on duty at the time in question.

Exactly. You've been spouting on about "lack of oxygen" being a valid reason for your crusade in this thread. Are you a doctor or specialist from Limoges who happened to be on duty at the time?

And as Zyox has pointed out, with about 6 seconds of useful consciousness, any other interaction between passengers and their environment other than "PULL MASK - PUT ON FACE" could and would lead to death.

If someone starts to announce something in multiple languages about cabin decompression (now think about this carefully), aside from the obvious decompression causing ear ache and hearing difficulties, how much longer than 6 seconds would it take to announce this. ***IN MULTIPLE LANGUAGES***

Also, to further poke holes in your "attach a note to the oxygen masks" plan - in the midst of the obvious panic that would ensue from an incident like this, could you get the card, find your relevant language and read the instructions within 6 seconds, thus ensuring your safety?

I honestly believe it's simpletons like you that have led to coffee companies requiring a "CAUTION - CONTENTS MAY BE HOT" instruction on their cups.

If you have anything further and constructive to add to this debate, please do. If not, it was a pleasure to make your acquaintance.