Pro Wrestling Forum And The Issue With rovert

Firewalkwithme

callaway92 wrote: »

The point I am trying to make though is that people make points and when he says to back it up they go all in a frenzy at him..As you said..This is a discussion board and he wants people to discuss the point they make

No it's not that simple. He has a terrible habit of nit-picking and doing his level best to try to find fault with what others write even in the most minute details which might not have been the main thrust of a point. That is just one of the things that gets some peoples backs up.

orestes

validreasoning! wrote: »

No thanks, not that i'm even in the running for it, but my interest in modding PW died a long time ago.

I think the opinion with a good few of the posters in PW is that PW was a fun place to have a discussion. Rovert comes along and saps the fun out of it with his dry attitude and insisting on facts, always the taker of the last word, and generally, coming off as looking like a smarmy git.

Some people can tolerate him, other's can't. Fact of the matter is, nobody should have to tolerate it.

VR!

I think this sums it up quite well tbh

callaway92

Im loving this conversation..Be back in 15 mins to discuss more

Mr.Nice Guy

I feel I should add my two cents here.

I think rovert is a troll. I have used the Ignore feature on him ever since we had quite a heated altercation over a book I commented on which I did not read and he referred to my views as retarded.

rovert wrote:

Your views are retarded as you know nothing about the contents of the book. Yet you make judgments about it. You know nothing about Canadian wrestling history or even Bret's own views of Sky Low Low's place in history.

You are completely uninformed on this issue and add little to the discusssion.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=56411369&postcount=63

After that I just thought 'what's the point dealing with this guy'?

I've seen him be very disdainful towards other people's views on the board and I feel there is a direct correlation between the general decline of the good-natured banter on the board and his sharp, acid-tongued attitude.

I think Fozzy does a terrific job as mod on the forum but I do think rovert has been causing problems. Personally if it was up to me I would have banned him.

I'm not trying to stir things up by saying that. I'm just being honest.

ShawnRaven

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

I think Fozzy does a terrific job as mod on the forum but I do think rovert has been causing problems. Personally if it was up to me I would have banned him.

It always feels weird agreeing with MNG, but it has to be said.
The problem isn't a lack of moderating on PW, the problem is with one poster's attitude.

PW does not need a third mod, as i've already said, bombidol doesn't say a lot, but if topics are there during the day that are out of hand, or shouldn't be there, bombidol shows up for about 2 seconds and said topics have vanished. Action not words, and it works.

Fozzy has probably been the most effective and vocal, and more to the point fair mod PW has had. He'll do everything he can to avoid a banning, and i'm actually surprised that he hasn't snapped already over this. Sound guy as well.

Now if both bombidol and Fozzy feel PW needs a third mod, thats another story altogether.
VR!

Fozzy

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

I think rovert is a troll. I have used the Ignore feature on him ever since we had quite a heated altercation over a book I commented on which I did not read and he referred to my views as retarded.



After that I just thought 'what's the point dealing with this guy'?

To be honest, I agreed with rovert there, but I wouldn't be so blunt about it myself. You didn't know anything about the book and you were criticising Bret's place on the list. The book was written by making a set of criteria and then picking the wrestlers that best fit the criteria. Bret did not fit the criteria used to pick the top Canadian wrestler. I think it's one of those cases where you'd have a much better understanding of it if you read the book

But it's another one of those situations where people have a problem with rovert and I don't think he's done anything wrong. Sometimes I feel like I'm the only one, which is a bit strange

Vince135792003

First off, thanks to Fozzy for putting a thread up on this.

There's no doubt that the pro-wrestling board has deteriorated over the last few months and it has coincided with roverts entry to the board.

I am of the opinion that more times than not he has been the catalyst for many threads that have gone completely off topic. Is he completely to blame? No he isn't but it's impossible to aportion blame because topics go off the point so quickly and spiral into rubbish.

I also think that he has a posting style that while doesn't break the charter rules explicitly, has an edge to it that can come off as being rude and alot of people (good posters in my opinion fatal, charlie mchugh, michael.etc just to name 3) have been driven a way by it.


I think Fozzy does a great job but he's under supported. The wrestling forum is quite active in comparison to other forums and maybe it needs another moderator.

If people believe that's the case, I would be open to doing the job. I'm on quite alot, have enjoyed being part of it and would like it to get back to the fun place it was.

Adam

A very quick point here, but I think there should be a mod on board there that has absolutely no personal interest in wrestling that can take an objective standpoint. I can understand why people would find it grating from examples posted on this thread, but I imagine he isn't bad ALL the time? I'm assuming of course, I've never been in there, nor met rovert anywhere else.

Firewalkwithme

validreasoning! wrote: »

Fozzy has probably been the most effective and vocal, and more to the point fair mod PW has had. He'll do everything he can to avoid a banning, and i'm actually surprised that he hasn't snapped already over this. Sound guy as well.

Now if both bombidol and Fozzy feel PW needs a third mod, thats another story altogether.
VR!

I agree here - in hindsight it's not for me to suggest a new mod might be needed.

My own experience with Fozzy is that, like VR says, he tries to avoid bans. I think this is a good idea generally but you need to know when enough is enough and a ban is appropriate. For example, a new poster once called me a paedophile because I didn't think much of a video he had posted of him and his mate having a wrestling match. According to the charter he should have been banned - in my opinion that is a pretty bad thing to say but Fozzy decided to just warn him against doing it again. I'm just using that as an example to show that I feel things could and should be toughened up quite a bit more.

ShawnRaven

Fozzy wrote: »

But it's another one of those situations where people have a problem with rovert and I don't think he's done anything wrong. Sometimes I feel like I'm the only one, which is a bit strange

I think it could be down to a couple of reasons, 1) you have access to the same resources that he does when it comes to his facts, which not everyone does. And 2) You most likely have a higher tolerance level than a lot of us.

There are times i've agreed and disagreed with rovert. But i just think that at this stage, he's more hassle to deal with and easier to just flee the forum. How we have any posters left over the last few months is beyond me!

As i've said before, it's not what he's saying, it's how he's saying it is what rubs people up the wrong way

VR!

Mr.Nice Guy

Fozzy wrote: »

To be honest, I agreed with rovert there, but I wouldn't be so blunt about it myself. You didn't know anything about the book and you were criticising Bret's place on the list. The book was written by making a set of criteria and then picking the wrestlers that best fit the criteria. Bret did not fit the criteria used to pick the top Canadian wrestler. I think it's one of those cases where you'd have a much better understanding of it if you read the book

But it's another one of those situations where people have a problem with rovert and I don't think he's done anything wrong. Sometimes I feel like I'm the only one, which is a bit strange

I felt the book had no credibility by not having Bret in the list. Bret Hart made the 100 Greatest Canadians list and yet didn't feature as being one of the greatest Candian wrestlers which I felt was quite absurd. Surely you don't have to read a book to form an opinion about the list inside it?

I think the thing with rovert is you get the feeling there's no getting through to him. I've had heated debates with VR for example but we could usually see the other point of view. I sometimes feel with rovert it's not necessarily about a point but simply about the argument itself and how to keep it going for as long as possible.

Firewalkwithme

Mirror wrote: »

A very quick point here, but I think there should be a mod on board there that has absolutely no personal interest in wrestling that can take an objective standpoint. I can understand why people would find it grating from examples posted on this thread, but I imagine he isn't bad ALL the time? I'm assuming of course, I've never been in there, nor met rovert anywhere else.

he's kinda like your sig - about 90%

Minto

Vince135792003 wrote: »

If people believe that's the case, I would be open to doing the job. I'm on quite alot, have enjoyed being part of it and would like it to get back to the fun place it was.

If Vince is throwing his name in the hat, I'm going to do so too. I'd sworn to myself in the past that I'd only volunteer to mod PW if nobody else wanted to, but if the job does become available I think I'd be up for it. I visit PW every few hours during the day and I cringe to think how many times I visit it in the evenings (I have a life, really I do!). I'm like Vince in that I just want to see the fun brought back top the forum.

Ruu_Old

If you need a hand and want someone else to deal with things, just ask. I would nominate Terry, he is a wrasslin' fan, doesn't post there a huge amount but keeps up to date I think.

Adam

Ruu wrote: »

If you need a hand and want someone else to deal with things, just ask. I would nominate Terry, he is a wrasslin' fan, doesn't post there a huge amount but keeps up to date I think.

It doesn't sound like someone who's "involved" is the solution though imo. Mind you, that's not to say Terry wouldn't be objective and do a fine job.

Tricity Bendix

Fozzy wrote: »

I may as well start this thread now. I'm sure there'll be many replies from the people involved

I'm not sure what the best way to explain this is but I'll give it a go. rovert is a poster on the Pro Wrestling board who other posters frequently get annoyed at. A lot of the things that they get annoyed about I don't consider to be wrong. rovert has done some stuff that I have considered to be wrong though, and he's been warned/infracted accordingly

As far as I can tell, people's issue with him started when he began asking for proof when others would post certain things. People would get annoyed because they didn't think that any proof was necessary because it was their opinion. I saw that differently though. I'll try give a typical example:

Johnny posts saying "Kane turning heel will really get people watching now". rovert asks for proof. Johnny says he doesn't need proof, it's his opinion. But the ratings for the shows show that Kane turning heel doesn't really interest the audience as less people are watching him. (I believe that an exchange just like that happened). I see nothing wrong with rovert asking for proof in that instance as he has the facts that suggest otherwise

rovert has only been posting for a few months but he is one of the more informed posters on the board

There are times when people call rovert up on a point where they perceive him to be wrong and a lot of others join in on it, dragging a thread off topic. I believe that rovert gets picked on much more than any others when saying something that people perceive to be wrong or rude

Admittedly I'm not around as much as I used to be when things begin to kick off. Neither am I the best mod around. The other mod, bombidol, is usually only around to deal with reported posts

I don't know what to expect from this thread but as I said, I'm sure there'll be some input

Thought I'd way in with my two cents. To start with, I am one that has both debated with rovert (although usually over minute details) and one that has stood up for him when I felt he was being goaded and bullied by others on the PW Board.

When he started posting, rovert's lack of etiquette rubbed many people up the wrong way. He has gotten better at this, after receiving much criticism. He rarely posts just one line anymore. So I don't think that is really an issue anymore.

However, I personally do not care for rovert's posting style, which seems to me to get very aggressive very fast, and includes insulting others. To back this up, take the Cena injury thread. I have outlined in the thread itself how someone could easily have gotten confused as to what rovert was saying. Rovert thinks that anyone who can't keep up with his wit (which was displayed completely sans smilies, or without any other means of differentiating his 'joke' posts from his 'real' posts) is "dumb". Even when asked repeatedly for clarification, he cannot bring himself to do it. He responds with posts like 'CLUES:' and 'NO ONE NEEDS 12-15 MONTHS TO FILM A FILM!!!'. And personally I don't think Fozzy's intervention was at all helpful. He said that other peole don't get jumped on as much as rovert if they make an unclear point, but this misses the point. I know of no other poster who wouldn't immediately clarify what s/he meant (well, maybe VR!, but I'll be damned if I'm going to try back that up :P). Rovert's style is to attack and insult or get overly defensive.

A second example was from back on the Randy Orton accident thread, where he kinda went mental because I had to gall to disagree slightly with what he said. But he did apologise, so I won't hold that against him forever.

To finish, rovert is without a shadow of a doubt one of the most informed posters on the PW Board. He can also be very funny. However, this doesn't give him carte blanche to be intolerant and rude. He is both sinned against and a sinner when it comes to pedantic bitching and off-topic sniping, which makes this far from a black and white case. He is both a bully and is bullied.

There shouldn't be a need for this thread. We should know how to behave, we should know how to argue with one another without getting petty, and we should be able to interact with one another in a civil manner.

OK.. Here's my thoughts on the situation

Rovert likes wrestling, which i like, but he doesn't like being wrong, which is something i don't like.


He annoyed me when I posted a thread about WWE Anthology II. I was pretty bored that day, and being a fan of WWE's themes, i made a 'wish-list' of sorts. A list of music I'd like to see on the album. Rovert grilled me for picking music that was already on the original Anthology CD, when, in fact, none of the music i picked had appeared on the previous one. I pointed that out to him and he replied with something along the lines of "I'm not gonna be trolled into this" which made no sense and was a ridiculous thing to say.


However, I realised that time that despite what I do or say, he will not admit to being wrong.


I admit that his attitude on the board can be a little (or sometimes very) frustrating. I like to be able to say something, go away, come back, flick through the thread, say something else, and repeat. I despise 'Internet Arguments'. When i got into arguments with Rovert, despite what i say, I'm never right.



Kane is my favourite wrestler. I know not everyone likes him, but i like him. Rovert would be of the opinion that because my favourite wrestler is a wrestler that he dislikes, that i therefore don't know anything about wrestling (paraphrasing from previous arguments).


So I will admit that I won't be sending him any fan mail.


HOWEVER,

I do understand that we're all different and he just likes to be very factual about things. My problem here, as i said, is that he doesn't like to be wrong.


I don't think that its fair that he should be bashed so much because he doesn't fit the boards.ie mould. I understand that most people there enjoy the light discussion that goes on. To be honest, if I were Rovert, i'd just put boards.ie on the bottom of the list of wrestling sites to visit.


I don't think he starts arguments on purpose, but they can be easily avoided (Cena thread for example, instead of a page and a half of smart-ass answers, he coulda just said "Yes, its fake/real") So i do think he should Google around to find a forum with a similar demanding mentality, as boards wrestling section is more of a relaxed place for people people to discuss things.


I also think that just skipping past his comments or ignoring him would be a good idea. I've done it and had no arguments with him recently (although I'm not the most active poster in the world).


A little more reasoning on each side would be better for everyone.

---

I just typed and thats what came out.. If i contradict myself a lot, then so be it, but I'm sure my post gives the general idea of what I'm trying to get across.


Also, I think Fozzy does a good job being El Modo, but I'm not familiar with the other Mod. However, i dont think, in my experience, a third mod is required, just a little more common sense from all members..

callaway92

Deleted User wrote: »

OK.. Here's my thoughts on the situation

Rovert likes wrestling, which i like, but he doesn't like being wrong, which is something i don't like.


He annoyed me when I posted a thread about WWE Anthology II. I was pretty bored that day, and being a fan of WWE's themes, i made a 'wish-list' of sorts. A list of music I'd like to see on the album. Rovert grilled me for picking music that was already on the original Anthology CD, when, in fact, none of the music i picked had appeared on the previous one. I pointed that out to him and he replied with something along the lines of "I'm not gonna be trolled into this" which made no sense and was a ridiculous thing to say.


However, I realised that time that despite what I do or say, he will not admit to being wrong.


I admit that his attitude on the board can be a little (or sometimes very) frustrating. I like to be able to say something, go away, come back, flick through the thread, say something else, and repeat. I despise 'Internet Arguments'. When i got into arguments with Rovert, despite what i say, I'm never right.



Kane is my favourite wrestler. I know not everyone likes him, but i like him. Rovert would be of the opinion that because my favourite wrestler is a wrestler that he dislikes, that i therefore don't know anything about wrestling (paraphrasing from previous arguments).


So I will admit that I won't be sending him any fan mail.


HOWEVER,

I do understand that we're all different and he just likes to be very factual about things. My problem here, as i said, is that he doesn't like to be wrong.


I don't think that its fair that he should be bashed so much because he doesn't fit the boards.ie mould. I understand that most people there enjoy the light discussion that goes on. To be honest, if I were Rovert, i'd just put boards.ie on the bottom of the list of wrestling sites to visit.


I don't think he starts arguments on purpose, but they can be easily avoided (Cena thread for example, instead of a page and a half of smart-ass answers, he coulda just said "Yes, its fake/real") So i do think he should Google around to find a forum with a similar demanding mentality, as boards wrestling section is more of a relaxed place for people people to discuss things.


I also think that just skipping past his comments or ignoring him would be a good idea. I've done it and had no arguments with him recently (although I'm not the most active poster in the world).


A little more reasoning on each side would be better for everyone.

---

I just typed and thats what came out.. If i contradict myself a lot, then so be it, but I'm sure my post gives the general idea of what I'm trying to get across.


Also, I think Fozzy does a good job being El Modo, but I'm not familiar with the other Mod. However, i dont think, in my experience, a third mod is required, just a little more common sense from all members..

Disagree with a lot of this...Couldnt be bothered saying what though..
Id like to here Roverts opinion on this and why he thinks it is ok what he does,,,,Someone should P.M him and tell him to come over here to feedback:D

b0bsquish

Make anchor a mod...then rovvy wont post here

I think he's made a decent contribution to wrasslin board here, There has been alot of new posters in there lately, perhaps a few of them should read the charter and post less crap threads.

Yes all that from a lurker.

Fozzy

I wouldn't be opposed to another mod. There's sometimes stuff that isn't reported that needs some level of dealing with and I can't always read everything on the board

I think that if there were to be another mod, it should probably be someone who's already a mod. I just think that they'd have a better handle on this situation

Bob the Builder

Ruu wrote: »

If you need a hand and want someone else to deal with things, just ask. I would nominate Terry, he is a wrasslin' fan, doesn't post there a huge amount but keeps up to date I think.

Proof?

Oh noes. You is an SMod. /Grabs Coat.

Tricity Bendix

Fozzy wrote: »

To be honest, I agreed with rovert there, but I wouldn't be so blunt about it myself. You didn't know anything about the book and you were criticising Bret's place on the list. The book was written by making a set of criteria and then picking the wrestlers that best fit the criteria. Bret did not fit the criteria used to pick the top Canadian wrestler. I think it's one of those cases where you'd have a much better understanding of it if you read the book

But it's another one of those situations where people have a problem with rovert and I don't think he's done anything wrong. Sometimes I feel like I'm the only one, which is a bit strange

That you don't see anything wrong in what rovert posted makes me sad. To describe another poster's views as 'retarded' is not on, in my opinion, and deserves a warning. If rovert meant it to mean 'not fully formed', he could have said so directly. Rovert is an intelligent guy. He most likely knew what he was doing, using a word like retarded, which could have an alternative (and less offensive) meaning. The fact that you agree with his point shouldn't cloud you to the manner in which he makes it.

callaway92

No need for another mod imo..Fozzy and Bombidol do a fine job no need for more

Bob the Builder

Fozzy wrote: »

I wouldn't be opposed to another mod. There's sometimes stuff that isn't reported that needs some level of dealing with and I can't always read everything on the board

I think that if there were to be another mod, it should probably be someone who's already a mod. I just think that they'd have a better handle on this situation

Yah, another Mod is rarely ever a bad thing, and it could be of benefit here. Three opinions on any situation is better than two.

I would nominate either an after hours mod, or an CMod/SMod really. The job isn't favourable to someone who isn't interested, but they're the people that have the best experience as to how to handle a sticky situation like this.

Minto

nevf wrote: »

Yah, another Mod is rarely ever a bad thing, and it could be of benefit here. Three opinions on any situation is better than two.

I would nominate either an after hours mod, or an CMod/SMod really. The job isn't favourable to someone who isn't interested, but they're the people that have the best experience as to how to handle a sticky situation like this.

I would think that those mods would have enough on their hands as it is and if they don't have an interest in wrestling, then I can't see them devoting much time to the PW forum and we'd be stuck in the same boat as now. I think it should be someone from inside the forum.

Vince135792003

b.ie curious wrote: »

That you don't see anything wrong in what rovert posted makes me sad. To describe another poster's views as 'retarded' is not on, in my opinion, and deserves a warning. If rovert meant it to mean 'not fully formed', he could have said so directly. Rovert is an intelligent guy. He most likely knew what he was doing, using a word like retarded, which could have an alternative (and less offensive) meaning. The fact that you agree with his point shouldn't cloud you to the manner in which he makes it.

Yeah, I'd agree with that fully.

I do think a new mod is needed, regardless of rovert. It's an active forum with alot of new people joining and whoever comes in be it an old or a new mod will need to be as visible as Fozzy is.

Like I said, I would be happy to do it and would hope that I've shown that I'm a fair, positive, level headed contributor to the wrestling board. And to be fair, there are lots of people like this on the wrestling board too.

The main thing is for the board to get back on track though.

callaway92

callaway92 wrote: »

No need for another mod imo..Fozzy and Bombidol do a fine job no need for more

I call for Rovert to be a mod

I was only messin you know..P.S..Just noticed im banned from P.W for 5 days

True True haha

Rovert doesnt take things off topic it is the other people

Fair enough that is quiet annoying actually.

Im loving this conversation..Be back in 15 mins to discuss more

Disagree with a lot of this...Couldnt be bothered saying what though..

I'm not trying to be a prick... But am I the only one that thinks he's spamming the hell out of this thread?




***EDIT***



Whilst im not in favor of another mod, and I do like the way Fozzy is friendly to people and human, and not a one-man ban machine, if there is going to be another mod, i think it should be someone from within the Pro wrestling board.

Firewalkwithme

I don't remember anyone suggesting that another moderator was needed for the PW forum before rovert came along.

So what's really needed - a new mod or someone to tell rovert to change his ways?

callaway92

No Im not..Im saying its a very interesting thread..Just because I disagree with your point doesnt mean you need to get p'd off bud
This is for KKV

Bob the Builder

Minto wrote: »

I would think that those mods would have enough on their hands as it is and if they don't have an interest in wrestling, then I can't see them devoting much time to the PW forum and we'd be stuck in the same boat as now. I think it should be someone from inside the forum.

Oh Noes. If you elevate someone inside the forum to moderatorship - No matter how hard they try, they will bring their own bias with them. Which I don't see as a practical solution either.