Abortion- Right or Wrong

Dragan

CDfm wrote: »

I know one woman very well (or I used to) who is so psychologically damaged by her abortion that she is regularily hospitalised. Given the abortion is 13 years back she has steadily declined - her career is gone -she drinks too much has bad relationships. Ive known her for 25 years but would never have predicted that for her. Maybe thats why I dont like this dismissed with statistics.

A friend of mine is a 37 year old woman. She used to have a career in Event Management. A massive high stress job. In her time she was the person behind events for visiting heads of state, for religious figures, for incredibly famous actors and actress etc.

She had a nervous breakdown about 5 years ago and is now a shell of herself. This was caused by the psychological and emotional stress of her job.

Should me make Event Management illegal because of that or should we accept the fact that people make choices, at the time hopefully the best choices they can and these may or may not have an impact on us further down the road.

CDfm

plus two people arguing - one who believes in the spirit and one who does not, are going to have serious problems because they don't have a common ground on the issue.

I'd like to think there is some sort of spirit or spark in us too - but I don't really believe there is (but I am a bit of a cynic - but Im optimistic; hope for the best, expect the worst! )

[/quote]

So leave souls etc to others - I for one am not offended by the odd anti- religous smart comment

BTW - with all this optimism may I now call you Sunny Jim:rolleyes:

CDfm

Dragan wrote: »

A friend of mine is a 37 year old woman. She used to have a career in Event Management. A massive high stress job. In her time she was the person behind events for visiting heads of state, for religious figures, for incredibly famous actors and actress etc.

She had a nervous breakdown about 5 years ago and is now a shell of herself. This was caused by the psychological and emotional stress of her job.

Should me make Event Management illegal because of that or should we accept the fact that people make choices, at the time hopefully the best choices they can and these may or may not have an impact on us further down the road.

sorry about your friend.Event management is a very high stress and exacting career. I hope she recovers or finds something new she can excel in.

Of course we should not make event management illegal.

The point I was making was that in my - albeit limited - experience that a few sessions with a councellor saying " you know how good you felt when you had your abortion etc" might work for some but not for all.

I know it didnt for my friend - so rather than reject whats being said out of hand - I asked for opinions.I am making a point but I dont have any smug answer
.

eveie

dragon you took me up wrong and i apologies for taking you up wrong. idont have a very good way with words, wasnt blessed with the best vocab.
i have also worked alot with disabled children and adults, ive seen many different conditions, and yes i have seen children and adults who wouldnt have the capicity of thought like a normal healthy person does.. i am in no way saying they are in any way less human, im just stating this point as you mentioned the capicity of thought.
just wondring dragon when would you consider it not ok to abort, at what stage in the pregnancy? and why?
the unborn baby can feel pain, can dream, and it hass been proven over and over again, there are famous images of a child going through an abortion and the child is moving away from the needle. operations are beomeing more popular for unborn children with such disibilities as spina bifida, these children have to be sadated, yet the same child can still be aborted? surely you think thats wrong?

CDfm

eveie wrote: »

dragon are you saying that this "soul" or "spirit" doesnt exist until the child is born? that just because it is outside of the womb that suddenly the child has this "soul" or "spirit" because as you obviuosly know a child can be born 3 months premature and so on, so is this only created when the child is born? also what about children who are born with serious mental disibilities? many of them do not have the capacity of thought does that make them not worthy of the tag "human"? ive seen a very very premanture baby who didnt survive, but i know the child was human, i know it had that soul or spirit or what ever you wish to call it. imagine if i turned round to this childs parents and tapped them on the back and said "ah dont worry sure its really not human"

that is a good point eevie.

this will go against some of my own beliefs but years back as a student I did some work with the mentally handicapped at a care home/training center with a christian ethos. You would need that kind of optimism to make a career of it I think.

A parent came to me one day and said I shouldnt think this I know I believe my daughter should be a gift from God etc so I should be thankful she is happy- but I hope she dies before I do. So who was going to bring her jaffa cakes etc every week!

I often thought what would I do - I cant say with any certainty what I would do. If a child were to be born disabled would I take the abortion route.

eveie

what im trying to say is people pick and choose when to call a child a child, a baby a baby, as i said a women can abort a "clump of cells" at 12 weeks yet 2 years later be 12 weeks pregnant with her "first child" now that is what bugs me big time, you cannot pick and choose when a life is viable, you cannot play "God" (im not saying that from a religious view point) no one has the right to say when life begins or ends. what women need t understand is that yes its their body that is carrying this child but the child is a seperate enitity to them, if they can still abort knowing or at least realising this then theres not much else i can say really.
im well aware that abortion has been going on for hundreds of years, but so has murder it doesnt make it right.
its annoying that so many pro-choice people believe that anyone against abortion or pro-life is cold hearted and doesnt care for the women. i have compassion for any pregnant women, but i also have compassion for the unborn and because they are the voiceless ones i feel i need to speak out on this, surley that canot be considered cold hearted. i value every being as an individual, i value all life and if theres one thing i cannot abide is the vunerable been taken advantage off, weather they be unborn, disabled or elderly

CDfm

I value life too and probably would be described as pro-life.

But some of the points are made by pro-abortionist posters whose views I dont nesscessarily agree with are worth an airing.

Being so close to the UK anyone who wants an abortion can get one. Its not like we have an underground bunch of women like carlybabe1 running a network with false passports and travel docs.

I am just pointing out because I havent been thru a situation with a mentally handicapped child I dont know how I would react but I expect I would consider abortion - it would be a real moral dilemma. No escaping it the issue was raised by you and I have addressed it.

eveie

cdfm i never raised the issue of keeping a disabled child, i was just responding to a post dragon made where he talked about the capicity of thought.
but since youve brought it up, it is without a doubt a very difficult thing for any family, i have personal experience with this issue, im also involved with a few groups who help out familys with disabled children. i have seen the joy these kids bring to their family and ive seen the pain, many of them do not have a long life expectancy, but the feeling you get from caring for a disabled child that is so vunerable is amazing, theydont look for materilistic objects they just want to be loved. we cannot say that x's life is less worthy because he/she doesnt have the capicity to look after itself. these children truely are gifts they completley change a familys dynamic, but it makes people value life more. im rambleing

CDfm

eveie wrote: »

cdfm i never raised the issue of keeping a disabled child, i was just responding to a post dragon made where he talked about the capicity of thought.
but since youve brought it up, it is without a doubt a very difficult thing for any family, i have personal experience with this issue, im also involved with a few groups who help out familys with disabled children. i have seen the joy these kids bring to their family and ive seen the pain, many of them do not have a long life expectancy, but the feeling you get from caring for a disabled child that is so vunerable is amazing, theydont look for materilistic objects they just want to be loved. we cannot say that x's life is less worthy because he/she doesnt have the capicity to look after itself. these children truely are gifts they completley change a familys dynamic, but it makes people value life more. im rambleing

Its an uncomfortable issue - anyway - I am sure Dragan wont mind commenting on this.

After all he is a ........

Dragan

eveie wrote: »

just wondring dragon when would you consider it not ok to abort, at what stage in the pregnancy? and why?
the unborn baby can feel pain, can dream, and it hass been proven over and over again, there are famous images of a child going through an abortion and the child is moving away from the needle. operations are beomeing more popular for unborn children with such disibilities as spina bifida, these children have to be sadated, yet the same child can still be aborted? surely you think thats wrong?

I imagine in the case of operations it would be insane to operate on an unsadated patient, wether they could feel pain or not. Any possible movement could be a disaster.

As i said yesterday ( i think! ) i would be fine with first Trimester abortions, after that i would have some issue with the fact that a CNS ( central nervous system ) is developing. Before this i do not consider it possible to feel pain simple because it is the central nervous system that takes pain or pleasure responses to and from the brain.

As for the child moving away from the needle, if you put a single cell ogranism on a slide under a microscope and poke it with a needle it will try and move away.

Dragan

CDfm wrote: »

After all he is a ........

Please, expand on this.

Zulu

Dragan wrote: »

Please, expand on this.

...articulate person!

(Take it to after hours )

CDfm

Dragan wrote: »

Please, expand on this.

That was an attempt at humour from a previous post. No offense intended. Me being bold.

What I meant was it within the definitions discussed and wondered did it fit in within the scope or was it a seperate point from the exchange between you and Eevie.

You are more articulate and precise at this sort of thing than I am. I do not always agree with your reasoning and conclusion. Great thread- well moderated too.

tallaght01

seamus wrote: »

I'm not sure. Simply being emotive about an issue can often provoke emotional responses in another. That is, someone who regards it as nothing more than a ball of cells, is by definition likely to be emotionally detached from the situation and when discussing the issue is likely to be frank, cold and rational about it.

Someone who regards it as a life is likely to discuss it with more passion and emotiveness. Whether we like it or not, we naturally tend to favour arguments which are made passionately and emotionally above ones which are made without said passion and emotion. We tend to feel that a point of view must somehow carry more weight if the person making it seems to feel very very strongly about it.

I don't disagree that there are many women who will feel an emotional attachment to what's growing, without any external influences. But there are equally plenty of other women with no emotional attachment one way or another to it, who can be influenced and swayed into guilt. Not guilt so much because of what they believe, but because of what they've been convinced the community believes.

How many women feel no guilt about the act apart from what they think others will say about them?

Are you arguing that those of us who are against abortion should keep it quiet, in case those who have abortions won't feel guilt??

Is that the point you're making?

Nevyn

eveie wrote: »

the unborn baby can feel pain, can dream, and it hass been proven over and over again, there are famous images of a child going through an abortion and the child is moving away from the needle. operations are beomeing more popular for unborn children with such disibilities as spina bifida, these children have to be sadated, yet the same child can still be aborted? surely you think thats wrong?

And you know what, women still choose abortion.
I have seen it time and again they know that there is a child growing inside them and if they endured the pregnancy it would be born but they still do not want that and they want an abortion and that is what is boils down to.

I have see 2 incredibly pro life women change their tune when in one case it was them and in the other it was their daughter.

Zulu

Thaedydal wrote: »

I have see 2 incredibly pro life women change their tune when in one case it was them and in the other it was their daughter.

That doesn't really validate any point in this debate. It merely highlights what could be perceived as questionable areas of their character

Dragan

Zulu wrote: »

That doesn't really validate any point in this debate. It merely highlights what could be perceived as questionable areas of their character

Indeed. Because suddenly being faced with a reality should never be allowed to change your stance on the theory.

In other words,

What?

eveie

so basically these women know that they are aborting a child yet dont mind doing it? thedydal with all due respect just because thousands of women make this choice does not make it right, with that logic you can argue that domestic abuse is right because thousand commit it. you cannot say something is right based on how many people do it. it is illegal to abort in this country i really hope it stays that way. the number of women travelling from here to england to have an abortion has dropped and again i hope it continues to do so.
i only read an article yesterday where an 18 yr old has had 4 abortions, yet never once well actually only on the last occassion used contraception, i mean wtf!!!??? in some way this thread is pointless as none of us are going to change our views and i think ive argued the same point over and over again but there are plenty of people who look at these threads without posting so maybe their gaining information from whatever side of the fence their on

Zulu

Dragan wrote: »

Indeed. Because suddenly being faced with a reality should never be allowed to change your stance on the theory.

I didn't say that.
I don't misquote you, you could at least have the courtesy to do the same.

However I do find it interesting that someone who was "incredibly pro life" would encourage their own daughter to kill a child (if they were "incredibly pro life", I'm assuming they'd view the foetus as a child) for convenience.

However we don't have a clue as to the circumstances - they could have been life threatening to the mother for all we know at this point. So the comment doesn't really add anything to the debate, except....

Dragan

eveie wrote: »

the number of women travelling from here to england to have an abortion has dropped and again i hope it continues to do so.

I think we can all agree with that one Eveie.

Dragan

Zulu wrote: »

I didn't say that.
I don't misquote you, you could at least have the courtesy to do the same.

Zulu,

i have no desire to get into the multi quote back and forth that some of my fellow posters enjoy. It's not my style. You posted something, i posted something, you clarified. It's about that simple.

But put something on a forum and I guess we cannot be surprised if people read something different from what was intended.

No offence was meant at all and thank you for clarifying.

Nevyn

eveie wrote: »

so basically these women know that they are aborting a child yet dont mind doing it? thedydal with all due respect just because thousands of women make this choice does not make it right, with that logic you can argue that domestic abuse is right because thousand commit it.

I get that you think an abortion is an act of violence against a proto person and is tantamount to murder and is an act of harm against the woman.

I disagree and think that you don't know enough about domestic abuse.

Being a realist means that abortion has been around for thousands of years and will most likly be for as long as we have unplanned and unwanted pregnancies.

eveie wrote: »

you cannot say something is right based on how many people do it. it is illegal to abort in this country i really hope it stays that way. the number of women travelling from here to england to have an abortion has dropped and again i hope it continues to do so.

That cos they are going to Holland, Belgium, Sweden, Denmark and other countries that they can get cheap flights to which don't tender this country with their records.

eveie wrote: »

i only read an article yesterday where an 18 yr old has had 4 abortions, yet never once well actually only on the last occassion used contraception, i mean wtf!!!???

I would like to think that she was failed by parents, family , school ect that she was never educated as to how her body works, the risks in having sex and how contraception works.

But I must admit and many people may think me a bad bitch for thinking and saying so, there is a part of me that thinks if she is that dumb, neglectfull
and careless just as well she has not managed to have a child.

eveie wrote: »

in some way this thread is pointless as none of us are going to change our views and i think ive argued the same point over and over again but there are plenty of people who look at these threads without posting so maybe their gaining information from whatever side of the fence their on

Yes the more people informed the better, the more people thinking what should we be doing to prevent women having to make that choice the better,
maybe then we will get a lobby of people who will push for comprehensive sex and sexual heath education and better access to contraception.

eveie

110% agree with you thedydal (for once) miracles do happen
we need proper comprehensive sex ed, we need to get away from this whole "save yourself" thing.

on the domestic abuse front, i wasnt comparing domestic abuse to abortion per se what i was saying was just becasue thousands of people have abortions does not make it right, abortion will always be around im not dumb but i will do everything i can to prevent it becoming legal in this country.
a number of years ago i use to do alot of fox hunting, im a huge animal lover and tried to defend this "sport" using basically the same argument thats its been round for hundreds of years, although i even realised that it was a crap argument

Zulu

Dragan wrote: »

i have no desire to get into...
No offence was meant at all and thank you for clarifying.

Ney bother!

nacho libre

tallaght01 wrote: »

No, you're not forcing the pregnancy on her. You're denying her an abortion.

In my opinion anyway. Though I'm sure we could get bogged down with the semantics.

Like, should we let a woman terminate her pregnancy in any way she feels fit? By not doing that are we forcing pregnancy on her?

Let's not take the responsibility for the pregnancy away from those who were actually responsible for it.

indeed.
If people insist on bringing up the possession canard as a defense to act unilaterally without consulation, then the proper time for a woman to exercise full control over her reproductive rights should happen before a pregnancy occurs, not after.
It's really something that women (and the men who love them but want to bail on responsibility) in 2008 are still so dependent on abortion. A woman has the right to not be a mother, but rights and responsibility go hand in hand. It's her reproductive responsibility not to create the life in the first place. I've always been curious about what percentage of abortions are because of actual emergencies, versus men and woman who couldn't control their bodily functions and just want to get off the hook. in this day and age, there really isn't an excuse for having an unexpected/unwanted pregnancy- unless it's rape or incest. of course even in unexpected cases such as these why should the unborn pay the ultimate price?
It seems to me everyone is actually pro-life. It's just people differ in their opinion on whose life qualifies as relevant.

nacho libre

CDfm wrote: »

I dont think its possible to draw such a line - the point is you believe in life or you dont.

your definition is the central nervous system others are when consciousness or personal awareness develops or when a baby/being is capable of independent survival outside the womb

you get the same problem with comas and permanent vegetative state - you have no way of knowing with certainty about the quality of life or when a person can wake up.

That said I am not unsympathetic to the issue -its part of modern life - Im a divorced dad and was once asked by a gf who do you love more them or me. The kids won. Her needs vs their dependance. So children are life changing.

It has also affected my work choices - I could live and work abroad - would love to - but....

I could take the kids on full time no probs .....but the court system and constitution put women first and I accept that. Thems the breaks.

So by all means people can make the decision to be child free and there are loads of contraceptive devices out there to allow people to make free love as much as they like, have multiple partners and join swingers clubs. No probs there from me with any of that.

The problem for me is someone gets pregnant and says I want my old life back and suddenly decides or Iwant it all and I cant have it so its someone elses fault.They still want it all and have been too lazy or irresponsible to use any of the opportunities of contraception available including the morning after pill - which Im not against well BOO HOO.

You still have adoption but I hear the bleeding heart brigade say its emotionally traumatic or I will loose my career/promotion or my figure or whatever or we loose our relationship because the father doesnt want to be a dad.He will leave me cause he doesnt want kids ( well you picked a real Mr Wonderful there babe!). The thing is we dont kill our work colleagues if we get passed over for promotion.

So by my thinking given all the opportunities not to get pregnant you want someone like me to change my mind and give you the right to kill a child no chance. Its a matter of conscience and my conscience says no (special circumstances for the safety of the health of the mum accepted)

So Im a guy and telling you what to do with your body. No Im not - you have already decided that all by yourself. Im just a bystander.Its the baby Im talking about not you. You are a grown up but we protect children cause they need protection.

LIke the death penalty if you get it wrong there is no going back. Its against my conscience.Take a plane to England if you want just dont expect any sympathy from me or me to agree with your decision.

Just to say this is a great post. I had not seen this post before i made mine. So apologies for repeating what has already being said.

eveie

cdfm must agree fantastic honest post, i really wish more people were of this belief.

carlybabe1

indeed.
If people insist on bringing up the possession canard as a defense to act unilaterally without consulation, then the proper time for a woman to exercise full control over her reproductive rights should happen before a pregnancy occurs, not after.
It's really something that women (and the men who love them but want to bail on responsibility) in 2008 are still so dependent on abortion. A woman has the right to not be a mother, but rights and responsibility go hand in hand. It's her reproductive responsibility not to create the life in the first place. I've always been curious about what percentage of abortions are because of actual emergencies, versus men and woman who couldn't control their bodily functions and just want to get off the hook. in this day and age, there really isn't an excuse for having an unexpected/unwanted pregnancy- unless it's rape or incest.

I see, never had a condom burst then? Hope you never dont either, theres nothin like the smack of findin yourself in the one situation you preached about to alleviate the smugness..

Zulu

carlybabe1 wrote: »

I see, never had a condom burst then? Hope you never dont either, theres nothin like the smack of findin yourself in the one situation you preached about to alleviate the smugness..

a person who's sexually active should really consider complementary contraception. If a condom split while you were on the pill, say, it'd be VERY unfortunate to conceive. If you were caught out, there's always the morning after pill.

Although, I suppose, if you couldn't give a tupenny fuck I suppose...




By the by, you can converse with out insulting people or implying that they are smug. Can't you?

carlybabe1

CDfm wrote: »

I value life too and probably would be described as pro-life.

But some of the points are made by pro-abortionist posters whose views I dont nesscessarily agree with are worth an airing.

Being so close to the UK anyone who wants an abortion can get one. Its not like we have an underground bunch of women like carlybabe1 running a network with false passports and travel docs.

:D:D:D Hey no worries Cdfm, I do wat i can... If ye need anythin, dont hesitate to pm me bud, ill help ye out, an I swear I wont post it on this thread :D:D:D

eveie

carlybabe if you are so sure about not wanted to become pregnant then i would think you or someone in that position would be on the pill as weel as using a condom!!!!! you come across very obnoctous(sorry my spelling isnt great) and angry in your posts!
also just reading through few post i saw you stated
"no uterus, no opinion" how dare you say such a thing, grow up, the thing is when it comes down to a vote mens opinions will count so boo hoo for you

carlybabe1

Zulu wrote: »

a person who's sexually active should really consider complementary contraception. If a condom split while you were on the pill, say, it'd be VERY unfortunate to conceive. If you were caught out, there's always the morning after pill.

Although, I suppose, if you couldn't give a tupenny fuck I suppose...




By the by, you can converse with out insulting people or implying that they are smug. Can't you?

My your funny aren't you:D:D the whole smug thng?? hello pot, heres the kettle, that wasn't smugness on my part, it was sarcasm. By the by, I was on the pill, and the condom burst, and I was very "unfortunate" and I now have a five year old son....So if you've nothin constructive to add to the post, go else where and post your jibes.... preferably on a post you actually know somethin about

eveie

carlybabe are you trying to make zulu feel bad that you have a son?
im delighted youve been graced with the gift of a child

Zulu

carlybabe1 wrote: »

My your funny aren't you:D:D the whole smug thng?? hello pot, heres the kettle, that wasn't smugness on my part, it was sarcasm.

Frankly I don't care what you call it, it's rude.

By the by, I was on the pill, and the condom burst, and I was very "unfortunate" and I now have a five year old son....

Well you certainly were VERY VERY unfortunate to concieve - what are the odds on that one, eh? So, as a mother, you decided not to travel to the UK - good for you.
I'd imagine you don't regret that decision now, do you???

So if you've nothin constructive to add to the post, go else where and post your jibes

I think you'll find you are being the abrasive one here carlybabe.

preferably on a post you actually know somethin about

My opinion is as valid as yours. Suck it up.

carlybabe1

eveie wrote: »

carlybabe if you are so sure about not wanted to become pregnant then i would think you or someone in that position would be on the pill as weel as using a condom!!!!!

Eh I was hardly discussing my methods of contraception now was I, why dont you read the post agian before you jump in...my point was that people do use contraception and still get caught. As Ive said before, contraception, like people is not infallible.

you come across very obnoctous(sorry my spelling isnt great) and angry in your posts!

Your right, but then your spelling hasn't been great all through the posts, ( now THATS obnoxious)

also just reading through few post i saw you stated
"no uterus, no opinion" how dare you say such a thing, grow up, the thing is when it comes down to a vote mens opinions will count so boo hoo for you

Yes THat was three days ago at least so well done for keeping up with the thread, pity you didnt read it in context, or you would have seen that it was a joke.....or maybe we shouldnt have a sense of humour in this thread.... I know, why dont you post to a mod again the way you did when another poster wasnt being serious enough for you, now THATS real mature

carlybabe1

Zulu wrote: »

Frankly I don't care what you call it, it's rude.

you are hardly in a position to call anyone rude

I think you'll find you are being the abrasive one here carlybabe

.


yes you're right, the phrase taste of ones own medicine comes to mind...

My opinion is as valid as yours. Suck it up.

mmm thats a matter of opinion,

eveie

i dont get annoyed too easilt but you REALLY REALLY piss me off!
ALOT of women do not use contraception properly, are you sure you knew how to use it?
you sound like a spoilt little wagon wheel! get over yourself and quick
youve time and time again posted "facts" that were not true and you refused to retract them! so yes i should be reporting you! or is it ok if i tell every women that if she has an abortion she'l die

Nevyn

I do know how to use contaception and my first born was concived despite the correct use of the oral contraceptive pill and condoms, it happens.
Thankfully I was finished college and had a good job so we became a family other wise I would have chosen to end the pregnancy.

carlybabe1

eveie wrote: »

i dont get annoyed too easilt but you REALLY REALLY piss me off!

Well im sorry miss eveie, i didnt mean to offend :rolleyes:

ALOT of women do not use contraception properly, are you sure you knew how to use it?

Now what kind of question is that to ask a person

you sound like a spoilt little wagon wheel! get over yourself and quick

Very mature :rolleyes: what happens if im too slow????

youve time and time again posted "facts" that were not true and you refused to retract them!

Any facts ive posted have come from medical journals, Im not stupid, I wouldnt claim to know something that i really dont so I'll throw it back to ye evie, if you can prove my facts are wrong, by all means go right ahead, I wont be retracting any facts that i've posted....

so yes i should be reporting you! or is it ok if i tell every women that if she has an abortion she'l die

Go right ahead, you cant get someone banned cause you cant bully them into seeing your point of view, as for posting stuff thats untrue, you did, you claimed seeing "real " photos of a feotus trying to move away from an abortion needle, how do you know its not a doctored photo??? cause last I heard thats what the maniacs outside abortion clinics were usin

Zulu

Thaedydal wrote: »

I do know how to use contaception and my first born was concived despite the correct use of the oral contraceptive pill and condoms, it happens.
Thankfully I was finished college and had a good job so we became a family other wise I would have chosen to end the pregnancy.

Do you regret your decision to have gone through with the pregnacy?

To be honest, all you are proving is that accidents can happen. I don't think anyone has denied that they can happen, so what are you hoping to establish/prove?

kizzyr

eveie wrote: »

110% agree with you thedydal (for once) miracles do happen
we need proper comprehensive sex ed, we need to get away from this whole "save yourself" thing.

on the domestic abuse front, i wasnt comparing domestic abuse to abortion per se what i was saying was just becasue thousands of people have abortions does not make it right, abortion will always be around im not dumb but i will do everything i can to prevent it becoming legal in this country.
a number of years ago i use to do alot of fox hunting, im a huge animal lover and tried to defend this "sport" using basically the same argument thats its been round for hundreds of years, although i even realised that it was a crap argument

Actually it is a common misconception (no pun intended:):)) that abortion is illegal in Ireland. It is actually legally available when there is a clear risk to the life of the expectant mother as distinct from her health.

CDfm

eveie wrote: »

110% agree with you thedydal (for once) miracles do happen
we need proper comprehensive sex ed, we need to get away from this whole "save yourself" thing.

I am all for sex education but for everyones sake leaving it to the Schools and department of education is one of the Dumbest ideas since the thermal underwear thong.

A proposal a couple of years back was the controvercial Exploring Masculinities Programme for boys where a lot of it contained stuff about positive homosexual material, Iron John and stereotyped male abuser stuff. Now teenage boys and the word gay.:D:D:DNeed I say more.

Education is the parents responsibility not the schools and under the constitution its the parents duty to educate. All this PC coy stuff is being taught in schools by the same people that do such a mind-numbing job with say Irish.I have 2 teenagers and Ive made sure they know the score.Most parents dont.

If Sex Education is to be taught in schools it needs to be straight up and a bit more Jerry Springer and Maury than Oprah.

I am sure Eevie you would have strong views on it and probably Carlybabe too. I would like to see a more down and dirty approach less PC approach

eveie

carlbabe you claimed that even if a women has a miscarriage she has to go full term with the pregnancy, thats one "fact" thats isnt true, it is impossible for a women to go "full term" with a miscarried baby anyone women that miscarries will have to have the miscarried baby removed.
cdfm i completely agree that sex ed should be down to the parents but the sad thing is some parents are still too embarrassed to talk to their children about it, i was lucky because my mother took a very straight forward approach to it and to this day she'l still come out with things, my parents did not want a teacher telling about these things but many parents prefer to leave it to schools. i remember in 5th yr(i moved schools in 3 rd and in my previous school we had sex ed in 2nd yr) there were already 3 girls who were pregnant and we got a talk on saving yourself for marraige, those 3 girls were sitting in that room having to listen to this nonsense thats not practical advise in this day and age,im not saying that if they had of recieved comprehensive sex ed at a younger age that they wouldnt have become pregnant but you never know

carlybabe1

eveie wrote: »

carlbabe you claimed that even if a women has a miscarriage she has to go full term with the pregnancy, thats one "fact" thats isnt true, it is impossible for a women to go "full term" with a miscarried baby anyone women that miscarries will have to have the miscarried baby removed.

Seriously eveie, stop misquotin me to bolster your argument, you come across as though you have no real basis for your argument, and makes you look immature, and well pathetic. I said in some instances, not all, and it is true... seriously, where do ye get your encyclopedic knowledge :rolleyes:

Zulu

carlybabe, can you ease up on the personal insults please? Some of us would like to discuss the topic and do so in a civil manner.

MiCr0

As nothing but insults are being posted here, this thread is now closed.
Any future posts like we've seen above will result in bans.

Please try and discuss the topic, and not the user