Mark Millar uses spamming campaigns to promote his comics

You sir are a twat.

If you'd bothered to read the criticism posted here you would see that people are not attacking Millar but the way in which he conducts business. Offering a reward in exchange for someone spamming other forum boards excluding his own is a cheap way of drumming up consumer recognition for what is in effect yet another of poorly written, juvenile excuses for a comic book.

I think it was Fysch who mentioned Warren Ellis's forum board and having posted there in the past it was a thoroughly enjoyable experience. Ellis seems to be a genuinely decent guy and appreciative of comments and criticisms where as Millar's forum seem to exist solely to massage his ever expanding ego. Read through any thread on there and it's little more than self indulgent masterbation.

Fysh

I did wonder whether you'd ever wander by these parts again, John, so I will attempt to respond to your points. Before that, however, I'll clarify that any more abusive posts from you towards anyone in this forum will get you a week-long ban. (Please note that this warning extends to anyone else who wants to be abusive; let's try and keep it polite).

1) My behaviour on Millarworld wasn't particularly polite or what I would consider normal form. I've already discussed this via PM with Patrick A, the mod there who infracted my account, and we've come to an understanding. The facts having now been clarified, I realise I was wrong when I said Mark hadn't followed up on the previous campaign; that was a judgement call I made having not been able to see the issue itself, and I'll admit that the reason I assumed he hadn't followed it up is Millar's tendency to post about every single thing that he does. As regarding the nature of Millarworld itself, it's not to my taste as a discussion fora although I've been lurking there for a good while as a way to keep up with how people feel about what's going on in mainstream comics. (I've discussed the reasons that the place isn't to my taste in th aforementioned PMs exchanged with Patrick A; I can forward these to you if you want to see what they are, but given the nature of them I suspect you would disagree and I already accept that it's unlikely they could be easily addressed in any case).

2) Point 1) above does not change the fact that Mark was openly endorsing people posting unsolicited advertising on as many fora as possible, which IMO puts him in the same category as those guys selling penis pills via bulk email. As a mod, part of your job probably involves cleaning this stuff up, so I can't imagine why you could possibly defend this action just because it's Millar asking other people to do it. (Note: Millar HIMSELF joining other fora to post about it and answering questions about it would be a completely different matter).
Millar has openly posted about his concerns that he works in an industry that "can't afford advertising outside of their own magazines", but he co-owns the rights to Wanted, the film of which recently made over 50 million dollars. As such I refuse to believe he couldn't afford to fund a legitimate advertising campaign for Kick-Ass; whether or not he would want to is another matter entirely and not one I could comment on. The current subject line is a tongue-in-cheek response to discovering that this thread was started as part of a spam campaign.

3) We've recently added a Comic Production sub-forum because people here are interested in getting involved in making comics. Whether that means supporting His Mack-Daddyness Bob Byrne or the newcomers like livingtargets who are making their first go at comics, there are plenty of people here who support creators. That does not mean we have to support inconsiderate and ignorant promotional tactics from any creator, but especially not from someone who's already one of the biggest names in the field. Whether or not Millar's work is to people's taste is an individual concern, but I don't think there's anyone here who denies that he is an extremely successful writer. But then being good doesn't necessarily mean being popular, and vice versa.

4) It saddens me to see you resort to cheap tactics like asking whether my webcomic has been optioned for film rights, because it effectively means you're waving around a big sign saying that you're either extremely upset at the time of posting (which means you should sit down, have a cup of tea, rethink your post and then come back to it) or you genuinely haven't got a better argument to post against me. I could be (and quite possibly am in the eyes of some) the worst and hackiest cartoonists ever to abuse the format - that doesn't mean I can't have an opinion on the work of more established cartoonists. A long-standing rule on boards is "hate the post not the poster" - so if you genuinely think that I'm mistaken in my summary of Millar's approach to promoting is comic, take the time to explain why.

5) While forming an opinion of someone based only on what you see of them on an internet forum where they openly admit they share their login with several other people is probably not a very good idea, I must admit that I can see where Jack B Badd would perceive Millar and yourself to have similarities. Whether being liked by everyone on the internet should be a remotely serious concern for anyone who has business interests in a field whose fandom has a presence on the net is an individual and subjective decision, but I suspect life is a lot easier if you choose not to care about it.

Regards,
Kyle

Jack B. Badd

J Hendrick wrote: »

Who the **** do you think you are?

Seriously, I'm not getting involved in the discussion about this book, but at least I post here using my own name and I don't hide behind a fake name.

If you feel like letting me know you can PM me or if you've got any balls at all you can post it here ****o.

Marquess of Queensberry rules ok by you?

Who do I think I am? I'm Jo Randomer: Comics Fan, who's still waiting for her somewhat inconvenient questions to be answered... Remember?

I don't write, draw, edit, produce or sell comics. I read them. I'm one of the people that Mark Millar is (presumably) trying to sell his comic to. My opinion is as valid as any other member of his potential audience and in my opinion having a whinge at someone you perceive as a threat is bad PR, whether it's you or Millar doing the whinging.

As for demanding my name, the only reason I can think for you doing that is attempted intimidation. Millarworld may operate a policy of having "real" usernames but boards.ie doesn't and I'm happy with that. I'm under no obligation to provide it (especially when it's demanded so impolitely). I'm by no means as "high profile" as either yourself or Millar so my real name isn't going to add any weight to my online arguments anyway.
However, should I run into you at a con or elsewhere, I'll quite happily introduce myself (I'm sure you'll announce yourself...). We can sit down over a pint and discuss the finer points of why I consider both your and Millar's grandstanding to be unprofessional.


As an aside and keeping with the topic of this thread, I would like to coherently register my disapproval of the spam campaign instigated at Mark Millar's behest. As someone who has read and enjoyed some of his previous work, it's disappointing to see one of the most famous names in the comics industry resorting to such obnoxious tactics as encouraging his fans to spam other websites as a way to promote his work. Commonly associated with illegal drug peddlers and fake penis-extension merchants, spam is generally considered contrary to most Netiquette conventions.

RFC 1855: Netiquette Guidelines wrote:

Advertising is welcomed on some lists and Newsgroups, and abhorred on others! This is another example of knowing your audience before you post. Unsolicited advertising which is completely off-topic will most certainly guarantee that you get a lot of hate mail.

As I'm sure the moderators of Millarworld are aware, unsolicited advertising (spam) is the bane of any functional online discussion forum and contributes significantly to the overheads of maintaining such fora. Ultimately, the use of spam as a (misguided) advertising method for any professional product is counter-productive and irritating to most of its intended audience. It displays a lack of understanding or disregard of the fundamental aspects of internet usage, in this case exploitation of a devoted fanbase and lack of courtesy towards others.

I would post the above in the thread at Millarworld but I get the impression I'd have a hard time opening an account with them :rolleyes: Please correct me if I'm wrong.

J Hendrick

J Hendrick wrote: »

WTF? when your web comic's made into a movie let me know, because as far as I can tell from this forum the only thing that's entertained here is piss and vinegar. Heaven forbid that someone be successful but you lot wouldn't know about that because you're all too busy being bitter.

Fysh wrote: »

4) It saddens me to see you resort to cheap tactics like asking whether my webcomic has been optioned for film rights, because it effectively means you're waving around a big sign saying that you're either extremely upset at the time of posting (which means you should sit down, have a cup of tea, rethink your post and then come back to it) or you genuinely haven't got a better argument to post against me. I could be (and quite possibly am in the eyes of some) the worst and hackiest cartoonists ever to abuse the format - that doesn't mean I can't have an opinion on the work of more established cartoonists. A long-standing rule on boards is "hate the post not the poster" - so if you genuinely think that I'm mistaken in my summary of Millar's approach to promoting is comic, take the time to explain why.

Fysh, or should I say Kyle I find your webcomic to be very entertaining and certainly superior to much of Millar's work. And as a screenwriter(I wrote a low budget monster movie for a production company in LA last summer)/film student I would be honoured if you would consider allowing me the option to your webcomic.

D Shalvey

Guys, guys, what's with all the hate? It's just comics!

To be fair, the forum title is sounds a bit severe to me, and from browsing these boards from time to time, i do find them needlessly bitter at times. I can't blame J Hendrick for being annoyed. If you don't like Millar; fair enough, there's a LOT of people who do. Personally, i really like most of his stuff, but i really don't like Kick-ass. There; i said it. That's just my opinion. No need to get angry about it, right?

Dec.

Jack B. Badd

D Shalvey wrote: »

Guys, guys, what's with all the hate? It's just comics!

To be fair, the forum title is sounds a bit severe to me, and from browsing these boards from time to time, i do find them needlessly bitter at times. I can't blame J Hendrick for being annoyed. If you don't like Millar; fair enough, there's a LOT of people who do. Personally, i really like most of his stuff, but i really don't like Kick-ass. There; i said it. That's just my opinion. No need to get angry about it, right?

Dec.

I think you're missing the point. Regardless of people's opinions of Millar as a writer, the crux of the matter is his business tactics and in particular him encouraging his fans to spam a bunch of other sites. This has been pointed out by a number of other posters.
Any writer, artist or individual (especially if they were well known in the industry) who encouraged spamming would be met with such vehemence on this board.

Fysh

The title probably is a bit harsh, but on the other hand spam is a pain in the ass so I don't think it's undeserved.

As regards the bitterness aspect, the general consensus of this thread has been that people aren't keen on this as a promotional technique regardless of the quality of his writing. I know that there's probably more negativity on these boards than on Millarworld, but as far as I can tell that's probably down to the relatively stricter moderation of negative or critical posts on there (at least from what I've seen as a lurker, though I could be wrong). Sure, I prefer to read posts where people talk about what they like to those where they complain about what they don't, but I don't see why this shouldn't be a place
that can suitably house both types of discussion.

I have my own issues with how Millarworld operates, which is why I just lurk rather than post there. That's not to say it's awful or should be nuked from orbit or any of the rest of it, just that it's not the forum for me. I made jokey comments about it because I'm aware I'm not the only one who doesn't like it - hell, look at its definition on urbandictionary for proof of that. Why on earth anyone cares about my opinion or jokey comments about the place enough to have a rant about it is beyond me, though.