Cycling article in the Irish Times

Traumadoc

I generally obey traffic lights, but aware the majority of cyclists killed in Dublin as in London are killed by HGVs turning left and crushing cyclists who are obeying the rules.

BostonB

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

I have a golden rule that applies to going through red lights etc and that is to do exactly what I would were I walking.

Er what?

kenmc

rflynnr wrote: »

I've pondered on the question of the cultural shift for a while. To my own surprize I find myself leaning towards an authoritarian solution. Cyclists by and large are not treated as serious road users by other road users. However, most cyclists, (and I've commuted in Dublin city virtually every day for 15 years and so am one myself) do not behave in a manner that would earn the right to be treated as serious (cycling without lights in the dark, ignoring red lights, horsing down paths etc.). However, it strikes me that such behaviour has only become a norm in a context where those legally charged with enforcing the law - i.e. the Guardai - routinely ignore illegal behaviour on the part of cyclists. My impression (and it is only that) is that you'd have to pull a wheelie into oncoming traffic before most Guards would feel compelled to address the situation. Surely it's worth at least exploring the idea that consistent and meaningful application of existing road traffic laws to cyclists might modify cyclist behaviour and lead in turn to a shift in their perceived status by other road users.

(In this regard, consider the impact of the smoking ban, introduction of levy on plastic bags in supermarkets, as other examples of successful "cultural" shifts.)

I can see another possible reason for the non-obeyance of rules among cyclists, and I have to admit it's crossed my mind too to be honest : If they (drivers) are not going to obey the rules of the road with regards to cycle lanes, observation, clearance, patience etc, why should we (cyclists) obey lights etc. I know it's not right, but I occasionally wonder why I should stop at lights only to be swiped by a cager turning left across me as I start off when they go green. It's like neither side is prepared to give the first ground, and it's a no-win situation

doozerie

kenmc wrote:

I can see another possible reason for the non-obeyance of rules among cyclists, and I have to admit it's crossed my mind too to be honest : If they (drivers) are not going to obey the rules of the road with regards to cycle lanes, observation, clearance, patience etc, why should we (cyclists) obey lights etc. I know it's not right, but I occasionally wonder why I should stop at lights only to be swiped by a cager turning left across me as I start off when they go green. It's like neither side is prepared to give the first ground, and it's a no-win situation

That's not a reason for anything, it's just a poor excuse for choosing to ignore the rules of the road. It is the equivalent a child's response of "'cos they made me do it" when asked why they did something they shouldn't have. Not only is it "not right" as you say yourself, but when the same reasoning is applied by idiot drivers (to take just one category of road user) they can use such behaviour of cyclists as justification for their own stupid actions, so the stupidity effectively feeds on itself.

The reason that any category of road user should obey the rules of the road, is for the common good of all road users. If everyone chooses to comply only with their own version of the existing rules of the road, then no-one can predict the behaviour of others and therefore everyone is at risk. Lack of enforcement of penalties on idiots by the Gardai is a serious problem, but the real solution is for everyone to use the roads with more consideration for others - and that includes cyclists. As cyclists, if we ignore the rules of the road, then we are as bad as those drivers that cyclists as a group frequently criticise for doing just that.

blorg

@Ken- I try not to think in terms of drivers vs. cyclists but of individuals who may be driving or cycling.

Gavin

... and a letter sent in response to the article in the paper.

Madam, - It is heartening to see somebody address the possibility that the timeworn promotion of cycling safety equipment has made cycling seem more dangerous than it actually is ("You'll look sweet upon the seat", August 28th). When actuarial data are examined, the health benefits of cycling dwarf the dangers by a ratio of 20 to one ( Cycling: towards health and safety , 1992, British Medical Association).

Of course, just because a transport option is acceptably safe, it does not mean we should not press to make it safer. Seventy per cent of urban cyclists killed in recent years were attempting to pass a left-turning truck or bus on the inside. When this manoeuvre goes wrong, no safety equipment is of any use.

A public awareness campaign to inform cyclists never to attempt to overtake large vehicles at junctions (even when the presence of cycle lanes suggest that they should) would handsomely repay the investment.

- Yours, etc,

DERMOT RYAN, The Tramyard, Dublin 8.

DirkVoodoo

I go through the odd red light, but I would never try and pass a large vehicle turning left. I value self-preservation and a bit of common sense over prescriptive adherence to the rules of the road. It's funny how many drivers run lights, perform dangerous overtaking or (my favourite) have no idea how to properly enter/exit a roundabout, yet if a cyclist breaks a red light, they are clubbed over the head with the rules of the road.

I think an awareness of the traffic conditions you are cycling in, a familiarity with your route (hazardous junctions, blind entrances and so forth) are far more useful tools than quoting paragraphs from that book.

On a side note, I nearly got thrown of my bike when the rear wheel hit a rusted allen key lying on the cycle track recently. If I am ever on my Orion, I refuse to cycle it on those construction site car parks, sorry I meant cycle paths.

Harrybelafonte

Traumadoc wrote: »

I generally obey traffic lights, but aware the majority of cyclists killed in Dublin as in London are killed by HGVs turning left and crushing cyclists who are obeying the rules.

You should do a search on the dangers of staying on the inside of large left turning vehicles. Bit of common sense is involved.

doozerie

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

I go through the odd red light, but I would never try and pass a large vehicle turning left. I value self-preservation and a bit of common sense over prescriptive adherence to the rules of the road. It's funny how many drivers run lights, perform dangerous overtaking or (my favourite) have no idea how to properly enter/exit a roundabout, yet if a cyclist breaks a red light, they are clubbed over the head with the rules of the road..

I agree that some Rules of the Road are contentious. As an example, there are certain lengths of cycle path (and some cycle lanes too, but to a lesser extent) that are so badly designed that using them can pose more danger to a cyclist than not using them. Those cycle paths/lanes ones I choose not to use, but in doing so I am aware that I can be fined - I feel that I could put forward a reasonable argument for why not using a badly designed cycle path/lane was the right choice, but if a garda choose to fine me regardless then I'll just have to lump it.

However, the vast majority of the rules are there to promote a safer environment for all road users, and some of them do this very well. Traffic lights are one case in point - if traffic lights are obeyed it is difficult to imagine how such adherence to the rules poses any danger to anyone, including cyclists. Choosing to ignore red lights, on the other hand, poses a danger to you (which is your choice and you are free to make it) and to others (who potentially suffer by your choice, which is a risk that you are not entitled to impose on others). People might argue that they'll only break a red light when there is nothing coming, but in the majority of incidents where I have had near collisions with other road users (bicycles, cars, motorbikes, etc.) that chose to ignore red traffic lights and/or right of way their defence to my protests about their behaviour was "I didn't see you" even when my bike/car was lit up like a Christmas tree - the point is that people see what they want to see, when it suits them. It suits people in a hurry to see less than most.

Also, arguing for the right to break red lights when you choose to is a very slippery slope. Would you argue that other cyclists should be allowed to break red lights too, when they deem it appropriate? If so, would you feel safer on the roads knowing that you have supported other cyclists in such practice? And if you feel that cyclists can safely ignore red lights, then surely you must concede that drivers should feel safe in doing so too (or is the judgement of other road users somehow inferior to that of cyclists)? Would you feel safer on the roads knowing that you have supported the right of drivers to break red lights when it suits them?

cantalach

doozerie wrote: »

Those cycle paths/lanes ones I choose not to use, but in doing so I am aware that I can be fined - I feel that I could put forward a reasonable argument for why not using a badly designed cycle path/lane was the right choice, but if a garda choose to fine me regardless then I'll just have to lump it.

I must be honest and reveal my ignorance. When I read this I thought you were smoking; that cyclists surely don't have to use a cycle path where one is provided. So I checked it out and you're absolutely right. I'm in a state of shock!

The "Road Traffic (Traffic and Parking) Regulations, 1997 to 2003" include the following:

"14.2 (a) Subject to paragraph (b), a pedal cycle must be driven on a cycle track where one is provided."

The paragraph (b) that is referred to details the exceptional circumstances where the cycle track doesn't have to be used. Incredibly though, these do not include the case where poor design or poor state of repair would endanger the cyclist.

I'll be firing off e-mails later...

rflynnr

100% agree with Doozerie on this. I've come to regard my own cycling behaviour (and I'm not trying to suggest I'm perfect) as a project, an opportunity to demonstrate to other road users (cyclists included) that they can expect me to behave in a predictable fashion and thus to encourage them to do likewise. It's amazing to me how simple stuff like stopping at a red light when you could probably safely go through it or even simply signalling an intention to turn before doing so seems to engender a willingness on the part of other road users to give you a bit of space and basically acknowledge your existence. Does it work all the time? Absolutely not but more often than you might imagine and enough to allow me - thus far - to avoid serious injury.

Embrace the project!:D

BostonB

On my way in this morning, there was a line of cars and trucks queued at the lights turning left, I moved out of the mandatory cycle lane, and to their right and into the middle of the right lane to cross the junction. I was going straight. Another cyclist, put on a burst of speed to make the lights, stayed in the cycle lane and went up the inside of them all, slotting between a truck and a car turning left and went straight one. Dead wish.

kenmc

I'm with you on your project, I stop at lights now, didn't always used to, but do now. (very) occasionally i will dismount, walk the bike around a corner and remount if there's nothing coming. If I know the sequence of the lights I will occasionally go very slightly early - just enough to get moving before the cars behind get going - it means that they will see me, and also they know I'm not going to be wobbling along at their bumper.
Quite a few other cyclists tend to stop too I notice, although there are a fair few trying to disprove Darwins theory

BostonB

I stop for a rest tbh

DirkVoodoo

I agree with you totally doozerie, good post btw.

The only red light I ever find myself going through is the one on the N11 at the top of merrion road. My reasoning is purely for my own purposes and I'm not looking to amend the rules of the road. If I get stopped by a Garda, its tough nuts for me!

Basically, I find that particular stretch of cycle path extremely hazardous. It is banked by two heavily used bus stops, there is often vans parked on the kerb, the surface changes from good tarmac to broken, sloped concrete on one or two occasions and I don't think my bike can navigate it safely. It's safer, for me, to go down the bus lane and hop back onto the cycle lane at the Radisson junction. So, generally what I do is when the pedestrian filter has gone red, and assuming no number 7 buses or taxis are coming up merrion road onto the N11, I continue on through the light. Since its a T junction and I am in the bus lane, the only real hazard if no one is coming up merrion road is from buses or taxis behind me, so by getting out in front of them, I am normally at the next junction by the time they have a green light.

I know its illegal, but for me it feels like the safest option, bar getting off and walking.

Karma

aidan.offbeat wrote: »

Some entrepeneur should jump on this bandwagon and make SPD high heels and cycling skirts with chamois...

ask and thou shall receive:D
you should check out their simple effective conversion methods to spd, especially for converse.(try on old runners first)
some of my friends made mini skirts to wear with their cycling shorts(yes girls!) :eek:
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