Boxster outhandle a 911 ???

NedKelly

I was driving my Boxster S a while back and was messing with my friend who has a 911 (996) i was amazed on the twisty bits i could easily catch up with him ..ok on the straights he was well gone


and before anyone gets on the stage it was a track day not on Public roads.:D

my question is can a Boxster Really out handle a 911?? surely not ..

Mr.David

Its lighter with a better weight distribution so I would expect it to be quicker round the twisty bits alright.

unkel

Perhaps the skills of the drivers were not on a par

NedKelly

thought that but we swapped cars after a few laps!

Zube

NedKelly wrote: »

my question is can a Boxster Really out handle a 911?? surely not ..

I've seen the car mags saying Porsche daren't release a Cayman S Turbo as it would be faster and better handling than any 911, making the much more expensive and profitable model a bit redundant.

2 Espressi

I've heard that this is the reason why the power of the Boxster has been limited and why LSD is not available. Porsche are very wary about having their flagship usurped by its little brother...

[edit] pretty much what was said above! There's an S version of the Cayman out soon, but Porsche AG are said to be looking for silly money for it, to protect the heavier, rear-engined car. It's in the current Evo, I'll dig it out when I get home.

pburns

NedKelly wrote: »

I was driving my Boxster S a while back and was messing with my friend who has a 911 (996) i was amazed on the twisty bits i could easily catch up with him ..ok on the straights he was well gone


and before anyone gets on the stage it was a track day not on Public roads.:D

my question is can a Boxster Really out handle a 911?? surely not ..

Boxster is mid-engined and 911 is rear-engined. Despite all the electronic gubbins the latter will always be a disadvantage. Were the 911 not such an iconic totem it probably would have been replaced long ago. In fact Porsche intended the 928 to replace it.

It's a bit of a marketing dilema - were Porsche to develop the Boxster layout with bigger engines I'm sure it would blow the 911 into the weeds. In fact I remember the Top Gear guys reporting that a certain amount of 'cynical engineering' was evident in the Cayman (no limited slip diff?) to make sure it wasn't faster than it's more illustrious big brother...

Ferris

pburns wrote: »

In fact I remember the Top Gear guys reporting that a certain amount of 'cynical engineering' was evident in the Cayman (no limited slip diff?) to make sure it wasn't faster than it's more illustrious big brother...

Indeed, one of the many delights of attending a Porsche launch is the disdain with which its representatives view its marketing department. One of very few criticisms I have of this new £43,930 Cayman S (think Boxster coupé with more power) is that it lacks a limited slip differential, a device that improves grip, particularly traction. When I asked at the press conference why this was missing, the car’s chief chassis developer said simply: “The car needs it, but marketing says it cannot have it.” Why not? Because if it did it would be quicker cross-country than the Porsche 911, a car more expensive to the tune of £15,000.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/driving/new_car_reviews/article575900.ece

IMO the 911 vs Boxster with the same power, the boxster would easily win. Porsche were going to release a supercharger 2.7 Boxster but stopped development over 'overheating' concerns, yeah right!

ondafly

Ferris wrote: »

Porsche were going to release a supercharger 2.7 Boxster but stopped development over 'overheating' concerns, yeah right!

Actually quite a popular modification in the US - is to drop in a 3.4 or 3.6 carrera engine into a boxster. Reality is most of the parts on the 986 boxster are straight from the 996 carerra (part numbers start 996xxxxx). Having said that, there is also plenty of supercharged 2.5 boxsters on youtube, that sound fantastic and don't overheat :cool:.

Quaife do a lovely LSD for the boxster also :pac:

I find the handling on the boxster just fantastic, I've had my days of 300bhp cars and to be honest I don't miss it, got 500kms out of the last tank of petrol, compared to the scabby 150miles I was getting out of the M3 and you gotta love the hoon out of a boxster engine.

smash

2 Espressi wrote: »

There's an S version of the Cayman out soon, but Porsche AG are said to be looking for silly money for it, to protect the heavier, rear-engined car. It's in the current Evo, I'll dig it out when I get home.

There already is a Cayman S, there's loads for sale http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=search&maxrows=100&MakeID=23&xMakeID=23&ModelID=1358&xModelID=1358&Year=&xYear=&Price_Max=&searchtext=&x=54&y=8

Seth Brundle

unkel wrote: »

Perhaps the skills of the drivers were not on a par

This is the most likely possibility.
I don't think that the weight of the 911 is likely but in saying that, I was on a track day in Mondello before and my E39 523i could not pass an E36 316i as it was quicker out of the corners!

RobAMerc

While 911's have a huge cult following there is a lot of people out there not very impressed with the 911's handling. Remember Porsche have been 30 odd years trying to right the fact they stuck the engine in the wrong place - trying everything from 4*4 to stop the back end breaking loose to lead weights in the bumper to get the weight distribution right ( and stop it taking off at speed )

A big part of the cars initial cultism is the fact it will be your best friend egging you to puch it a bit more right up to the point where it kills you.

I have driven and loved numerous 911's but I was never under the illusion it was a superb handling car - it gives huge feedback and is a very enjoyable car - there is a massive sense of occasion for one - but a mid engined properly sorted ( right weight distribution ) and lets face it much more modern boxster should be its better.

I speak of course for most generations up to about the 997.
I think a well driven one of those would blitz the boxster.

unkel

Some great points!

NedKelly wrote: »

thought that but we swapped cars after a few laps!

I should have said that it takes a lot of skill to drive the 911 (even up to and including 996 as RobAMerc said) on the edge. I've no doubt that a 911 driven properly will always beat a Boxster. That said, I reckon most 911 owners can not get (anywhere near) the max out of their car

cancan

unkel wrote: »

Some great points!



That said, I reckon most 911 owners can not get (anywhere near) the max out of their car

Same for every car....

Balfa

unkel wrote: »

I should have said that it takes a lot of skill to drive the 911

That probably makes sense. I'm not a believer of the stories about Porsche intentionally retarding the Cayman.
I think if the Cayman was so much better than the 911, then privateers would be entering it in GT races instead. But they don't.

pburns

Is there not an opportunity for Porsche to create a kind of Cayman + model line and let natural evolution take it's course? Of course this would mean having 2 competing model lines and upset the purists but if they really want to beat the new generation of R8, GTR etc surely they need to think outside the box a little.

I actually miss the old 944 philosophy - an uber-practical sports hatch with exquisite handling (economical too come to think of it). It was a smash-hit with young family yuppies in Britain in the '80s. I reckon a modern incarnation would have done very well for Porsche in Ireland at the height of the boom.

Rob987

pburns wrote: »

It's a bit of a marketing dilema - were Porsche to develop the Boxster layout with bigger engines I'm sure it would blow the 911 into the weeds. In fact I remember the Top Gear guys reporting that a certain amount of 'cynical engineering' was evident in the Cayman (no limited slip diff?) to make sure it wasn't faster than it's more illustrious big brother...

The 2009 Boxster S will develop c. 310bhp, broadly in line with similar power increases to the 997 (base goes from 325 to 345bhp, with the 997S now producing c. 380bhp). To put that into perspective, the new Boxster S will be more powerful than the 996 when it was first released in 1998. Porsche will always keep a differential between the 997/8 and 987/8 for the reasons given already, so it won't outrun a new 911. However, it most likely will outrun a standard 996 once the 2009 version comes out for the next model year.

There are rumours circulating that the Cayman and Boxster will get a limited slip differential. Possibly not until next generations in 2011.

MarkN

I've constantly kept an eye on this car since I nearly went for it nearly 12 months ago.

It was 92k list and now look what the current market has done!

http://www.carzone.ie/used-cars/Porsche/Cayman/S-Highest/968015/

I am in love with the Cayman S, I won't stop until I get a 911 someday but I would gladly live with this beauty.

I'm a big Boxster fan but for me anyway, the Caymas is worth the extra wedge.

The one I've posted would be seriously good value if your negotiations skills are good.

pburns wrote: »

Is there not an opportunity for Porsche to create a kind of Cayman + model line and let natural evolution take it's course?

http://www.carzone.ie/used-cars/Porsche/Cayman/www.descullencars.ie-777/961724/

randomer

kbannon wrote: »

This is the most likely possibility.
I don't think that the weight of the 911 is likely but in saying that, I was on a track day in Mondello before and my E39 523i could not pass an E36 316i as it was quicker out of the corners!

Probably off topic, but why was a 316 on a track???

Seth Brundle

randomer wrote: »

Probably off topic, but why was a 316 on a track???

It was a BMW track day so why not?
There were two alternating groups - lower power/unskilled drivers and then high power/skilled drivers.

Biro

RobAMerc wrote: »

While 911's have a huge cult following there is a lot of people out there not very impressed with the 911's handling. Remember Porsche have been 30 odd years trying to right the fact they stuck the engine in the wrong place - trying everything from 4*4 to stop the back end breaking loose to lead weights in the bumper to get the weight distribution right ( and stop it taking off at speed )

A big part of the cars initial cultism is the fact it will be your best friend egging you to puch it a bit more right up to the point where it kills you.

I have driven and loved numerous 911's but I was never under the illusion it was a superb handling car - it gives huge feedback and is a very enjoyable car - there is a massive sense of occasion for one - but a mid engined properly sorted ( right weight distribution ) and lets face it much more modern boxster should be its better.

I speak of course for most generations up to about the 997.
I think a well driven one of those would blitz the boxster.

I've only driven the 997 S, so I've no idea what the earlier ones were like, but I loved it. I was surprised at just how obvious it was while cornering where the engine was, yet the grip was superb - and it was bucketing rain at the time! It's a superbly communicative chassis. Still though, it does leave you with the impression that the engine is indeed in the wrong place. Apparently though the 997 is exceptional in how far along Porsche have come with it, to the point that some 993 or older fans are critical of it for ironing out the key flaw!

Biro

cancan wrote: »

Same for every car....

True, but not to the same level. It's easier to reach the limit of, say a GTR than it is a Stratos! A good driver might get to 80% of the GTR's ability but only 34.7% of the Stratos's ability...