Steve Anderson on Jericho vs HBK feud

JP Liz

Source Wrestlezone

Perhaps I’ve written it before, but the feud between Shawn Michaels and Chris Jericho is one for the ages. They just don’t make storylines like this anymore. There has been build, twists and turns, and significant character shifts in this ongoing drama.

Most wrestling feuds over the years have felt hurried. Others have been botched. Still others have been abandoned with little to no explanation. Frankly, WWE creative hasn’t shown the attention span to craft out a long-term angle where the intensity and hatred between two wrestlers builds over time.

As wrestling fans, we are long overdue for a feud that can be described as epic. Y2J vs. HBK has the potential to be another, dare I say, Tommy Rich vs. Buzz Sawyer.

Okay, for you younger fans, I may have lost you. But older fans are nodding their head in agreement when it comes to the intensity of the two-year (yes, two-year) feud between “Wildfire” and the “Mad Dog” in Georgia Championship Wrestling. It seethed with hatred and it simply would not let up.

The feud ended in 1983 in the now legendary “Last Battle of Atlanta” featuring a “last man standing” steel cage match for the NWA Georgia National championship. To say it was bloody would be an understatement. It was hell in a cell before there was “Hell in a Cell.” Rich won and later briefly teamed with his longtime nemesis.

Jericho vs. Michaels isn’t like any other feud. It has stripped away the gimmicks of both men. It isn’t over a championship. They are not fighting over a woman or control of the promotion. No one is going to be a manservant for the other. Neither man has to wear a dress. The storyline focuses on a legacy. Jericho’s obsessed with his while HBK is merely protecting his place in history.

Jericho is no longer the party host. Michaels is no longer the “sexy boy.” This past Monday night on Raw, Michaels and Jericho (via Titantron) underscored the effectiveness of the feud. Jericho was calm, cool and collected. He didn’t back down from Michaels’ challenge. HBK was controlled as well, but occasionally lost his composure, demanding Jericho face him in the ring.

It was realistic and intense. More importantly, it is bringing out the best in each man. I’ve never been a huge fan of Shawn Michaels, but he is showing that there is still gas left in the tank. He can be more than just the degenerate goofball. He has set aside his “born again” approach to seek his “eye for an eye.” Usually, wrestlers at this stage of their careers do not show such flexibility.

What WWE creative needs to do is not abandon this feud after Unforgiven. They need a slow build to a Wrestlemania showdown where Jericho and Michaels can settle it all. A series of confrontations and matches leading up to the big show and then their own “last battle.”

Shawn Michaels vs. Chris Jericho. They just don’t make feuds like this anymore.

Epic

I'm loving this feud at the moment

CMpunked

JP Liz wrote: »

I'm loving this feud at the moment

+1.

I dont know anyone who can say they dont

No offence.. but Who the hell is steve anderson?

CMpunked

Deleted User wrote: »

No offence.. but Who the hell is steve anderson?

A writer for wrestlezone.com.

After that i have no idea, as in to do with wrestling etc etc.

EdK

Well he's not Steve Austin thats for sure

Mr.Nice Guy

I must be the only one who preferred their feud in late 2002, early 2003 with Y2J Chris Jericho (the real Jericho) trying to beat the Showstopper who he idolised.

The sight of Jericho walking about in a suit (better than his new metrosexual attire I guess) with that muppet Cade as his lackey following behind him bores me to tears and I think the feud is pretty overrated in general. I suppose it's understandable in that there's nothing else happening.

Jericho vs. Michaels isn’t like any other feud. It has stripped away the gimmicks of both men.

The storyline focuses on a legacy. Jericho’s obsessed with his while HBK is merely protecting his place in history.

Jericho is no longer the party host. Michaels is no longer the “sexy boy.”

I think this is why I'm not a fan of it. They are focusing on 'legacy' even though they have stripped away the gimmicks of both men - which is what their legacies are built upon.

CMpunked

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

I think this is why I'm not a fan of it. They are focusing on 'legacy' even though they have stripped away the gimmicks of both men - which is what their legacies are built upon.

Seems like a bit of a paradox alright.

+1.

I dont know anyone who can say they dont

I guess i was wrong

ShawnRaven

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

I must be the only one who preferred their feud in late 2002, early 2003 with Y2J Chris Jericho (the real Jericho) trying to beat the Showstopper who he idolised.

Nope, you're not alone there, i tend to favour that, for both the storyline and the eventual match.

The sight of Jericho walking about in a suit (better than his new metrosexual attire I guess) with that muppet Cade as his lackey following behind him bores me to tears and I think the feud is pretty overrated in general. I suppose it's understandable in that there's nothing else happening.

To me, they're putting too much emphasis on the storyline, probably because they know they'll never beat the Mania 19 match bell to bell. And they have yet to do so during their feud either. Getting Michael's wife involved in the story, to me, seems like the last act of desperate script writers.

I think this is why I'm not a fan of it. They are focusing on 'legacy' even though they have stripped away the gimmicks of both men - which is what their legacies are built upon.

HBK, to be fair, hasn't had much of a gimmick since about 1995, his obnoxious gimmick blended more into a character by the time 1997 rolled around anyway. Jericho doesn't really have much of a legacy i'm afraid, and i like Jericho too! But a 3 month title reign where most defenses ended with run ins doesn't exactly put him in HBK, HHH, Flair, and dare i say it, Undertaker status now, does it?

VR!

validreasoning!

validreasoning! wrote: »

HBK, to be fair, hasn't had much of a gimmick since about 1995, his obnoxious gimmick blended more into a character by the time 1997 rolled around anyway. Jericho doesn't really have much of a legacy i'm afraid, and i like Jericho too! But a 3 month title reign where most defenses ended with run ins doesn't exactly put him in HBK, HHH, Flair, and dare i say it, Undertaker status now, does it?

I'd be of the opinion that title reigns aren't that important. If people can take you seriously as a main eventer then i dont think a title reign is all that important.

I think many people will remember Jericho long after he is gone, and will rate him very highly. I love his bragging, self-loving, character (i know he's not like that these days). I find it funny the way he carries on about himself, and i think he's a very good wrestler. He's comfortable on the mic, decent character, good ring work.. whats to not like, really?



And I believe that they are trying to help Cade be more accepted with the audience by having him hanging around Jericho (for when he inevitably needs to be seen as a legit threat to someone in the higher ranks).

ShawnRaven

Deleted User wrote: »

I'd be of the opinion that title reigns aren't that important. If people can take you seriously as a main eventer then i dont think a title reign is all that important.

An opinion i'd completely agree with. Now if only HHH would drop the belt and give it to someone who would use it, because he doesn't need it at this stage in the game. The problem with Jericho's main event run is that it made him look weak, that he shouldn't have been there in the first place. I don't think his career ever fully recovered since.

I think many people will remember Jericho long after he is gone, and will rate him very highly. I love his bragging, self-loving, character (i know he's not like that these days). I find it funny the way he carries on about himself, and i think he's a very good wrestler. He's comfortable on the mic, decent character, good ring work.. whats to not like, really?

The thing was, for all the huzzah about his comeback last year, and this reminds me of the amount of people who mourned when Eddie died. Not many people mentioned him in his two year absence. Out of sight, was most definitely out of mind when Jericho left, same when Guerrero had been fired and was gone from WWE for the guts of a year, and even prior to that. A lot of the people "grieving" for Eddie Guerrero didn't even give a f*ck about him then, let's be honest here.

And I believe that they are trying to help Cade be more accepted with the audience by having him hanging around Jericho (for when he inevitably needs to be seen as a legit threat to someone in the higher ranks).

And Cade is about the only one that will benefit from this. My gripe here is that they've been trying to push Cade for the guts of three years now, and it went nowhere every time. That said, it took three attempts to push Bret into singles before he got anywhere too.

VR!

validreasoning!

validreasoning! wrote: »

An opinion i'd completely agree with. Now if only HHH would drop the belt and give it to someone who would use it, because he doesn't need it at this stage in the game. The problem with Jericho's main event run is that it made him look weak, that he shouldn't have been there in the first place. I don't think his career ever fully recovered since.

I don't know. I don't think fans look at him as being weak. I think they definitely look at him as a coward, but thats what he is. For example, when he decided to go after HBK he takes Cade with him, as he possibly fears he can't get the job done on his own (he couldn't do it the last time he tried). If you remember aswell, after their match at Mania XIX, Jericho gave HBK a kick in balls and then taunted as Michaels fell in a heap. He's a very cowardly person, but thats what is so good about him in my opinion. He always looks for a way out of things. And he'll never do anything unless it benefits him directly (i realise im talking in "Kayfabe" here, but im trying to explain how i believe people view his character).

The thing was, for all the huzzah about his comeback last year, and this reminds me of the amount of people who mourned when Eddie died. Not many people mentioned him in his two year absence. Out of sight, was most definitely out of mind when Jericho left, same when Guerrero had been fired and was gone from WWE for the guts of a year, and even prior to that. A lot of the people "grieving" for Eddie Guerrero didn't even give a f*ck about him then, let's be honest here.

I agree with the Eddie point, but really, does anyone ever care until someone dies? Kennedy's a sloppy wrestler at the moment and just average at promos, but when he dies, for the next week all we'll hear from everyone is "man, he was the best thing ever! his matches were awesome!". Its always gonna be like that (im using Kennedy as an example). But in fairness, I think a few people were a little upset to see Jericho go. Obviously they got over it, but when he was initially out of his contract, i think a few people were a little upset about it (especially considering he was main eventing for a decent period of time up to that).

And Cade is about the only one that will benefit from this. My gripe here is that they've been trying to push Cade for the guts of three years now, and it went nowhere every time. That said, it took three attempts to push Bret into singles before he got anywhere too.

VR!

I don't think either Shawn or Jericho will benefit from this immediately. If they had sense, HBK would have gotten someone to side with him, too. There's really no point in elevating one person when you can do two at the same time. There's nothing to gain from Shawn or Jericho's perspective, anyway. Neither are going to go on to be pushed for a title they haven't got, or to slowly elevate them to the main event (because they've already been there, done that). Honestly, I wouldn't say creative even had them penciled in to go on this long. I think they just decided to keep it rolling once people started getting into it.

As you said earlier

Getting Michael's wife involved in the story, to me, seems like the last act of desperate script writers.

It seems like a very rushed decision. Its almost stereotypical of a bad wrestling angle "hey, you insulted/hurt my wife/girlfriend, now i've no choice other than to stand up to you for the pride of my family". Don't get me wrong, it worked when Clubber Lang started getting in Adrian's face. But that was many years ago, and it wasn't even the best move for Rocky, but even wrestling fans have to be sick of seeing it.


So while i am more than open to admit that Jericho and Michaels aren't going to be hugely beneficial of this feud in the near future, i do think that in a few years, when they're both finished, when you think of Jericho (or to a lesser extent, Michaels), you'll think of this angle and how well it was pulled off.


And as DDP would say, thats not a bad thing, its a good thing.

rovert

Ould Mr. Anderson contradicts himself in the 3rd & 6th paragraphs.

rovert

Brokeback RAW:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xl8mQJEcWd8

rovert

rovert wrote: »

Ould Mr. Anderson contradicts himself in the 3rd & 6th paragraphs.

I don't see what you're referring to... :o

rovert

rovert wrote: »

Brokeback RAW:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xl8mQJEcWd8

Just watched it, excellent!

flahavaj

rovert wrote: »

Brokeback RAW:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xl8mQJEcWd8

Brilliant.

rovert

Deleted User wrote: »

I don't see what you're referring to... :o

As wrestling fans, we are long overdue for a feud that can be described as epic. Y2J vs. HBK has the potential to be another, dare I say, Tommy Rich vs. Buzz Sawyer.

Jericho vs. Michaels isn’t like any other feud. It has stripped away the gimmicks of both men. It isn’t over a championship. They are not fighting over a woman or control of the promotion. No one is going to be a manservant for the other. Neither man has to wear a dress. The storyline focuses on a legacy. Jericho’s obsessed with his while HBK is merely protecting his place in history.

Anyway in actual fact HBK and Y2J have used a lot of set pieces from that era in the NWA during this fued. Until Summerlslam it was easily more likened to Greg Valentine vs Roddy Pipe not Rich and Buzz leading up to their match at Starrcade.

I kind of side with people who have been saying the feud has becoming self indulgent since Summerslam.

rovert

rovert wrote: »

Anyway in actual fact HBK and Y2J have used a lot of set pieces from that era in the NWA during this fued. Until Summerlslam it was easily more likened to Greg Valentine vs Roddy Pipe not Rich and Buzz leading up to their match at Starrcade.

I kind of side with people who have been saying the feud has becoming self indulgent since Summerslam.

I believe he (The writer of the article) meant it has the potential to be like the other feud in the sense that it's being built well and fans are genuinely interested in it?

Not that the layout or basis of each rivalry is similar...


Could be wrong though.

JP Liz

Between The Ropes with Chris Jericho
August 26, 2008
Hosts: Brian Fritz, Dickerman, Vito DeNucci
Recap by Adam Samons
Available on ESPN Florida AM 1080 and AM 1060
Simulcast online at BetweentheRopes.com.

The interview started out with Chris being asked about his feud with Shawn Michaels. "I remember when I was a kid watching wrestling I think Jake the Snake and Rick Rude had an angle for a whole year, it literally lasted a year. Nowadays, if you can go two months with somebody it's like 'oh my gosh, we got a lot out of that one.' This one has been six months and going with no signs of slowing down. It's hotter now than it ever has been…Definitely it's one of the best, if not this best, angle I've ever been involved with in my entire career." Chris also credited his reinvention of the Chris Jericho character as one of the reasons that the angle has yet to slow down.

On top of his work with WWE Chris discussed his projects outside the ring. Regarding his band Fozzy Chris said that he's working on lyrics for his next album, though neither he nor the rest of the band have time to actually produce it right now. Chris explained that he sees this as a positive since it gives him time to figure out the most effective way to release the album given the ever changing music business.

Chris was then asked whether he finds the politics to be worse in music or wrestling. He said the politics in music were worse for him because he doesn't always know who to talk to, whereas in wrestling he can just go straight to the boss and discuss his issues.

After some talk about the video game Guitar Hero the topic shifted back to his WWE work, specifically the recent evolution of his character. Chris said that he knew when he returned he wanted to do something different, but he wasn't exactly sure what at first. He then talked about the fans taking a little while to get used to the new Jericho, who both looked and acted a bit differently, likening it to the reaction that Metallica got from its fans after cutting their hair for the album Load.

"It takes a while for people to get used to a new look, a new image, and a new mindset. When they were getting used to it I changed it up into something completely new and different and not playing the old Y2J character that was very sarcastic and over the top. I wanted to take it all the way down to where if I talk slow and whisper almost the fans are going to have to shut up and listen to what I have to say because I'm in control. I'm in control every night I go into that ring, every night I say something, do something, or wrestle. I'm the one that calls the shots not the fans."

Jericho also specifically discussed one of the most obvious visual evolutions of his character, his wearing of short tights. "It's the first time I've ever worn short tights in 18 years. It's great, I love it because everyone is like 'what are you doing? Why are you wearing short tights?" Chris said that the reason he always wore long tights was because two of his favorites, Shawn Michaels and Owen Hart, wore long tights, so he started doing it and never changed. Chris then recounted this backstage reaction to the new short tights "I think it was Bruce Pritchard, or it might have even been Vince (McMahon), asked me 'why have you been covering those legs for so long?' It's a very homoerotic sport, two half no guys greased up and touching each other."

Chris then explained how some of his acting studies have helped his character's recent evolution. "I studied acting while I was gone and its come in so handy and made me so much more relevant now as a performer because I'm playing a character more than I ever have. I'm definitely an actor playing the part of Chris Jericho when I'm out there. It adds so much to the layering and the depth of the mindsets that I have…I honestly feel that this is the best I've ever been on the mic and in the ring as well."

The interview concluded with Jericho hyping his next book which he is currently working on and will come out next October. He said that the subject matter will revolve around what it was like achieving his dream, whether it was worth it, and how he fought to continue living it out.

Jericho go back to wearing long tights please

Fozzy

I have absolutely no opinion on his shorts/tights. It really doesn't bother me at all. I'm surprised that some people care a lot about it

flahavaj

Fozzy wrote: »

I have absolutely no opinion on his shorts/tights. It really doesn't bother me at all. I'm surprised that some people care a lot about it

+1

Fozzy

Fozzy wrote: »

I have absolutely no opinion on his shorts/tights. It really doesn't bother me at all. I'm surprised that some people care a lot about it

I can see why it does annoy people. (Not really annoy people,. but i can't think of a better word at the moment).


I think he looks really thin and small in trunks, and every time I've ever seen Jericho he's been in tights, so i think he looks a little odd.

But, like the changing of the Titan Trons, Triple H from tights to trunks and Shawn Michaels from tights to pleathers... It just takes a little while to get used to it.

CMpunked

I think it was a very creative idea to just show how much of a change in character he has gone through.

example:

Everyone loves Y2J in tights: Face
Nobody likes Jericho in shorts: Heel

Ok i am really taking the piss there, but the first bit is legit.

JP Liz

Can the feud last all the way to WM even though Jericho is now WHC champion?

ShawnRaven

Who knows, but this damn thread will last all the way to Mania if it gets bumped once every month!

VR!

flahavaj

validreasoning! wrote: »

Who knows, but this damn thread will last all the way to Mania if it gets bumped once every month!

VR!

You do realise that by replying you're bumping it yourself?:pac:

ShawnRaven

Guilty as charged, and if i get sent down for it, i'm taking you with me, pal!
VR!