New Liverpool Stadium Is Likely To Be Off

Hero Of College

PHB wrote: »

Yeh. Well then you can keep buying the likes of Torres once every 5 years, because thats where all the money comes from.
Corporate boxes pay the bills, anyone who can't realise that needs their head checked.

Players like Torres only come around once every 15 years.;)

Mr Alan

Everton wouldnt be able to fill a 70k stadium.

Liverpool fans dont even nearly want a shared stadium.

We just need owners who can afford to do wat they promise.


The groundshare wont happen.

spockety

Phb - not sure you would be so logical or detached if there was talk of utd doing a groundshare

OPENROAD

PHB wrote: »

Corporate boxes pay the bills, anyone who can't realise that needs their head checked.

Indeed one only has to look at the Emirates and club level and the extra amount this brings in each game alone and vast majority of these supoorters are just ordinary supporters. That said I'm not too sure Liverpool would do it on quite the scale Arsenal did.

Can't see the ground share between Liverpool and Everton, just won't happen.

herbieflowers

an English groundshare would be pretty unprecedented, Selhurst Park is the only one I can think of off the top of my head, and that wasn't even a true ground share. I just don't think England has that continental...tradition (?) of sharing grounds. Football is, arguably, more tribal and definitely more complex now than it was when the Meazza, Olympic Stadium were being built.

Mayo Exile

Would the pitch stand up to a groundshare, with the winter you get in the Northwest of England? You could relay it a few times in the season, but would the surface be up to scratch?

The pitch at Selhurst Park was in an awful state a few months into a season during its groundshare days.

Guy:Incognito

Mayo Exile wrote: »

Would the pitch stand up to a groundshare,.

It'll never have to.

Third_Echelon

Mr Alan wrote: »

Everton wouldnt be able to fill a 70k stadium.

Liverpool fans dont even nearly want a shared stadium.

We just need owners who can afford to do wat they promise.


The groundshare wont happen.

Of course Everton would be able to fill a 70,000 seater... Have you ever been to the city???? There are up to 1,000,000 people in the greater liverpool area. I'm going to put my neck on the line and say there are quite a few Evertonians among the 1,000,000 as well as the Irish and Scandinavian contingent that make their way over every week...

Building a stadium on their own back (Everton) they were looking at 50,000 as a target number due to costs. We mightn't fill 70,000 seats playing Wigan or Hull or someone like that, but I'm pretty confident for a lot of the big fixture we could fill it.

Even if we didn't it wouldn't really be relying on filling it for revenue as either we would only have to cough up half the funds to build it or pay a long term lease, which no doubt would be cheaper than the cost of a self-build option.

I have been saying from Day 1 that a ground-share is the best option for both clubs and it makes sense.

Both can't afford to go it alone. Pool resources and build a kick-ass stadium...

gixerfixer

This is a laugh. If anyone thinks the groundshare is going to go ahead they need to stop take a deep breath and think for a minute. Does anyone really think Everton will fill a 70,000 seater stadium on match days? Twice a season at the most. Everton may be "the peoples club" but they aint got the peoples to go and watch them. For god's sake they cant even fill the stadium they have now.:pac: Groundshare. Will ya ever stop.
Goodison Park Capacity: 40,552
Average attendance figures: 2007-2008 36,955
2006-2007 36,739
2005-2006 36,860

Mitch Connor

gixerfixer wrote: »

This is a laugh. If anyone thinks the groundshare is going to go ahead they need to stop take a deep breath and think for a minute. Does anyone really think Everton will fill a 70,000 seater stadium on match days? Twice a season at the most. Everton may be "the peoples club" but they aint got the peoples to go and watch them. For god's sake they cant even fill the stadium they have now.:pac: Groundshare. Will ya ever stop.
Goodison Park Capacity: 40,552
Average attendance figures: 2007-2008 36,955
2006-2007 36,739
2005-2006 36,860

what is the capacity of Goodison?

Guy:Incognito

Tauren wrote: »

what is the capacity of Goodison?

Goodison Park Capacity: 40,552

gixerfixer wrote: »

This is a laugh. If anyone thinks the groundshare is going to go ahead they need to stop take a deep breath and think for a minute. Does anyone really think Everton will fill a 70,000 seater stadium on match days? Twice a season at the most. Everton may be "the peoples club" but they aint got the peoples to go and watch them. For god's sake they cant even fill the stadium they have now.:pac: Groundshare. Will ya ever stop.
Goodison Park Capacity: 40,552
Average attendance figures: 2007-2008 36,955
2006-2007 36,739
2005-2006 36,860

Third_Echelon

gixerfixer wrote: »

Goodison Park Capacity: 40,552
Average attendance figures: 2007-2008 36,955
2006-2007 36,739
2005-2006 36,860

Goodison Park has approximately 3 to 4000 seats with restricted views due to pillars that are in the way. This is why these seats do not regularly sell....

ciaran76

Everton would maybe fill a 70k about 2 to 4 times a season I reckon. 70k would be too much.

Mr Alan

gixerfixer wrote: »

Everton may be "the peoples club"

self professed peoples club with nothing to back it up.
a title stolen from Shankly who refered to Liverpool as the peoples club decades earlier.

Third_Echelon

Mr Alan wrote: »

self professed peoples club with nothing to back it up.
a title stolen from Shankly who refered to Liverpool as the peoples club decades earlier.

So Shankly self-professed liverpool as the people's club as well? A lot of self-professing going on in Merseyside it seems :rolleyes:

DeadSkin

People's club shmeoples club, boooooorrrrrriiiiiiiiiiinnnnnnnnnnggggggg!!!!!!!!

Mr Alan

Third_Echelon wrote: »

So Shankly self-professed liverpool as the people's club as well? A lot of self-professing going on in Merseyside it seems :rolleyes:

Yes he did, he did it when hundrerds of thousands of people turned up to Lime Street station to welcome home the team from a Wembley final, he made a promise to them he would win the league soon (which he obviously did) and professed he would do it because Liverpool were the peoples club and the fact that so many turned up showed that they were.

in summary, he had reason to do it, whereas moyes statement is based on nothing.

Third_Echelon

Mr Alan wrote: »

Yes he did, he did it when hundrerds of thousands of people turned up to Lime Street station to welcome home the team from a Wembley final, he made a promise to them he would win the league soon (which he obviously did) and professed he would do it because Liverpool were the peoples club and the fact that so many turned up showed that they were.

in summary, he had reason to do it, whereas moyes statement is based on nothing.

"I am from a city (Glasgow) that is not unlike Liverpool. I am joining the people's football club. The majority of people you meet on the street are Everton fans. It is a fantastic opportunity, something you dream about. I said 'yes' right away as it is such a big club."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Moyes

Anyway... You're not worth debating issues with... It always results in child-like behaviour...

Mr Alan

only saw this response now....my point is, the majority of the people in Liverpool are not Everton fans, its wat everton fans like to pretend, moyes said it to garner favour, but its not true in the slightest.

oh yea, and the attendance at your game last night was 28,312. thats ****ing shocking.

peoples club my hole. ground share my hole.

jesus_thats_gre

Mr Alan wrote: »

oh yea, and the attendance at your game last night was 28,312. thats ****ing shocking.

peoples club my hole. ground share my hole.

28k? That is a disgrace!

Dub13

Yes 28k against a decent team in Europe is a bit of a joke.These teams (outside the big 4) fight tooth and nail to get into Europe and then threat it with contempt.I just cant understand it.

gixerfixer

Look it's a fact that Everton will fill any shared stadium twice a year. Once against Liverpool and once the last home game of the season when they need 3 points to stay up....AGAIN :pac:. Groundshare,people's club...will ya ever stop FFS.

citytillidie

and the tickets for Everton last night were cheaper the Carling Cup tickets for Liverpools game V Crewe next week

Dub13

citytillidie wrote: »

and the tickets for Everton last night were cheaper the Carling Cup tickets for Liverpools game V Crewe next week

Yes,I drove by Goodison last Sat while on the way to the UTD game and they had a huge sign saying Everton V Liege 25 (could have been 26) pounds.So the club were trying but it looks like the interest is just not there.

Third_Echelon

Mr Alan wrote: »

only saw this response now....my point is, the majority of the people in Liverpool are not Everton fans, its wat everton fans like to pretend, moyes said it to garner favour, but its not true in the slightest.

oh yea, and the attendance at your game last night was 28,312. thats ****ing shocking.

peoples club my hole. ground share my hole.

Did you do a head count of the entire city's population or something? You're speculating at best... Its a fact that you do not know.

I would have expected more, but 28,000 isn't bad for a UEFA cup 1st round game on a Thursday night, which was also shown on TV. Its not exactly the wealthiest part of the world. I read a lot of people complaining/discussing on Everton forums that they weren't going as they couldn't afford it and the away leg in a couple of weeks which a lot seem to be travelling to... The derby game coming up was also their priority. There are a lot of factors. There is a lot of support from North Wales and areas like that, which travel no problem at the weekends, but I can understand not wanting to travel on a work night and the game being on TV as well.

Our UEFA cup run last year had high attendances and the travelling support always sold its allocation. On every occasion we asked for more tickets from the hosting team due to demand..

Home vs Metalist Kharkiv. 37,120.
Home vs AE Larissa. 33,777.
Home vs Zenit St Ptrsbg. 38,407.
Home vs SK Brann. 32,834.
Home vs Fiorentina. 38,026.

I don't think we can base your argument on one game's attendance...

leninbenjamin

goingback to the ground sharing thing; Everton's average attendance this year is about 4k short of filling the stadium. Liverpool's average attendance this year is about 2k short of filling the stadium. the difference between the repspective stadia capacity is less than 5k.

can someone please provide a rationale reason why these clubs aren't capable of ground sharing when they are both desperately crying out for new modern facilities and an increased capacity?

p.s. the answer has nothing to do with filling the ground on a weekly basis. no stadium in the world does this; in fact most don't even come close and still make a healthy profit.

Third_Echelon

leninbenjamin wrote: »

goingback to the ground sharing thing; Everton's average attendance this year is about 4k short of filling the stadium. Liverpool's average attendance this year is about 2k short of filling the stadium. the difference between the repspective stadia capacity is less than 5k.

can someone please provide a rationale reason why these clubs aren't capable of ground sharing when they are both desperately crying out for new modern facilities and an increased capacity?

p.s. the answer has nothing to do with filling the ground on a weekly basis. no stadium in the world does this; in fact most don't even come close and still make a healthy profit.

Good point leninbenjamin. I mentioned earlier in the thread that everton generally don't sell out to capacity as 3-4000 seats have obstructed views in Goodison. They only sell these seats generally for the Liverpool and Man Utd games...

For me anyway, putting all rivalries aside, a groundshare makes the most sense.

Mr Alan

Last few games in Anfield;

Standard Liege:43,889.
Middlesborough:43,889.
Utd:44192
Stoke:43931

couple of hundred in the difference there. The first league game at Anfield (Middlesborough) was 43,889, with the following league game being the exact same capacity. coincidence? or maximum capacity at that time? make up your own mind.

In actual fact i would imagine those were all sell outs, with the capacity shifting slightly depending on demand (eg:44192 the very max they are able to allow), Liverpool sell out virtually every match they play.

Everton sell out two a year.

Evertons last few capacities:

Portsmouth:34,418
Blackburn:38,675
Standard Liege:28,312
=========================

The most important thing here anyway is Liverpool fans do not want a ground share

Economic sense my arse, why would it make economical sense to help our rivals? (or them to help us for that matter)

if the Americans can fund the stadium-great. If they can't, hopefully and most probably, they'll sell up to someone who can and we'll stay at Anfield until that happens.

Everton can continue with their efforts at the joint venture with tesco and move out of Liverpool, or they can stay at goodison.

groundshare shouldnt, and wont happen.

Dub13

All Liverpool home games this season have been sold out,the difference in capacity is only down to different security arrangement's and or away supporters issues.

Daemonic

The fact Everton season tickets are available on their website (must clear that from my internet history, imagine the shame) and there is a waiting list measured in years for Liverpool season tickets is as good an indication as any of the difference in support.

leninbenjamin

on the capacity thing; makes no difference. throughout the years at the San Siro the average capacity of the two clubs fluctuates hugely, often a difference of 20k, yet it was still successful. in fact most groundshares have one leading club and one smaller club. the main thing is that enough attend to fund the cost of maintaining the stadium, but stadia are easily designed to reduce this.

Mr Alan wrote: »

The most important thing here anyway is Liverpool fans do not want a ground share

well, glad we've finally got to the heart of it. and with respect, that's utter crap. Liverpool need a new stadium badly. they need it for the turnover, they need it for the ever increasing corporate demand, they basically need it to expand and make the club large enough to successfully compete with the big money of Man Utd and Chelsea (and now City). now your club on its own can't raise the funds needed. would you really rather stunt your clubs growth just because you don't want to share with Everton?

Mr Alan

i would prefer to continue to lag behind Chelsea and Utd while playing in Anfield than to share a ground with Everton.

I know i'll be in the minority there.

but i dont think that'll happen, i think either the americans will get the finance together for the new stadium, or they will sell to someone who can afford it.

Dub13

leninbenjamin wrote: »

well, glad we've finally got to the heart of it. and with respect, that's utter crap. Liverpool need a new stadium badly?

Yes it is the hart of it and no its not utter crap.Liverpool fans do not want a ground share,yes we need a new stadium badly but I and 99% of Liverpool fans I know (which is alot) will gladly wait ontill the club are in a position to do it ourselves.


This cannot happen on till the Yanks are out.

leninbenjamin

Dub13 wrote: »

Yes it is the hart of it and no its not utter crap.

well maybe crap was the wrong word, but in fairness there's absolutely no logical reason for it other than simple fan rivalry, with i don't think is a good enough reason to add an extra hundred million of debt to the club (and not to mention the potential turnover lost due to the inaction on the stadium). I just think that it's another example of fans passions actually working against the interests of the club.

Dub13

leninbenjamin wrote: »

well maybe crap was the wrong word, but in fairness there's absolutely no logical reason for it other than simple fan rivalry, with i don't think is a good enough reason to add an extra hundred million of debt to the club (and not to mention the potential turnover lost due to the inaction on the stadium). I just think that it's another example of fans passions actually working against the interests of the club.

Your point makes sense if you take a purely financial outlook on this situation,and I am sure some of the money men working for LFC would have the same opinion.But football is much much more than just business,this is why one should never enter football to make a buck.

Karmafaerie

Daemonic wrote: »

The fact Everton season tickets are available on their website (must clear that from my internet history, imagine the shame) and there is a waiting list measured in years for Liverpool season tickets is as good an indication as any of the difference in support.

Yeah, about 7 years I believe, as I'm not half way through the list yet.:(

If Liverpool had a capacity of 60,000, it would sell out a dozen times a year.
If Everton had a capacity of 60,000, it would sell out twice a year.

In a ground sharing set-up, the only games that everton would sell out in an average season, would still only have 30,000 Toffies in the stadium!

Dub13

Karmafaerie wrote: »

Yeah, about 7 years I believe, as I'm not half way through the list yet.:(

The figure talked about for the LFC season ticket waiting list is 15/20 years.Get on the PTS,IMO its much better and cheaper its as good as a season ticket.

Karmafaerie

Dub13 wrote: »

The figure talked about for the LFC season ticket waiting list is 15/20 years.Get on the PTS,IMO its much better and cheaper its as good as a season ticket.

Great, it gets pushed again!
I'm staying on as the wait should shorten dramaticlly as soon as the new stadium (if ever) gets complete.
The PTS is grand for now, but if I had the season ticket, I'd literally be over every week.
I've been so busy this season that I haven't got round to signing up for the PTS yet, but things should be calming down soon.
Hoping to get ovr in the start of Oct.

Dub13

Karmafaerie wrote: »

I've been so busy this season that I haven't got round to signing up for the PTS yet.

You cant just sign up for the PTS its a waiting list,you would be able to go to every home game on the PTS and for 55 pounds a year....plus ticket cost.Thats why its much better than a season ticket it costs much less.

Mr Alan

dub, i think you should infract yourself for OT posting!

Dub13

Mr Alan wrote: »

dub, i think you should infract yourself for OT posting!

Sush.....we may get away with it if nobody says anything.;)

Karmafaerie

Dub13 wrote: »

You cant just sign up for the PTS its a waiting list,you would be able to go to every home game on the PTS and for 55 pounds a year....plus ticket cost.Thats why its much better than a season ticket it costs much less.

Before Dub has to yellow card us all (:p), just wanted to ask, I can still use my fancard right?
They just stopped offering that for new customers.
I've been completely out of touch with the new changes due to personal reasons so far this season.

Mr Alan

yea you can

Karmafaerie

Coolio.
Cheers al.

Dub13

I think you can use the fancard for this season then the fancard is dead and its that membership lark all the way.

Now back on topic.....:)

Mr Alan

.....small club.


only joking

Karmafaerie

Everton had an average home attendance of 36,000 in the 05-06 season, which would be around 90% capacity (Wikifacts, so take with liberal salt pinches).

They obviously would benefit from a bigger stadium, but when Liverpool are talking about a 60,000 capacity raising to 70,000 and maybe even furthur in future, Everton would have no need of it.

The 55,000 capacity stadium they're planning would be perfect for their needs.

Not saying it as a slight or anything, just a fact.
They wouldn't attract the same level of supporters or daytrippers.
Also Because of the name Liverpool has, a lot of away fans will travel to Anfield, that wouldn't be as attracted to a game in Goodison.

leninbenjamin

Karmafaerie wrote: »

Not saying it as a slight or anything, just a fact.

an irrelevant fact. it should have little to no bearing on whether to groundshare or not. it doesn't matter that Everton wouldn't fill it every week, all that matters is that a stadium is built with pooled resources and fulfilling the fundamental need of both clubs, which is a larger stadium and a stadium with much more corporate seating.

the only possible issue that might come from having a stadium with excess capacity is extra maintenance costs. but frankly it's fairly easy to design something that will satisfy both clubs immediate needs and keep costs down. the obvious thing might be to design a stadium with two tiers on three of the sides, and only open the tiers as needed. and secondly housing the two clubs in one stadium will reduce the costs for the respective clubs anyway.

gixerfixer

Cant believe people here would seriously think the greatest and most successful football club ever to play the game in britain would ever share a ground with a club as small as Everton. The facts of this are the vast majority of Liverpool and Everton fans would fight tooth and nail against any such plan. The idea will never come to light. Silly discussion TBH.

gixerfixer

leninbenjamin wrote: »

goingback to the ground sharing thing; Everton's average attendance this year is about 4k short of filling the stadium. Liverpool's average attendance this year is about 2k short of filling the stadium. the difference between the repspective stadia capacity is less than 5k.

can someone please provide a rationale reason why these clubs aren't capable of ground sharing when they are both desperately crying out for new modern facilities and an increased capacity?

p.s. the answer has nothing to do with filling the ground on a weekly basis. no stadium in the world does this; in fact most don't even come close and still make a healthy profit.

What are you on about? Liverpool have sold out every home game this season and the fact of the matter is that they could fill the stadium twice over for most home games this season. The reason they are a few short of capacity in a couple of games is security reasons not fans not going. Everton just cant sell out Goodison for home games because they dont have the support within the city and on a worldwide basis. Ask a kid on the streets of Rio or Baghdad who Liverpool are and they will be able to tell you most of the time..ask the same question about Everton and they will look at you and scratch their head.