New Liverpool Stadium Is Likely To Be Off

Third_Echelon

Daemonic wrote: »

The fact Everton season tickets are available on their website (must clear that from my internet history, imagine the shame) and there is a waiting list measured in years for Liverpool season tickets is as good an indication as any of the difference in support.

Why should season ticket sales be an indication of club support? It says to me that there is a different type of support and a different ticket buying culture among Everton fans than there is to Liverpool fans. We still have good attendances for Premier league games.

I don't buy a season ticket as it would be a waste for me as I can't go every week, so I'm in the evertonia supporters club, which gives me 2 weeks advance on general sale, so I can get a ticket for any game pretty much. It seems to be the way a lot of Everton fans buy their tickets...

Again cost is a big thing for fans... 1 adult and 2 kids for season tickets at everton is going to cost you £550 + £280 + £280 = £1,110 (which is a lot of cash for the average family). This 1 adult and 2 kids trend seems to be pretty common at most games I've been at with regards to demographics. I'm not sure about the average Liverpool fans demographics... Mostly individuals perhaps? I don't know?

Our official capacity is 40,157. 3-4,000 of these seats have obstructed views and generally only sell for the big games. So for the sake of argument, lets say goodison's capacity is 37,500. Our premier league attendances this season have been 38,675 and 34,418.

07/08 average for premier league 37,000
06/07 average for premier league 37,000
05/06 average for premier league 37,000
03/04 average for premier league 37,000

So you can see we do have a constant level of support. We wouldn't be considering moving to a bigger stadium if the demand for improved facilities and capacity wasn't there.

Mr Alan wrote: »

i would prefer to continue to lag behind Chelsea and Utd while playing in Anfield than to share a ground with Everton.

<snip>

Bitter much?

You obviously have the best interests of your club at heart.

leninbenjamin wrote: »

well maybe crap was the wrong word, but in fairness there's absolutely no logical reason for it other than simple fan rivalry, with i don't think is a good enough reason to add an extra hundred million of debt to the club (and not to mention the potential turnover lost due to the inaction on the stadium). I just think that it's another example of fans passions actually working against the interests of the club.

Have to agree... Its gets in the way of a lot of these decisions. If you take a step back and take a look at the bigger picture, I reckon most fans would share our view leninbenjamin.

Karmafaerie wrote: »

<snip>

If Liverpool had a capacity of 60,000, it would sell out a dozen times a year.
If Everton had a capacity of 60,000, it would sell out twice a year.

In a ground sharing set-up, the only games that everton would sell out in an average season, would still only have 30,000 Toffies in the stadium!

If you see my figures from above I can't understand where your 30,000 figure comes from?

Karmafaerie wrote: »

<snip>
Not saying it as a slight or anything, just a fact.
They wouldn't attract the same level of supporters or daytrippers.
Also Because of the name Liverpool has, a lot of away fans will travel to Anfield, that wouldn't be as attracted to a game in Goodison.

I'm just wondering where you are getting all this great info from?

Everton's away supporter section usually sells out. Very rarely have I not seen good away support at an Everton game. Club's hardcore fans will travel to away games no matter who they are playing....

gixerfixer

Mr Alan wrote: »

i would prefer to continue to lag behind Chelsea and Utd while playing in Anfield than to share a ground with Everton.

I know i'll be in the minority there.

but i dont think that'll happen, i think either the americans will get the finance together for the new stadium, or they will sell to someone who can afford it.

I dont think you are in a minority there at all. I've been to Anfield twice this year and i know for a fact Liverpool fans will never agree to a groundshare with Everton and most everton fans are of the same mind. Most real fans would happily lag behind Man U and Chelsea for a while instead of a groundshare. The facts remain the yanks will sell up sooner rather than later and we will stay at Anfield until we move into our own new stadium. Everton will move into the tesco bowl and that will be that.

Third_Echelon

gixerfixer wrote: »

What are you on about? Liverpool have sold out every home game this season and the fact of the matter is that they could fill the stadium twice over for most home games this season. The reason they are a few short of capacity in a couple of games is security reasons not fans not going. Everton just cant sell out Goodison for home games because they dont have the support within the city and on a worldwide basis. Ask a kid on the streets of Rio or Baghdad who Liverpool are and they will be able to tell you most of the time..ask the same question about Everton and they will look at you and scratch their head.

So Everton don't have support in Liverpool? I've heard it all now!

How many times a year to the 'Baghdad Liverpool Supporters Club' make the trip to Anfield?

gixerfixer

Third_Echelon wrote: »

So Everton don't have support in Liverpool? I've heard it all now!

How many times a year to the 'Baghdad Liverpool Supporters Club' make the trip to Anfield?

Are you trying to tell me Everton have even half the support in the city of Liverpool as LFC do?

Third_Echelon

gixerfixer wrote: »

Are you trying to tell me Everton have even half the support in the city of Liverpool as LFC do?

Yes... Have you ever been to Liverpool?

Dub13

I am not doubting you Third_Echelon as I have never been to Goodison,but 3-4,000 obstructed view seats seems very high.

leninbenjamin

gixerfixer wrote: »

What are you on about? Liverpool have sold out every home game this season and the fact of the matter is that they could fill the stadium twice over for most home games this season. The reason they are a few short of capacity in a couple of games is security reasons not fans not going.

well it doesn't say that on the sites that give the stats

gixerfixer wrote: »

Everton just cant sell out Goodison for home games because they dont have the support within the city and on a worldwide basis.

hehe, you'll happily point out the security arrangements but also happily ignore the few thousand or so seats at Goodison with restricted views?

gixerfixer wrote: »

Ask a kid on the streets of Rio or Baghdad who Liverpool are and they will be able to tell you most of the time..ask the same question about Everton and they will look at you and scratch their head.

doesn't mean Everton can't grow, which is why you'd build them a new stadium in the first place. extra turnover leading to some higher profile players and finally push for that European spot, no reason why in the future people wouldn't know of them just like they know of the once successful team who live off past glories

edit: Dub13, looking at some photos of Goodison i think the number might actually be true. pillars everywhere.

Bluetonic

Dub13 wrote: »

I am not doubting you Third_Echelon as I have never been to Goodison,but 3-4,000 obstructed view seats seems very high.

10% or 4,000 seats are sold at reduce prices due to being badly obstructed. The figure where seats are even mildly obstructed would be higher.

The upper Bullens and upper Gwladys after the first couple of rows nearly even seat is obstructed mildly.

The main stand, it being the first triple decker stand in a British stadium, is held up by two very wide steel pieces which cause partial obstruction to all seats behind.

The last 5/6 rows of the lower Bullens and lower Gwladys are obstructed by the floor of the upper levels. It's possible to only see the ball once it's less than 5 meters or so off the ground.

The Park end of 6,000 capacity is the only stand with no obstructed views.

Ask any away fan who's been in the away section of Woodison what the views are like. They go there because of the atmosphere not cause of being able to see the game.

Bluetonic

gixerfixer wrote: »

Are you trying to tell me Everton have even half the support in the city of Liverpool as LFC do?

I've hear it all now.

There is absolutely no denying that within the city of Liverpool there is a far greater support of Everton than Liverpool.

By all means have the debate about the stadium but don't throw in silly uneducated statements about the people of the city of Liverpool.

gixerfixer wrote: »

Everton will move into the tesco bowl and that will be that.

This really stands out as saying something you know very little about. If you think the Tesco development will get the go ahead you've little knowledge about it.

Third_Echelon

Bluetonic wrote: »

10% or 4,000 seats are sold at reduce prices due to being badly obstructed. The figure where seats are even mildly obstructed would be higher.

The upper Bullens and upper Gwladys after the first couple of rows nearly even seat is obstructed mildly.

The main stand, it being the first triple decker stand in a British stadium, is held up by two very wide steel pieces which cause partial obstruction to all seats behind.

The last 5/6 rows of the lower Bullens and lower Gwladys are obstructed by the floor of the upper levels. It's possible to only see the ball once it's less than 5 meters or so off the ground.

The Park end of 6,000 capacity is the only stand with no obstructed views.

Ask any away fan who's been in the away section of Woodison what the views are like. They go there because of the atmosphere not cause of being able to see the game.

I love the 'Grand Old Lady', but the amount of restricted views is a right pain in the arse!

I generally go to the Park End or lower main stands....

Dub13

leninbenjamin wrote: »

well it doesn't say that on the sites that give the stats

If you don't believe us just have a read of the tickets threads for each game on Irishkop,don't mind what the stats say I now lads who were on the look out for tickets for each home game and could not get them via the club as they were sold out.

Middlesborough Tickets

Standard Liege

No point in putting up a thread on the Utd game as we all know it would sell out ten times over.

Stoke Tickets

Bluetonic

Just looking at a few post regarding the 28k attendance last Thursday for the UEFA cup game.

It's quite hard for a fan base from one of the poorest parts of the UK to cough up for games outside of their season tickets. Obviously Liverpool have no problems filling their stadium considering a vast amount of their attending fans are far removed from the economic situation in the city of Liverpool.

Of course some of that statement might not be true, but as far as I can see the thread has been a discussion based on emotion and very little fact. There are probably some people on this thread who understand the workings of the city of Liverpool, Everton football Club, and Liverpool football club but I doubt anyone will be unbiased enough to discuss the subject intelligently.

As an Everton fan I don't care for the goings on of those from across the park, why would I? Why would they care about us? I don't know, but a lot seem to.

There is a lovely little quote I came across recently from that Liverpool great Bill Shankly. Upon his retirement from the Anfield bootroom, Shankly was all but cut off by the club, this is what he had to say about it: "I have not been short of invitations to other clubs and have been received more warmly by Everton than I have by Liverpool."

In the words of a Liverpudlian, "Liverpool Football Club - The Peoples club.....my arse" :rolleyes:

Third_Echelon

Dub13 wrote: »

If you don't believe us just have a read of the tickets threads for each game on Irishkop,don't mind what the stats say I now lads who were on the look out for tickets for each home game and could not get them via the club as they were sold out.

Middlesborough Tickets

Standard Liege

No point in putting up a thread on the Utd game as we all know it would sell out ten times over.

Stoke Tickets

Need to sign-up for that site before you can read the threads... I don't think I will. Don't want my computer to become infected

Dub13

Third_Echelon wrote: »

Need to sign-up for that site before you can read the threads... I don't think I will. Don't want my computer to become infected

Sorry I forgot the Tickets and Travel forum is set so only members can read it,the jest of the point anyway is every game sells out on the phones and on line when it goes to general sale.

The attendance figures can be taken whatever way you want but I can asure you for most games if you are not season ticket holder or PTS member its hell trying to get tickets for Liverpool games.And the incompetent ticket office does not help.

Mr Alan

Bluetonic wrote: »

There is absolutely no denying that within the city of Liverpool there is a far greater support of Everton than Liverpool.

nonsense.

back it up with one "fact".

how many people lined the streets of Liverpool when we won the CL in 2005?

as TE said, it doesnt make sense for out of town fans to buy season tickets as they wont be able to go every week. using that same train of thought, if Everton have a "far greater support" in Liverpool, how come i can buy a season ticket now online?

or if i buy get one if i sign a certain mobile phone contract get one? but yet Liverpool have a 20 odd year waiting list? how come we sell out our midweek CL qualifier games? where as yous have 15 odd thousand empty seats when the tickets are being sold at reduced prices?

I have nothing but common sense to back it up, but i would imagine there is quite a lot more Liverpool fans in the city of Liverpool than there is Everton fans.

Hobart

Mr Alan wrote: »

nonsense.

back it up with one "fact".

how many people lined the streets of Liverpool when we won the CL in 2005?

as TE said, it doesnt make sense for out of town fans to buy season tickets as they wont be able to go every week. using that same train of thought, if Everton have a "far greater support" in Liverpool, how come i can buy a season ticket now online?

or if i buy get one if i sign a certain mobile phone contract get one? but yet Liverpool have a 20 odd year waiting list? how come we sell out our midweek CL qualifier games? where as yous have 15 odd thousand empty seats when the tickets are being sold at reduced prices?

I have nothing but common sense to back it up, but i would imagine there is quite a lot more Liverpool fans in the city of Liverpool than there is Everton fans.

Hmmmm I dunno. I've been to Liverpool about 70 times, and to away games about 50 times. I also worked in Chester and Liverpool (for a short time) and I would tend to agree that the city of Liverpool would be more blue than red. I have no facts to back this up, just a general impression I get from being around the place.

I've been in Goodison for 2 derby games, and the restricted views are a reality, it's not a very well designed stadium (although it's location in Liverpool is very similar to Anfield).

Because of the huge gulf in terms of success of both teams, Liverpool are the more popular team, and certainly would attract more fans outside of Liverpool than the toffees, but it would be my opinion, that the city is a little bit more blue than red, but it matters sfa tbh.

Dub13

I think we can leave this there are more red/blue fans in Liverpool because simply their is no way to tell everybody is expressing an opinion and thats all it is.What we need is this to be a question on the next census forums in the city.

citytillidie

Bluetonic wrote: »

Just looking at a few post regarding the 28k attendance last Thursday for the UEFA cup game.

It's quite hard for a fan base from one of the poorest parts of the UK to cough up for games outside of their season tickets. Obviously Liverpool have no problems filling their stadium considering a vast amount of their attending fans are far removed from the economic situation in the city of Liverpool.

Of course some of that statement might not be true, but as far as I can see the thread has been a discussion based on emotion and very little fact. There are probably some people on this thread who understand the workings of the city of Liverpool, Everton football Club, and Liverpool football club but I doubt anyone will be unbiased enough to discuss the subject intelligently.

As an Everton fan I don't care for the goings on of those from across the park, why would I? Why would they care about us? I don't know, but a lot seem to.

There is a lovely little quote I came across recently from that Liverpool great Bill Shankly. Upon his retirement from the Anfield bootroom, Shankly was all but cut off by the club, this is what he had to say about it: "I have not been short of invitations to other clubs and have been received more warmly by Everton than I have by Liverpool."

In the words of a Liverpudlian, "Liverpool Football Club - The Peoples club.....my arse" :rolleyes:

Tickets for the UEFA Cup game last week were cheaper than tickets for Liverpools Carling Cup game V Crewe for tomorrow night

Mr Alan

Bluetonic, just on that Shankly quote....are you aware of the context it was said in? just out of curiousity?

it was after Lhe had left Liverpool, and he was finding it difficult to cut his ties, he was turning up to training every day in his gear and all, Paisley and his other mates asked him not to. Obviously its not a nice thing but it had to be done.

i'd prefer to remember a couple of his other quotes;

"there is only 2 clubs in this city, Liverpool and Liverpools reserves"

or

"if Everton were playing in my back garden.....i'd close the curtains"

Bluetonic

Mr Alan wrote: »

nonsense.
back it up with one "fact".

Seriously what sort of "fact" can be produced to back that up? It's a common knowledge in and around the city, 20 years of my experiences and many more years of others both blue and red from these isles will tell you that.

Mr Alan wrote: »

how many people lined the streets of Liverpool when we won the CL in 2005?

I'm not sure, load probably. Not sure whats this has got to do with anything? I was on the streets of Liverpool when the 3 trophies were paraded in 2001, I'd been at the Everton v Sunderland game that weekend. Am I counted as a red?

Mr Alan wrote: »

if Everton have a "far greater support" in Liverpool, how come i can buy a season ticket now online?

There are 28,000 odd season ticket holders, leaving around 10,000 'unsold' seats as season tickets. We know 4,000 of these are severely obscured as per previous posts and the majority of the remaining 6,000 have some sort of minor obscurity. Would you pay 500GBP for a seat in a stadium where you can't see the event in comfort and your already one of the poorest people in the country? Couple this with the running of the club since early 1990s (I won't go into it, it's all in the public domain) and the number of people who refuse to buy a season ticket when Kirby is still on the agenda and Bull**** Bill is still at the helm then you might start to get your head around it.

Please don't come back with any requests for a "fact" or anything like that, it stinks of someone who's struggling to come to terms with adult life and can't take a discussion at face value. I have absolutely nothing to gain by spending an evening making up rubbish.

Have a read of one of the premier league fan surveys like the 2003/2004 Season if you want loads of facts. Some are that Everton supporters are some of the poorest in the county and come from the lowest social standings, Everton fans travel less distance than Liverpool fans to home games, more Everton fans walk to games than Liverpool fans, higher amount of Everton fans living within 20 miles of the ground then Liverpool fans, less time take to travel to home games by Everton fans than Liverpool fans... I could go on but I suppose the premier league survey can be interpreted in any number of ways :rolleyes:

Mr Alan

Bluetonic wrote: »

It's a common knowledge in and around the city, 20 years of my experiences and many more years of others both blue and red from these isles will tell you that

its common knowledge among Everton fans you mean!

Liverpool fans from the city disagree totally!

i am speaking from my own experiences when i say i think there is more Liverpool fans, but this is OT and as Dub13 said, not something either of us can prove beyond doubt.

lets just agree to disagree.

Karmafaerie

Third_Echelon wrote: »

If you see my figures from above I can't understand where your 30,000 figure comes from?

Ahhhm, cause if it was a 60,000 capacity stadium, and Liverpool were playing Everton, do you think Everton would be allocated more tickets or someting?!;)

60,000 capacity.
30,000 for Liverpool.
30,000 for Everton

Third_Echelon wrote: »

I'm just wondering where you are getting all this great info from?

Everton's away supporter section usually sells out. Very rarely have I not seen good away support at an Everton game. Club's hardcore fans will travel to away games no matter who they are playing....

So you away fans, go to Goodison?!!!!
Do you even read what posts you're quoting?

I said Liverpool fans will travel from all over the world to see Liverpool than Everton fans would to see Everton.
And that teams like Stoke at the weekend, would be more attracted to Anfield than Goodison.
As you so succiently put it, money is an option, and a lot of fans couldn't afford two Merseyside in one season.
Given the option, i'd bet Anfield would be the prefered destination.
If you think not, then you're deluded.

Bluetonic

Mr Alan wrote: »

its common knowledge among Everton fans you mean!

Not thats not what I mean, I'd type something clearly if I meant it.

Mr Alan wrote: »

Liverpool fans from the city disagree totally!

I have had the pleasure of befriending many Liverpool supporters over the year who live in the city of Liverpool, the younger ones like yourself tend to have your opinions on the subject, the older more knowledgeable ones know and speak the truth.

Regarding the stadium issue, a shared stadium is not on the agenda for Everton fans. Confirmation of Kirby knocked out by the HOP inquiry, getting new owners in, looking at redeveloping Goodison or developing the site on Scotland Road are the only things that matter. Good luck to Liverpool with their new stadium when it eventually gets developed - I'm sure it'll be lovely to move into a nice new stadium where you don't have to redecorate after the last tenants

Reading once again through the posts on this thread its struck me that some of the Liverpool fans know very little about the workings of the club I support yet profess to.

I trust it won't be necessary to dig up any more fans survey giving "facts" which might oust the truth

therecklessone

Karmafaerie wrote: »

Ahhhm, cause if it was a 60,000 capacity stadium, and Liverpool were playing Everton, do you think Everton would be allocated more tickets or someting?!;)

60,000 capacity.
30,000 for Liverpool.
30,000 for Everton.

That's not how groud-sharing usually works though, each club would have a home tie with the other having to make do with the away allocation. Otherwise both clubs would be restricted to 30k season ticket holders.

Bluetonic

therecklessone wrote: »

That's not how groud-sharing usually works though, each club would have a home tie with the other having to make do with the away allocation. Otherwise both clubs would be restricted to 30k season ticket holders.

I think it was tongue in cheek?

Anyhow the 30k season ticket restriction won't be an issue to us blues

Guy:Incognito

Karmafaerie wrote: »

Ahhhm, cause if it was a 60,000 capacity stadium, and Liverpool were playing Everton, do you think Everton would be allocated more tickets or someting?!;)

60,000 capacity.
30,000 for Liverpool.
30,000 for Everton
.

What grounds giveaway fans a 50%ticket share? Ground shares work exactly the same as if there was 2 seperate staiums.

Either way, boo urns to ground sharing.

Third_Echelon

Karmafaerie wrote: »

Ahhhm, cause if it was a 60,000 capacity stadium, and Liverpool were playing Everton, do you think Everton would be allocated more tickets or someting?!;)

60,000 capacity.
30,000 for Liverpool.
30,000 for Everton

You quite clearly do not know what you are talking about if this is how you think tickets are allocated in a shared stadium.

Karmafaerie wrote: »

So you away fans, go to Goodison?!!!!
Do you even read what posts you're quoting?

Re-read what I said:

"Everton's away supporter section usually sells out. Very rarely have I not seen good away support at an Everton game. Club's hardcore fans will travel to away games no matter who they are playing...."

I said the away supporter section at Everton. Perhaps I should have said (to be a bit more clear), the away section at Goodison.

Karmafaerie wrote: »

I said Liverpool fans will travel from all over the world to see Liverpool than Everton fans would to see Everton.

So you are telling me that Liverpool fans travel from all over the world every week to go to Anfield. I think if you examine your statement you will find that the main 'day trippers' from outside the UK that travel to see Liverpool and Everton are mainly from Ireland, Sweden, Norway, Denmark and Finland.

There are lots of Everton fans in Asia for example, particularly Singapore and Malaysia. USA as well.... Everton have toured extensively in the USA for the past few years and have picked up quite a few 'fans' there.. These groups will at most makes trips to Goodison, once per season due to the distance. I'm sure its the same for Liverpool supporters groups in these regions.

Karmafaerie wrote: »

And that teams like Stoke at the weekend, would be more attracted to Anfield than Goodison.
As you so succiently put it, money is an option, and a lot of fans couldn't afford two Merseyside in one season.
Given the option, i'd bet Anfield would be the prefered destination.
If you think not, then you're deluded.

I'm deluded? Ha!

What exactly attracts Stoke fans to Anfield? They are a team that has just been promoted to the top flight for the first time in something like 25 years. Their fans are going to travel to EVERY away game in numbers.

And with regard to cost, to you think that the Stoke away supporters that were at Anfield this weekend and earned a great point will be the exact same individuals that will travel to all other stoke away games this season? Na.... Don't think so.

Stoke is no more than 60 miles from Merseyside. Not exactly breaking the bank for away fans, now is it?

If you look at Merseyside in relation to other premier league clubs, you will find that there are quite a few premiership clubs that are not that far away.

Stoke City 64 Miles
Manchester City 35 Miles
Manchester Utd 35 Miles
Blackburn Rovers 41 Miles
Wigan Athletic 22 Miles
Bolton Wanderers 36 Miles
Liverpool (The team in our old stadium) 1 Mile

So for Everton and Liverpool, one third of their games for their fans to travel to and vice-versa are within close proximity...

How deluded am I again? :rolleyes:

x in the city

well from my opinion a ground share on mars is more likely to happen than on merseyside.

the problem in merseyside is down to one thing, money.. kudos, cash..

LFC need a new stadium to become the new Arsenal.,

Everton need a new stadium, because, erm, Goodison is the oldest in the top flight and a dump.

Neither of these teams have won a title for eons ( Liverpool not so far ahead of Everton in fact), and you would have to be a very brave man to say the Liverpools time is this year.

Everton you have to realise are the only team to have even tried to breach the top 4 monolopy in recent times, thats from a club playing in a dump and having hardly no cash, so no mean feat and the reason DM is to become very wealthy soon.

Liverpool have had the luxury of the investors in recent times with millions of cash to spend. Everton have had the luxury of an eluded charman with a good few millions at his disposal.

So, its not fair to compare the clubs really as its blatantly obvious that pool have far more money., but at the end of the day success in winning a league title is a distant dream for both clubs right now.

*damn, I always loved the 80s.....

Dub13

Liverpool's Rick Parry rejects groundshare with Everton talk


The Echo

RICK PARRY today rejected claims from council leader Warren Bradley that Liverpool's attitude towards a shared stadium is "softening".

In an interview with a Sunday newspaper at the weekend, Cllr Bradley spoke of his hope that the two clubs will eventually come together and build "a Wembley of the North".

Citing the failure of both Liverpool and Everton to realise their ambitions to build much longed-for new stadiums of their own and the ongoing effects of the credit crunch, Cllr Bradley insisted the time has come to stop "dancing around the elephant in the room" and consider sharing.

But Reds chief executive Parry insists there has been no softening of Liverpool's official stance and remains adamant that only if the fans want it would a shared stadium even be considered.

He said: "There has been no change in attitude in any way, shape or form because there has been no change in our supporters' attitude.

"This is the nub of the argument – that this is not what the fans want."

Cllr Bradley argued: "Everton and Liverpool are both playing in stadia a hundred years on. It is time to move forward.

"The best thing is for each club to have their own ground and remain in the city. But if that isn't feasible because of the credit crunch, something must happen.

"We all dance around the elephant in the room and if neither club has a new stadia in 15 years time, people will ask why.

"You could have a Liverpool village where Anfield is now, an Everton village where Goodison is and a stadium that is the Wembley of the north.

"We have the Olympics in London in 2012 and a World Cup bid for 2018. It is common sense that Liverpool as a city could be at the heart of it."

Liverpool's owners Tom Hicks and George Gillett have both gone on the record about their opposition to sharing a stadium and it would take a U-turn of monumental proportions for the American duo even to consider it.

Their focus at present is more likely to be on the ongoing crisis in the US and global banking system which shows no sign of letting up.

Yesterday, the banking operation American investment corporation Wachovia – which allowed Hicks and Gillett to borrow the cash down payment they needed to secure a refinancing package with the Royal Bank of Scotland last February – was bought out by Citigroup.

Wachovia had been on the brink of collapse but their liabilities and assets will now pass into the hands of Citigroup, which paid $2.2bn dollars to complete the deal.

RBS itself suffered stock market losses yesterday with shares down 12.7%.

Third_Echelon

Bradley is right to be honest... Everton and Liverpool could still be sitting in Anfield and Goodison in 15 years time quite easily...

Again, its stubbornness getting in the way of sense among fans and owners...

~Rebel~

Nothing can be decided before January when G&H can reevaluate their position.

They can't commit to a groundshare now, if in a few months time they'll most likely need to sell the club to people who can afford to build their own stadium.

With Wachovia bought over, and banks in general worldwide needing to get money in so they can get back to trading, i couldn't see their refinancing deadline being extended when the world and their dog know that if they're forced to sell, theres a buyer ready and willing to pay what is effectively an inflated price anyway.

G&H themselves would be mad not to sell as well, considering they have an asset that isn't falling in value and will still net them a massive profit on their outlay, despite their hilarious mismanagement of the finances over the past 2 years. They cant hang about as if the Dubai interest goes away, they simply Won't get the same return. Noone bar some crazy oligarch or something could invest so far above the odds in the current climate for a club that's needlessly in over 300million of debt with another substantial outlay needed to begin new stadium work.

I can see events escalating sooner rather then later.

Mr Alan

Third_Echelon wrote: »

Bradley is right to be honest... Everton and Liverpool could still be sitting in Anfield and Goodison in 15 years time quite easily...

Again, its stubbornness getting in the way of sense among fans and owners...

wat part of this dont you understand?

Football Clubs should exist to make their fans happy, that should be wat they try to achieve. Liverpool fans DO NOT WANT A GROUNDSHARE even if it means staying in Anfield another 15 years.

So the real question is would you be happy to sell your soul in order to achieve success, most clubs already have pretty much already done that incl Liverpool & Everton, a ground share would be a step too far. If Liverpool and Everton share a ground i'll stop following em, i'd imagine a lot of reds would be of the same opinion.

leninbenjamin

Mr Alan wrote: »

If Liverpool and Everton share a ground i'll stop following em, i'd imagine a lot of reds would be of the same opinion.

really? why? i thought you're a supporter of a team not a stadium...

Third_Echelon

Mr Alan wrote: »

wat part of this dont you understand?

Football Clubs should exist to make their fans happy, that should be wat they try to achieve. Liverpool fans DO NOT WANT A GROUNDSHARE even if it means staying in Anfield another 15 years.

Jesus! I was just commenting on the article and its content... Get a grip FFS!

I'm well aware of what fans are saying. I was commenting on their stupidity :rolleyes:

Mr Alan wrote: »

So the real question is would you be happy to sell your soul in order to achieve success, most clubs already have pretty much already done that incl Liverpool & Everton, a ground share would be a step too far. If Liverpool and Everton share a ground i'll stop following em, i'd imagine a lot of reds would be of the same opinion.

How am I "selling my soul" to achieve success? I don't see a groundshare as "selling my soul"! Did AC Milan And Inter Milan "sell their soul" when they moved in together? What about Torino and Juve? (They have shared on and off over the years, they are currently doing it while del alpi is being rebuilt). Roma and Lazio? All big cities with two big clubs... At the end of the day its just a bloody stadium where you play every week. The only time you would see Everton fans in it would be twice a season at the derby games... You quite clearly cannot seem to put things into perspective.

I would be quite happy if Everton had their own new stadium, but in current climates, for both teams it seems as this option is getting less and less likely.

So you are saying you are not a real Liverpool fan? You'd give up supporting the team you obviously don't really love over them sharing a ground with Everton? Ha Ha! I thought I'd heard it all from you, but this is really showing your true colours... You're a bitter, bitter man (or boy)

DeadSkin

Mr Alan wrote: »

If Liverpool and Everton share a ground i'll stop following em, i'd imagine a lot of reds would be of the same opinion.

You'd seriously just stop following a club you obviously feel passionate about just like that?
I wouldn't.
To me it's all about the success on the pitch and what can be put in the trophy cabinet at the end of each season. Wouldn't really care if it was all achieved on a ground that we shared with Everton.

quarryman

Mr Alan wrote: »

If Liverpool and Everton share a ground i'll stop following em, i'd imagine a lot of reds would be of the same opinion.

ha! No i reckon the proper fans would stick by the club. I know i would for my team.

But it would be interesting to see all the bandwagon supporters evaporate if it did happen.

monkey9

There's no way i'd stop supporting Liverpool because of a groundshare. I don't want it to happen, but to stop supporting them???? That's nonsense!

Mr Alan

DeadSkin wrote: »

You'd seriously just stop following a club you obviously feel passionate about just like that?

yep....i think so, obviously i cant say for sure, but i can promise my love would cool down a little.

DeadSkin wrote: »

To me it's all about the success on the pitch and what can be put in the trophy cabinet at the end of each season. Wouldn't really care if it was all achieved on a ground that we shared with Everton.

To me success on the pitch is not really relevant as long as the club maintains the things that made me love it. sharing a ground with Everton is most certainly not part of that.

quarryman

folks, i think we're gonna need a bigger thread.

Mr Alan

quarryman wrote: »

But it would be interesting to see all the bandwagon supporters evaporate if it did happen.

tbh, i think you have that totally backwards. I think the bandwagoners wouldnt care as long as success was maintained. Its the people who genuinely love the club and wat it stands for that would be most hurt by a ground share.

Third_Echelon

quarryman wrote: »

ha! No i reckon the proper fans would stick by the club. I know i would for my team.

But it would be interesting to see all the bandwagon supporters evaporate if it did happen.

Liverpool have bandwagon supporters??? :P

quarryman wrote: »

folks, i think we're gonna need a bigger thread.

I don't know if we could have the same thread for the discussion though... Quite clearly Liverpool fans don't want to share a thread with Everton fans.

The proposal should be that the Everton thread should have a maximum of 5 pages, as they'd never post that much anyway...

And Liverpool should have an 8 page thread, as they'd fill that every week no problem...

< I'll get my coat >

pesireland

screw this ground share business, everton can find there own stadium, i'm quite happy to stay at anfield anyway

daosulli

Sharing with everton has to be Plan Z. ( if its even an option )
New stadium would be class . . but I can see us at Anfleld for a long time.

Dont be at yourself

If only Anfield could be redeveloped. What's the reasoning against this? Is it to do with transport links or residence objections? I know Liverpool own a lot of the land around Anfield, so there is certainly the room for it.

Third_Echelon

NekkidBibleMan wrote: »

If only Anfield could be redeveloped. What's the reasoning against this? Is it to do with transport links or residence objections? I know Liverpool own a lot of the land around Anfield, so there is certainly the room for it.

Basically it is land-locked by streets of houses....

I think you are correct in saying that Liverpool FC have bought up some of these properties over the years, but I don't think they own enough land to build a bigger stadium in the footprint that they have.

Everton are stuck in the same situation

citytillidie

It only seems to be Everton who want the ground share.

As for talking about how it works in Italy and Germany there is a completly different story they have been doing it for years and weather in Italy is better, only have to look at when Palace and Wimbledon were sharing a ground look at the state of the pitch during the winter.

mayordenis

Any real Liverpool fan would be very annoyed but they would not for a second question there continued support of the team.

Mr Alan

NekkidBibleMan wrote: »

If only Anfield could be redeveloped. What's the reasoning against this? Is it to do with transport links or residence objections? I know Liverpool own a lot of the land around Anfield, so there is certainly the room for it.

as far as i am aware that main reason against the redeveloping Anfield is the major loss in revenue due to decreased capacities while the work would be under going.

There is also meant to be problems with the infrastructure and the power supply in the area-but these last two confuse me somewhat seen as the proposed new development in stanley park is only a few hundred metres from Anfield.

The only time i would advocate a groundshare would be for a season or two while we redevelop Anfield.

Dont be at yourself

The most important thing here anyway is Liverpool fans do not want a ground share

That's not even close to being the most important thing. The Liverpool fans didn't want the yanks talking to Klinnsman, didn't want Rafa being undermined, and din't want to have to sell to buy last summer. That didn't enter the equation though.

Economic sense my arse, why would it make economical sense to help our rivals? (or them to help us for that matter)

It's amazing how many Liverpool fans have become economists and financial analysts over the last couple of years. Nobody here is particularly au fait with the financial realities of the club, of building a stadium, or of groundsharing. However, surely the money saved on a groundshare (both in building and running the stadium) would hugely engulf any possible advantage given to our 'rivals' - lets be realistic, Everton aren't to surpass Liverpool on the back of a cheaper stadium.

if the Americans can fund the stadium-great. If they can't, hopefully and most probably, they'll sell up to someone who can and we'll stay at Anfield until that happens.

That's all speculation. It's just as possible that if they can't fund their own stadium, they'll approach Everton for a groundshare - remember that such a move would be significantly cheaper, even before you take into account possible public money. At the end of the day, if they can get a stadium developed and increase their match-day income, the value of the club is going to go up.

I'm not for groundshare by any means. But that doesn't mean it's not a possibility, nor does it mean I would stop supporting them if it were to happen. Who did we inherit Anfield from, again?

Mr Alan

NekkidBibleMan wrote: »

That's not even close to being the most important thing. The Liverpool fans didn't want the yanks talking to Klinnsman, didn't want Rafa being undermined, and din't want to have to sell to buy last summer. That didn't enter the equation though.

I was only commenting on wats the most important thing for me.
People were trying to persuade Liverpool fans that the joint stadium was the best thing. I was simply pointing out that if Liverpool fans dont want it-how can it possibly be the best thing.

NekkidBibleMan wrote: »

I'm not for groundshare by any means. But that doesn't mean it's not a possibility, nor does it mean I would stop supporting them if it were to happen. Who did we inherit Anfield from, again?

It is of course a possibility, although to be honest, the constant denials from our "custodians" and the club (including one today) that there is any interest in the ground share would lead me to believe that we have no intention of going down this road, it would truely make their position near impossible and the level of hatred toward them would be beyond belief, even compared to wat it is now. TBH it seems almost like its just the one lad on the Merseyside council who is constantly pushing for the groundshare, all other parties involved seemed to have rejected the idea flat out and left it at that.