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Obama full speech DNCC Denver 28 Aug 08

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    #2
    Manic Moran
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 16,401 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    I listened to it on the radio. There is no doubt he's a good speechifier, even if you don't agree with some of the points or consider them to be blatant posturing.

    I'm not sure if the BBC commentator was taking the piss or approving. "That's the second good joke he's made so far" and "Obama is now making his rhetorical statements which are so appreciated by the Democratic party" through comparing Obama as the D's next JFK and MLK.

    I'm going to hold off on any major comments until I hear the counter-speech next week by McCain, but two things particularly popped out. One is the comment that he was willing to take on McCain in a debate at any time. Is this an announcement of a reversal of his position? Up until now he has declined McCain's invitations for a less structured form of debate: It has generally been accepted that Obama's far better at structured events (One of the reasons I'm cautious about him), and McCain's strength is off-the cuff.

    The other is that I'm.. well... a little scared. Not so much of Obama, but I'm very disconcerted by the 'cult of personality' which has formed around him. I mean, did you hear the crowd in the background? Now, whilst bearing in mind that you've got to be a fairly die-hard Democrat to go to Denver to attend the DNC to begin with, I can see enthusiasm and support, but I am cautious of any situation where a politician rides a wave of support of that level. I don't want a showman or a messiah in the White House.

    NTM


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    #3
    juvenal
    Registered Users Posts: 2,155 ✭✭✭juvenal


    Here's the YouTube version for those of you who didn't/couldn't install the plugin

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZCrIeRkMhA


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    #4
    wiredup
    Closed Accounts Posts: 94 ✭✭wiredup


    Manic Moran wrote: »
    I listened to it on the radio. There is no doubt he's a good speechifier, even if you don't agree with some of the points or consider them to be blatant posturing.

    I'm not sure if the BBC commentator was taking the piss or approving. "That's the second good joke he's made so far" and "Obama is now making his rhetorical statements which are so appreciated by the Democratic party" through comparing Obama as the D's next JFK and MLK.

    I'm going to hold off on any major comments until I hear the counter-speech next week by McCain, but two things particularly popped out. One is the comment that he was willing to take on McCain in a debate at any time. Is this an announcement of a reversal of his position? Up until now he has declined McCain's invitations for a less structured form of debate: It has generally been accepted that Obama's far better at structured events (One of the reasons I'm cautious about him), and McCain's strength is off-the cuff.

    The other is that I'm.. well... a little scared. Not so much of Obama, but I'm very disconcerted by the 'cult of personality' which has formed around him. I mean, did you hear the crowd in the background? Now, whilst bearing in mind that you've got to be a fairly die-hard Democrat to go to Denver to attend the DNC to begin with, I can see enthusiasm and support, but I am cautious of any situation where a politician rides a wave of support of that level. I don't want a showman or a messiah in the White House.

    NTM

    Sky news mentioned this morning that any other country that had Obama would be 5 to 1 for him. Only in America can we see this lack of enthusiasm coming from a large amount of people.
    Personally, between MCcain and Obama there is no contest and I cannot get my head round why anyone would have a problem making a choice unless they were racist or several cards short of a full pack.
    A young dynamic intelligent articulate with stunning communications skills and enthusiasm to match or an old tired man singing from the same him sheet as the last 8 years. Clearly this is the easiest choice of a generation and regardless of the candidate, the USA needs a major shift in direction and that is only going to happen with Obama.


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    #5
    Manic Moran
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 16,401 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    Sky news mentioned this morning that any other country that had Obama would be 5 to 1 for him

    Then I suggest he run for office in another country, if he wants an easy win. If he wants to win in the US, he needs to appeal to Americans, not foreigners. Witness his fall in domestic polls after his triumphant European tour. Very popular in Germany, but doesn't do Americans any good.
    Personally, between MCcain and Obama there is no contest and I cannot get my head round why anyone would have a problem making a choice unless they were racist or several cards short of a full pack.

    Maybe some of us dislike more of his policies more than we dislike those of the other guy?

    NTM


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    #6
    cooker3
    Registered Users Posts: 6,646 ✭✭✭cooker3


    wiredup wrote: »
    Personally, between MCcain and Obama there is no contest and I cannot get my head round why anyone would have a problem making a choice unless they were racist or several cards short of a full pack.

    Yes anyone who likes John McCain is a racist or an idiot.....

    Anyway thought the speech was very done. As an spectacle it really delivered, came across really well with the fireworks, massive crowd etc.
    I think he did the job that was needed


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    #7
    The Raven.
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,008 ✭✭✭The Raven.


    Manic Moran wrote: »
    I'm.. well... a little scared. Not so much of Obama, but I'm very disconcerted by the 'cult of personality' which has formed around him. I mean, did you hear the crowd in the background? Now, whilst bearing in mind that you've got to be a fairly die-hard Democrat to go to Denver to attend the DNC to begin with, I can see enthusiasm and support, but I am cautious of any situation where a politician rides a wave of support of that level. I don't want a showman or a messiah in the White House.

    I’m glad you brought up the subject of the 'cult of personality'. That is indeed an ominous weapon, as history has shown. The overwhelming support for a candidate with no proven track record displays scant regard for leadership qualities in favour of charismatic public image.

    The Denver DNC spectacle complete with fireworks display, popping up from behind a backdrop of Greek Doric columns was more like a scene from a Hollywood, kitsch melodrama than a national political event.

    The power of speechwriters leaves us baffled as to whose ‘personality’ is running this show: the singer or the songwriters. CNN David Green’s comment – ‘In many ways it was less a speech than a symphony…It was a masterpiece’, leaves us wondering if he was confusing it with Handel’s Messiah, or his Fireworks Music, or maybe the Detroit Symphony Orchestra’s version of The Impossible Dream:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRUyVCfFh1U


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    #8
    Jim_Are_Great
    Closed Accounts Posts: 652 ✭✭✭Jim_Are_Great


    The Raven. wrote: »
    I’m glad you brought up the subject of the 'cult of personality'. That is indeed an ominous weapon, as history has shown.
    I don't understand. Are you comparing Obama to dictators, or suggesting he will use his following in a similar way?
    The Raven. wrote: »
    The overwhelming support for a candidate with no proven track record displays scant regard for leadership qualities in favour of charismatic public image.
    I would have said that the ability to inspire enthusiam, motivate masses with words and invoke passion in the apathetic is the epitome of leadership qualities.

    You have to forgive Democrats for getting hyped up about Obama. Look at the past few losing candidates: Kerry, Gore, Mondale, Carter. Nothing to shout about there. For the first time since Kennedy, the rank and file democrats, excluding the disciples of you-know-who, have a candidate that they can really get excited about. Here we have a young, interesting, articulate, attractive man who is pretty much the ideal political product. Sure, the support manifests itself in ways that naysayers find suspicious - popsongs and screaming stadiums - but it's not just because the Obama machine are constructing a zealous cult following. It's partly because the Democrats have what they have been denied for so long: a leader.
    The Raven. wrote: »
    The power of speechwriters leaves us baffled as to whose ‘personality’ is running this show: the singer or the songwriters.
    This is something I have wondered. Obama's speeches are really, really good. Agree with the content or not, but they're so well constructed and delivered. Does anyone know of a way to find out if they're actually Obama's words? From reading his books and things I wouldn't doubt it, but I don't know for sure.
    Manic Moran wrote:
    Maybe some of us dislike more of his policies more than we dislike those of the other guy?
    Excellent.


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    #9
    irish_bob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,271 ✭✭✭irish_bob


    sure , obama can give a great speech but i dont think hes in the same league as bill clinton was , slick willy had it all

    i hope obama wins but only because i think if he doesnt , the democrats may never get back in , on a personal level i really like john mc cain and think it is impossible not to have huge resepct for him , the man exudes integrity


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    #10
    The Raven.
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,008 ✭✭✭The Raven.


    Jim_Are_Great wrote: »
    I don't understand. Are you comparing Obama to dictators, or suggesting he will use his following in a similar way?

    No, I am not ‘comparing Obama to dictators’. The ‘cult of personality’ is also found in democracies. It all depends on how it is used. Unfortunately it gets used successfully in election campaigns and I feel that voters should look beyond the personality in order to make a valid assessment of the capabilities of the nominees. In Obama’s case there is very little else on which to base one’s judgement.

    Jim_Are_Great wrote: »
    I would have said that the ability to inspire enthusiam, motivate masses with words and invoke passion in the apathetic is the epitome of leadership qualities.

    You have a good point here. However, I would see these qualities as only part of the ‘epitome’. The leadership qualities I had in mind were more in relationship to important decision-making and the resulting action taken by world leaders, which affect the whole of society.
    Jim_Are_Great wrote: »
    You have to forgive Democrats for getting hyped up about Obama. Look at the past few losing candidates: Kerry, Gore, Mondale, Carter. Nothing to shout about there. For the first time since Kennedy, the rank and file democrats, excluding the disciples of you-know-who, have a candidate that they can really get excited about. Here we have a young, interesting, articulate, attractive man who is pretty much the ideal political product. Sure, the support manifests itself in ways that naysayers find suspicious - popsongs and screaming stadiums - but it's not just because the Obama machine are constructing a zealous cult following. It's partly because the Democrats have what they have been denied for so long: a leader.

    I think you have hit the nail on the head here. In comparison to those you mention Obama appears more dynamic and ‘interesting’. ‘Articulate’? Well he’s certainly not ‘speechless’ although the profusion of rhetoric is tiresome. ‘Attractive’? That is a matter of subjective opinion, hardly a relevant quality for an ‘ideal’ politician, if there is such a thing.

    In conclusion, you have admitted that ‘the Obama machine are constructing a zealous cult following.’ That is the crux of the matter. Voters appear to be lured by the trappings rather than the hitherto elusive quintessential elements. It would seem advisable to proceed with caution before tendering blind faith in a relatively young, inexperienced enthusiast at this stage of the game.


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    #11
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Read through the speech and it is uplifting in spots and very cleverly structured. I have commented elsewhere on my feelings towards his speeches and really can't face watching him do another "time has come" ramble. I do however, like the fact that he added specifics to his "plans" but I still remain unconvinced by him as do many others including those who get to vote in the election.

    Even so the overdose of promises risks setting him up for a fall especially if he gets in and finds the coffers bare.
    The real negative in the speech for me is his evocation of MLK which I find cynical in the extreme. MLK fought for basic rights, he's just trying to get elected. IMO it just feeds the "cult of personality" commented on above.

    TBH I am not convinced by either but McCain comes across as far more down to earth. So whether voters go for the man with the dreams or the good ole boy remains to be seen. After the GOP convention (assuming it goes ahead ) the campaign will finally get going. Been a long time coming.

    EDIT: GOP Convention shortened due to Hurricane Gustav.


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    #12
    Sand
    Registered Users Posts: 12,588 ✭✭✭✭Sand


    One interesting point that was made was that whereas Kerry for example was escorted to accept the nomination by veterans [ as a none to subtle advertisement of his leadership etc etc] and had a list of democrats hailing his achievements, Obama couldnt have any political figure deliver a testimony on his behalf based on a working relationship that would demonstrate Obamas credentials as a lawmaker and a person who gets things done. There are none who could do so as Obamas barely stopped campaigning for a Presidential shot since he got into the senate 4 years ago. His entire pitch is based on Obamas self-crafted image alone.

    Essentially this is the guy whose roots in politics are so shallow that he couldnt get a ticket for the DNC 8 years ago. Now the Dems have entrusted the future of the party for the next 4 years to him, based on his [ undeniable] charisma alone. Its a risky, risky play by them.


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    #13
    Manic Moran
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 16,401 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    Damned if I know how Worldnet ended up with an op-ed piece by Chuck Norris about the DNC speech, but here it is. Some points I agree with, some less so.

    http://worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=74001

    Of course, being Chuck Norris, he didn't actually write the article. He dictated it to his computer and the Internet reformed itself to show the words online.

    NTM


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    #14
    Jim_Are_Great
    Closed Accounts Posts: 652 ✭✭✭Jim_Are_Great


    Man, some people should really stick to roundhouse kicks.


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    #15
    The Raven.
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,008 ✭✭✭The Raven.


    Manic Moran wrote: »
    Damned if I know how Worldnet ended up with an op-ed piece by Chuck Norris about the DNC speech, but here it is. Some points I agree with, some less so.

    http://worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=74001

    NTM

    I must say I found the article very well written. I think it just about sums it up. I only knew of Chuck Norris as Texas Ranger. What points did you not agree with?

    I don't have any preference for either of the two main parties. I thought Hillary was good and I liked her when she came to Ireland, but I really don't know enough about her at this point. I still can't understand why she didn't succeed in her campaign or why she was so badly let down especially by Kennedy. I can only guess it's because he so badly wants the party to get back in power and thought that the other fellow stood a better chance. Perhaps someone could enlighten me on this.

    The one thing I do know is that if I was an American with a vote, I certainly wouldn't be voting for a party with Obama as leader, especially after last weeks' pompous display. I look forward to seeing the other lot in action this week.


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    #16
    Jim_Are_Great
    Closed Accounts Posts: 652 ✭✭✭Jim_Are_Great


    The Raven. wrote: »
    I must say I found the article very well written. I think it just about sums it up. I only knew of Chuck Norris as Texas Ranger. What points did you not agree with?
    Well...
    Chuck wrote:
    outside of a splattering of a few American flags, both DNC stages at the Pepsi Center and Invesco Field were uncharacteristically unpatriotic.
    Hypocritical. Suggesting, as so many people seem to, that patriotism=flags is a bit strange in a piece attacking a candidate for favouring style over substance.
    Chuck wrote:
    Sadly, throughout Obama's message, he never once used the term "patriotic," ... And not once did Obama mention America's founders, our Constitution or even the word "liberty,"
    Yes, this is really the thing we should be concentrating on here
    Chuck wrote:
    but he did mention gays, lesbians and the Kennedys and Clintons three times each.
    OH NOES! The four most hideous things imaginable. I'm surprised he stopped short of Death, Famine, War and Pestilence.

    There's a dozen other parts I wanted to criticize, but I just felt bitchy.
    The Raven. wrote: »
    The one thing I do know is that if I was an American with a vote, I certainly wouldn't be voting for a party with Obama as leader, especially after last weeks' pompous display.
    Dunno. I suppose some Americans are voting based on policies rather than who they percieve as being pompous.


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    #17
    Pocono Joe
    Closed Accounts Posts: 795 ✭✭✭Pocono Joe


    Originally Posted by Chuck
    Sadly, throughout Obama's message, he never once used the term "patriotic," ... And not once did Obama mention America's founders, our Constitution or even the word "liberty,"
    Jim_Are_Great wrote: »
    Well...
    Yes, this is really the thing we should be concentrating on here

    Actually it is probably one of the largest parts to being President of the United States

    The President of the United States of America is the head of state and head of government of the United States and is the highest political official in United States by influence and recognition. The President is at the head of the executive branch of the federal government; his role is to enforce national law as given in the Constitution and written by Congress.


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    #18
    Jim_Are_Great
    Closed Accounts Posts: 652 ✭✭✭Jim_Are_Great


    Undoubtedly, Joe. But the point I take exception to is that the word "patriotic" must be used a certain number of times as a demonstration of patriotism. Doing a word count is not a meaningful test of a patriot.


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