Atheists forced to travel out of Donegal for final resting place

Xhristy

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PDN

Xhristy wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

If the community, say through the local Council, contributes financially to the upkeep of a graveyard then anyone should have the right to be buried there.

However, if a Church purchases land and covers all the costs of maintaining a graveyard for their members then it should totally up to them who they allow to be buried there.

Zillah

First of all you can get permits for people to be buried on private land, so to claim they fundamentally have to leave the county is wrong.

Also, its absolutely ridiculous of an Atheist to complain they cannot be buried on religious ground. They own it, they can decide who goes there. You don't want to follow their beliefs, then don't expect the perks without the commitment.

pH

PDN wrote: »

However, if a Church purchases land and covers all the costs of maintaining a graveyard for their members then it should totally up to them who they allow to be buried there.

Aren't these people Christians? Maybe they haven't read Jesus' teachings?

It's so funny that people go on about the goodness in Christianity all the time, yet when push comes to shove, Christians, and especially those in charge of the churches are petty nasty selfish creatures with no love or compassion at all for their fellow man. Another common trait is that there's no lack of other 'Christians' who will rush to their defence.

Stories like this that remind me of the true meaning of Christianity, a lot of self obsessed nonsense with the primary objective of acquiring power over the masses and holding onto it.

So to hell with gays, blacks, atheists, women, the disabled and the Jews, our religion is the most important thing to us do everyone else's rights can go jump in the lake - it's "private property" after all.

Scootay

Have we now covered the church bashing for all stages of life? Non believers are excluded from church baptisms, first communions, confirmation, weddings and now burials. That's because they are non believers. The church is not a hotel or a civic centre. Christians will happily forgive or ignore non believers but why should they be expected to accommodate them when they decide they'd like the comfort and pomp of a church ceremony?

Scootay

By the way ph what rights are being ignored by this? Do people have the right to be buried wherever they like now?

Zombrex

Scootay wrote: »

Have we now covered the church bashing for all stages of life? Non believers are excluded from church baptisms, first communions, confirmation, weddings and now burials. That's because they are non believers. The church is not a hotel or a civic centre. Christians will happily forgive or ignore non believers but why should they be expected to accommodate them when they decide they'd like the comfort and pomp of a church ceremony?

They shouldn't, but then Donegal probably shouldn't hand over all its graveyards to religious groups. It is the same with schools. I don't blame the churches for the situation we find ourselves in, I blame the people who are happy to hand everything over to the churches on the (false) assumption that we are all supposed to be religious anyway.

Scootay

Well then the ire should be aimed at Donegal Co. Co. instead of the usual church/Christian bashing.

Mena

Scootay wrote: »

Well then the ire should be aimed at Donegal Co. Co. instead of the usual church/Christian bashing.

In fairness, it's far more interesting to bash the church than to bash some anonymous Co. Council.

MicraBoy

Asked whether they were starting an atheist section for Mrs Greenslade the reply was: "No, we're putting her in with the Protestants."

Classic.

It is a pretty bad situation not to have a municipal graveyard, however I wonder why they didn't go for the cremation option. I personally don't feel being buried sits well with my atheism anyway.

MicraBoy

Have we now covered the church bashing for all stages of life? Non believers are excluded from church baptisms, first communions, confirmation, weddings and now burials. That's because they are non believers. The church is not a hotel or a civic centre. Christians will happily forgive or ignore non believers but why should they be expected to accommodate them when they decide they'd like the comfort and pomp of a church ceremony?

She didn't want the pomp and comfort of a church ceremony, she wanted a plot of dirt to put her bones in.

Of course it is the fault of the council/authorities that there is no municipal graveyard. And it is the right of the Churches to refuse to give a space to non-believers. However just because you have the right doesn't make it "right".

ChocolateSauce

Perhaps it should be made illegal to die in Donegal? Surely this would sove the problem of having to be buried there!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prohibition_of_death

Other places have done it, so why not us? We could put people who break this law in jail, thus discouraging people from comitting crimes. It's a win-win-win situation.

Bduffman

Zillah wrote: »

First of all you can get permits for people to be buried on private land, so to claim they fundamentally have to leave the county is wrong.

Yeah - just try selling your house with your mothers grave in the back garden.

Zillah wrote: »

Then don't expect the perks without the commitment.

That pretty well describes most christians I know.

Pompey Magnus

It doesn't surprise me too much to be honest, not too long ago the Catholic Church wouldn't allow the bodies of unbaptized babies or suicide victims desecrate consecrated ground so for them to not allow an atheist mother in there is not out of character.

The Council are more at fault for letting this situation arise in the first place though.

tricky D

Bduffman wrote: »

Yeah - just try selling your house with your mothers grave in the back garden.

There are some sort of rights of visitation that go with burial on private property which slightly devalue the property and act as a small disincentive to a buyer.

Galvasean

Charco wrote: »

The Council are more at fault for letting this situation arise in the first place though.

Indeed.

tricky D wrote: »

There are some sort of rights of visitation that go with burial on private property which slightly devalue the property and act as a small disincentive to a buyer.

As well as that. You also have to take out a survey to make sure youre not burying bodies near a water supply.

AtomicHorror

Zillah wrote: »

First of all you can get permits for people to be buried on private land, so to claim they fundamentally have to leave the county is wrong.

Would you bury your mother in the front garden, the back garden or would you buy a field to put her in? Seriously this is not practical for the vast majority of families unless they want to turn their flower beds into the family plot. Nothing like the constant reminder of mortality every time you look out the window. And as Bduffman said, good luck selling that house.

Zillah

I've heard of several families that have buried relations in tree-huggy bio pod things in a quiet place on their farms.

No, we don't all have farms, but its an option for some people. Either way, the complaint should be directed at the county council for not providing non-religious burial grounds, rather than fuming at the church for doing what they want with their private land.

Bduffman wrote:

That pretty well describes most christians I know.

Completely irrelevant, you don't get to decide the criteria by which the Church decides who's a member. Atheists don't get in, you have no grounds to complain.

robindch

Weird. I'd have thought the church would have been thrilled to bury an atheist.

Dades

A simple matter of cremation, followed by the spreading of the ashes to the wind from the church gate as the parishioners spill out after Sunday mass would do the trick.

AtomicHorror

Zillah wrote: »

No, we don't all have farms, but its an option for some people. Either way, the complaint should be directed at the county council for not providing non-religious burial grounds, rather than fuming at the church for doing what they want with their private land.

That I agree with completely.

axer

Dades wrote: »

A simple matter of cremation, followed by the spreading of the ashes to the wind from the church gate as the parishioners spill out after Sunday mass would do the trick.

Are you allowed to spread ashes anywhere (I don't mean all over the parishioners leaving church) but into the sea, onto a field or into the bin?

PDN

axer wrote: »

Are you allowed to spread ashes anywhere (I don't mean all over the parishioners leaving church) but into the sea, onto a field or into the bin?

They aren't actually ashes. The only stuff left over after a cremation is bone fragments. These are ground down to a fine powder that we call the 'ashes'. It's quite an interesting process and if you ask nicely your local undertaker will give you a guided tour.

I think you should be totally free to throw the ground up bones in the bin. I would sooner cut the crematorium middle-man out of the equation altogether and just have my body stuck straight in the bin when I die. My wife seems somewhat reluctant to observe my wishes in this regard. I think she's worried about getting it wrong as she always get mixed up as to what goes in the green wheeliebin and what goes in the grey one.

Fanny Cradock

Well, there's always the option of having your ashes blasted into space. Or not in the case of 'Scotty'

Zillah

PDN wrote: »

They aren't actually ashes. The only stuff left over after a cremation is bone fragments. These are ground down to a fine powder that we call the 'ashes'. It's quite an interesting process and if you ask nicely your local undertaker will give you a guided tour.

"Cremains" is the rather lame word used for such cremated remains.

Doesn't your body have to be specially preserved for the ultimate ressurection in the future returning of Jesus? Or is that just a messed up Catholic thing?

PDN

Zillah wrote: »

"Cremains" is the rather lame word used for such cremated remains.

Doesn't your body have to be specially preserved for the ultimate ressurection in the future returning of Jesus? Or is that just a messed up Catholic thing?

If you bury your body then it gets eaten by worms anyway. I guess an omnipotent God should be able to gather all the different bits however widely scattered they are and do something creative with them to create a new body.

The one thing I can't figure out is how it works when the same matter ends up being part of two or more bodies. For example, if Bill is buried in a field and his remains end up nourishing grass, then the grass gets eaten by cows, then the cows end up in a Big Mac that increases Tom's love handles - that would mean that some of the same matter that was part of Bill's body is part of Tom's body as well. So what happens at the Resurrection? I'm glad that is God's problem and not mine. Deus ex machina and all that.

Zillah

You're right, it doesn't make sense. Thats rarely a problem for your ilk though :pac:

philologos

PDN wrote: »

If the community, say through the local Council, contributes financially to the upkeep of a graveyard then anyone should have the right to be buried there.

However, if a Church purchases land and covers all the costs of maintaining a graveyard for their members then it should totally up to them who they allow to be buried there.

Indeed, the Government should be responsible for secular graveyards not the Church surely? However I don't see what is the theological issue with accepting to bury an atheist either.

Dades

PDN wrote: »

I guess an omnipotent God should be able to gather all the different bits however widely scattered they are and do something creative with them to create a new body.

Sure he only needed a rib to make a whole new gender!

Zillah

And nothing to conjure the universe.