Say it ain't so Pedro!! - new SEAT is a re-badged old-model A4...

pburns

First of all the nose-heavy old A4 was hardly a paragon of dynamic excellence. Even the old Mondeo/Mazda 6 had it licked for ride/handling etc. Now apparantly SEAT have done a quick nose-and-tail job and rehashed it as their C/D-class competitor:eek:!

http://www.autoblog.com/2008/08/27/new-seat-exeo-is-an-old-audi-a4/

If true it shows how serious VAG are about the SEAT brand (a Spanish Alfa Romeo they said:rolleyes:)

No doubt some of the Audiphiles on here will see some merit in this. For me though it seems a very cynical exercise dreamt up by the accountants.

-Chris-

I think this makes a mockery of the brand separation that Audi have been working so hard for - sure, share components and platforms, but not a whole car. You'll always have cynical people who say that Audi/VW are just expensive Skodas, but with VAG work hard to dispel that impression.
A move like this will make it very easy to say that Audi are expensive Seats (it'll never work the other way around).

As you said, it also reflects badly on Seat and their aspirations for Seat if they think Seat drivers will be happy paying new car prices for an 8 year old car design.

I really hope this doesn't happen, I hope someone pulls the plug.

Zonda999

I actually quite like the look of it.It looks even better here


I am, though a bit surprised that VAG have allowed this move by seat.I just hope it wont still have the old A4s engines, though(the RS4 engine would be nice, though:D).Especially that 100bhp 1.6 for a start!!

Maybe VAG gave them a ready made car this time after the old toledo which was absolutely horrible:pac:

superjosh9

I actually thought it was a pretty good idea.

1) The A4 by all accounts was a pretty good car

2) So good that, like many others, was replaced for the sake of being replaced. Indeed this is happening more and more often these days that companies are keeping not only existing engines, but the platform also - so that the thing being changed is the design mainly. e.g New Bravo is still based on the Stilo. New Laguna is based on the... old Laguna.

3) Machines/Tooling is probably ready to go, so why not make use of it?

4) Seat's choice of cars in recent years has turned into a joke as they all look like squashed MPVs, and indeed are all about the same size. Da Silva or someone screwed up. The cars don't even look well.

I would buy a cheaper A4 based Seat before I'd buy a toledo or whatever they've got these days for sale.

superjosh9

AudiChris wrote: »

I really hope this doesn't happen, I hope someone pulls the plug.

too far along...

I do feel sorry for Audi fans.

But I'm happy for Seat fans!

Zonda999

superjosh9 wrote: »

2) So good that, like many others, was replaced for the sake of being replaced. Indeed this is happening more and more often these days that companies are keeping not only existing engines, but the platform also - so that the thing being changed is the design mainly. e.g New Bravo is still based on the Stilo. New Laguna is based on the... old Laguna.

Which is the exact reason i wouldnt touchg either of those cars.They are very old underneath.At least the old A4 is modern.It has independant rear suspension for a start

Mr.David

This is going to end up with a load of bell ends buying the seat and changing the badging to an Audi. Wonder how it will affect Audi resale values?

Biro

Looks crap.

WHITE_P

It's a shame really, I had an 01 Toledo for a few years and really liked the car. I was appalled by the replacement / current one and think that someone at SEAT has really just become lazy, bad enough having three cars (Altea, Toledo and Leon) that all basically look the same, although the Leon is just about different enough to get away with it, not to mention that they all share the same platform, but to now try and win back some of the customers they must have lost when they brought out the current Toledo, by rehashing an old Audi, even if the last generation A4 was a fine car. I think SEAT would do better to learn from their recent mistake's and come up with something new and fresh in this sector.

colm_mcm

What a laugh. it'll take more than VW Group making the dealers build special seperate showrooms for Audis to dispel the belief that most of their product range is just overpriced underspecced nonsense.
The fact that this SEAT will probably be cheap as chips won't help Audi at all.

agent_smith

I think its pretty sweet looking to be honest.
As for damage to Audi etc.. I think it makes perfect sense. Doesn't the current A4 not use the same platform as the old A4 (which this new Seat will use)? Somebody clear this up for me...

-Chris-

Nope, new A4 is on a totally new platform (which'll be shared with Q5 etc.).

Not a lot shared between 2007 and 2008 model.

pburns

agent_smith wrote: »

I think its pretty sweet looking to be honest.
As for damage to Audi etc.. I think it makes perfect sense. Doesn't the current A4 not use the same platform as the old A4 (which this new Seat will use)? Somebody clear this up for me...

As AudiChris has pointed out, NO it doesn't use the same platform as the new A4.

And even if it did, sharing platforms is one thing. Taking an ENTIRE CAR, an old model and one that struggled to compete with cars like the OLD 3-series and even stuff a class down like the Mondeo Mk II, well:rolleyes:...

This is the kind of stuff manufacturers do to sell to third world markets - an old Renault Clio in saloon format is to be sold as a Dacia, old Passats were sold in China for years, there are numerous examples.

Both Skoda and SEAT have received the latest platforms and engines for some years now. Indeed, AFAIK the new Ibiza already has the underpinings for the next Polo.

No skin off my nose because this just reinforces my cynicism of VAG products. Marketing over content.

ninty9er

pburns wrote: »

As AudiChris has pointed out, NO it doesn't use the same platform as the new A4.

And even if it did, sharing platforms is one thing. Taking an ENTIRE CAR, an old model and one that struggled to compete with cars like the OLD 3-series and even stuff a class down like the Mondeo Mk II, well:rolleyes:...

This is the kind of stuff manufacturers do to sell to third world markets - an old Renault Clio in saloon format is to be sold as a Dacia, old Passats were sold in China for years, there are numerous examples.

Both Skoda and SEAT have received the latest platforms and engines for some years now. Indeed, AFAIK the new Ibiza already has the underpinings for the next Polo.

No skin off my nose because this just reinforces my cynicism of VAG products. Marketing over content.

Toyota also still sell the Landcruiser 70 in the Middle-East.

Zonda999

It aint only thirdworld countrys either.Vw still sell the Mk1 golf in south africa

http://www.vw.co.za/models/citi/

They also still sell the Mk4 Golf and Jetta in Canada

http://www.vw.ca/vwcms_publish/vwcms/master_public/virtualmaster/en_ca/models/city/city_golf.html

Also, the Mk2 jetta is still in production in China

Dave147

What do they mean when they say old A4? It looks nothing like a B5, it looks to be based on the B7 which certainly isn't 'old'.. I do like a few Seat's but why would I buy this when I can just buy an A4. The obvious answer being price, but I'm also not the kind of person who would buy this Rover Jaguar lookalikes! This car is going to do well with people trying to buy a nice looking car cheap.

-Chris-

Yep, it'll be based on the B7.

HashSlinging

The last A4 was a fine car and I presume SEAT will be tuning the chassis and adding their own stamp, I'm on my second SEAT have prev owned an 00' accord and a 97' corrola so I know what level of quality to expect.. Although the current range isnt to everyones taste, they are very stylish cars except for the toledo which has been a total flop. You just have to look to the UK to gauge how popular the SEAT brand is. The brand has a cult following over there.

I just hope they get access to a V6 Diesel.

Might sway me from the scooby diesel I was eyeing up, which by all accounts itself is looking very dated.:eek:

cabrwab

I personally don't see the problem with this. If it replaces the current toledo its a good thing.
I would buy this and not be ashamed of the badge!
This is the trouble with car companies owning each other to cut costs platforms are shared. But if the platform worked so well, why not let seat have it?

rabbitinlights

That blue picture is an amature photoshop of an Audi, the wheels still have the audi symbol on them!!

ninty9er

rabbitinlights wrote: »

That blue picture is an amature photoshop of an Audi, the wheels still have the audi symbol on them!!

Well spotted!!

_Kaiser_

So let me get this straight.

Seat are releasing a rebadged last model A4 - a car that by all accounts was/is pretty good - for substantially less than it would have cost originally, and this is a bad thing??

Personally I preferred the last version to the far-too-angular current model, so this would be a win-win for someone like me. I actually considered one but settled on my current 06 Passat as it was bigger, cheaper, and has a modern dash than the A4 had.

That said though, I'd imagine my next car will be an A6 or a 520D anyway.

superjosh9

I'd buy one.

In fact, I'd buy one before I'd buy an Audi. Though, I know it seems to be getting some stick, I actually like the look of the new A4. Seems a bit bigger than the previous one. Kind of leaves the A6 a little redundant I would have thought..?

Guy:Incognito

Dave147 wrote: »

but I'm also not the kind of person who would buy this Rover Jaguar lookalikes!.

How is a one car that looks like a rip off of an exspensive car the same as a Seat that IS an A4

pburns

HashSlinging wrote: »

Might sway me from the scooby diesel I was eyeing up, which by all accounts itself is looking very dated.:eek:

In fairness the Legacy is near the end of it's production run. New model due next year may look something like this:
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=126468

I think it could actually be a success in this country amongst stick-in-the-mud Passat buyers who are persuaded they are getting an Audi for SEAT money. After all it is (i) a saloon with (ii) German underpining and (iii) appeals to the type of inverted snobbery that makes Skoda such a success - getting a more expensive car for less money*.

*(Skodas have modern styling and platforms though)

HashSlinging

As was mentioned before this chassis was actually fairly decent, I fail to see what harm it could be recycling a very good product and applying it elsewhere, cost effective measures like this are applied everywhere in business. Kudos VAG. This is a great move for SEAT, I think this car will compete with the Alfa 159 for example if VAG do it right and they give SEAT access to a decent line of engines etc. Some car manufactures have been using bits from other manufactures for years, and to great success, I dont think Audi for SEAT money comes into it, as SEATs are fairly expensive new anyway. For e.g. My altea was 32k new, for which I could have picked up a similar second hand or even a less spec new Audi.

I’d just hate to have a rep mobile which most small executive cars are, you’ll never see a SEAT as a company car and that’s what appeals to me, there is a certain exclusivity to owning one, which you don’t get from the medium sized exec’s as they are on every road on every corner.

Thinking mans Audi would probably be more apt.

Dave147

Stekelly wrote: »

How is a one car that looks like a rip off of an exspensive car the same as a Seat that IS an A4

Not quite sure what you mean, I made a loose comparison.. Those rovers that came out about 5 or 6 years ago that were a rip off of the Jaguar.. Now I know Audi and Seat are part of the same company but it's still ripping off another car, and no.. it's not an A4.

HashSlinging

Not being an A4 is a good thing by all reports.

Kafer

Skoda did it with the Superb basing in on the chinese Passat B5. I think its a great move by SEAT. Load it up with the extras that Audi were too mean to stick in the A4 as standard like drivers armrest, electric rear windows, folding rear seat, decent alloys :rolleyes:

HashSlinging

Another photoshop, not bad though.

E92

HashSlinging wrote: »

Another photoshop, not bad though.

They've photoshopped the B8 A4 there though. And the wheels still have 4 rings instead of a Seat badge:pac:!

The Exeo may be based on the B7 A4, which is a facelifted B6 A4 really, but it will have the latest TSI and TDI engines from VAG.