Too High Gravestone in Kilcully Cemetery

Morlar

With all respect to the family for their loss - that is the most horrendous looking headstone I have ever seen. In my view its the opposite of dignified and quite disrespectful to other families who have loved ones laid to rest in that immediate vicinity.

MJOR

Holy mother of god! its awful but the family are grieving and there really is no law which of course there should be.

spring lane jack

My first time visiting Kilcully was a few days ago and I couldn't believe this grave. Its like something you would expect to see on a road advertising a casino or a caravan park. All that was missing was flashing lights. I found it so funny that I came back the next day to show it to a friend.

endacl

JP Liz wrote: »

The family (who had the gravestone erected) are members of the travelling community not that it matters

Well. There's me shocked and stunned....

biddyearley

Quantum Erasure

Came across this piece by Mary Leland when googling him

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/grave-matter-of-memorials-26476677.html

Grave matter of memorials
Mary Leland

September 14 2008 04:49 AM


Looking at the headstone of a man I know for a fact is still alive I think: "This is the way to do it!" The controversy about graveyard memorials is not exactly raging, although a few families here and there seem to be aggrieved as well as grieving. In Cork recently grief took the shape of a monumental headstone commemorating, with great expense (estimated at €50,000) the life of Tommy Kiely, horse dealer and one of the Travelling people. It's not taste so much as public safety which caused the controversy here, as a local councillor believed the headstone to be unstable, although he was also concerned that it was out of keeping with the tranquillity of what is, admittedly, a serene rural atmosphere in Kilcully.

I'm thinking of this as I stand in the dusty studio of sculptor Ken Thompson near Ballycotton, Co Cork, wondering if I have missed something important in the newspaper death announcements.

Thompson, who has won international recognition, is sometimes asked to carve headstones and every now and again his spare but beautifully lettered inscriptions blaze out from the usual crowds of whitened sepulchres and shiny black blocks engraved with gold. And every now and again his cliff-top studio holds a plain slab with a plain message, name and dates and very little more.

Except on this one there's no second date, which is some relief as I realise that this man isn't dead yet but is aware of his fate. The end may not be nigh, but it is advancing day by day. So this is the way to settle the issue of who puts what where; the cemetery is decided on, the inscription already cut, the known date inserted and the unknown one left to the future. And all in excellent taste. It's like a living will, written in stone.

Standing here, with the wash of the sea below, there is a feeling of serenity, as if death can be modelled into a shape pleasing to the eye and soul if not exactly welcomed.

It's when we have to cope with someone else's death that the sentiments are dictated by emotion. That's when we lose the run of ourselves and declare to the rest of mankind our own estimation of the deceased's extraordinary virtues. We've been doing it for a long time, sometimes with a little justification, sometimes with none at all.

In Cloyne Cathedral, for example, a tablet calls to mind the 'distinguished career in literary attainments' of Francis Blake Woodward, son of Bishop Richard Woodward and Susanna his wife. Francis had shown early signs which prompted 'the most flattering hope that he would prove an ornament to his country'. Unfortunately, 'The providence of God appointed for him a better lot, to be rescued from temptation in the prime of innocence and to afford a striking instance of the vanity of human hopes.' Vanity indeed, Francis was 18 years old when he died in 1784.

But that's what anguish, even in such high-minded acceptance of God's will, and grief can do. Imagine a tablet lasting for more than 200 years announcing that even at 18 one had achieved a distinguished career in anything, not to mind literary attainments.

It should not be presumed that the dead are beyond embarrassment, however much we might have loved them. But although sometimes the language of a graveyard may provoke criticism or even disbelief, there is always some excuse for the excesses resulting from the loss of a child.

Or so I tell myself as I try to take in the awfulness of a large monument in one graveyard. There should be a law against it, for here the mourning pediment is upheld by two painted models of Bob the Builder. And then I'm ashamed of myself, for these were among the angels of this short life. Never having had this grief I have no right to mock. And no one ever prepares a headstone in advance for the death of their child.

Peregrinus

It has been standing for 13 years, and hasn't fallen over yet. Concerns about its soundness were raised when it was first erected. For all we know, the Council have inspected it and found to be structurally sound. The OP includes a newspaper report of a Councillor talking about getting engineers sent out to check it; perhaps that was done?

The creators of this piece evidently had no taste, but it doesn't follow that they lacked skill and competence as monumental masons. A monument can be hideous, and yet perfectly sound.

Widdensushi

It's still 'but a puppy' in headstone years, it's not unusual to them a few hundred years old.

deandean

It'd be great if someone could keep an eye on the condition of the OP gravestone, and update this thread every decade.
Thirteen years is too long.
��

Peregrinus

Check back in in 2031, so.

NIMAN

It's obvious money can't buy class.

Peregrinus

That's hardly news.

whisky_galore

Liana Freezing Stitch wrote: »

Here's and image of said gravestone.
It is horrible, tasteless vulgar, etc. but I have to feel a bit sorry for the family concerned. They clearly did think they were doing a good thing.

Does it light up at night as well?

Yeah I feel sorry for the family, for being devoid of taste.

JP Liz V1

Wasn't headstones up there vandalised?

spring lane jack

whisky_galore wrote: »

Does it light up at night as well?

Yeah I feel sorry for the family, for being devoid of taste.

I think if the red roses were replaced by red lights then it would be the icing on the cake. My friend mentioned that it was highly probable that the grave could be seen from space. :pac:

Spotlights should have been installed to complete the greatness.

corks finest

Peregrinus wrote: »

It has been standing for 13 years, and hasn't fallen over yet. Concerns about its soundness were raised when it was first erected. For all we know, the Council have inspected it and found to be structurally sound. The OP includes a newspaper report of a Councillor talking about getting engineers sent out to check it; perhaps that was done?

The creators of this piece evidently had no taste, but it doesn't follow that they lacked skill and competence as monumental masons. A monument can be hideous, and yet perfectly sound.

It’s obscene

spring lane jack

spring lane jack wrote: »

My first time visiting Kilcully was a few days ago and I couldn't believe this grave. Its like something you would expect to see on a road advertising a casino or a caravan park. All that was missing was flashing lights. I found it so funny that I came back the next day to show it to a friend.

You should see the graveyard in Rathkeale so...

corks finest

[Deleted User] wrote: »

You should see the graveyard in Rathkeale so...

It’s not the travellers fault it’s our dopey city and county councils

corks finest

corks finest wrote: »

It’s not the travellers fault it’s our dopey city and county councils

Yep. Don't gravestones require planning permission?

Peregrinus

Jeremy Beagle wrote: »

Yep. Don't gravestones require planning permission?

Nope. Works "incidental to the use or maintenance of any burial ground" are an exempted development (except for the construction of a wall or gate on a public road, and the construction or alteration of any building within the burial ground).

There'd be uproar if people had to apply for planning permission to put up a grave marker.

banie01

Peregrinus wrote: »

There'd be uproar if people had to apply for planning permission to put up a grave marker.

So that's me 100% sorted for my Pharaoh Bender style memorial!

Ash.J.Williams

BanzaiBk wrote: »

It was either on the front of the Echo today or yesterday, I don't normally take photos in graveyards.

i do

at midnight

whisky_galore

[Deleted User] wrote: »

You should see the graveyard in Rathkeale so...

If Disney did graveyards?

Edit: had a look, a LOT of clutter. Like the interior of a house of a granny who collected holy statues.

Peregrinus

Peregrinus wrote: »

Nope. Works "incidental to the use or maintenance of any burial ground" are an exempted development (except for the construction of a wall or gate on a public road, and the construction or alteration of any building within the burial ground).

There'd be uproar if people had to apply for planning permission to put up a grave marker.

There's usually bylaws to comply with.
Cork County specify max height and has to be pre approved. City Council don't seem to

Peregrinus

MikeOxsgreen wrote: »

There's usually bylaws to comply with.
Cork County specify max height and has to be pre approved. City Council don't seem to

Bye-laws or cemetery operator's regulations, sure. But that's different from planning permission.

With bye-laws all you have to do is make sure that the stone you put up is compliant, and stonemasons have an obvious interest in being familiar with the bye-laws and provide stones which are compliant, so it's no big drama. If there was a requirement for planning permission, then everybody wanting to put up a headstone, or alter an existing headstone, would have to prepare and submit an application, pay a fee to have it considered, and get positive approval before proceeding. That would be a big imposition on everybody, even those whose applications were immediately approved.

Presumably in this case there are either no bye-laws/regulations about what monuments can be erected in Kilcully Cemetery, or this momument is compliant with whatever bye-laws/regulations are in place.

Peregrinus

Peregrinus wrote: »

Bye-laws or cemetery operator's regulations, sure. But that's different from planning permission.

With bye-laws all you have to do is make sure that the stone you put up is compliant, and stonemasons have an obvious interest in being familiar with the bye-laws and provide stones which are compliant, so it's no big drama. If there was a requirement for planning permission, then everybody wanting to put up a headstone, or alter an existing headstone, would have to prepare and submit an application, pay a fee to have it considered, and get positive approval before proceeding. That would be a big imposition on everybody, even those whose applications were immediately approved.

Presumably in this case there are either no bye-laws/regulations about what monuments can be erected in Kilcully Cemetery, or this momument is compliant with whatever bye-laws/regulations are in place.

Bye laws regulate exempted development in cemetries!
Planning regulates development outside!

Cork City look to have approved installers.
City Council you have to have a drawing of what's proposed approved.

(Wasnt Kilkully in the old County?)

Atlantic Dawn

Why don't they just imprison or fine the person fitting the unauthorised headstone?

corks finest

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Why don't they just imprison or fine the person fitting the unauthorised headstone?

Never happen in this gaff

Peregrinus

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Why don't they just imprison or fine the person fitting the unauthorised headstone?

Who says it was unauthorised?

corks finest wrote: »

Never happen in this gaff

Indeed not. Ireland is still a country in which you generally have to do something illegal before you can be imprisoned.

whisky_galore

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Why don't they just imprison or fine the person fitting the unauthorised headstone?

If they imprisoned people for structures in bad taste, half the house builders in the country would be in jail.