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Looks like McCain has picked his VP...
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Well I’m sure those who consider her experience lacking also won’t vote for Obama… someone who has been in the Senate for 4 years, but who has spent and extraordinary amount of that campaigning… Right!
Sorry to upset ya’ll, but the rank and file don’t seem to be listening to the angry and upset traditional media pundits. They like what she has done. They like her no nonsense attitude towards the old school of govt. They like her fire. They like her spirit. THEY JUST PLAIN LIKE HER. Se embodies what a lot of Americans consider a true American to be.0 -
As I have stated in the AH thread this is one great piece of electoral genius by the GOP.
She has the potential to pull in voters all over as has McCain, whom from just looking at and listening to is a very likeable guy.
The GOP will keep America on track and not derail it into come French high tax socialist nightmare.
Obama-Biden are going nowhere and everybody are focusing on the issues one must not forget Obama is black and this will drive alot alot of White Americans to vote for McCain despite he probably being the complete opposite of their beliefs. Racial politics will play a big part in this. His full name is Barack Hussein Obama II, Americans will never but a person with an Arabic name in control of their country after the terror that was wreaked on their cities during 9/11. Obama will suffer from guilt through association and Fox News will play the greatest role in this election as never before.
Biden is a terrible VP candiadate and he looks like Gerald Ford!, America is the greatest country in the world and this has been majorly down to the GOP and FDR (who deserves credit too).
Like it or Lump it the GOP are the better bet and come January McCain and Palin will be in Washington and the American 21st century will continue, issues which will dominate are energy politcs, Iran will be invaded and continued military spending will reach new levels, America will ultimatly square off with Russia in a minor proxy war which will probably be fought in Eastern Europe, Europe is already moving right as people learn that socialism and its offshoots don't work.
John McCain and Palin FTW
You're contradicting yourself there. The Republicans have already effectively turned the US into a high tax socialist nightmare by running up obscene deficits pursuing their military agenda. That this has gone through government borrowing instead of higher headline rates of income tax makes little difference to the fact that it will have to be repaid somehow by the average American.
John McCain may have managed to stage manage himself effectively as 'likeable' so far but he is short-tempered, cantankerous and out of touch with the man on the street. Sooner or later he will slip up massively and have his facade blown. A few years ago he called his wife a "f***ing c**t" in front of several reporters.0 -
Two things I've noticed:
Palin was a mayor for 6 years and has been a governor for 2 years - that's 8 years more executive experience than Obama and Biden have combined.
The allegedly sexist, misogynistic conservative rank-and-file are thrilled with her, and the allegedly tolerant, open-minded, feminist liberal rank-and-file are almost unanimous in their hatred of her.0 -
quite an interesting article here about the vp..
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-j-elisberg/the-worst-vice-presidenti_b_122491.html
a poor choice in my eyes as the journalist pointed outher nomination takes away the Republicans' ONLY weapon in the campaign - calling Barack Obama inexperienced. They haven't even been trying to run on the issues, or on the eight-year record of George Bush, which John McCain has supported almost 95% of the time. They've only been running on the faux-issue of Barack Obama's experience of 14 years in federal and state government. Yes, Sarah Palin is merely running for VP, not president, but with a 72 year-old candidate with a history of serious medical issues, this is who they're saying is able to step in as president in a heart-beat. She has so little experience that she makes Sen. Obama look like FDR, Winston Churchill and Julius Caesar combined. So, the Republicans pulled the rug out from under themselves.0 -
snow scorpion wrote: »Two things I've noticed:
Palin was a mayor for 6 years and has been a governor for 2 years - that's 8 years more executive experience than Obama and Biden have combined.
The allegedly sexist, misogynistic conservative rank-and-file are thrilled with her, and the allegedly tolerant, open-minded, feminist liberal rank-and-file are almost unanimous in their hatred of her.
From wiki: Wasilla, Alaska Population (2000) - Total 5,4690 -
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Poor pet, you must be square-eyed from watching Fox News? Do you find their analysis to be profound?
Aw, a pity, you missed the speech? Didn't they show it on Fox News?
No offence bud, but your posts tell me you've a lot of catching up to do on this election. Perhaps you should flick away from Fox News once in a while.
Knock yourself out if you feel glib comments about me provide any form of insight.
It would help if you understood what I was saying in the first place. Do read it again.
No offence taken seeing as you appear to display a spectacular inability to read and understand my posts.0 -
A female version of Teddy Roosevelt… I like it. And I think you’ll see this get some traction here.
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Shes got far more executive experience than Obama, who apart from writing 2 books of memoirs, giving a good speech at the 2004 DNC, getting elected to the US senate in 2004 and sealing up the DNC presidential nomination this month hasnt got any executive experience or track record to speak of.
That is subjective. She has 20 months experience as governer and on major executive issues, such as taxation, Alaska doesn't run in quite the same way as other states. Alaska also has a population of about 700,000 and receives financial budgetting from big oil.
You're beginning to sound like Fox news who are trying to turn every frown upside down by adding shady interpretations. They recently claimed she had alot of foreign policy experience because Alaska was right beside Russia......
I'm not a big Obama fan, I do like Biden though. I'm undecided on McCain, he's flipflopped a little too much for me.
Palin is insulting though. She's a PR stunt brought in to tap into what the Republican things are an army of woman who will vote with their uterus. This just about sums up the Republican's views of women (they're traditionally against equal pay for equal status and dismiss women's issues) as dumb little housewives.
Clinton supporters were not motivated because she was a woman, they were motivated by her ideals and the fact that she pushed issues important to them.
All Democrats need to focus on are the following points:
1. She is strongly anti-abortion and believes that Roe Vs. Wade should be overturned.
2. She believes that global warming is a natural phenomenon.
3. She has never supported equal rights.
4. She believes ID should be pushed in schools
5. She has ZERO washington experience.
6. She is effectively the anti-Clinton0 -
One advantage she does offer McCain, is a party that by and large approves of the ticket. She is the right type of candidate for the GOP right and ticks all their boxes. He will not need to shift right and can take on Obama in the centre. Yes it's all calculated and in same the way as Biden is there to shore up Obama's credibility on foreign affairs and experience. If it's an insult to those who count , ie the American voters then they'll see through it and vote accordingly. PR or not the timing is impeccable. In such a tight race it is also the kind of thing that can nudge polls in the right direction.
I am really not sure that list is going to hold much sway with the likes of blue-collar voters in swing states who will count and they may even share some of those values. Of more consequence is how convinced they are by what is being offered and how much they trust those offering it.0 -
That is subjective. She has 20 months experience as governer and on major executive issues, such as taxation, Alaska doesn't run in quite the same way as other states. Alaska also has a population of about 700,000 and receives financial budgetting from big oil.
Which is still 20 months more executive experience than Obama has - and Obama is the lead candidate on his ticket. Its hard to claim a state governor isn't qualified to be the US VP, when a first term senator with no major achievements or track record other than becoming a presidential candidate is apparently qualified to become the actual US President.Palin is insulting though. She's a PR stunt brought in to tap into what the Republican things are an army of woman who will vote with their uterus. This just about sums up the Republican's views of women (they're traditionally against equal pay for equal status and dismiss women's issues) as dumb little housewives.
I think shes an exceptional choice. Shes a risky choice, but shes also an exceptional choice. Shes a fairly standard republican in her declared positions so she reassures the Republican base, but shes not a Huckabee nor is she Romney with the problematic [ for some quarters of the Republican party] Mormon religion. She is also a surprise pick, which helps with taking the media back from Obama. There's no danger of her overshadowing McCain [ Biden has the experience and gravitas that he might do that to Obama]
She also invites the sort of attacks the Republicans can use against Obama. Whilst the Dems try to paint the Republicans as the party of angry white racist, misogynistic bastards - it will be the Dems attacking Palin on the dubious grounds that shes a token woman candidate. These attacks have already started [ see the Anna Nicole Smith and Vogue mock ups which concentrate purely on the potential VPs gender, not her politics]. Quite simply, if she was a guy, she wouldn't be facing those sort of attacks. But because shes a woman, the Dems naturally ignore her views and attack her on her gender. Where issues are addressed, its specifically abortion where shes assumed to be letting the side down. Because as we know, if your a woman you're supposed to think certain things - not that you should stay at home and mind the kids, were progressive. No its that abortion is proper and right.
TBH, the Reps have given more power and influence to minority candidates in their administrations and party than the Dems have. The choice of a female candidate might be shocking and daring by Democrat standards, but its just business as usual for the Republicans - see Republicans like Condaleeza Rice [ Secretary of State, and quite simply running the show in terms of foreign policy since the dethronement of Cheney and the neo-cons]. TBH, if Rice wasn't so closely associated with Bush [ which is political death] she would have been a shoo-in for VP.
Oh yeah, just to reassure the prejudice I found a troll article on Republicans and how to win over women voters.
Some quotes that made me laughWomen are able to vote in elections, just like property-owning, white males.Republicans need someone right now who can outmatch the handsome men offered by the Democratic Party, such as Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton.Girls aren't attracted to practical fiscal policy and conservative politics. They want emotions; they want to hear about things that have absolutely no relevance to everyday life.
Maybe at Rudy Guiliani's next campaign stop, he can share with voters how to make old T-shirts into a quilt. Perhaps John McCain can go on The View to talk about how Britney needs to get her life together. It doesn't even need to be sincere. Women tend to believe anything men tell them -- it's in their genes.Finally, Republicans have to tackle some issues important to woman voters. They did a bang-up job addressing issues important to guys with their stances on guns, war and gay people.Maybe GOP lawmakers could even legislate time off each month for when a woman gets her period. Nothing shows you care about women more than saying, "Hey, your breasts are swollen and you're acting bitchy. Why don't you go home so everyone else here can function like normal human beings?"0 -
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It is and I do.is_that_so wrote: »If it's an insult to those who count , ie the American voters then they'll see through it and vote accordingly.I am really not sure that list is going to hold much sway with the likes of blue-collar voters in swing states who will count and they may even share some of those values. Of more consequence is how convinced they are by what is being offered and how much they trust those offering it.
I'm in a swing state and I work talking to alot of blue collar workers. The state voted Obama but it voted Bush in the last two elections.
The feeling I'm getting so far is cynicism. There are a few who are singing Palin's praises but most of those are people who were never going to vote for Obama, even if Jesus had come down to be VP. The Clinton supporters are mostly responding by asking if McCain see's us as bimbos and the list above is mostly from discussions I've had (I work twice a week in a free medical clinic and tend to have the same current affairs conversation 100 times a day).
I don't think this has changed the view of the people who'd made up thier minds to oppose Obama. They are fanatics. I think it could damage McCain's own support base and will offend undecided voters.0 -
I think she is equally inexprienced to Obama. As I said, Alaska, as a state, is run rather differently to other states (no sales tax, no individual state income tax) and is largely in the pocket of big oil. That limits here experience on key issues in government. She has no experience on taxation issues, she does have experience with investors (if you consider big oil an investor in Alaska) but she plays a weak hand. For instance she legally challenged the status of Polar Bears on the endangered species list, largely because they interfere with oil drilling.Which is still 20 months more executive experience than Obama has - and Obama is the lead candidate on his ticket. Its hard to claim a state governor isnt qualified to be the US VP, when a first term senator with no major achievements or track record other than becoming a presidential candidtate is apparently qualfied to become the actual US President.
For anyone to claim she has the upper hand in any sort of governance experience either shows ignorance of american state government or a specific ignorance of Alaska (I've lived there).
I think the issue is, if she were a guy, she would never be considered for VP.Quite simply, if she was a guy, she wouldnt be facing those sort of attacks. But because shes a woman, the Dems naturally ignore her views and attack her on her gender.TBH, the Reps have given more power and influence to minority candidates in their administrations and party than the Dems have. The choice of a female candidate might be shocking and daring by Democrat standards, but its just business as usual for the Republicans - see Republicans like Condaleeza Rice [ Secretary of State, and quite simply running the show in terms of foreign policy since the dethronement of Cheney and the neo-cons]. TBH, if Rice wasnt so closely associated with Bush [ which is political death] she would have been a shoo-in for VP.
That is nonsense. For starters Geraldine Ferraro was the first woman nominated for a presidential ticket. She was a democrat. Secondly, Republicans have had the whitehouse for the last 8 years, so lets compare like with like. Clinton made great strides on women's issues (jokes aside) which were largely killed by Bush.
Getting prominent figures in government positions means nothing if it isn't filtering down to the public. Republicans have stopped just short of opposing equal pay acts.
I'm not a democrat, as I said, I'm an undecided, but lets keep things real.0 -
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I think the issue is, if she were a guy, she would never be considered for VP.
You threw down the gauntlet! Okay, I guess it up to me to say the unthinkable and unspeakable. If Obama were not African American, would he be the Democratic choice for President, given his incredible lack of experience (using your argument)?0 -
well i mean they went with kerry, which leads me to assume the pickins arent that great in the democratic party.0
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Geraldine Ferraro pretty much made that argument, and was acosted for it, lol.Pocono Joe wrote: »You threw down the gauntlet! Okay, I guess it up to me to say the unthinkable and unspeakable. If Obama were not African American, would he be the Democratic choice for President, given his incredible lack of experience (using your argument)?
the Dems better watch themselves regarding the gender issue.
then again, I seem to recall some media pundits suggesting that Racism trumps sexism :eek:0 -
There are a lot of media pundits making the casual assumption that Hillary Clinton's women supporters will vote for any ticket with a woman candidate. I wonder how Hillary herself feels about someone else potentially becoming America's first woman president. I rather go along with this view:Hmmm: Will John McCain's selection of Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin as veepmate energize Hillary Clinton's supporters to cross party lines . . . or have the opposite effect?
To wit: Will it invigorate Clinton, who wanted to make history, to make sure another women doesn't become the nation's first female vice president?
Translation: "I've worked for Hillary Clinton, and I will tell you this," a male African-American Obama delegate from New York said while watching McCain's veep announcement on TV in Denver. "The selection of Gov. Palin will energize Hillary to the extreme to elect Obama. This woman is very serious. She's driven. Do you think she wants another woman eclipsing her place in history? I doubt it."0 -
Pocono Joe wrote: »You threw down the gauntlet! Okay, I guess it up to me to say the unthinkable and unspeakable. If Obama were not African American, would he be the Democratic choice for President, given his incredible lack of experience (using your argument)?
I don't know. The first time I heard about Obama was after the DNC four years ago. I didn't see him or know anything about him. A few of my friends who did, liked what he had to say and said he'd make a great president. I heard his comments and liked his attitude (if not all his policies).
I think overall, America wants change and Obama is singing that all day. I personally believe that his popularity is based on his attitude and policy rather than his race.
I mean look at it this way, traditionally hispanics and asians would lean against black candidates, so he's not where he is now on the force of african american support alone.0 -
Look at the midwestern and western states where he won in the primary. Many of those with white majorities near 90%. None more important than the first one Iowa. It's a battleground state that Gore won and Kerry narrowly lost.I mean look at it this way, traditionally hispanics and asians would lean against black candidates, so he's not where he is now on the force of african american support alone.0 -
Look at the midwestern and western states where he won in the primary. Many of those with white majorities near 90%. None more important than the first one Iowa. It's a battleground state that Gore won and Kerry narrowly lost.
Granted Obama’s campaign was run better than Hillarys. The other two candidates you mentioned had loads of experience compared to Obama. I never implied that the vote for Obama was based on population demographics. But since you brought it up, the fact that there was landslide margins among African American voters (78%-80%) for Barack Obama over Hillary Clinton brings up another question. Is it okay for African American to vote for Obama based upon race, but not okay for women to vote for Palin because of gender?0 -
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Pocono Joe wrote: »Granted Obama’s campaign was run better than Hillarys. The other two candidates you mentioned had loads of experience compared to Obama. I never implied that the vote for Obama was based on population demographics. But since you brought it up, the fact that there was landslide margins among African American voters (78%-80%) for Barack Obama over Hillary Clinton brings up another question. Is it okay for African American to vote for Obama based upon race, but not okay for women to vote for Palin because of gender?
Id like to see you prove that is the case.
I think the point people are (or at least I'm) making is that in Obama's case, his approach is something that is going to reach out to both poor and educated voters (which is why he won). That is where his issues lay. Clinton's are known as great friends to hispanics and she really got the working middle class workers nailed in terms of appeal. Add to that the fact that Clinton and her policies (especially healthcare) has undeniable appeal to many women, I would go so far as to say that Clinton should have won based on her policies, Obama didn't so much win as Clinton mismanaged her campaign to failure.
That said, there are fewer anti-Obama Clinton supporters than the media would make out. I live in Denver. I was outside the DNC (and in it briefly), there were nowhere near the numbers of protesters (and I mean pro-Clinton protesters) as the media reported. I would say 200 attended one protest and Fox news reported THOUSANDS. I was there and I couldn't believe the report.
Most of Clinton's democrats will weigh in behind Obama because his policies.
The ONLY thing that Clinton has in common with Palin is gender. Infact, her policies and stances are in most cases the exact opposite of Clinton's.
So what I'm saying is, the ones who might vote because Palin is a woman, are the ones who were going to vote McCain anyone. Anyone who was behind Clinton based on policy, will vote for Obama.0 -
they probably assumed thousands through their bs reasoning. and by that i mean oh if theres 200 protesters here at this convention there must be thousands of upset voters out there.0
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This is interesting speculation that has come up regarding McCains VP.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/8/30/121350/137
Ignoring the site for a minute (as I tracked references to original sources) if the speculation is true then she would of committed a criminal offense forging a birth certificate.
If the speculation isn't true, then her actions prior to giving birth are not only downright bizarre, but put the life of the unborn child in danger. Also breaking laws about flying while pregnant*.
And for those who have a distaste of KOS, there are claims that her child with downs Syndrome is not hers but her daughters. Based on pictures, recorded actions around the time of the birth and the culling of photos which show her daughter appear to be pregnant.
(NOT SPECULATION BELOW. FACT)
Also the fact that when her water broke in Texas (eight months pregnant), rather then see a doctor she gave her keynote speech. Then she took a flight back to Alaska (without informing the airline she was pregnant, or having a doctors note allowing her to fly). Then drove 50 miles to a health facility to have the child delivered instead of going straight to a hospital in Texas.
Well over 9 hours from when her water broke to when she actually got into a hospital. Going to love to see how they spin this as being normal/responsible thing to do.
... The only reason it hasn't been reported before is she has been pretty much an unknown to the Media until the VP position.
[edit] * Checked on this. The airlines she flew with did not require a doctors note to fly.0 -
I don't know. The first time I heard about Obama was after the DNC four years ago. I didn't see him or know anything about him. A few of my friends who did, liked what he had to say and said he'd make a great president. I heard his comments and liked his attitude (if not all his policies).
I think that “I don’t know” is a fair and honest answer. But how then can you say “I think the issue is, if she were a guy, she would never be considered for VP?”
I have talked to a number of conservs & repubs about the pick. At first look, they have been energized by Palin, and being female is inconsequential (but woman seem to think it’s a plus). I bet this is being repeated across the country.
I also find it amusing that we are discussing Palin versus Obama… that’s Prez against VP… big big big big difference.
Here is a couple of the links I believe you wanted to see:
http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=M2IyMzk4OWIwY2JjZjQ5NjU1YzQ5ODNkOTA5MjQwYTc=
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/horseraceblog/2008/05/how_obama_beat_the_line.html0 -
This is interesting speculation that has come up regarding McCains VP.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/8/30/121350/137
Ignoring the site for a minute (as I tracked references to original sources) if the speculation is true then she would of committed a criminal offense forging a birth certificate.
If the speculation isn't true, then her actions prior to giving birth are not only downright bizarre, but put the life of the unborn child in danger. Also breaking laws about flying while pregnant*.
And for those who have a distaste of KOS, there are claims that her child with downs Syndrome is not hers but her daughters. Based on pictures, recorded actions around the time of the birth and the culling of photos which show her daughter appear to be pregnant.
(NOT SPECULATION BELOW. FACT)
Also the fact that when her water broke in Texas (eight months pregnant), rather then see a doctor she gave her keynote speech. Then she took a flight back to Alaska (without informing the airline she was pregnant, or having a doctors note allowing her to fly). Then drove 50 miles to a health facility to have the child delivered instead of going straight to a hospital in Texas.
Well over 9 hours from when her water broke to when she actually got into a hospital. Going to love to see how they spin this as being normal/responsible thing to do.
... The only reason it hasn't been reported before is she has been pretty much an unknown to the Media until the VP position.
[edit] * Checked on this. The airlines she flew with did not require a doctors note to fly.
HOW LOW CAN WE GO?
http://newsbusters.org/blogs/warner-todd-huston/2008/08/30/stay-classy-daily-kos-accusations-palin-faked-her-pregnancy-down0 -
This is interesting speculation that has come up regarding McCains VP.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/8/30/121350/137
Ignoring the site for a minute (as I tracked references to original sources) if the speculation is true then she would of committed a criminal offense forging a birth certificate.
If the speculation isn't true, then her actions prior to giving birth are not only downright bizarre, but put the life of the unborn child in danger. Also breaking laws about flying while pregnant*.
And for those who have a distaste of KOS, there are claims that her child with downs Syndrome is not hers but her daughters. Based on pictures, recorded actions around the time of the birth and the culling of photos which show her daughter appear to be pregnant.
(NOT SPECULATION BELOW. FACT)
Also the fact that when her water broke in Texas (eight months pregnant), rather then see a doctor she gave her keynote speech. Then she took a flight back to Alaska (without informing the airline she was pregnant, or having a doctors note allowing her to fly). Then drove 50 miles to a health facility to have the child delivered instead of going straight to a hospital in Texas.
Well over 9 hours from when her water broke to when she actually got into a hospital. Going to love to see how they spin this as being normal/responsible thing to do.
... The only reason it hasn't been reported before is she has been pretty much an unknown to the Media until the VP position.
[edit] * Checked on this. The airlines she flew with did not require a doctors note to fly.
This one looks like the Michelle Obama whitey story. Both are equally execrable in my view and serve only to reinforce prejudices already held. You would hope that neither type of story will be the final arbiter on who gets into the White House.
I don't know whether it's the "expertise" on what a pregnant woman looks like or the sheer vitriol that goes with it that is the most laughable. Incidentally my cousin has the same belly as that kid and that's beer and late night takeaways. Hobbes I think this one should nudge on over to CT.0 -
I honestly don't know how you equate the two.
Current facts that I have found.
- Daughter was taken out of school 5-8 months prior to Palin announcing she was pregnant.
- Her daughter was removed from school diagnosed with Mono. You loose weight when you have mono, you don't gain weight. Also it is very rare for mono to last more then three months.
- The previous statement of her leaking fluid to getting to a hospital and everything that happened in between is all true.I don't know whether it's the "expertise" on what a pregnant woman looks like
My son was 4 pounds when born. He was quite noticeable. Palin does not appear to be pregnant with a 6 pound baby unless her uterus is the Tardis.
I also agree the daughter part is pure speculation at best. However there is a lot of that KOS story that is factual.0 -
Pocono Joe wrote: »
Story skips over what I have pointed out so far. Actually it doesn't really shoot anything down except the daughter speculation bit which I also agree is speculation at best.
Oh and all pictures of Palins daughter are being deleted from websites Palin owns. Also not just KOS reporting it now.0 -
I honestly don't know how you equate the two.
Current facts that I have found.
- Daughter was taken out of school 5-8 months prior to Palin announcing she was pregnant.
- Her daughter was removed from school diagnosed with Mono. You loose weight when you have mono, you don't gain weight. Also it is very rare for mono to last more then three months.
- The previous statement of her leaking fluid to getting to a hospital and everything that happened in between is all true.
My son was 4 pounds when born. He was quite noticeable. Palin does not appear to be pregnant with a 6 pound baby unless her uterus is the Tardis.
I also agree the daughter part is pure speculation at best. However there is a lot of that KOS story that is factual.
If the daughter was not pregnant then it was the mother.
Based on your comments then the only "truth" is her getting on a plane after her waters had broken.Then the only real argument he has against her is addressed to her actions as an expectant mother. I would imagine she's more likely to get sympathy than opprobrium.
Herein lies my distaste with any stories of this nature. A small fact producing an unproven outcome but yet it still masquerades as "truth" or "fact".
And here I repeat myself. This is pure point-scoring by an individual who does not like the GOP or Palin. It is the same type of point-scoring the GOP attempted on Michelle Obama. IMO both reflect poorly on the society that embraces them as the norm.0 -
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