Looks like McCain has picked his VP...

KJ_2008 · 03-09-2008 3:29am

Sorry if posted already - Palin visited Ireland! Um, sort of:

Palin’s Ireland trip was just a refueling stopover.»

Last week, Politico’s Ben Smith asked the McCain campaign if Gov. Sarah Palin (R-AK) — who was first issued a U.S. passport in 2007 — had ever traveled abroad. A spokeswoman for Palin said the Alaska governor had been to Germany and Kuwait in 2007 and had visited one other country, Ireland. It turns out that the Ireland trip was just a refueling stopover on the way to Europe and the Middle East. But she has been to Canada, another campaign spokesman noted. (HT: AmericaBlog)

KJ_2008 · 03-09-2008 3:34am

Manic Moran wrote: »

Umm. No. The three people present were Wooten, McCann (Palin's sister) and a chap named Chris Watchus. Mr Wooten, who did not have a moose-hunting license (they're pretty hard to get) shot the Moose. McCann, who had the license, and the use of which was the intent of going Moose-hunting in the first place, claims she was not given the opportunity to shoot the moose.

NTM

Really?

Sarah Palin's sister Molly married a guy named Mike Wooten who is an Alaska State Trooper. Mike and Molly had a rocky marriage. When the marriage broke up, there was a bitter custody fight that is still ongoing. During the custody investigation, all sorts of things were brought up about Wooten including the fact that he had illegally shot a moose (yes folks this is Alaska), driven drunk, and used a taser (on the test setting, he reminds us) on his 11-year old stepson, who supposedly had asked to see what it felt like. While Wooten has turned out to be a less than stellar figure, the fact that Palin's father accompanied him on the infamous moose hunt, and that many of the dozens of charges brought up by the Palin family happened long before they were ever reported smacked of desperate custody fight. Wooten's story is that he was basically stalked by the family.

KJ_2008 · 03-09-2008 3:37am

Sand wrote: »

Acctually they can - The McCain/Palin ticket has the experience in the top job calling the shots rather than in a relatively powerless....advisory/ceremonial position. And Palin is a state governor, with the executive experience to match.

Shes got far more executive experience than Obama, who apart from writing 2 books of memoirs, giving a good speech at the 2004 DNC, getting elected to the US senate in 2004 and sealing up the DNC presidential nomination this month hasnt got any executive experience or track record to speak of.

Honestly, I almost needed to raid my baby's supply of Pampers when I read the above. Wey hey, who's been tuning in to Fox News?!

KJ_2008 · 03-09-2008 3:41am

mumhaabu wrote: »

America is the greatest country in the world and this has been majorly down to the GOP and FDR (who deserves credit too).

Just wondering, where you educated in the Wasilla School of Semi-Advanced Technology?

Yep, thought so

KJ_2008 · 03-09-2008 3:42am

Pocono Joe wrote: »

She embodies what a lot of Americans consider a true American to be.

What? A gun-toting moron with a pregnant teenager?

KJ_2008 · 03-09-2008 3:46am

snow scorpion wrote: »

Palin was a mayor for 6 years and has been a governor for 2 years - that's 8 years more executive experience than Obama and Biden have combined.

Mayor of Wasilla: population 6,000

Governor of Alaska: population smaller than Brooklyn.

Yep, she's ready to lead America when/if McCain snuffs it.

KJ_2008 · 03-09-2008 3:50am

Sand wrote: »

I think shes an exceptional choice.

I'm going to store this one and reproduce it at the most sweetly appropriate time.

McCain tonight? He's thinking: I have to dump her from the ticket, she's a catastrophic choice, but

(a) If I dump her I lose the election because my judgement is shown to be comical

(b) If I keep her I lose the election because my judgement is shown to be comical

Oooh, tricky choice.

Soby · 03-09-2008 3:55am

couldnt have said all that in one post no?

Manic Moran · 03-09-2008 5:50am

KJ_2008 wrote: »

Really?

No offense to Mr Smith and his blog, but I'm more inclined to go with the newspaper.

http://www.adn.com/politics/story/476430.html

In September 2003, Wooten, McCann and a friend who was a Wasilla police officer, Chris Watchus, hunted moose from a boat in the Jim Creek area.

Err, the Palin family.

Any independent witnesses?

Nope.

Well, yes, according the same newspaper article which cites COL Grimes' conclusions.

NTM

Sand · 03-09-2008 8:48am

I'm going to store this one and reproduce it at the most sweetly appropriate time.

McCain tonight? He's thinking: I have to dump her from the ticket, she's a catastrophic choice, but

(a) If I dump her I lose the election because my judgement is shown to be comical

(b) If I keep her I lose the election because my judgement is shown to be comical

Oooh, tricky choice.

She seems to have truly worried the Democrats. Theyve gone into a frenzy of attacks based on false rumours and muck raking and still havent landed any blows. She looked for the firing of a seriously misbehaving policeman. Woopdie doo. Her daughter is pregnant. Woopdie doo. Obama has snorted cocaine ffs. Tricky choice indeed.

Lets face it, the Dems are attacking a state Governor on the basis of not having enough experience to be the US VP, when they are having to claim a first term senator with no executive experience is ready to be the actual US President. Thats ludicrous.

When you step back from the Obama campaign and take a look at it - its amazing. This is a self made man, with a *very* carefully crafted image and a gift of oratory with no significant political achievements or track record. His finest achievement to date [ apart from releasing two books of memoirs with very little to write about...] is having convinced the Democrat party to make him their nominee. Like Paris Hilton, hes famous for being famous.

Whatever risks choosing Palin for VP might entail, theyre insignificant compared to trying to sell Obama as President. Theyve already had to rush in Biden to try and reassure people that someone will be ready to take care of business whilst Obama learns how to run an executive office. Though Biden is on record as saying the US presidency doesnt lend itself to on the job training.

Hobbes · 03-09-2008 9:20am

Sand wrote: »

Theyve gone into a frenzy of attacks based on false rumours and muck raking and still havent landed any blows.

Only 1 false rumor so far, and that helped bring up another issue she was trying to hide. She is in no way qualified to be a VP.

Here is her giving a speech to her church recently. Speaks volumes to what this woman is like.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/02/palins-church-may-have-sh_n_123205.html

Her daughter is pregnant. Woopdie doo.

When your platform is no contraception, abstinence only then yea it does become a bit of an issue.

Obama has snorted cocaine ffs.

Interesting. That news broke back in January. Surprised the media didn't make a big deal out of that?

Thats ludicrous.

No ludicrous is watching the Republican party trying to defend Palin by claiming being part of a PTA as experience in being a VP.

Palins bachelors degree in Journalism from University of Idaho Vs. Obama's Columbia Political Science and Harvard Law?

Sorry there is no contest.

When you step back from the Obama campaign and take a look at it...

I think you stepped back too far and fell off the cliff. When I read up on him it is nothing like your sound bite.

theyre insignificant compared to trying to sell Obama as President.

:rolleyes:

Had to rush in Biden

They did? When did they rush him in? Was Obama planning to pick a VP later? I was not aware of this. Prehaps you can point us to where you saw this.

axer · 03-09-2008 9:34am

Palin was a rush and a knee jerk reaction to Obama's pick of Biden and the problems of the Hillary Clinton supporters.

It is hillarious that some women in the McCain camp keep spouting the term "sexist" about everything negative said about the woman. Acting that way is very belittling of women.

is_that_so · 03-09-2008 9:59am

axer wrote: »

Palin was a rush and a knee jerk reaction to Obama's pick of Biden and the problems of the Hillary Clinton supporters.

It is hillarious that some women in the McCain camp keep spouting the term "sexist" about everything negative said about the woman. Acting that way is very belittling of women.

It's not all about Clinton and her disgruntled supporters although paradoxically she has paved the way for the possibility of Palin on the ticket. Bush got in the last time because the conservatives were persuaded to get out and vote. She appeals to that wing of the party and by the sounds of it they love her. Psychologically the Reps seem to be very energised. She also seems to appeal to a part of America that we really don't see or have very poor opinions of.

There is sexism at work in the same way as Clinton got hit, because it can go to "character" or "suitability". It can be phrased as a genuine question but many of these types of questions about family would never be asked about any of the men on the tickets.

BTW what do you mean by that last line?

jank · 03-09-2008 10:29am

Pocono Joe wrote: »

Surprise... I disagree with most of what you have to say, except I agree with you that this will be a close election (if I'm the PJ you speak about).

So counter those arguments

Pocono Joe wrote: »

I think she has more executive experience than the other three.

More the McCain or Biden:eek:

Pocono Joe wrote: »

I think I'll better know about the bounce after the GOP speeches (but have you seen zogby?).

http://www.zogby.com/news/ReadNews.dbm?ID=1547
Is this the poll your on about. I think this was an online poll so it would not be as accutate as others.

Pocono Joe wrote: »

But hey... if this election didn't have more twists than the plot of "Lost," these discussions would be pretty bland. So grab some popcorn, flex the fingers and let'r rip.

I agree but do you really see a sliver bullet for McCain?

axer · 03-09-2008 10:38am

is_that_so wrote: »

There is sexism at work in the same way as Clinton got hit, because it can go to "character" or "suitability". It can be phrased as a genuine question but many of these types of questions about family would never be asked about any of the men on the tickets.

Obama got hit with the same questions of suitability etc. I don't remember Clinton getting hit regarding family or questions of.

With regards Palin, she is getting hit about her daughter because of her stance on sex education. I think it is a kind of "look how you teaching of abstinence worked for your daughter - what makes you think the whole town or state will listen if even your own daughter doesn't".

is_that_so wrote: »

BTW what do you mean by that last line?

I mean that it is belittling and sexist of women in the McCain-Palin camp to say that palin is getting criticised for the likes of lack of experience only because she is a woman or that it is somehow sexist to criticise her at all when they are the ones implying that it has to be because she is a woman as if that is a negative thing.

See here for an example:
http://edition.cnn.com/video/?JSONLINK=/video/politics/2008/09/02/lkl.palin.controversy.cnn

jank · 03-09-2008 10:44am

Good article here

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/andrew_sullivan/article4639741.ece

I like Andrew sullivan. And a Republican to boot!

is_that_so · 03-09-2008 11:00am

jank wrote: »

Good article here

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/andrew_sullivan/article4639741.ece

I like Andrew sullivan. And a Republican to boot!

He writes well and occasionally can get beyond his right wing tendencies.
Not bad apart from being wrong about Clinton. She helped him win by ignoring the fact that he was even a challenge, until he had already got momentum.

Here's one from the NY Times, in a similar vein, talking about Palin, but suggesting that it is their similarity of outlook that could be their undoing.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/02/opinion/02brooks.html?em

and Frank Luntz on Newsnight

CtrlSource · 03-09-2008 12:25pm

axer wrote: »

With regards Palin, she is getting hit about her daughter because of her stance on sex education. I think it is a kind of "look how you teaching of abstinence worked for your daughter - what makes you think the whole town or state will listen if even your own daughter doesn't"

Exactly. She is an advocate of Federal funding for teenage sexual abstinence programs. She is a legitimate target on this issue, even if her daughter is not.

Despite her apparent negatives, her existence on the GOP ticket has energised a decidedly lack-lustre McCain campaign and that's a good thing for them. Interesting to see how it plays out. i don't see many Clinton women coming over to McCain on foot of it. Perhaps some of the Reagan/Clinton Democrat men might be swayed by her addition though

Pocono Joe · 03-09-2008 1:34pm

It was interesting to see Joe Lieberman get behind the McCain/Palin ticket last night. Frankly his positive comments about Palin were surprising. Lieberman is friend of McCain and feels strongly about national security. I was expecting him to key only on those two issues and plead for non-partisan efforts to bring the country together. Although he is currently registered as an Independent, he is old style democrat through and through. Instead, he really socked it to the Democrats, which was astonishing! I see that some democrats like Chuck Schumer are already talking about stripping away any meaningful senatorial duties he occupies. Although I disagree with Joe on a majority of issues, I consider him a brave individual who does reach across the isle to move the country forward, and the type of individual we desperately need in breaking down the walls of partisanship. After last night, if McCain wins the election, I hope he appoints Lieberman as Secretary of State.

LolaLuv · 03-09-2008 1:37pm

Surely you must have seen the picture from Sarah Palin's youth in which she's wearing a shirt that says "I may be broke, but I'm not flat-busted". Haha, not very vice presidential, who cares? But WHY would her family release that? And her mother-in-law said she probably won't vote for her? Sup wit' dat?

Pocono Joe · 03-09-2008 1:59pm

PillyPen wrote: »

Surely you must have seen the picture from Sarah Palin's youth in which she's wearing a shirt that says "I may be broke, but I'm not flat-busted". Haha, not very vice presidential, who cares? But WHY would her family release that? And her mother-in-law said she probably won't vote for her? Sup wit' dat?

I haven’t seen or heard the things you mentioned. Links would be greatly appreciated. One thing I know about Alaskans… they are a unique bunch and really don’t care about political appearance and correctness. As for the reference about the mother-in-law, I can’t comment on that, only to say the fact that Palin has the highest approval rating of any of the U.S. Governors speaks volumes.

I was listening to the Mark Levin show last night on the radio. He spoke with a caller from Alaska. The caller admitted that he was a democrat and disagreed with Palin on a lot of her issues. But he went on to say that it’s okay for Alaskans to criticize Palin, but not for anyone else! He also said the left and democrats need to honor her accomplishments and not go down the vile slippery slope he is seeing. He said they better watch out! Sarah doesn’t have the title "Barracuda" for nothing.

LolaLuv · 03-09-2008 2:06pm

Pocono Joe wrote: »

I haven’t seen or heard the things you mentioned. Links would be greatly appreciated. One thing I know about Alaskans… they are a unique bunch and really don’t care about political appearance and correctness. As for the reference about the mother-in-law, I can’t comment on that, only to say the fact that Palin has the highest approval rating of any of the U.S. Governors speaks volumes.

I was listening to the Mark Levin show last night on the radio. He spoke with a caller from Alaska. The caller admitted that he was a democrat and disagreed with Palin on a lot of her issues. But he went on to say that it’s okay for Alaskans to criticize Palin, but not for anyone else! He also said the left and democrats need to honor her accomplishments and not go down the vile slippery slope he is seeing. He said they better watch out! Sarah doesn’t have the title "Barracuda" for nothing.

Ah, the political correctness thing makes sense. It just seems mean of the mother-in-law! I probably wouldn't vote for my d-i-l if she were such a connie either, but I wouldn't go around telling everyone that!

Ha, there's nooooo way that guy was a Dem! He was either a lying Repub or he just thinks she's hot! Sure, her accomplishments are great, but (and this is political viewpoints aside), I really think McCain made a poor choice for VP. She's nowhere near experienced enough to possibly be pres should he kick the bucket while in office! And the conservative retort to that has generally been that Obama isn't, either, but at least he's kept current on the war in Iraq! (But I wanted Hillary.

)

Here's the pic:

http://perezhilton.com/2008-09-02-this-photo-is-real

Yes, it's from a gossip site, so what I love my crap news.

is_that_so · 03-09-2008 2:14pm

axer wrote: »

Obama got hit with the same questions of suitability etc. I don't remember Clinton getting hit regarding family or questions of.

It wasn't so much the questions as attitudes. And had it been Clinton and not Obama those same attitudes would have applied for both. Comments about clothes, hair style; etc, are all sexist. Clinton was seen as icy if she was taking a strong stand whereas a man would be "strong".
The whole tears episode, for a man would have been showing his soft side, whereas in Clinton's case it became a raging debate about whether she was manipulating people.

Plenty out there to look at but seeing as everyone else loves it, this may help and sums it up far better than I could.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/elaine-hopkins/unmasking-sexism-in-media_b_90916.html

Pocono Joe · 03-09-2008 2:14pm

Philly… Perez Hilton! And here I was starting to respect your opinions, no matter how misguided. :rolleyes:

Yes the guy was a democrat. He talked about several things he didn't like about her.

Even Joe Lieberman said last night that Palin was ready to be President if something happened to McCain, but went on to say this election is about the President, not so much the VP… and he should know.

And I would prefer Clinton over Obama also if I had to choose between only those two.

LolaLuv · 03-09-2008 2:17pm

Ha, Perez rocks, you're just jealous that you can't read it without people around you think you have a case of the ghey

Well Joe Lieberman is obviously taking the piss. Ok, I'm really not trying to be divisive, but just for funsies check out the Wasilla city hall! You have to admit it's hilarious!

http://www.flickr.com/photos/djcn0te/319098225/in/set-72157594414445112/

That's just pure comedic gold!

Pocono Joe · 03-09-2008 2:28pm

PillyPen wrote: »

Ok, I'm really not trying to be divisive, but just for funsies check out the Wasilla city hall! You have to admit it's hilarious!

That's just pure comedic gold!

I grew up in a small town also. Picture looks about right to me… at least there’s was above ground level.

And people keep talking about her stint as mayor of a small town and not her role as Governor. Let me tell you this… I’d much rather have to deal with Washington cronies or international leaders, than have to deal with small town characters and politics (I know).

axer · 03-09-2008 2:33pm

Pocono Joe wrote: »

I’d much rather have to deal with Washington cronies or international leaders, than have to deal with small town characters and politics (I know).

But they are completely different environments and different politics - so what would she know about dealing with "Washington cronies or international leaders" as you put it since that is who she will have to deal with? There is a huge difference in both responsibility and repercussions.

Pocono Joe · 03-09-2008 2:36pm

jank wrote: »

So counter those arguments

Hey jank, help a yank out and instruct me on how ya’ll get multiple quotes into a post, and I will oblige you.

Pocono Joe · 03-09-2008 2:41pm

axer wrote: »

But they are completely different environments and different politics - so what would she know about dealing with "Washington cronies or international leaders" as you put it since that is who she will have to deal with? There is a huge difference in both responsibility and repercussions.

Sure they are different, what we are talking about here is the art of negotiation. It’s about the ability to deal with, and still get things done, the most selfish, closed minded, arrogant, self centered and opinionated individuals you will ever come across. If you ever lived in a small town here in the US, you would know what I'm talking about.

LolaLuv · 03-09-2008 2:45pm

Pocono Joe wrote: »

Sure they are different, what we are talking about here is the art of negotiation. It’s about the ability to deal with, and still get things done, the most selfish, closed minded, arrogant, self centered and opinionated individuals you will ever come across. If you ever lived in a small town here in the US, you would know what I'm talking about.

Ha, that's the truth. PA is horrible for that and I imagine Alaska is worse. Still, I come from a town of about 38,000 (Williamsport, PJ, if you're from the Poconos you probably know it), and this is our city hall. How small must Wasilla be? Of course, she went on to become governor, but of Alaska. I'm not sure that's really valid experience for VP.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/66/City_Hall_Williamsport_Pennsylvania.JPG/250px-City_Hall_Williamsport_Pennsylvania.JPG