Are the Motors>Motors mods too Lock happy?

Balfa

This thread and/or sandwich about to bit the dust: vote quickly

Darragh29 wrote: »

Why can't they have a forum of their own in motors???

Because then we'd only be telling other BMW drivers that we have a BMW, and where's the fun in that??
Seriously though. There are probably two reasons for this: 1. The 3-series sells really well, so lots of people have them. 2. Someone who owns a BMW is probably more likely to be into cars in general (and hence interested in a motors forum) than your average micra driver. I don't see the problem.

Back on topic: I don't have a problem with the closage of threads. I don't think I've ever felt like I missed getting my point across because of a closed thread, and I typically come late to most threads, because of my timezone difference.

And by the way, my answer to the question "Are mods overinterfering in the Motors forum" is NO. I don't know why I should have to pick neutral ;P

Darragh29

No: not enough mod control : too many threads out of control

Balfa wrote: »

Because then we'd only be telling other BMW drivers that we have a BMW, and where's the fun in that??
Seriously though. There are probably two reasons for this: 1. The 3-series sells really well, so lots of people have them. 2. Someone who owns a BMW is probably more likely to be into cars in general (and hence interested in a motors forum) than your average micra driver. I don't see the problem.

Back on topic: I don't have a problem with the closage of threads. I don't think I've ever felt like I missed getting my point across because of a closed thread, and I typically come late to most threads, because of my timezone difference.

And by the way, my answer to the question "Are mods overinterfering in the Motors forum" is NO. I don't know why I should have to pick neutral ;P

:P:P:P

E92

No: not enough mod control : too many threads out of control

Onkle wrote: »

Hang on, it's not a poor forum. You haven't been around here for ages cos you got your knickers in a twist about the use of the freemasons crest and you come back and call it a poor forum?

Well what do you want him to do? Just put up and say nothing?

Motors should be a haven for good and proper discussion about cars, and car related topics. Clearly when people who are interested in cars, and don't see the point of posting in a forum that's supposed to be about cars, there is something wrong.

It's only fair that people voice their opinions, nobody's perfect, and no matter what way things are moderated it'll never satisfy everyone, but that's life and that's the way these things are.

ned78 wrote: »

It is a poor forum. It may be popular, but as far as content goes, it's inadequate. Just because I haven't been around for a while, doesn't mean I haven't been reading it. People are far too bitchy, and argument happy, and ready to fire of a stream of bitterness and a penny's drop ... just as you've done. There's no community spirit in this forum.

Well like ned78 says, there's a BIG difference between a forum being popular and being good. I haven't posted for the past 2 weeks, because I was just simply getting tired of the way things were going, and I haven't regretted my decision, but it doesn't for a second mean that I haven't been looking to see what's going on, and rest assured if things improve then I'll happily resume posting.

If somebody asks a question then one shouldn't have to worry about their post being censored within reason obviously, but recently every third post has a mod edit in it - now I'm here long enough to know that this sort of thing did NOT happen until recently, and it's not like the content of posts and replys etc has changed a lot - though I notice fewer and fewer genuine enthusiasts posting - it's more the person who has a bit of an interest in cars, and don't get me wrong, I'm all for people posting provided they're interested, nothing pleases me more than seeing more and more people being interested in cars, BUT it is not a good sign when people who are really into cars don't post here.

peasant wrote: »

We have never, ever locked a thread because we personally don't agree with it. Threads are always locked for one of the following reasons:

Well the first thing I should do is apologise, because I started criticising you earlier today and then unfortunately I had to go and thus was unable to get back to you until now. I don't believe in having a go in someone and then abandoning ship, without justifying my position on things.

peasant wrote: »

1) the thread has drifted off topic (which in itself is no problem, really) and on top of that is going nowhere or round in circles

Why go and warn people about being off topic, not to mention trying to steer the course of direction on the thread then? If it's excessively OT then fair enough, but you have a very literal interpretation of what constitutes going OT, in my humble opinion.

peasant wrote: »

2) two or more posters in the thread have started to loose the plot, the insults are flying, posts are getting reported (which users normally don't see) and the discussion is getting personal instead of on topic. In my opinion (and I presume in that of the other mods as well) it is the least damaging option to lock the thread rather than trying to keep a lid on a box of frogs (which usually never works anyway) and having to hand out infractions or even bannings like candy in end. Locking the thread is annoying to those in the middle of the argument, I understand that, but I honestly belive that in the long run it is better than infracting / banning

I don't see what's wrong with people having a heated debate, provided there aren't personal insults going around and nobody is trolling.

peasant wrote: »

3) a thread is in violation of the forum charter. (At the time the charter was developed, all users had a say in it)

4) an ancient thread has been dug up from the archives without any good reason.

No quibbles there, that's the way things always were, and should remain!(though most of the mod edits etc are nothing to do with these)

peasant wrote: »

Moderating such a forum is not easy ...because whatever you do (lock or leave it open for example) there will be a sizeable group of users that don't like that decision.

Overall, I think we are doing a fairly even handed job. But as I personally seem to be getting the most criticism here ...well, I'm willing to listen to it ...

I appreciate that no matter what you do, there will always be people complaining, and you won't be able to please everyone, but I think the point that I, and others seem to be agreeing on is that there is far too much heavy handedness in terms of moderating. Every third post has "mod edit" or "snip" on it these days(you've edited several of my posts for reasons that are quite frankly hard to fathom why even though I've seen the explanation, like the time I asked for a link to JC's old Vauxhall Vectra test because I said "it can't be that hard to find because TG is something like the world's most pirated forum"), that just simply did not happen before.

There seems to be far more interfering with threads (now I'm all for moderators editing obscene, pimping etc posts, I don't for a second mean that we should all be allowed to run amok), far too many warnings about people going OT(this used to happen all the time before and nobody said nothing), and a very literal interpretation of what constitutes being on topic; not all the time from you to be fair, but you do interfere noticeably more often than unkel or kbannon in terms of steering the direction of the thread if you like. Threads don't take their course like they used to.

That is my beef specifically with the moderating on this forum.

Now I have problems with some of the rubbish that's posted on a forum that's supposed to be for car enthusiasts, but that's not the moderators' fault, so I have no right to moan about that, and hence I'm not going to.

copacetic

This thread and/or sandwich about to bit the dust: vote quickly

the mods have a tough job, personally I think the easy option of locking the threads is taken too often but it is often the easiest thing to do. I'd prefer to see the various idiots who flame OPs and other posters to get bans rather than lock threads that get out of hand due to their flaming. There have been a few threads where there was a decent thread ruined first by people flaming and slagging off other posters which then led to the thread being locked. The flamers win.

However as I said having to deal with the amount of idiots around is a nightmare for the mods so I'd back them up 99% of the time.

Max_Damage

No: not enough mod control : too many threads out of control

In my opinion, old threads shouldn't be locked. There is absolutely no reason to lock them in my opinion.

Max_Damage

No: not enough mod control : too many threads out of control

peasant wrote: »

1) the thread has drifted off topic (which in itself is no problem, really) and on top of that is going nowhere or round in circles

Threads in the classic cars forum nearly ALWAYS go off topic (usually caused by me! ), and they're usually never locked, which is a good thing IMO. Same sort of condition should apply to this forum.

E92

No: not enough mod control : too many threads out of control

neuromancer wrote: »

+1 on the BMW sub-Forum, but saying that there is already forums out there for BMW, within Ireland too.


I think too many threads pop up that have been covered WAY too much, and tbh the Motors forum tires me. ie VRT, fog lights, penalty points.

I would suggest Stickies just for these subjects alone, but be an instant improvement.

I'm now going to contradict a bit of what I've just said - though it's related to my point about some of the nonsense posted in that I completely agree with threads like foglights, VRT etc being locked, and posters being banned if absolutely necessary. We've done them to death at this stage. I wouldn't even bother with stickies - they've been covered to death at this stage - though it would be vastly superior to the current situation.

I also think that we ought to ban any new speeding threads, unless something new happens like the daft proposal by the Greens to lower speed limits.

But threads of this nature just for the sake of it are a real waste of time.

The whole BMW sub-forum thing would bore me to tears, there are already acres of them around for anyone who wants one - however it is a fact of life, like or lump it, that a disproportionate number of car enthusiasts are BMW owners/fans of the marque/people who are thinking of buying one.

I think the creation of an off-road & 4X4 forum was regrettable, they are a type of car and IMHO it should have stayed here. Though I believe that enough people wanted that, so that's fair enough, I can't complain about that then really.

I never look at that forum - whereas before when they were all mixed in together, I always did, just out of interest, and sometimes I might have had something to say too.

colm_mcm

No: not enough mod control : too many threads out of control

but a huge number of BMW drivers seem to use boards, it'd be great to send them somewhere.

Every second thread seems to be about a 3 series.

peasant

E92

Thanks for your lengthy post, I will digest it in detail later.

Just one point:

The reason why you see more moderation (good or bad) going on recently is because there is one more mod (me).

I happen to be online during the day more often than unkle or kbannon so -threads get moderated more often than they used to - and it's usually me that does it.

I don't think that I censor posts, I'd like to believe that I moderate them. The <SNIPS> that you hate so much are usually nothing but "fcuks and cnuts" removed that have no place in a civilised discussion anyway.

My "interference" in trying to control the direction of a thread or warnings to people are nothing else but the alternative to thread closure (or bans)

So what am I to do?
If I try to steer, I'm "interfering"..if I let it run to breaking point and lock it, then I'm "heavy handed".

I'm not saying that I'm getting it right all the time ...but I'm trying my best.

Most of my decisions are made within a few seconds ...because I'm working as well as moderating ...and sometimes I do get it wrong.

peasant

Max_Damage wrote: »

Threads in the classic cars forum nearly ALWAYS go off topic (usually caused by me! ), and they're usually never locked, which is a good thing IMO. Same sort of condition should apply to this forum.

The classics forum (thankfully) is a very cosy affair where mostly regulars post among themselves and everybody knows what they're talking about or refering to, even if it is off topic.

Main motors is different in that it is a lot busier and there needs to be some order ...otherwise everything would just end up in the one thread.

ninty9er

E92 wrote: »

I also think that we ought to ban any new speeding threads, unless something new happens like the daft proposal by the Greens to lower speed limits.

+1

Maybe a standard pm should be agreed between the mods to the person who started such a thread explaining why it has been deleted.

Please can mods start deleting threads instread of closing them. It bugs me for some reason and I don't know why.

On the heated debate. Myself and r3nu4l had a heated debate following the most recent fog light thread. It was all in good fun and we sorted it via pm between the 2 of us. Maybe this option should be suggested more often rather than one reply I got when I posted a clarification which asked me simply to "refrain from sending me any more of this drivel".

I did and added said member to my ignore list. Which should be pointed to as an option. I can't imagine how many people's I'm on, not because of what I post but because of what's in my sig, but what the hell. These people's opinions don't bother me. In general when you ask a question here
1) you get a good-humoured roasting for being so stupid and then the real answers start coming (I have no solid backup but have a feeling these are the type of threads that get closed too early)
2) you get all the info without the roasting.

I'm not going to claim to be a car nut with oil in my veins, but I like to keep up to date on the specs and options for current cars, building up a mental database of those that went before as I go along and keeping up to date.

I find posters like E92 and VB very informative and cordial and think it's to the detriment of the forum that more like them are becoming more infrequent posters.

I've only ever once had a problem in here, which to be honest was of my own making on a political issue, though I still believe the other party should have had the same ban considering there were some other posters backing up my arguments.

Seth Brundle

What threads have been 'intefered' with?
As for old threads, etc. People do resurrect an old thread from a year or two ago asking the same question or whatever. Its easier on readers to read through a new thread rather than have to refresh themselves with a possibly long, old and irrelevant thread. But they don't always get locked, if they are still relevant.

As for locking threads 'prematurely', I have often locked a thread for someone to PM me asking me to reopen it to post a final word or whatever. These are always given fair consideration and in the majority of cases I get them to PM me a copy of the final post and if its fair then I decide to unlock the thread for them!

I could type loads more stuff but I really don't want to go on. I think the levels of moderation for such a busy forum is quite low. On most other forums, people would be banned for things that often get a warning here. I'm not saying that other mods are more strict but I think its more a case that the motors are fairly relaxed and the relaxed atmosphere has worked well in here for a very long time, since Mike's time in fact.

Seth Brundle

and as for overintefereing, I've never intefered with anyone - the judge dismissed all of the charges

WHITE_P

I think peasant does an excellent job modding threads. If he has a point to make in a thread he does so without being condesending or ignorant towards other posters. As for locking threads, the charter is there and should be read.

Gary ITR

This thread and/or sandwich about to bit the dust: vote quickly

Peasant is unfairly being picked on, only reason it seems like peasant is overmodding is because he spends a lot more time here than unkel or kbannon.

Actually peasant should get their share of the coke and hookers

Alanstrainor

WHITE_P wrote: »

I think peasant does an excellent job modding threads. If he has a point to make in a thread he does so without being condesending or ignorant towards other posters. As for locking threads, the charter is there and should be read.

+1, Modding is no easy task, especially on such an active forum, all i can do is praise Peasant for his level headedness and competency on this forum.

peasant

Thanks to the last three posters for their support !


(But I'm not dividing my share of the c&h )

Darragh29

No: not enough mod control : too many threads out of control

WHITE_P wrote: »

I think peasant does an excellent job modding threads. If he has a point to make in a thread he does so without being condesending or ignorant towards other posters. As for locking threads, the charter is there and should be read.

Seems like the Mods could do with reading the charter themselves. Most disputes I've seem on here are a direct result of Mods selectively picking a particular clause of the charter when the topic of conversation turns to something that they disagree with or clashes with their signature, 5 or 6 pages after the charter has first been breached. Also, you see every single day here, a critical thead being started about "Lee Harvey Oswald Motors", which ends up being locked 5 pages later because people have hopped on the bandwagon and "Lee Harvey Oswald Motors" has now been slandered or whatever. Why not close the thead at the first instance when the OP starts criticising a garage and names them, a clear breach of the charter, instead of letting it go on for 5 pages when the legal damage has already been well and truly done and is still here for all to see and to sue for???

By all means be critical of a service provider, but naming them on the basis of complete heresay is another thing, I am surprised some of the bigger dealerships who have been taken to task on here without any evidence being offered to back up a set of allegations, have not taken up the legal cudgel. I would have imagined the the primary purpose of having a Mod, before all other duties, was to protect boards from being closed down or sued by a third party. I would have thought that all other issues come secondary to that...

Alanstrainor

Perhaps there was no Moderator online at the time? You can't expect round the clock moderation of a forum, there's bound to be a time when no mods are online.

Wishbone Ash

Darragh29 wrote: »

you see every single day here, a critical thead being started about "Lee Harvey Oswald Motors", which ends up being locked 5 pages later because people have hopped on the bandwagon and "Lee Harvey Oswald Motors" has now been slandered or whatever

* laughs*

I am a total JFK assassination "anorak" and am 100% certain that he acted alone!

...now back on topic.....:)

Darragh29

No: not enough mod control : too many threads out of control

Alanstrainor wrote: »

Perhaps there was no Moderator online at the time? You can't expect round the clock moderation of a forum, there's bound to be a time when no mods are online.

Doesn't seem to be any shortage of Mods when a poster disagrees with one of them. I was on this topic earlier discussing the virtues of modding and locking threads when a thread next door had been left open although the charter was breached five pages ago by the OP in her first sentence of the thread she started. Obviously there were Mods around as they were posting on this thread here about locking threads. I think its a question of being busy smart instead of being busy stupid as is currently the case...

RedorDead

Darragh29 wrote: »

This is the biggest problem right across boards. The slightest deviation whatsoever from the most popular line of discussion is cited as off topic discussion and that's the end of the discussion.

I agree but a few more warnings to get back on topic would be desireable before ultimate locking.

Steve

This thread and/or sandwich about to bit the dust: vote quickly

Peasant is doing a fine job - motors is evolving, as is the rest of boards, and so must the moderation.

Somebody suggested this should have been in feedback - meh, that place is gone to the dogs and this would have been locked hours ago.

I suggested recently that maybe it's time to separate 'motors' and 'motoring' into two distinct fora, not something I'd be altogether happy with but it would maybe make sense as the two seem unwilling to co-exist.

Motors is the third most popular section on Irelands most popular forum and I'm proud to be a part of it.

[joke]
If Peasant stopped locking threads we'd easily move up a slot:D
[/joke]

peasant

Darragh29 wrote: »

Doesn't seem to be any shortage of Mods when a poster disagrees with one of them. I was on this topic earlier discussing the virtues of modding and locking threads when a thread next door had been left open although the charter was breached five pages ago by the OP in her first sentence of the thread she started. Obviously there were Mods around as they were posting on this thread here about locking threads. I think its a question of being busy smart instead of being busy stupid as is currently the case...

see this button ?

That's what you press to report a dodgy post rather than wait that a moderator may or may not see it.

Orange69

Speaking of improving the motors forum.. Can someone sticky the "Heres what i saw today thread"?..

That is all..

ninty9er

Orange69 wrote: »

Speaking of improving the motors forum.. Can someone sticky the "Heres what i saw today thread"?..

That is all..

And also re-sticky the post a pic of your car [consolidated]

mikewest

Is this not the same grumble that has been wandering from forum to forum around boards the last few months. I am a long time lurker but desperation is driving me to agree with the OP that the type of moderation is excessive and heavy handed. Now before the mods on this forum jump up and down on me for my heresy may I say that it is not the individual mods I am leveling my complaint at, but rather the collective. Boards, if I understand correctly grew out of a multiplayer game and grew and grew, but despite the years that passed never really grew up (good thing). Maybe a think tank for the mods is called for, not just the motor mods but all mods and a re-appraisal of the direction of moderation on this whole discussion board.

Darragh29

No: not enough mod control : too many threads out of control

peasant wrote: »

see this button ?

That's what you press to report a dodgy post rather than wait that a moderator may or may not see it.

And who am I, your humble servant m'lord, to decide what is dodgy and what is acceptable to the King! ...And for my lord I will humbly pray...! :D:D I'm watching too much of The Tudors...

ninty9er

mikewest wrote: »

Maybe a think tank for the mods is called for

I think that's what this thread is about and why it was left open.

Gary ITR

This thread and/or sandwich about to bit the dust: vote quickly

Darragh29 wrote: »

Doesn't seem to be any shortage of Mods when a poster disagrees with one of them. I was on this topic earlier discussing the virtues of modding and locking threads when a thread next door had been left open although the charter was breached five pages ago by the OP in her first sentence of the thread she started. Obviously there were Mods around as they were posting on this thread here about locking threads. I think its a question of being busy smart instead of being busy stupid as is currently the case...

Can't expect the mods to read every thread. Use the report post function if you see something that breaches the charter. It's what it's there for