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What, if anything, would constitute proof?

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    #62
    studiorat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,408 ✭✭✭studiorat


    Mal-Adjusted wrote: »
    please, true religous persecution in the western world died out centuries ago. as for the middle-east...well, that's a diffirent kettle of fish

    Maybe you should define your idea of what religious persecution actually is then...

    Bosnia?

    Germany 1933 to 1945?

    Armenia?

    Cyprus?

    Do you not live on this planet or did you just miss those?

    Also,
    To answer your eh, question? about my previous post I was referring to asceticism. You know, Moses, Jesus, Elijah all in the desert or the mountains for 40 days, Muhammad with a similar experience in his cave. All had an epiphany which some would say could be brought on by hunger, isolation, altitude, fear, boredom, drugs, of a combination of these.

    I don't the "faithful" are being attacked here I think it's their "faith" that's being attacked.


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    #63
    Zillah
    Registered Users Posts: 17,371 ✭✭✭✭Zillah


    Mal-Adjusted wrote: »
    Of course there are instances of abuse, but by your definition every christian parent will beat their children so, if some do and some don't then it's clearly not bible stuff but something else.

    You seem to be saying that unless something causes the exact same reaction in all people then its not at fault, which is clearly not how the world works. Everyone responds to things in different ways. Like, if Bob and Mary get malaria, and Bob dies but Mary doesn't, do we say that it wasn't malaria that killed Bob? Because, if malaria killed people Mary would have died too.

    also (by your definition) the genocide of the Jews in the 30's-40's was caused by atheism as Hitler was an atheist.

    No no no no no. Hitler's genocide was caused by his insane dedication to Nazism, which is more like a religion than anything.
    Anyway, why the hell are you trying to get me to defent religion?

    I'm doing no such thing. I'm attacking religion, you seem to feel the need to defend it for some reason.
    you're trying to force an issue on me that has *in context* little relevance, so you can back me into a corner (someone else's) and start bitching. there are many people in the catholic and muslim forum who will happily indulge you there.
    read the posts above and try to stay on topic in the future:D

    No one forced you to come here and debate issues with Atheists. If you can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen :D


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    #64
    Dades
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,558 Mod ✭✭✭✭Dades


    Mal-Adjusted wrote: »
    firstly. that's funny, because i seem to be the only one here without an agenda.
    That's probably the key to this storm in a teacup. It's somewhat difficult to run a forum concerning atheism/agnosticism without discussing faith and it's many guises, which, let's be honest, can frequently be ridiculous. So yes, there is an agenda here in the same way every individual forum has an agenda. All religion is on the agenda.

    If you think faith or the faithful should be left in peace, post that thought in the Christianity forum, or the Islam forum where some believer is being "attacked". This forum is to allow discussion (and we have several Christians with thick enough skins who contribute regularly here).

    I'd hate to have to close this thread because this daft tangent keeps us up late.


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    #65
    CerebralCortex
    Registered Users Posts: 3,809 ✭✭✭CerebralCortex


    Mal-Adjusted wrote: »
    ....look who's talking about bieng smug... grow up....

    Thems be trolling words.


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    #66
    Goduznt Xzst
    Registered Users Posts: 1,353 ✭✭✭Goduznt Xzst


    Mal-Adjusted wrote: »
    also (by your definition) the genocide of the Jews in the 30's-40's was caused by atheism as Hitler was an atheist.

    I'm calling Godwins Law *hopes the trapdoor opens* :p

    Firstly you can't tar someone with the Atheist brush as easily as you can with a religious one. A lack of belief does not constitute a religion. People who follow a religion tend to share the same goals, morals, ethics and principles. This is not true of Atheists, there is no doctrine that dictates how we live. Saying that Atheism is a religion because I don't believe in God is like saying that not only are you a Christian, but you also follow the religions of not believing in Islam, not believing in Judaism... etc.

    Also, drawing a comparison between Atheists and Hitler is about as erroneous as saying that because Hitler accepted the laws of gravity then anyone who also accepts these laws is like Hitler.


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    #67
    Mal-Adjusted
    Registered Users Posts: 3,590 ✭✭✭Mal-Adjusted


    Goduznt Xzst wrote: »
    I'm calling Godwins Law *hopes the trapdoor opens* :p

    Firstly you can't tar someone with the Atheist brush as easily as you can with a religious one. A lack of belief does not constitute a religion. People who follow a religion tend to share the same goals, morals, ethics and principles. This is not true of Atheists, there is no doctrine that dictates how we live. Saying that Atheism is a religion because I don't believe in God is like saying that not only are you a Christian, but you also follow the religions of not believing in Islam, not believing in Judaism... etc.

    Also, drawing a comparison between Atheists and Hitler is about as erroneous as saying that because Hitler accepted the laws of gravity then anyone who also accepts these laws is like Hitler.

    nobody's claiming atheism is a religion. you know that yourself as well as anyone. but if your'e trying to paint religious people as inferior or amoral bacause of a few bible thumping nutjobs, you have to apply the same rules to atheist nutjobs as well


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    #68
    Zillah
    Registered Users Posts: 17,371 ✭✭✭✭Zillah


    Mal-Adjusted wrote: »
    but if your'e trying to paint religious people as inferior or amoral bacause of a few bible thumping nutjobs

    Who the hell did that?


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    #69
    axer
    Registered Users Posts: 5,517 ✭✭✭axer


    Mal-Adjusted wrote: »
    nobody's claiming atheism is a religion. you know that yourself as well as anyone. but if your'e trying to paint religious people as inferior or amoral bacause of a few bible thumping nutjobs, you have to apply the same rules to atheist nutjobs as well
    are mainstream catholics not supposed believe that homosexuality is amoral? that unbaptised babies burn in hell when they die?


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    #70
    Goduznt Xzst
    Registered Users Posts: 1,353 ✭✭✭Goduznt Xzst


    Mal-Adjusted wrote: »
    nobody's claiming atheism is a religion. you know that yourself as well as anyone. but if your'e trying to paint religious people as inferior or amoral bacause of a few bible thumping nutjobs, you have to apply the same rules to atheist nutjobs as well

    The difference is I consider people who believe in Santa, Goblins, Ghosts, Fairies, Gods, Demons, Angels as mentally inferior. Think of the way you'd view a 40 year old man who believes that the clay gnomes in his back garden come to life when he goes to bed, well thats how I view Christians and most religions.

    People of a religion also act the way they do because of the indoctrination that they have undergone in their religion. Also, if the religion itself admonishes reprehensible acts then it is the Religion itself that is at fault and not just a "few bible thumping nutjobs". Things like breeding homophobia and hatred, using violence to punish children, telling people to not use protection in areas where STD's are rampant, encouraging segregation, intolerance... etc


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