Goth Discussion

r3nu4l

SDooM wrote: »

Firstly, goths aren't mopey. It's a common misconception. See the perky goth in the other thread.

PEOPLE can be mopey.

I think you mean not ALL goths are mopey, it's clear that some are
This is the stereotype that most people will consider when they think of goths, like it or not. However, that may change now that the emo scene has appeared.

DemonLilith

What's the first rule of goth? NEVER admit you're a goth!!! :pac: Me i'm METAL, although i'm mistaken for a romantic goth all the time. prob something to do with the corsets and thevelvet.

SDooM wrote: »

The OP will never get an answer.

Firstly, goths aren't mopey. It's a common misconception. See the perky goth in the other thread.

PEOPLE can be mopey.

How do you define Goth?

You cannot. There is no king of goth, or government of goth (well, none that aren't self styled chancers). It's something which, like every other subculture grows and changes as things go along.

The closest you will probably get to a true definition of what is goth is an appreciation of the dark things in life.

Now I am not a goth, never claimed to be, but I would share several traits with people who are.

I like smart, dark clothes. Why? I like smart dark clothes. I like the look of them. I like the look of dark clothes on ladies too. Just do. I find the goth look attractive. I find the people who engage in it are often (but christ, not aways) attactive as people as we as physically.

I like horror movies. Don't know why, just love them. Gore is fun too. I'm fascinated by myths and legends and history, and the monstrocities which populate them.

I like alot of music connected to goth. Why? Because I like it. I like any music which is "clever" in it's own way. A disproportionate amount of what I like most seems to come from the metal/rawk/goth/EBM/industrial genres. Perhaps because they were slighty more resistant to commercialisation than whatever genre of the day is popuar.

I like to draw. I'm told my art has gothic leanings. Why? Because I like to draw that way.

These are all connected in little ways: They add up to someone who through the eyes of fuzzy logic is gothy. But I in no way represent the sterotype the OP believes in. I am happy, and work in a corporate job, and laugh and play like anyone else.

Goth is a label applied to a group of very disparate people, just like everything else. You can no more say all goths are depressed eye liner wearers in black than you can honestly say all gay people are flamboyantly camp. It in fact says alot more about the person saying it then the people they are talking about.

Now here's the kicker: Other people disagree with me on what goth means. some might think wearing the outlandish fashions as a statement is part of it: Others disillusionment with the world: But it's different to everyone. And so it should be!

If you seriously want a deconstruction of what is book I woud point you towards the written works of Voltaire who deconstructs it rather amusingly.

I hope that made sense.

.

Doctor DooM

DemonLilith wrote: »

What's the first rule of goth? NEVER admit you're a goth!!! :pac: Me i'm METAL, although i'm mistaken for a romantic goth all the time. prob something to do with the corsets and thevelvet.

Indeed, it's people who call themselves "true goths" you have to watch.

anonymous_joe

SDooM wrote: »

Indeed, it's people who call themselves "true goths" you have to watch.

Romans learned that the hard way.

Doctor DooM

anonymous_joe wrote: »

Romans learned that the hard way.

I always liked the word 'visigoth'.

Nevyn

SDooM wrote: »

I always liked the word 'visigoth'.

Always reminds me of the word vivisection which makes me smile.

Teutorix

Thaedydal wrote: »

Always reminds me of the word vivisection which makes me smile.

thats a little fukced up :eek:

anonymous_joe

SDooM wrote: »

I always liked the word 'visigoth'.

Don;t forget Ostrogoth.

Nerin

Teutorix wrote: »

thats a little fukced up :eek:

Really. Seriously. Out of all her posts you pick that one tsk tsk.

Teutorix

Nerin wrote: »

Really. Seriously. Out of all her posts you pick that one tsk tsk.

Well cutting open live animals is bad, but it making you smile kinda tops the creepy cake


Noun : Goth
A crude uncouth ill-bred person lacking culture or refinement.

I LOL'd

Doctor DooM

Thaedydal wrote: »

Always reminds me of the word vivisection which makes me smile.

*Adds a love of vivisection to the list of Lust's personality traits*

Teutorix wrote: »

thats a little fukced up :eek:

Thats why we love her.

Nerin wrote: »

Really. Seriously. Out of all her posts you pick that one tsk tsk.

To be fair dude, not everyone has read all 20,000 of her posts.

Teutorix wrote: »

Well cutting open live animals is bad, but it making you smile kinda tops the creepy cake


Noun : Goth
A crude uncouth ill-bred person lacking culture or refinement.

I LOL'd

Where'd you get that from? I would guess it's the literal use of the word Goth from the races they attacked.

Nerin

SDooM wrote: »

*Adds a love of vivisection to the list of Lust's personality traits*



Thats why we love her.



To be fair dude, not everyone has read all 20,000 of her posts.



Where'd you get that from? I would guess it's the literal use of the word Goth from the races they attacked.

touche

Doctor DooM

Teutorix wrote: »

Well cutting open live animals is bad, but it making you smile kinda tops the creepy cake

[mod]Now that I look at that dude, that's creeping a little close to a personal insult.

Attack the post, not the...[/mod]

DenMan

Everybody is different in their own way OP. While not a Goth myself I would be similar to SDooM. I do share a great deal of their interests and fascinations. I love to write and read a lot of Gothic literature and am fascinated by the Gothic architecture as a whole.
Goths appreciate the dark things in life. In fact a true appreciation of the dark psyche is essential in living imo. A lot of people do not want to look at that part of their lives and choose to ignore it. It is a unique perspective that more people should look at and appreciate.

Get out there OP and meet some Gothic people. You will not be disappointed. In fact it changed me for the better. I found a lot of friends, writing collaborators, gig goers etc. I had common interests with them and just clicked straight away. Go in with an open mind and be yourself. Explore.

Teutorix

SDooM wrote: »

Where'd you get that from? I would guess it's the literal use of the word Goth from the races they attacked.

Wordweb, a dictionary/thesaurus installed on my computer

SDooM wrote: »

[mod]Now that I look at that dude, that's creeping a little close to a personal insult.

Attack the post, not the...[/mod]

Oh very sorry, i didnt mean it to be a personal insult, i was just joking around

Nevyn

Teutorix wrote: »

Well cutting open live animals is bad, but it making you smile kinda tops the creepy cake

I get a cake for being creepy ?
how cool is that ?
what type cake ?
Is it a blood red velvet cake with chocolate icing ?

Doctor DooM

Thaedydal wrote: »

Is it a blood red velvet cake with chocolate icing ?

I haz a want.

Seriously, if being a goth means I get that, play me some cure right now.

Nevyn

SDooM wrote: »

I haz a want.

Seriously, if being a goth means I get that, play me some cure right now.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6JJlxL2ykPQ

So Doom wants red velvet cake for his going away party ?

Goth
VisGoth
Visissection*
Section**
Goth

* to pull something apart to better understand it and reflect on it which most Goths do to themselves.
**To be sectioned under the mental health act cos you don't think like
other people do cos you have dark thoughts and morbid interests cos you are half in love with death.

It is that word play and association which always make me smile and I prefer
to watch people squirm rather then animals.

Doctor DooM

Thaedydal wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6JJlxL2ykPQ

So Doom wants red velvet cake for his going away party ?

Goth
VisGoth
Visissection*
Section**
Goth

* to pull something apart to better understand it and reflect on it which most Goths do to themselves.
**To be sectioned under the mental health act cos you don't think like
other people do cos you have dark thoughts and morbid interests cos you are half in love with death.

It is that word play and association which always make me smile and I prefer
to watch people squirm rather then animals.

*Ignores rest of post*


I can haz cake?



Actually, for all my liking darky mc morbid stuff, I probably turn to mush quicker than most when playing with a puppy.

Nevyn

SDooM wrote: »

*Ignores rest of post*

:P

SDooM wrote: »

I can haz cake?

I'll see what I can do.

SDooM wrote: »

Actually, for all my liking darky mc morbid stuff, I probably turn to mush quicker than most when playing with a puppy.

Everyone who does have such leaning as usually something to counter balance it and the counterpoint make life all the sweeter.

Doctor DooM

Thaedydal wrote: »

:P



I'll see what I can do.



Everyone who does have such leaning as usually something to counter balance it and the counterpoint make life all the sweeter.

Would you even argue that people who like the darker side of things are more balanced in general because they're not ignoring parts of their own psyche?

(course, the caveat there is that people would be looking at the dark side of things a certain amount, all the time wouldn't be healthy at all).

Teutorix

SDooM wrote: »

Would you even argue that people who like the darker side of things are more balanced in general because they're not ignoring parts of their own psyche?

(course, the caveat there is that people would be looking at the dark side of things a certain amount, all the time wouldn't be healthy at all).

To quote one of my favourite movies of all time

"Always look on the bright side of life* *whistles*

Doctor DooM

Teutorix wrote: »

To quote one of my favourite movies of all time

"Always look on the bright side of life* *whistles*

Even that song says "Always look on the bright side of death"...

Teutorix

SDooM wrote: »

Even that song says "Always look on the bright side of death"...

but the bright side of it! Although i dont see a bright side myself

Nevyn

Teutorix wrote: »

but the bright side of it! Although i dont see a bright side myself

Cos it can be the end of misery and suffering ?

BaconZombie

Bacon...,?

Thaedydal wrote: »

Cos it can be the end of misery and suffering ?

Doctor DooM

Thaedydal wrote: »

Cos it can be the end of misery and suffering ?

You mean there's no coldplay after death?

Teutorix

Thaedydal wrote: »

Cos it can be the end of misery and suffering ?

Suppose, but im not sad or suffering, so i think life sounds pretty good at the mo

Doctor DooM

Teutorix wrote: »

Suppose, but im not sad or suffering, so i think life sounds pretty good at the mo

On a very sober note, if you have never been in the situation where you were glad that a relative died because it was an end to their suffering, you are very lucky.

Teutorix

SDooM wrote: »

On a very sober note, if you have never been in the situation where you were glad that a relative died because it was an end to their suffering, you are very lucky.

Yeah there hasnt been a death in my family for at least 8 or 9 years, no one that i knew anyway, great aunts and uncles that i never met etcetera.

Peppapig

I always thought that when somebody is outcast or really anti-social they say " oh well if I be a "goth", that means I will have a friend cos there will always be goths"

They Just wear the clothes and stuff to say F-off society in a good way.:rolleyes:

Doctor DooM

Peppapig wrote: »

I always thought that when somebody is outcast or really anti-social they say " oh well if I be a "goth", that means I will have a friend cos there will always be goths"

They Just wear the clothes and stuff to say F-off society in a good way.:rolleyes:

Being goth has exactly zero to do with being anti social. In fact, you could argue the opposite.

Piste

Back to Goth cakes:

Gloom

Nice one, Piste.

I love the first and last one. (Corpse Bride )

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydbDJqXCrFs

Piste

I think the conclusion of this thread is that Goths, like most people, are about cake.

Teutorix

Piste wrote: »

I think the conclusion of this thread is that Goths, like most people, are about cake.

But my friend, what if the cake is an illusion?

Doctor DooM

Piste wrote: »

I think the conclusion of this thread is that Goths, like most people, are about cake.

That's going in the next nocturnal podcast, just so you know.

Dragan

Piste wrote: »

I think the conclusion of this thread is that Goths, like most people, are about cake.

But of course!

I have always been involved in a lot of different groups. I never much liked limitations so would just what i wanted, dress how i wanted, listen to what i wanted. It's a possibility that this desire to not truly follow anyone trend or group or culture meant i was always on the outskirts of each "group" but their is one simply thing that i have learned from knowing so many people who were all into different things.

Ask 3 people in the same scene what that scene is about and you will get three different answers. As was already said, everything has a driver and life as an individual capable of cognitive thought just means that we all reach out to find commons lines, interests and associations with our fellow humans but for very different reasons and when we find something we can give it very different interpretations.

As such, "scenes" and "groups" and "trends" tend to have rough rules but that is about it. Go to a Psytrance night anywhere in town and you will find people who call themselves Goth but are dressed in neon dancing to beats about love, respect and happiness. Find a group of old school Goths and they may not be willing to accept the Neon Goths. Most social scenes work on a system of inclusion and exclusion. It's the EXCLUSIONS that tend to define that social scene a lot more than who they actually allow in, in my opinion.

In short, Goth, much like anything else, is a rough family of people with a shared and common interest, emtional base etc etc but with so many things feeding into it, and from it, that in a way it's an individual to each person as the there are people involved.

Just like anything else.

Nevyn

As the what type goth thread shows it is an Umbrella term,
pretty much like the term pagan.

It;s a way of looking at life and the world, a philosphy rather then a creed.

BaconZombie

The Cake is a LIE!!!
The Cake is a LIE!!!
The Cake is a LIE!!!
The Cake is a LIE!!!
The Cake is a LIE!!!

Teutorix wrote: »

But my friend, what if the cake is an illusion?

Piste wrote: »

Back to Goth cakes:

Dragan

The power of cake compels me!

Nevyn

SDooM wrote: »

You mean there's no coldplay after death?

Is that some sort of veiled and twisted reference to necrophilia ?

Teutorix

Thaedydal wrote: »

Is that some sort of veiled and twisted reference to necrophilia ?

Only you could find that kind of hidden meaning :rolleyes:

Karl Hungus

You know, it does seem to me that people are talking about Goth simply as a particular style of dress, or a scene, and completely glossing over the actual style of music.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ROnXv7Z7v28

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HYaDek7LPvE

Nevyn

eh the point is it is more then just music

BaconZombie

Because Goth musci <= Sh!T

Karl Hungus wrote: »

You know, it does seem to me that people are talking about Goth simply as a particular style of dress, or a scene, and completely glossing over the actual style of music.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ROnXv7Z7v28

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HYaDek7LPvE

Teutorix

BOFH_139 wrote: »

Because Goth musci <= Sh!T

:eek: oh no you didn't

Doctor DooM

Thaedydal wrote: »

eh the point is it is more then just music

Indeedily.

Karl Hungus

Thaedydal wrote: »

eh the point is it is more then just music

Never said it wasn't about more than just music, did I? Sure, there's a whole scene, but there is also a whole style of music as well. That's my point, nobody really seemed to mention the music in this thread, when that is a part of Goth.

Doctor DooM

Karl Hungus wrote: »

Never said it wasn't about more than just music, did I? Sure, there's a whole scene, but there is also a whole style of music as well. That's my point, nobody really seemed to mention the music in this thread, when that is a part of Goth.

I mentioned the music. I mentioned that I like of gothesque music.

Me, me, me.