Is Dim Mak Real

Boru.

April Raine wrote: »

Are you a member of ther Irish Medical Council and do they recognise your qualifications?

Nope. I'm not a doctor of western medicine. I'm an acupuncturist. Currently the Irish Medical Council do not recognize a Chinese Medical Qualification of any level - nor should they, it's a totally different system. Nor would I of course be a member of the Irish Medical Council - we have out own - the TCMCI, with an equally strict system of ethics guidelines etc, of which I am a recognized member, and AFPA etc.

pma-ire

Mikel wrote: »

There's a difference between being open minded and being gullible.
The tired old argument that we used to think the world was flat is often trotted out to show that science isn't the be all and end all.
But people who say that miss the point. Science is the only model which tries to prove itself wrong. Hence there was evidence that the earth was round and the perceived wisdom changed.
Not so with other methods, which only have longevity to back them up.
Things are dismissed or ignored by science only when there is no evidence
to back them up.
Knowledge is an incremental process, not so with charlatanism.
Homeopathy et al spring up from the ground fully formed.

Ancient cultures used to sacrifice people to volcanoes, I really wish they weren't held up as medical experts.

i totally agree with the first statement you made here and most of the rest.

but ancient cultures did understand the workings of the natural world and indeed the stars and planets much better than the western cultures that developed later.

i find it an odd notion that people today would think that people 2,3,4,5,6,7...10,000 years ago were not as intelligent as we are today.

Roper

pma-ire wrote: »

i find it an odd notion that people today would think that people 2,3,4,5,6,7...10,000 years ago were not as intelligent as we are today.

Um...

Aside from having a greater understanding of... everything... you mean? For every time people got things right in terms of which plants to use when someone got a rash or a mosquito bite, or how to fix a broken leg, there was probably 100 times where they put leeches on things, sacrificed a goat to cure a fever or prayed to cure a brain tumor. Does that make them stupid? No, but it does make them more ignorant than us through no fault of their own.

I can't remember the book but it may well be The End of Faith by Sam Harris, where the author says that if we could transport the most intelligent man from the 1600s to the present day, that he would be hopelessly ignorant. He would believe all sorts of things about the universe that would be totally ridiculous to you and I. Like or no, the bulk of what we know about the human body, medicine and the human body has been discovered in the last 300 years.

As for "alternative therapies". I leave people off because they're entitled to believe whatever they want. What would irritate me is that if insurance companies began to raise premiums because they provided cover for all sorts of quackery. I'd like to see how much crystal therapy costs Vivas to cover, and how much of that is passed on to me. At the moment our local community resource centre is running an Angel Therapy programme which, like all of their courses is subsidised by the taxpayer so the punter gets it for say €5 per session rather than €10. This sort of stuff creeps up on us. 10 years ago nobody knew what angel therapy was but now we have book shops with angel sections. You can't make it up- Literally, more and more people every year believe in fairies.

Now we can be all open minded and say "Oh yes but it's ancient and we must not opress people blah blah blah". But there may come a time where someone you know is sick and desperate, and be taken in by this sort of nonsense (believe me I know from bitter, painful experience that if you're the skeptic you will be the bad guy when this happens). There may even come a time where once again your government may have to ceed to the wishes of a religious group in major decisions affecting us all. So I'm done being nice to mumbo jumbo peddlers.

Now I'm all for including differing types of medicinal treatments, and as I have said I seemed to get benefit from accupuncture before, but not as the arrive (as Mikel said) ready made and ready to treat with "thousands of years" of un-empirical, anecdotal, tribal quackery to back them up. If they go away and test and prove then welcome to the fold. If not, then chuck them out with human sacrifices.

It's not new therapies that I'm afraid of, it's the people who won't throw the old ones out.
Sorry if all that is a rant but it's a subject I have quite strong opinions on... obviously.

April Raine

Roper wrote: »

. At the moment our local community resource centre is running an Angel Therapy programme which, like all of their courses is subsidised by the taxpayer so the punter gets it for say €5 per session rather than €10.

would it be possible to argue this is a waste of public money

10 years ago nobody knew what angel therapy was but now we have book shops with angel sections.

They used to put folk in institutions for talking to angels now they charge them money

SorGan

April Raine wrote: »

would it be possible to argue this is a waste of public money
They used to put folk in institutions for talking to angels now they charge them money

no argument necessary, its bullsh1t...angels???:pac::pac:

April Raine

SorGan wrote: »

no argument necessary:pac::pac:

Sorry did not make myself clear. I mean i have seen a community partnership' type organisation building be used to host such a programme. Would it be possible to make a formal objection to the source of the funding that it is a waste. I am not sure where they are funded from? I think it is NDP

Nothingcompares

well i wouldn't object personally because at the end of the day it's a couple of nutters meeting up doing something positive for an hour a week. i wouldn't go and try and shut it down because i felt at the end of the day, the source of it was pure nonsense. If we shut the angel therapies down we'd have to shut half the martial arts clubs down

Roper

Nothingcompares wrote: »

well i wouldn't object personally because at the end of the day it's a couple of nutters meeting up doing something positive for an hour a week. i wouldn't go and try and shut it down because i felt at the end of the day, the source of it was pure nonsense. If we shut the angel therapies down we'd have to shut half the martial arts clubs down

The idea that this is harmless only extends until someone desperate and deluded tries to use "alternative" therapy instead of medicine. I don't like people knowing my business but I've seen it happen up close and personal and thankfully someone is doing quite well now, but it took estrangement of family, serious arguments and the possibility of legal action between people who love each other to make that happen. I may never talk to someone I care about again but I know I've done the right thing and someone is alive because of taking a stance against a deluded individual who encouraged someone to walk away from medicine. The worst thing is that nobody was sinister or money grabbing or anything like that. People were just so hoplessly beguiled by the possibility of a miracle, painless cure that they grasped it. It happens everywhere.

Besides that, my community centre is run with public money. If people want to pray to their guardian angels they can rent a room anywhere but all the courses are subsidised afaik.

daveywavey08

Is dim mak real?

No.

Thread over.

Judomad

im sorry but ehhh YAWWWWWWWWWWN

oh and thanks for the reply April but you really didnt get the effect you wanted im afraid..

Baggio...

Regardless of my personal belief that Dim Mak is not real, but lets set that aside for a moment.

For those who believe it may be possible. Do you think it would be practical, or even possible to apply its principals in a dynamic struggle (as no fight is static), where the assailant has real intent to do you damage? Will you be able to get the perfect shot while you're under adrenal stress and fear? Also while you are taking and receiving blunt force trauma.

Have you ever used it in such a circumstance? If not, how can you be sure it will work under duress?

April Raine

Judomad wrote: »

im sorry but ehhh YAWWWWWWWWWWN

oh and thanks for the reply April but you really didnt get the effect you wanted im afraid..

how do you know what effect i wanted?;)

Judomad

April Raine wrote: »

how do you know what effect i wanted?;)

?????????????????????

meaning........

with your correction of spelling mistakes i pressumed you were looking to get under my skin but im afraid you failed, but its ok, well let it slip this time...:p

April Raine

Judomad wrote: »

?????????????????????

meaning........

with your correction of spelling mistakes i pressumed you were looking to get under my skin but im afraid you failed, but its ok, well let it slip this time...:p

you pressumed ;)mmmm

cowzerp

April Raine wrote: »

you pressumed ;)mmmm

April without been funny, slagging people over spelling is down right ignorant-for all you know he is dyslexic or whatever the spelling is for that..

iceage

I'm not dislocksic....I just can't spell. relax guys;)

April Raine

cowzerp wrote: »

April without been funny, slagging people over spelling is down right ignorant-for all you know he is dyslexic or whatever the spelling is for that..

relax we are only having a joke between us right Judomad?if you took it as an insult my sincere apologies

Judomad

April Raine wrote: »

relax we are only having a joke between us right Judomad?if you took it as an insult my sincere apologies

yeah its all a joke, including dum muck

ryoishin

April and judomad should get a room!

mickoo

dim muck is stupid, wizardry etc..

Judomad

ryoishin wrote: »

April and judomad should get a room!

im gameball for that..........hahahahaha joking....

but seriously what does she look like hahaha :P;)

SorGan

Judomad wrote: »

im gameball for that..........hahahahaha joking....

but seriously what does she look like hahaha :P;)

**moved to singles forum***






:pac:

Judomad

SorGan wrote: »

**moved to singles forum***






:pac:

thanks dude, training 7 days aswell as a mon-fri 9-5 job doesnt help with the females ya no haha

Dragan

Gonna give to the end of the day for this to start going somewhere, then i'm gonna lock it.

Too much love going on in here.:)

Judomad

Dragan wrote: »

Gonna give to the end of the day for this to start going somewhere, then i'm gonna lock it.

Too much love going on in here.:)

so i only have till the end of the day to get aprils number, talk about putting me on the spot man.....:P

Dragan

Judomad wrote: »

so i only have till the end of the day to get aprils number, talk about putting me on the spot man.....:P

I thought you thrived under pressure?:)

Judomad

Dragan wrote: »

I thought you thrived under pressure?:)

you know thats true buddy!!!!

you get my pm bout my fight i sent yesterday?

pma-ire

mickoo wrote: »

dim muck is stupid, wizardry etc..

hmmm, your argument is very interesting.

how you disected, digested and regurgatated the information is amazing!! :rolleyes:

pma-ire

as a final reply on this subjet here are some threads from maireland about this subject.

http://maireland.proboards50.com/index.cgi?board=pps

Judomad

i was banned for mentioning something in his above post, i will expect the same.

Dragan

Judomad wrote: »

i was banned for mentioning something in his above post, i will expect the same.

As far as i am aware the Martial Arts Ireland board is an independant board that has no issue with boards.ie

There is however a gym in town that operates under a similar name that does.

I don't think there is anything wrong with the post you pointed out dude but will double check.

Judomad

Dragan wrote: »

As far as i am aware the Martial Arts Ireland board is an independant board that has no issue with boards.ie

There is however a gym in town that operates under a similar name that does.

I don't think there is anything wrong with the post you pointed out dude but will double check.

top sticky....i mentioned someone not even in the sticky and got banned, he clearly just directly "mentioned"(which was the reason i was banned, mentioning some certain org) the same name in the top sticky.

Dragan

Judomad wrote: »

top sticky....i mentioned someone not even in the sticky and got banned, he clearly just directly "mentioned"(which was the reason i was banned, mentioning some certain org) the same name in the top sticky.

Jesus Gary,

I'll say this in plain english for ya, shut your trap till i get confirmation it's the same people will ya?:pac:

I don't think it is, if i am wrong i will apologise.:)

Cheers.

Judomad

Dragan wrote: »

Jesus Gary,

I'll say this in plain english for ya, shut your trap till i get confirmation it's the same people will ya?:pac:

I don't think it is, if i am wrong i will apologise.:)

Cheers.

right next cage of truth is me and you, even if you are 60kg heavier lol

arybvtcw0eolkf

Judomad wrote: »

thanks dude, training 7 days aswell as a mon-fri 9-5 job doesnt help with the females ya no haha

Bet it helps your grip strenght!

HammerHeadGym

Judomad wrote: »

...even if you are 60kg heavier lol

Dude, his lunch is 60 kg heavier than you LOL

Judomad

HammerHeadGym wrote: »

Dude, his lunch is 60 kg heavier than you LOL

hahahaha nice.....lets gang up on the big mean Dragan..haha, (im only saying that coz im too small to do it myself;) )

we could do a tag team mma fight

Dragan

Judomad wrote: »

right next cage of truth is me and you, even if you are 60kg heavier lol

I think that would go the way of Akebono Vs Gracie mate.....besides, my mother would disown me when she saw me getting my ass beat by a small dude!

Judomad

Dragan wrote: »

I think that would go the way of Akebono Vs Gracie mate.....besides, my mother would disown me when she saw me getting my ass beat by a small dude!

suppose so

Mikel

Roper wrote: »

Um...

Aside from having a greater understanding of... everything... you mean? For every time people got things right in terms of which plants to use when someone got a rash or a mosquito bite, or how to fix a broken leg, there was probably 100 times where they put leeches on things, sacrificed a goat to cure a fever or prayed to cure a brain tumor. Does that make them stupid? No, but it does make them more ignorant than us through no fault of their own.

I can't remember the book but it may well be The End of Faith by Sam Harris, where the author says that if we could transport the most intelligent man from the 1600s to the present day, that he would be hopelessly ignorant. He would believe all sorts of things about the universe that would be totally ridiculous to you and I. Like or no, the bulk of what we know about the human body, medicine and the human body has been discovered in the last 300 years.

As for "alternative therapies". I leave people off because they're entitled to believe whatever they want. What would irritate me is that if insurance companies began to raise premiums because they provided cover for all sorts of quackery. I'd like to see how much crystal therapy costs Vivas to cover, and how much of that is passed on to me. At the moment our local community resource centre is running an Angel Therapy programme which, like all of their courses is subsidised by the taxpayer so the punter gets it for say €5 per session rather than €10. This sort of stuff creeps up on us. 10 years ago nobody knew what angel therapy was but now we have book shops with angel sections. You can't make it up- Literally, more and more people every year believe in fairies.

Now we can be all open minded and say "Oh yes but it's ancient and we must not opress people blah blah blah". But there may come a time where someone you know is sick and desperate, and be taken in by this sort of nonsense (believe me I know from bitter, painful experience that if you're the skeptic you will be the bad guy when this happens). There may even come a time where once again your government may have to ceed to the wishes of a religious group in major decisions affecting us all. So I'm done being nice to mumbo jumbo peddlers.

Now I'm all for including differing types of medicinal treatments, and as I have said I seemed to get benefit from accupuncture before, but not as the arrive (as Mikel said) ready made and ready to treat with "thousands of years" of un-empirical, anecdotal, tribal quackery to back them up. If they go away and test and prove then welcome to the fold. If not, then chuck them out with human sacrifices.

It's not new therapies that I'm afraid of, it's the people who won't throw the old ones out.
Sorry if all that is a rant but it's a subject I have quite strong opinions on... obviously.

Pretty much what I was going to say.
The problem is that some people like to feel 'spiritual', and tend to be taken in by all sorts of mumbo jumbo.
It will only get worse.

wudangclan

i'm a bit late to this debate and havent read all the posts so please excuse me if i discuss ground already covered.;
is dim mak real???
according to what definition??
my understanding ,a general one only,is that dim mak is the attacking of points on the human body.simple enough.
i studied acupuncture for a couple of years (until a hand injury forced me to quit,and no acupuncture couldnt save me) so i know a little about acu points. the ones that interested me most as regards fighting are the ones were nerve ends are clustered,(physiology as regards to mythology),like when you were a kid and some ones messing with you and grip you by the neck or just above the knee and dig their fingers into the acupoints there,usually causing an acute reaction.
i fight sanshou,chinese kickboxing,which includes stand up wrestling and during wrestling drills i'll dig my fingers into certain of these points to irritate,distract,cause pain etc.
this is about as far as my application of dim mak goes.(i know all the rest of it about hitting certain points at certain times of the day to damage certain points but i've absolutley no idea if this works or not.)
i train with a guy (in no way a bull****ter) who got into an altercation one time and as the guy attacked him he dug his finger in to the fleshy area under the guys shoulder (about the place where lu 1 is located) and the guy just dropped in a heap in front of him (maybe he got him at the just the right hour??)
is dim mak real?as far as i'm concerned yes it is. can you do that five finger heart attack thing from kill bill,i doubt it very much.
apologies for my late inclusion to the debate.

pma-ire

wudangclan wrote: »

i'm a bit late to this debate and havent read all the posts so please excuse me if i discuss ground already covered.;
is dim mak real???
according to what definition??
my understanding ,a general one only,is that dim mak is the attacking of points on the human body.simple enough.
i studied acupuncture for a couple of years (until a hand injury forced me to quit,and no acupuncture couldnt save me) so i know a little about acu points. the ones that interested me most as regards fighting are the ones were nerve ends are clustered,(physiology as regards to mythology),like when you were a kid and some ones messing with you and grip you by the neck or just above the knee and dig their fingers into the acupoints there,usually causing an acute reaction.
i fight sanshou,chinese kickboxing,which includes stand up wrestling and during wrestling drills i'll dig my fingers into certain of these points to irritate,distract,cause pain etc.
this is about as far as my application of dim mak goes.(i know all the rest of it about hitting certain points at certain times of the day to damage certain points but i've absolutley no idea if this works or not.)
i train with a guy (in no way a bull****ter) who got into an altercation one time and as the guy attacked him he dug his finger in to the fleshy area under the guys shoulder (about the place where lu 1 is located) and the guy just dropped in a heap in front of him (maybe he got him at the just the right hour??)
is dim mak real?as far as i'm concerned yes it is. can you do that five finger heart attack thing from kill bill,i doubt it very much.
apologies for my late inclusion to the debate.

you've hit the nail on the head here.

the time of day thing is a mess to deal with and is not something i would want to rely on.

PP's are used by people a lot more than they think and are not mystical in any way.

your friend got that reaction due to the shock factor involved when a person has made taken that path in there head to attack you and you attack them in an area that they do not think will result in so much pain. this is like derailing a train and because their body/brain is not aware or used to this type of attack it goes into shock for a short time which opens up your chance to attack again or retreat fast.

April Raine

http://thedubliner.typepad.com/the_dubliner_magazine/2008/09/alternative-rea.html

Judomad

April Raine wrote: »

http://thedubliner.typepad.com/the_dubliner_magazine/2008/09/alternative-rea.html

whats that for april??

April Raine

Judomad wrote: »

whats that for april??

It is another side of acupuncture etc

Roper

That's a good article.

April Raine

Yes it is interesting

SorGan

good article remind me to never go see a chiropractor

Baggio...

Very interesting indeed.

DeVore

I have had both chiropractic and accupuncture (for differing reasons). Chiro certainly gives me shoulder pain relief, and fairly instantaneously. Its not a cure and progressively I'm shying away from it in favour of just a damned good strong massage.

Accupuncture is a completely new thing for me. Never had it before, never wanted it. However, if you read the "my really small adventure" in my sig, you will see that I have travelled a good bit talking to eastern physicians about eastern medicine etc, so I have done my homework but still, accupucture was never in my personal game plan before going to a sports physio in The Elbow Room near stoney batter.

I'm a mathematician by trade so I like empirical evidence. I dont buy into crystals, auras, energies etc etc. I DO believe there is a lot about the body we dont yet know or understand but when you DO understand them, come back to me. Until then, I'll pass.

Now, I broke my femur, rather famously , snowboarding and have had a lot of trouble with the muscles in my legs and back and stomach. I went to this sports physio who said he uses accupuncture as part of his treatment. I wasnt mad about the idea but screw it, as long as I got deep muscle massage too, I'm happy.

So, for the past 3 weeks I've been getting accupuncture and deep massage and stretching every day. This guy is astonishing. I have been to many a sports physio in my time and in general they are all very good, professional and well trained, at least the ones I choose are
This guy is no exception, he lectured in three Spanish universities (he's spanish), is working on a masters thesis at the moment and is extremely knowledgeable about the muscle systems of the body. You know those people who from the first moment you work with them you just KNOW they are brilliant at what they do? He's one of those and very humble about it too, which is nice

After 3 weeks my leg is a million times better, plus he has balanced the muscles in my back and stomach, relieved a recurring pain in my lower leg and generally improved the tone and strength of my muscles.
That much is absolutely beyond doubt, I have more then enough passing medical knowledge plus years of experience as a sprinter to be able to know good muscle tone from bad. I had astonishing results within 24 hours.

He has clearly explained the science behind the accupucture, so I can either accept it or reject it but I can't say he hasnt presented any supporting theory of WHY it works. He's stimulating nerves and muscles right in the region he's working in, this isnt a case of "oh you know if you put one in your little toe it fixes your tummy!". He's sticking them (lightly) into various points of the muslces he wants to affect. That makes a certain amount of engineering sense to me.

What isnt clear is if I would have had the same results with just the deep massage and stretching. I am not making claims for accupucture as I only have inconclusive anecdotal evidence but what i can say is that the combination has worked impressively for me for my condition and it comes recommended and performed by someone who is clearly NOT a quack or a "spiritual healer". This guy is hands on and very much "invasive" in a sense!!


DeV.