Why is the North side of the city more run down?

JohnG18

johnnyrotten wrote: »

Terenure thats the place beside Tallaght and crumlin - I see

Terenure doesn't TOUCH Tallaght :P

Im from Tallaght and if your going to be ignorant go ahead I would just let you know, Every area has nice people and areas.

johnnyrotten

JohnG18 wrote: »

Terenure doesn't TOUCH Tallaght :P

Im from Tallaght and if your going to be ignorant go ahead I would just let you know, Every area has nice people and areas.

Agreed;)

IanCurtis

johnnyrotten wrote: »

Agreed;)

Another public embarrassment Johnny. I suggest you avoid any "region" forum until you're familiar with the various locations, rather than relying on internet maps.

Esel

Act of Union 1800.

RaverRo808

Teresas Gardens,Oliver Bond,Thomas Street,Pearse Street,Ballyfermot,Tallaght:Jobstown etc,Clondalkin:Neilstown etc,Crumlin,Drimnagh,BallyBrack,Dolphins Barn,Fatima Mansions,Inchicore Michaels Estate,parts of Walkinstown,Monkstown Farm,QuarryVale,Cherry Orchard,etc etc etc
where there are gangland shootings,mass herion,anti-social behaviour,joyriding,drug dealing etc as equal to Northside areas
Am I mistaken or are these all parts of this glorious upper class wonderland that is the Southside you talk about,what aload of sh*te

I make no dinstinction between the Northside and Southside,they are both made up of an equal amount of Working class areas,and have a small hidden away leafy overly wealthy snobby area's(Northside:CastleKnock,Malahide etc, Southside:Dalkey,Killiney etc etc)

Ian Curtis,you are just the stereotype of the paranoid silver spoon fed southside snob,the problem with Dublin North and South is not hoody weaing skangers from Tallaght or Finglas but snobby know nothing ars*holes like you who think thier post code gives them privelage,its the working class Dubs who keep this town alive,and people like you from Rathfarmham and Dalkey etc are the dregs,posh Southsiders from the South East are the most horrible,ugly nasty sub humans Ive ever encounted and Id prefer if you remain hidden away in you little fairyland out there in Dublin 18/16/4,
And Ian if you ever were to live in my old neighbourhood with that attitude you'd get a good old Northsider hiding,but then again I reckon you get that where your from too;)

Please forgive spelling mistakes,early morning and all:D

Elmo

Being from a posh area on the northside I can only imagine what its like to live on the Southside.

I was on the DART a few weeks ago when I stepped on there where 2 drugies sitting down, a man and a woman.

The woman has a posh southside accent. The man a inner city dublin accent.

I got on at Tara Street and was we left the platform the conversation from them went something like this:-

Woman: Where are we going?
Man: Howth, we can go to the beach.
Woman: Don't touch me there?
Man: Ah come ooooonnnnnn.....
Woman: Are we going to the Northside
Man: Yeah, Conolly is the next stop
Woman: I amn't going to the focking northside, I wouldn't be caught dead on the smelly focking northsided.
Man: Howth is nice, come on we'll go to Howth
Woman: Well I am getting of this focking Dort
Man: Nah! Stay
[both all over each other]
Woman: No, I am getting of now
[she stands up, as the DART arrives in the station]
Woman: This is the as far on to the smelly ****ing northside I am going.
[they get of]
Woman: Look at the ****ing state of this Train Station, the ****ing smell.

Etc Etc.

WindSock

Well my question was for the northside of the city and not so much the suburbs. I was hoping for answers other than 'full of scumbags and knackers, etc. Yeah, we know this. The whole country is full of them, including the southside. I am more interested in the state of the buildings, footpaths, parks and other amenities. For instance, I walk down part of Sheriff st everyday and there has been broken car window glass on the footpath for the last week, and mouldy old hairy dog **** thats been there for god knows how long. Have street cleaners just given up?

humberklog

Funny and all as the thread developed surely most of the Northside V. Southside cultural differences are catered for on other threads? The O.P had a real and interesting point regarding the city that could have developed into further thought and reflection on the historical and cultural evolution of the city and the repercutions that has had on the present day's asthetics .

Bluetonic

IanCurtis wrote: »

Not too good on the oul geography I see.

Hardly Michael Palin yourself.

IanCurtis wrote: »

Oh no, the Northsiders have inadvertently proved my point by including a shot of the Ulster Bank at George's Dock in one of them....dear oh dear

Must try harder!!!

You'll find that Ulster Bank is on George's Quay not Dock. George's Dock is on the north of the river.

FAIL.

Elmo

You'll find that Ulster Bank is on George's Quay not Dock. George's Dock is on the north of the river.

Ulster Bank's HQ is on the the southside just by Tara Street DART station which is also on the southside. The much more impressive building of the Customs House is on the Northside.

Speaking about the DART going to the Northside, does anyone else notice that when a DART breaks down in Pearse Street all DARTs going north are effected but if a DART breaks down in Conolly station the DARTs going north go back south keeping the southside going. Just a thought.

The O.P had a real and interesting point regarding the city that could have developed into further thought and reflection on the historical and cultural evolution of the city and the repercutions that has had on the present day's asthetics .

The southside is much more built up and there are more jobs and industries on the southside of the City, hence the southside has bigger areas of depravation and wealth.

I walk down part of Sheriff st everyday and there has been broken car window glass on the footpath for the last week, and mouldy old hairy dog **** thats been there for god knows how long. Have street cleaners just given up?

Perhaps you should give the Council a ring and inform them. They service both northside and southside of the city.

The IFSC is on the Northside?? prehaps it is on both sides not really sure, but this would mean that the buildings on the northside aren't older.

WindSock

Elmo wrote: »

Perhaps you should give the Council a ring and inform them. They service both northside and southside of the city.

I could but why should I have to? If it were on the southside would it have cleaned up within a day? I don't know

The IFSC is on the Northside?? prehaps it is on both sides not really sure, but this would mean that the buildings on the northside aren't older.

Yes it is, but the Northside of the city stretches farther back than the liffeyside.

Elmo

I could but why should I have to? If it were on the southside would it have cleaned up within a day? I don't know

No you shouldn't have to but since they haven't called around to clean up the dog then it is your civic responsiblity to call them and tell them how stupid they are.

WindSock

I could, but I am interested to see how long it will take them to spot it themselves.

JohnG18

Its actually somewhat depressing to see people so up themselves to think that if your from "The NURE" or "The KNOCK" that you are some-how more important or better then people who live in "Bad" Areas.

bugler

esel wrote: »

Act of Union 1800.

This has been blamed as the source of the decline of the Mountjoy Square area in discussions on the property pin. By robbing Dublin of its Parliament and the associated prestige, the area was doomed to decline. I haven't heard quite how the flight of parliamentarians and a merchant class automatically meant a descent to slum status so if anyone has a theory please forward it. I mean, surely some wealthy people who would like to live in a large redbrick were left behind? How were these houses condemned to be owned by slumlords once the upper class fled? Something else must have went wrong along the line.

Frankly, what has been allowed to happen to beautiful large houses in the likes of Phibsborough (and of course Rathmines) is a disgrace. I know there is a need for accommodation, but the cannibalism of these houses is plain ugly greed.

As for the original question...well, I suppose a few possible reasons are: lack of civic pride, lack of resources allocated, lack of any government interest in regulating the development of our society so long as it wasn't adversely affecting them personally.

Bluetonic

Elmo wrote: »

Ulster Bank's HQ is on the the southside just by Tara Street DART station which is also on the southside.

I don't think anyone was disputing that.

Anyhow the economical and social divide in Dublin is from East to West, not from North to South.

bugler

The majority of the rundown Georgians on the northside are owned by an elderly couple who bought them with a view to stopping their demolition but can no longer afford their upkeep.

Isn't this just applicable to a handful of houses on Henrietta St.? It doesn't really explain the malaise affecting many other parts of the NS.

johnnyrotten

IanCurtis wrote: »

Another public embarrassment Johnny. I suggest you avoid any "region" forum until you're familiar with the various locations, rather than relying on internet maps.

I can't figure you out. I did'nt manipulate the map in any way.
Shame you can't see the woods from the trees:D.

I'll finish my input on this thread by saying every area has its good and bad parts along with good and bad people. The Northside is no worse that the Southside.

dats_right

IanCurtis wrote: »

From rathfarnham, live in terenure. Lovely places.

If you lived on Ailesbury Rd or Vico Rd well then fair enough, but that isn't the case. I actually feel sorry for this guy, who obviously has 'a chip on his shoulder'. Rathfarnham is an okay area (like many others on both the Northside/Southside), but is really just an average area with a mixture of a few nice places and it's fair share of Council estates. I certainly wouldn't consider it prestigous or posh, the word average definitely comes to mind as whilst many parts of it may be middle-class it sure isn't Ballsbridge, Dalkey or Howth for that matter!

Whilst, Terenure is probably a step up in the world it too isn't exactly one of the most prestigous addresses in Dublin, okay it probably has fewer 'working class' and is probably considered more middle-class than Rathfarnham, it's still not exactly the high life either. I suppose it's more middle manager than CEO territory.

The Northside/Southside thing is childish and in the majority of cases just a scam by estate agents to fool people into paying more money for property. It should be remembered that there are many scumbag class, working class, middle class and upper class on both sides of the river. I suppose the snobbery thing comes with lower and upper middle class people on the southside thinking that because there three bed semi's postcode ends in an even number that that somehow equates to them being in the same class as the the people who live in 8 bed detached houses on an acre in Dalkey, Foxrock, Killiney or somesuch place.

I have heard the westside thing to try excuse areas on the southside before, but what about 'pure' southside areas like: Whitechurch, Sallynoggin, Irishtown, Ringsend, parts of Milltown/Windy Arbour/Dundrum, Mounttown, parts of Dun Laoghaire, Monkstown Farm, parts of Shankill, Ballybrack, or Loughlinstown. Not that I have anything against these areas, far from it in fact, it's just that they are conveniently forgotten about when talking about northside versus southside. Many of these areas have their fair share of problems and are inhabbited by largely working class southsiders!

GrumPy

I have lived in Donaghmede and soon to move to Ballymun. Ideally, I would like to live on the southside, it is generally nicer and for commuting reasons it's far handier for college.

In relation to the thread title, I have no idea. Would love to know a bit of history as to why it is the case.

jdivision

bugler wrote: »

Isn't this just applicable to a handful of houses on Henrietta St.? It doesn't really explain the malaise affecting many other parts of the NS.

No, they own more than a hundred houses around the northside afaik. But as previously stated, speculation by developers and complete uselessness from the city council is the main reasons why they haven't regenerated during the boom.

Elmo

It's lack of development on the Northside.

For example Ballymun's new town centre is quickly falling into being a block of flats yet again.

One of the hotels in ballymun is very badly designed and already looks worse then the flats, the owners of Days Inn are to blame. The fact that they have empty shop spaces in the new town centre and at the same time nearly 5 bookies doesn't lend itself to the idea of redevelopment of the area. I don't beleive that it is the general publics fault but the lack of insight from the leaders of the country. (Business people and Politicans).

DCU should be such a good thing for the area yet it too me seems very closed off, The Onmishopping Centre should have been built closer and the redevelopment of the area should have begun with a large DCU campus in the new town centre.

I think this happens not only in dublin or just on the northside but right across the country.

humberklog

Just to add more arsenal to the SouthsideSupremacists. Pearse Sq. was a totally run-down Georgian Sq. until about '95(I think). The houses were derelict or really shabby and the thoughtfully tarmacked square was hideous. The majority of houses are still with their long term owners(passed on through family)although on the whole there has been about 35% gentrification(non-locals with sponds, taste and a keen eye) over 16years. The majority though has occurred since the corpo redesigned the square and shaped it into a very handsome garden (although no skateboards etc.). All the esidents picked their game up and it has brightened up a rather dull end of town since. But while the surrounding social housing schemes are still lagging a little behind generally the whole area has become far more appealing and (to the OP) as a place that'd hold its own for grubbyness with any northside central area of deprivation in the past it has pulled itself up. I use this example as the evolution has been time tested(app.12years).

IanCurtis

Bluetonic wrote: »

Hardly Michael Palin yourself.


You'll find that Ulster Bank is on George's Quay not Dock. George's Dock is on the north of the river.

FAIL.

You haven't a clue where I've travelled??!!!!

And you picked me up on a mistake :rolleyes: Congrats

By the way I grew up on a council estate in D16 but I do not behave, and never have, like 99% of young people I've seen in the long periods living on the Northside, so silver spoon doesn't come into it.

Thread has moved on, but justed wanted to clarify that.

Volvoboy

Dublin is Dublin there is bad everywhere it shouldnt be sectioned by the Liffey.

As the money side of things, dont forget the Northside has the IFSC;)

Wishbone Ash

OK folks - I think 24 hours or so is enough for this thread. Otherwise we'll just be going around in circles.

If anyone can give me a valid reason to open it again I'll oblige. I would be very interested in discussing any historical reasons such as the Act of Union but unfortunately it would be very difficult to keep it on topic.

IanCurtis wrote:

Oh no, the Northsiders have inadvertently proved my point by including a shot of the Ulster Bank at George's Dock in one of them....dear oh dear

Must try harder!!!

Typical insecure Northsider

Just for the record Ian, I'm from neither side nor do I reside in either side. The pics were 'tongue in cheek' and I've plenty similar from the 'other' side.

Wishbone Ash

Back by popular demand!

TheBigLebowski

IanCurtis wrote: »

By the way I grew up on a council estate in D16 but I do not behave, and never have, like 99% of young people I've seen in the long periods living on the Northside, so silver spoon doesn't come into it.

You grew up on a council estate? Snigger, snigger...

People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones mate.

whirlwind

I won't say it much good Wishbone, but maybe worth opening the thread for. Ok I ‘am not from Dublin but have studied it. I think previous posts were close to answering the question but I hope to shed a bit more light on the issue. The effects of the Act of Union as already been detailed. The lost of status as a capital was a major psychological blow But it also hit the city hard financially. The ruling classed had supported many luxury trades. Now these people needed to be in London and Dublin suffered.
Now this hit ALL parts of the city hard. So why is the Northside seemingly more run down now? Well it a tale of two families. In the 18th century private speculators started to develop the city. Much of the north-east of Dublin within the Royal Canal was developed by the Gardiner family over a period of about one hundred years from c.1720 onwards. Streets as Gardiner, Henrietta, and Mountjoy square. On the south side of the river developers such as the Dawsons and the Fitzwilliam/Pembroke families developed estate, streets and squares such as merrion square.
Right Hon. Charles John Gardiner (Earl of Blessington, 1816) inherited the family title. He got himself involved in the 1798 rebellion movement, on the British side, with disastrous result for him and his family. With his stewardship the fortunes of the Gardiner family declined with the final collapse in 1848. The most profitable use of their property was tenementation. Meanwhile on the other side of the city Fitzwilliam/Pembroke continued to secure their estate. In fact to this day they still own large tracts of south Dublin and Wicklow.
This downward spiral spread to other areas of the Northside and due to some aforementioned reasons including lack of civil pride and investment the situation worsened and continued to this day. The southside also experienced tenementation but the fact that this was more gradual and not as dramatic as the collapse of the Gardiner estate meant that it was controlled better.
Now the Streets that were developed and owned by these developers have seperate fates. Lesson street is well kept, gardiner street his not. Merrion square is posh, Mountjoy square is not.
Perhaps an interesting antidote to those involved in the Northside v Southside debate is the tale of Lord Fitzgerald wife. When moving from the Northside to their new mansion (Leinster house) in the then unfashionable Southside, she feared what people would think of her and her husband living on the Southside. To which her husband replied that once people seen them living in the splendour of Leinster house on the Southside they would move to the southside in their droves, Indeed.

Wishbone Ash

whirlwind wrote: »

Perhaps an interesting antidote to those involved in the Northside v Southside debate is the tale of Lord Fitzgerald wife. When moving from the Northside to their new mansion (Leinster house) in the then unfashionable Southside, she feared what people would think of her and her husband living on the Southside. To which her husband replied that once people seen them living in the splendour of Leinster house on the Southside they would move to the southside in their droves, Indeed.

The famous "Where I go, people will follow" comment (or something similar).

It's was indeed incredible when one considers that much of the land between what is now Merrion Square and westwards towards Grafton Street was a swampy marshland.