Why is the North side of the city more run down?

jdivision

bugler wrote: »

Isn't this just applicable to a handful of houses on Henrietta St.? It doesn't really explain the malaise affecting many other parts of the NS.

No, they own more than a hundred houses around the northside afaik. But as previously stated, speculation by developers and complete uselessness from the city council is the main reasons why they haven't regenerated during the boom.

Elmo

It's lack of development on the Northside.

For example Ballymun's new town centre is quickly falling into being a block of flats yet again.

One of the hotels in ballymun is very badly designed and already looks worse then the flats, the owners of Days Inn are to blame. The fact that they have empty shop spaces in the new town centre and at the same time nearly 5 bookies doesn't lend itself to the idea of redevelopment of the area. I don't beleive that it is the general publics fault but the lack of insight from the leaders of the country. (Business people and Politicans).

DCU should be such a good thing for the area yet it too me seems very closed off, The Onmishopping Centre should have been built closer and the redevelopment of the area should have begun with a large DCU campus in the new town centre.

I think this happens not only in dublin or just on the northside but right across the country.

humberklog

Just to add more arsenal to the SouthsideSupremacists. Pearse Sq. was a totally run-down Georgian Sq. until about '95(I think). The houses were derelict or really shabby and the thoughtfully tarmacked square was hideous. The majority of houses are still with their long term owners(passed on through family)although on the whole there has been about 35% gentrification(non-locals with sponds, taste and a keen eye) over 16years. The majority though has occurred since the corpo redesigned the square and shaped it into a very handsome garden (although no skateboards etc.). All the esidents picked their game up and it has brightened up a rather dull end of town since. But while the surrounding social housing schemes are still lagging a little behind generally the whole area has become far more appealing and (to the OP) as a place that'd hold its own for grubbyness with any northside central area of deprivation in the past it has pulled itself up. I use this example as the evolution has been time tested(app.12years).

IanCurtis

Bluetonic wrote: »

Hardly Michael Palin yourself.


You'll find that Ulster Bank is on George's Quay not Dock. George's Dock is on the north of the river.

FAIL.

You haven't a clue where I've travelled??!!!!

And you picked me up on a mistake :rolleyes: Congrats

By the way I grew up on a council estate in D16 but I do not behave, and never have, like 99% of young people I've seen in the long periods living on the Northside, so silver spoon doesn't come into it.

Thread has moved on, but justed wanted to clarify that.

Volvoboy

Dublin is Dublin there is bad everywhere it shouldnt be sectioned by the Liffey.

As the money side of things, dont forget the Northside has the IFSC;)

Wishbone Ash

OK folks - I think 24 hours or so is enough for this thread. Otherwise we'll just be going around in circles.

If anyone can give me a valid reason to open it again I'll oblige. I would be very interested in discussing any historical reasons such as the Act of Union but unfortunately it would be very difficult to keep it on topic.

IanCurtis wrote:

Oh no, the Northsiders have inadvertently proved my point by including a shot of the Ulster Bank at George's Dock in one of them....dear oh dear

Must try harder!!!

Typical insecure Northsider

Just for the record Ian, I'm from neither side nor do I reside in either side. The pics were 'tongue in cheek' and I've plenty similar from the 'other' side.

Wishbone Ash

Back by popular demand!

TheBigLebowski

IanCurtis wrote: »

By the way I grew up on a council estate in D16 but I do not behave, and never have, like 99% of young people I've seen in the long periods living on the Northside, so silver spoon doesn't come into it.

You grew up on a council estate? Snigger, snigger...

People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones mate.

whirlwind

I won't say it much good Wishbone, but maybe worth opening the thread for. Ok I ‘am not from Dublin but have studied it. I think previous posts were close to answering the question but I hope to shed a bit more light on the issue. The effects of the Act of Union as already been detailed. The lost of status as a capital was a major psychological blow But it also hit the city hard financially. The ruling classed had supported many luxury trades. Now these people needed to be in London and Dublin suffered.
Now this hit ALL parts of the city hard. So why is the Northside seemingly more run down now? Well it a tale of two families. In the 18th century private speculators started to develop the city. Much of the north-east of Dublin within the Royal Canal was developed by the Gardiner family over a period of about one hundred years from c.1720 onwards. Streets as Gardiner, Henrietta, and Mountjoy square. On the south side of the river developers such as the Dawsons and the Fitzwilliam/Pembroke families developed estate, streets and squares such as merrion square.
Right Hon. Charles John Gardiner (Earl of Blessington, 1816) inherited the family title. He got himself involved in the 1798 rebellion movement, on the British side, with disastrous result for him and his family. With his stewardship the fortunes of the Gardiner family declined with the final collapse in 1848. The most profitable use of their property was tenementation. Meanwhile on the other side of the city Fitzwilliam/Pembroke continued to secure their estate. In fact to this day they still own large tracts of south Dublin and Wicklow.
This downward spiral spread to other areas of the Northside and due to some aforementioned reasons including lack of civil pride and investment the situation worsened and continued to this day. The southside also experienced tenementation but the fact that this was more gradual and not as dramatic as the collapse of the Gardiner estate meant that it was controlled better.
Now the Streets that were developed and owned by these developers have seperate fates. Lesson street is well kept, gardiner street his not. Merrion square is posh, Mountjoy square is not.
Perhaps an interesting antidote to those involved in the Northside v Southside debate is the tale of Lord Fitzgerald wife. When moving from the Northside to their new mansion (Leinster house) in the then unfashionable Southside, she feared what people would think of her and her husband living on the Southside. To which her husband replied that once people seen them living in the splendour of Leinster house on the Southside they would move to the southside in their droves, Indeed.

Wishbone Ash

whirlwind wrote: »

Perhaps an interesting antidote to those involved in the Northside v Southside debate is the tale of Lord Fitzgerald wife. When moving from the Northside to their new mansion (Leinster house) in the then unfashionable Southside, she feared what people would think of her and her husband living on the Southside. To which her husband replied that once people seen them living in the splendour of Leinster house on the Southside they would move to the southside in their droves, Indeed.

The famous "Where I go, people will follow" comment (or something similar).

It's was indeed incredible when one considers that much of the land between what is now Merrion Square and westwards towards Grafton Street was a swampy marshland.

Esel

dats_right wrote: »

...I suppose the snobbery thing comes with lower and upper middle class people on the southside thinking that because there three bed semi's postcode ends in an even number ...

So, O'Deveney Gardens, D8 are on the southside now?

RaverRo808

Just let you know mate O'Devaney is in Dublin 7 postcode
area,your probably thinking of Parkgate Street which is round corner which is Northside but Dublin 8;)

Esel

RaverRo808 wrote: »

Just let you know mate O'Devaney is in Dublin 7 postcode
area,your probably thinking of Parkgate Street which is round corner which is Northside but Dublin 8;)

Damn! But you got my point - there is an even-numbered postcode on the northside.

faceman

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

Always happy to oblige with a sample of images of the plush southside!

Do you know what would have been really cool? If in one of those pics, there was grafitti on the wall that said "Who watches the watchmen?"

Wishbone Ash

esel wrote: »

Damn! But you got my point - there is an even-numbered postcode on the northside.

Indeed - Mrs McAleese and her family reside in Dublin 8.

johnnyrotten

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

Indeed - Mrs McAleese and her family reside in Dublin 8.

Yes on the northside, along with the Zoo, Airport, GPO, Main street, IFSC, Point ( Now O2 arena ) ,Abbey Theatre , National Museum, Botanic Gardens, Largest Urban Park in Europe i.e. Phoenix Park, Croke Park.... The list goes on and on.

Wishbone Ash

johnnyrotten wrote: »

Yes on the northside, along with the Zoo, Airport, GPO, Main street, IFSC, Point ( Now O2 arena ) ,Abbey Theatre , National Museum, Botanic Gardens, Largest Urban Park in Europe i.e. Phoenix Park, Croke Park.... The list goes on and on.

I think you've missed the point johnny!

johnnyrotten

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

I think you've missed the point johnny!

No, I listed the Point:p

projectmayhem

johnnyrotten wrote: »

Yes on the northside, along with the Zoo, Airport, GPO, Main street, IFSC, Point ( Now O2 arena ) ,Abbey Theatre , National Museum, Botanic Gardens, Largest Urban Park in Europe i.e. Phoenix Park, Croke Park.... The list goes on and on.

Aren't the IFSC and 02 Arena on the southside?

Also, as someone who's both a southsider and a northsider, I think these debates are hilarious. The northside is now trying to be the southside with more "up market" residential areas popping up (padded by scum) and southsiders in fancy areas acting as if they're knackers because it's cool to be oppressed, man.

Either way, both sides of the city are filled with proverbial kips and nice areas, it just so happens that the southside has more "nice" areas and amenities like the DART etc.

Wishbone Ash

OK lads - back on topic or I'll have to close it again!

r3nu4l

projectmayhem wrote: »

Aren't the IFSC and 02 Arena on the southside?

Well the IFSC is definitely on the NorthSide, no idea about the O2 arena. Also regarding dilapidation, Once you get to Thomas Street or even the end of South Georges Street on the Southside that part of the city begins to decline.

Generally speaking though, yes, the Northside does seem to suffer from more neglect.

projectmayhem

r3nu4l wrote: »

Well the IFSC is definitely on the NorthSide, no idea about the O2 arena. Also regarding dilapidation, Once you get to Thomas Street or even the end of South Georges Street on the Southside that part of the city begins to decline.

Generally speaking though, yes, the Northside does seem to suffer from more neglect.

Oh you're right, I'm thinking of that bridge the wrong way around

Nevyn

Busniesses and concerned residents/owners are the ones who pester the council into keeping up the standards. It takes a concerted effort to get them to bother and yes with the luas and the developement of several streest there had been new life breathed into parts of the northside of the city but not as much.

I reckon it has to do with the lack of bus routes/ corridors in and around the northside of the city. The red luas works killed of a lot of business on abby st ect which was unfortunate.

A lot of people will not travel outside of the O'Connell st and Grafton street corridor which I think is daft.

Esel

projectmayhem wrote: »

....the southside has more "nice" areas and amenities like the DART etc.

Does 'your' DART turn around at Tara St (that salubrious southside station) then?

Wishbone Ash

Thaedydal wrote: »

Busniesses and concerned residents/owners are the ones who pester the council into keeping up the standards

It's a bit of a viscious circle.

Regardless of whether it north or south, people in 'nice' areas tend to vote, lobby their elected representatives, know how to get their point across and therefore get things done.

People in 'neglected' areas tend to vote in very low numbers and generally not bother utilising their elected representatives. The elected representatives then naturally don't bother concentrating much energy in areas where they have few votes.

humberklog

More people in neglected north inner city areas do appear to neglect their area more though. Take Dominick St. flats for e.g. I've seen more mattresses flung onto the street(then burnt or worse...left burning), shopping trolleys strewn(there's cash to be had there for a nipper), soiled nappies flung onto the path and all this only over this summer months. The stuff is cleared away quite quickly by the corpo but alas the perpetrators are persistant.
All young skangers litter regardless of city (or country) but the objects left strewn on some of the grubbiest of north inner city areas are adult's belongings. i don't really wanna be singling out certain areas (but i will). Lower Sheriffer and Lwr and Upr Dominick st. There are others too. Whereas I've noticed over the last few years much less in what were neglected areas on the southside: The Bond and Charlemont. Really all on the southside have picked up the game in the last 10years. Not so on the northside though.
I'm not bringing in junkies or wife beaters (social) into it just (enviromental) cleanliness and general respect for the area. It's better all round now on both sides of Liffey and there have been success stories too on the northside; Seville Pl., Nth Strand, Smithfield/Kings St. But there does still seam to be a hardcore of people with a lack of respect for their own environs on the northside.

karengray

you havnt got a clue what your talking about, every area has their good and bad sides, you can't just pick the northside because you live on the south.

_blank_

karengray wrote: »

you havnt got a clue what your talking about, every area has their good and bad sides, you can't just pick the northside because you live on the south.

Last post before your one was in 2008.

I reckon the person who made the comments likely doesn't really care anymore.

Closing